My Chinese Turbo Experience.
10-21-2014, 01:01 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
My Chinese Turbo Experience.
My pickup is early 91 non intercooled. I bought a Chinese-No Name hx35 turbo off ebay for under 300 bucks. The ebay seller has sold roughly 60+ of these with no problem. My experience is for the money it worked for me. Pickup runs better. I was getting 23 mpg, so I am gonna run some tests, and see what happens. I do know they are not for everyone, but I won't spend a grand for a turbo, when the pickup is worth a grand. Also I am not promoting these, but for me it worked. Now let the bashing begin. Oh yeah we have all seen where big name turbo company made the inferior ***** turbo blow on the machine, so no need to post that.
10-21-2014, 02:21 PM
#2
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I thank you for posting up your experience with this type of Turbo. I myself just ruined an original Holset HX35 with an off shore rebuild kit. But I have been looking at these knock off turbos and wondering how well they would hold up.
How many miles do you have on it so far, how long have you been running it, and have you done any pulling with it?
How many miles do you have on it so far, how long have you been running it, and have you done any pulling with it?
10-21-2014, 02:49 PM
#3
Registered User
I know some of them may be good, I just have a hard time trusting it on a very expensive engine.
On a side note my oldest son bought one for his *cough* Audi as it was smoking. He kept having problems with it and finally sold it to my youngest son. #2 son put a Borg Warner turbo on it and all the problems went away. So I don't know.
I'd probably chance one on a junkyard 318 or 360 for a fun car but I'd still be leery of putting one on a higher dollar engine.
On a side note my oldest son bought one for his *cough* Audi as it was smoking. He kept having problems with it and finally sold it to my youngest son. #2 son put a Borg Warner turbo on it and all the problems went away. So I don't know.
I'd probably chance one on a junkyard 318 or 360 for a fun car but I'd still be leery of putting one on a higher dollar engine.
10-21-2014, 03:41 PM
#4
Registered User
Considering how far we are falling behind in the global economy, we need to stop nation bashing and examine new sources based on their own merits rather than our personal bigotry. ! HE SAID WHAT??? Think about it for a minute. China has produced some pretty amazing stuff considering their late start into the industrial revolution. But like any company, they don't produce instant perfection. It takes time to "fix your mistakes" and move on. Would I run right out and buy one of these China turbos? Probably not. Why? Because you can buy a reparable Holset or whom ever for about the same price and fix it. This situation won't last for ever though. But by then, the Chinese companies will have improved their manufacturing techniques and they will be just as good. Are they total junk now? I don't believe so. Like I said, with time they will improve and they have been making these for quite a while now. So they are better than when they first started hitting our shores.
10-21-2014, 05:13 PM
#5
Administrator
I haunt the turbo forums, and have to say, the Chinese turbos have come a long way. Now, no way I am putting one on my truck, but if I had a truck that was on its last legs, or worth virtually nothing, yea, I would probably risk it.
From the posts over there, seems like blowing them out with brake cleaner and air thru the oiling passage to make sure there are no chips, etc. left seems to be a good idea though.
From the posts over there, seems like blowing them out with brake cleaner and air thru the oiling passage to make sure there are no chips, etc. left seems to be a good idea though.
10-21-2014, 05:57 PM
#6
Registered User
10-22-2014, 10:53 AM
#7
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I would do that with any turbo or any other engine part for that mater. Yes I have found burs ready to let go in Holset turbos.
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10-22-2014, 03:35 PM
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Does a lot of manufactured Chinese stuff stink ? Yeah it does...
Why ? Because we're the dumbarses that ask for it. We (our suppliers) order cheap stuff, because the american public wants cheap stuff. It's OUR.... meaning mine, yours and anyone else who shops based upon cost and actually purchases "off shore" crapola, responsibility for this happening.
When we decide to buy American, German, and any other countries manufacturer that makes good stuff.... then the Chinese will have to either put up, and make better product, or go away.. Unfortunately, trying to get the american public to "think alike" is less likely to happen than me hitting the lottery for $500M ....
I have German pliers that I bought of Amazon..... and they're sweet....
