Pig

I noticed how it says "recommended for all Chrysler transmissions," so I e-mailed ExxonMobil and received the following responses:

I would not use this product in a transmission that is still under warranty (stick with Mopar ATF+4), but for about $1 more per quart, its an excellent fluid for those who are out-of-warranty.

big jimmy

Why does'nt it meet the Honda z-1 requirement? Or exceed all the Chrysler specs?
I know this sounds cantankerous, but when a synthetic comes out and only "meets or exceeds", I am underwhelmed. I am not arguing that the Mobil 1 is not a good product though- obviously it is.
My aim is more to educate myself...

Big Jimmy

P.J

Jimmy, I'm suprised to read that you are "underwhelmed" LOL

Hey, I would use it. I paid $7.00 a Qt. for the +4 at the swindlership a few months back, I vowed to never buy another single part from them after that experience.

jerky1280

As I understand it, Chrysler will only license ChryslerATF+4 for our transmissions. I also think that Chrysler ATF+4 is a synthetic fluid, or at least a synthetic blend. The problem is that even if another fluid meets or exceeds Chrysler's standards, they will not license it for use in their vehicles which require ATF+4. This gives them legal maneuvering room to say you voided your warranty by using a "non-recommended" fluid, even though that fluid is as good or better than theirs. The consequence is that shmucks like me who are under warranty buy their $7/quart fluid because if there is a problem with my tranny while under warranty, I can't afford to take Chrysler to court over it.

There are other fluids that are recommended by their manufacturers for use in transmissions that require MOPAR ATF+4, such as valvoline max life:
http://www.angelfire.com/va3/jerky12...Letter_803.pdf

nitrousn

So what does the mobil 1 stuff cost per quart?

big jimmy

Thanks everyone for the feedback on my post- I may be trying the Mobil 1 in my truck soon too.

Jimmy

coalburner400

Try $195, each, for front brake rotors

I found them for $78 each but were the cheapo Mexican (warp rotors)... Napa replacements are good quality and cheaper for 2 than the *********** charged for 1. Also the thickness of the replacement is greater than OEM.

When I brought the OEMs back to Dodge they asked why I was returning them... I said that they were exorbitantly priced and everyone in line got a chuckle.

Anyway, back on topic: That's a good find. ATF +4 was a pain in my **** for a while. I'm glad that there now is an alternative.

2500WHITERAM

GOOD ADVICE...ANYONE CAN SAY THEIR PRODUCT IS APPROVED FOR ATF=4 APPLICATIONS. HECK, I CAN EDIT IN A BOTTLE AND PUT A LABEL ON IT SAYING IT MEETS THE CRITERIA. BE VERY CAREFUL, AS A DEALER, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THIS CRAP WILL AMKE YOUR WARRANTY TRANSMISSION, A CUTOMER PAY JOB...AT WILL

yamroamer

I`d be very careful about going to a dealer who cannot use spellcheck

Pig

Since Chrysler wanted the to develop a special fluid for their transmission, they, along with the additive pack company (i.e. Afton, Lubrizol, Infinieum, etc), and the blender (i.e. ExxonMobil, Shell, etc) worked together to produce a finished product that’d work in the ATF+4 application. Chrysler worked closely with the additive pack manufacturer to produce an additive pack that’ll provide the necessary anti-wear protection and friction modification for the fluid. The additive pack manufacturer will then suggest a possible base oil mix to the blender, who will then blend the final product.

The blender is not required to use a specific base oil mix. The additive pack manufacturer will of course suggest a possible mix for the fluid to meet the specifications, but what the blender ultimately uses is up to them. However, whatever they decide to use, the fluid must still be capable of meeting the performance tests for that particular fluid specification.

Upon completion of the blending, since the original “three” (OEM, add pack company, and blender) were working together to develop this fluid, the blender’s final product will be put through OEM tests to verify its performance and become “licensed” for factory and service fill in that particular application.