Why ? Because we're the dumbarses that ask for it. We (our suppliers) order cheap stuff, because the american public wants cheap stuff. It's OUR.... meaning mine, yours and anyone else who shops based upon cost and actually purchases "off shore" crapola, responsibility for this happening.
When we decide to buy American, German, and any other countries manufacturer that makes good stuff.... then the Chinese will have to either put up, and make better product, or go away.. Unfortunately, trying to get the american public to "think alike" is less likely to happen than me hitting the lottery for $500M ....
I have German pliers that I bought of Amazon..... and they're sweet....
10-22-2014, 04:38 PM
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Why ? Because we're the dumbarses that ask for it. We (our suppliers) order cheap stuff, because the american public wants cheap stuff. It's OUR.... meaning mine, yours and anyone else who shops based upon cost and actually purchases "off shore" crapola, responsibility for this happening.
When we decide to buy American, German, and any other countries manufacturer that makes good stuff.... then the Chinese will have to either put up, and make better product, or go away..
10-22-2014, 05:09 PM
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I did some consulting about 10 years ago for a couple of these companies. It's been a while so the turbos might have evolved and they might have gotten some of the manufacturing kinks worked out. But here's my take for what it's worth.
The reps were always great and customer service that I saw was good for when they blew up. The turbos were typically either imitation/knock-offs made by reverse engineering a name brand turbo or some were actually made using the exact specs and occasionally even the retired old tooling from the Garrett spec turbos after they'd changed models.
Here are some of the problems (from back then at least). Manufacturing tolerances weren't as exact in the Chinese factories as they were in the brand name factories. Finishings and castings weren't made as precisely either. So although "the same" on paper, even if made with the same tooling, the quality control, failure rate, and performance never seemed to measure up. It's the difference of having a "master carpenter" mitre and install your crown molding in your house, and having his apprentice do the task for instance. (You can see the difference in the joinings.)
Things like seals were far more likely to blow. O-rings, and seals were frequently cheaped out on and were a big source of failure. Just like a lot of re-manned alternators, where you can have 3 go bad in a month, replaced for free, and then one finally last, it was not uncommon back then for them to have to ship me 3 to test because 2 would "pop" on the first test run.
The headache of parts mess, and oil blowing through intercoolers on the "test mules" was a giant pain in the *** to deal with. End users were pretty unimpressed by free replacement turbos after having to clean up blown pieces of turbo wheels or oil sprays out of their cars (and the insides of their intercoolers).
Mistakes like installing threads on both mating surfaces of manifolds and turbo flanges for instance made it impossible to seal until one was drilled out. Mild warping of mating surfaces had to be milled or extra thick gaskets used, even had a batch of "Mitsubishi T25" turbos not fit anything because the housings were "Garrett T25's" and the manufacturing company had assumed that all "T25's" were the same and it was just two different brands.
Granted things might have come a long way since then, but quality control and the ability to manufacture exactly to spec/tolerance is a huge deal with turbos, and it seems to pan out the same way that cheap knock-offs always do with goods. A trained eye can frequently spot the lower quality suit/leather good/watch/or car part as corners are cut in terms of materials, workmanship, or skill level of the craftsman making the good and it comes out in the end product.
Personally, I wouldn't risk my diesel engine, or the time involved to re-do the work to the knock-off. Just my $0/02 and it has been over a decade since I saw the parts first hand when they were in their first few generations of manufacturing them.
The reps were always great and customer service that I saw was good for when they blew up. The turbos were typically either imitation/knock-offs made by reverse engineering a name brand turbo or some were actually made using the exact specs and occasionally even the retired old tooling from the Garrett spec turbos after they'd changed models.
Here are some of the problems (from back then at least). Manufacturing tolerances weren't as exact in the Chinese factories as they were in the brand name factories. Finishings and castings weren't made as precisely either. So although "the same" on paper, even if made with the same tooling, the quality control, failure rate, and performance never seemed to measure up. It's the difference of having a "master carpenter" mitre and install your crown molding in your house, and having his apprentice do the task for instance. (You can see the difference in the joinings.)
Things like seals were far more likely to blow. O-rings, and seals were frequently cheaped out on and were a big source of failure. Just like a lot of re-manned alternators, where you can have 3 go bad in a month, replaced for free, and then one finally last, it was not uncommon back then for them to have to ship me 3 to test because 2 would "pop" on the first test run.
The headache of parts mess, and oil blowing through intercoolers on the "test mules" was a giant pain in the *** to deal with. End users were pretty unimpressed by free replacement turbos after having to clean up blown pieces of turbo wheels or oil sprays out of their cars (and the insides of their intercoolers).
Mistakes like installing threads on both mating surfaces of manifolds and turbo flanges for instance made it impossible to seal until one was drilled out. Mild warping of mating surfaces had to be milled or extra thick gaskets used, even had a batch of "Mitsubishi T25" turbos not fit anything because the housings were "Garrett T25's" and the manufacturing company had assumed that all "T25's" were the same and it was just two different brands.
Granted things might have come a long way since then, but quality control and the ability to manufacture exactly to spec/tolerance is a huge deal with turbos, and it seems to pan out the same way that cheap knock-offs always do with goods. A trained eye can frequently spot the lower quality suit/leather good/watch/or car part as corners are cut in terms of materials, workmanship, or skill level of the craftsman making the good and it comes out in the end product.
Personally, I wouldn't risk my diesel engine, or the time involved to re-do the work to the knock-off. Just my $0/02 and it has been over a decade since I saw the parts first hand when they were in their first few generations of manufacturing them.
10-22-2014, 06:00 PM
#11
Administrator
There may be some German stuff that is good, but I deal with it every day, and what I have found is the Germans are legends in their own minds.
All German stuff is NOT world class........even third world class for that matter.
God forbid you call them on it either......... Had a German Engineer describe this part as "Hard", I asked how hard is hard? He said hard hard.
I whipped it on the Rockwell tester in front of him and 25 seconds later said, "yep, 43Rc is hard.........in Germany"
About started WW3 with that comment.
All German stuff is NOT world class........even third world class for that matter.
God forbid you call them on it either......... Had a German Engineer describe this part as "Hard", I asked how hard is hard? He said hard hard.
I whipped it on the Rockwell tester in front of him and 25 seconds later said, "yep, 43Rc is hard.........in Germany"
About started WW3 with that comment.
10-22-2014, 08:40 PM
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There may be some German stuff that is good, but I deal with it every day, and what I have found is the Germans are legends in their own minds.
All German stuff is NOT world class........even third world class for that matter.
God forbid you call them on it either......... Had a German Engineer describe this part as "Hard", I asked how hard is hard? He said hard hard.
I whipped it on the Rockwell tester in front of him and 25 seconds later said, "yep, 43Rc is hard.........in Germany"
About started WW3 with that comment.
All German stuff is NOT world class........even third world class for that matter.
God forbid you call them on it either......... Had a German Engineer describe this part as "Hard", I asked how hard is hard? He said hard hard.
I whipped it on the Rockwell tester in front of him and 25 seconds later said, "yep, 43Rc is hard.........in Germany"
About started WW3 with that comment.
10-22-2014, 09:52 PM
#14
Registered User
Does a lot of manufactured Chinese stuff stink ? Yeah it does...
Why ? Because we're the dumbarses that ask for it. We (our suppliers) order cheap stuff, because the american public wants cheap stuff. It's OUR.... meaning mine, yours and anyone else who shops based upon cost and actually purchases "off shore" crapola, responsibility for this happening.
When we decide to buy American, German, and any other countries manufacturer that makes good stuff.... then the Chinese will have to either put up, and make better product, or go away.. Unfortunately, trying to get the american public to "think alike" is less likely to happen than me hitting the lottery for $500M ....
I have German pliers that I bought of Amazon..... and they're sweet....
Why ? Because we're the dumbarses that ask for it. We (our suppliers) order cheap stuff, because the american public wants cheap stuff. It's OUR.... meaning mine, yours and anyone else who shops based upon cost and actually purchases "off shore" crapola, responsibility for this happening.
When we decide to buy American, German, and any other countries manufacturer that makes good stuff.... then the Chinese will have to either put up, and make better product, or go away.. Unfortunately, trying to get the american public to "think alike" is less likely to happen than me hitting the lottery for $500M ....
I have German pliers that I bought of Amazon..... and they're sweet....