Here’s where it gets tricky. When Chrysler and the additive pack company work together to develop the additive package, they chose not to allow licensing of the product to other blenders. Of course, the company that originally developed the additive pack, and the company that blended the product you buy at the dealer, will have the licensed product as they were the original developers of the product. Chrysler also allowed PetroCanada to produce an ATF+4 fluid as a “licensed” product, but they may’ve been the original blender of the product, but I don’t know for sure why. But, Chrysler chose not to allow the additive manufacturer they originally worked with, to sell the additive pack “recipe” to other additive package manufacturers so other blenders can buy the additive pack and blend a similar fluid. Thus, the only licensed product would be the product you buy under the Mopar brand name, blended with an additive pack the company they worked with originally developed, and their designated blender, or the PetroCanada brand name.

However, provided that it doesn’t violate their license agreement, the additive package manufacturer or other additive pack manufacturers may produce a similar additive pack that will work in the application but of course, it cannot be certified or tested by the OEM to verify performance, as they will not license their product. This is how Amsoil, Valvoline, and Pennzoil obtained their additive packages for their multi-vehicle fluid to work in an ATF+4 application.

cville6

Whiteram,

Can you explain "this crap"? I understand the legal consequences of not using an approved product when it comes to warranty work, but..... is it crap? Is there some proprietary blend of ingredients in the DC ATF+4 product? Is DC now operating refineries to produce these special products? I guess I always thought that no matter what the label said ExxonMoble and Shell were about the only guys around the world poking holes in the ground and sucking out liquid dinosaur carcasses. Help me understand.

Pig

I thought I explained it in my previous post but I'll explain it again.

There aren't any legal consequences. Its simply a question of how much hassle you're willing to put up with, and how lucky you are. Under the (name escapes me at the moment) act, the OEM can only deny a repair claim if they can trace the fluid as the cause of the failure.

But imagine the possible senario:

Truck transmission dies under warranty, towed to the dealer. Smart guys at DC somehow found out you used something other than ATF+4 OEM product. DC says not our problem as fluid didn't meet spec so we aren't covering it. You say nonsense, and call ExxonMobil. ExxonMobil comes out, pulls a sample, and says not our problem, DC design problem with transmission. You're stuck in the middle, even though you're right. (Fluid wasn't cause of the problem). Truck is out of service for months, or you eventually take the truck to an indy shop and have the transmission fixed. Then, you take DC to court and recover the costs.

In the end, the question is whether or not its worth the trouble; to me, it just isn't.

No it isn't crap. The blender will purchase an additive pack that'll be equivalent to ATF+4 from Lubrizol, Afton, Oronite, Infinieum, etc and blend with their own base oils. The problem with this method of blending is that the original, actual "recipe" for the additive pack will not be disclosed. Thus, the product from the additive pack manufacturer will come "close" to the original product, but will not be the identical product as they do not have the "recipe" to produce the product. Plus, the equipment needed to test the friction modifiers used in the fluid may be proprietary to DC and its designated add pack company.

However, one of those companies were the ones who originally developed the additive pack for the OEM ATF+4 for DC, so they know the "recipe" behind it. As for which one it is, I don't know. I think its Lubrizol, but I can't remember for sure.

Thus, since this reverse-engineering process may be tricky, I'd stick with the reputable aftermarket blenders for ATF+4 once out-of-warranty. Larger companies such as ExxonMobil (even though their additive pack may be from the same company that Amsoil buys it from), will have more resources to do field testing on the finished product than perhaps, Amsoil or Joe Blow company. They are less likely to put out a lame product that'll ruin their reputation. That's JMHO.

Yes in a way, as they have a designated blender and additive pack manufacturer for this fluid. All OEM proprietary fluids are like that; examples include Toyota T-IV, Honda Z1, SP-III, etc.

coalburner400

Magnuson-Moss act.

No doubt that there are risks of complications here... I got a good enough deal on my truck when I purchased it in 2001, that I was pretty much expecting that I would need to purchase a new tranny... I've got 80k on the current trans and had solenoid/governor replaced at 43k.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't want another OEM tranny anyway, so I don't feel I'm risking much by using a non-licensed transmission fluid.

Same goes for the brakes and steering components.

I still have a case of ATF+4 but when that is gone, I'll be using something else

BigBlue

Boy am I glad that I don't have to run that stuff. I get to run good old +3, or dexron.

Ohio Joe

I just picked up 4 quarts of Valvoline ATF+4 at Advance Auto over the weekend for a little over $4 a quart. It wasn't just "also recommended for all Chrysler transmissions," it was strictly ATF+4 fluid. That is the first ATF+4 I have seen outside of a dealership.