sqrl$$

Thinking about picking up a used tandem. Looking for something under $20k. I currently own a swimming pool company and have hiring out my digging and hauling and am toying with buying my own stuff to do it myself. I am not sure what to look for as far as what brand truck, motor, rear suspension and tranny. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will be using the truck for about 60% hauling equipment and %40 hauling dirt/rock if that helps.

chaikwa

My personal opinion is that dirt work and air ride suspensions don't play well together. Blow out a bag while you're dumping and the truck will be on it's side.

I'd be looking for something with a Hendrickson walking beam suspension because that's all I've ever had. I know Volvo has some kind of spring/walking beam arrangement that people speak highly of, but I have no first hand knowledge about it.

Mack has always had the Camel back suspensions that seem to hold up pretty good. They're like a walking beam, but the spring pack acts as the beam.

No matter what truck I was buying, I've always insisted on at least 44,000 pound rears and a 14,000 pound front. I don't like 'light'. Get it too light and you'll be forever replacing king pins, springs, bushings, drive shafts... you name it and it will break. My motto; "what will do a lot, will do a little"!

I've always had double frames as well. I've seen people have good luck with what I call 'fish-plated' frames, where the outer frame rail doesn't encompass the lower flange of the inner rail. I guess this is ok, but I prefer a full double frame. Single frames twist too much and eventually crack, then break. I've re-framed trucks for people that insisted they could do dirt work with a single framed truck.

I'd also look for something with a small motor in it, 300 HP or less. That way, you can throw almost anyone in the truck and not worry too much about them twisting drive shafts off or snapping axle shafts!

Tranny's... I don't know. If I was driving it myself, I prefer an 8 speed with a double low hole, but that may befuddle a newer or occasional driver. Again, Mack has pretty bullet proof 5 and 6 speed tranny's.

I guess if I was putting drivers in this thing, I'd be looking for an R or DM model Mack, probably in the mid to late 80's, early 90's. 237 or 300 Mack motor with 20k front and 44k rears or better. 6 speed low hole. No A/C... keep it simple!

It's a buyers market right now I would think, so you should be able to find something pretty reasonable with decent spec's.

I'm sure some other guys will speak up here with other ideas too. There's a lot of experience around these parts!

chaikwa.

sqrl$$

Been thinking about the R model Macks, everyone says they are about as tough as they come. I will be to only one operating it and I am easy on my equipment. Any insight into the Ford L9000's? I see them regularly for $10-15k I am sure the lower price means less truck, just wanting to be a little more educated. I will realistically be using this truck only about once a week so I don't need a high dollar rig.

rich

the older the truck the harder it is to find parts. get something mid 90's. the air bag with spring suspension is ok but anything with just airbags tends to walk around. we run 9 speeds and they get us anywhere. i will never own any truck with a hp less then 350 better to have the extra power then not and need it. good luck on finding one in descent shape under 20k. look in truckpaper.com best place to look for one. raise the bed and shut the truck off and check the hydraluic system for any leaks or bleed off also check the cylinder for leaks mite even load it and dump with it to make sure everything is working right

Totallyrad

Good info above. I don't like the air bag setups, they're not as stable while dumping and they have more wheel hop in poor traction situations. Find a purpose built truck, stay away from over-the-road trucks that have been converted to dumps. They're usually geared to high.

Field_boss_cb

I recommend a 14 liter or larger engine. Horsepower is good at 300HP or more.
The torque of the bigger engines is more important than horsepower for getting started with a heavy load. The Mack transmissions are very strong, and also the 8LL transmissions. Taking off with a heavy load is where the Cat 3406 shines, being it is close to 15 liter.

pind

For those anti-airbag gurus.

Most somewhat modern units have auto dump for the bags. As soon as you trip the gate, the bags drop, leaving you with "solid" suspension. The truck upfitters were somewhat forced to go that way, because those of us too dumb to drop the suspension, inevitably ended up on our heads.

Western Star and Mack are hard to beat for vocational trucks in your application. Both are built strong for off-highway use, and although neither are overly comfortable, or pretty, they get the job done right.

In the more modern dump trucks, I have seen a lot of kenworths with 20k lb fronts, 50k rears, air ride, 18 speeds, and 565 ISX cummins. I have never figured out exactly what kind of gravel they are hauling with those, but they never want for power or gears.

Take the time to figure out purchase price, and also after purchase shock, such as basic maintenance costs, fuel costs, etc. Then buy accordingly.

03 ant a hemi

I ran a 96 MAC, 98 Mac and a 07 M2 Freightliner. All had 18 speed trannys and all had air suspension. Both the Macs were fuel efficient, had enough power for hauling their load.
All three trucks sucked hauling a pup down the highway when loaded. but they would get their.
They were all 350 or so HP,
Dump your airbags before you dump your load. Things will be fine.

When you go to look at these trucks, check the hydraulics as already mentioned. Check the rear pivots for cracks and wear. Also check the frame and other structural components for cracks. Check the PTO for any leaks.

chaikwa

Yes, their windshield wipers are backwards! Seriously tho, it should do you fine for what you're going to be using it for. I had a single axle L9000 with the Brazilian Cummins thing in it. It was a good little truck that couldn't get out of its' own way but ran forever.

Yes, I agree. He's going to be driving this himself, so big HP is fine. He'll twist off a driveshaft or explode an axle, pay for it himself and learn from it. A hired driver doesn't always care about such things except for the fact that they can hear really cool noises when it happens. BT,DT!

How much 'modern' do you think he'll get for 20 grand? I've operated dump trucks with air ride and it's like driving a boat.

I would have loved to have a Western Star when I was running trucks. I had Autocars, 20 fronts, 56 rears with 20k pushers, 8 speed double low holes and 400 Cummins, no A/C. On average, we were hauling 130,000 pounds of bank run gravel about 5 miles. Those trucks would handle it fine, but a nice Western Star sure would have made the days more comfortable!

chaikwa.

DmaxEter

Like stated before, DUMP THE AIR BAGS BEFORE DUMPING THE TRAILER! If the tractor is not plumbed to dump when the tail gate is released, there is a switch in the dash to do it! Use it and the bag setup is not too bad.

Personaly, Mack is the only way to go for your application in my opinion. R model parts are not hard to find and anything you want for one is still in production for the most part. Either that or there is enough old stock to keep you supplied for at least your life time!

Cant beat a CL mack for a heavy truck with a little more modern feel and comfort than an R model. This one has a wet kit and one of the last of the best Mack engines! Its also 100% Mack, Engine, trans, and rears.

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com...CL713-94492599

rich

be ready to spend money on front tires with the mack unless they have changed it they seem to eat only one tire really bad or at least every tandem mack i have been around

Russ Roth

My brother has driven tandem drive Macks since 1972 and has never had an issue with front tire wear. He's put over 850,000 on his current one and I'm sure he would have mentioned it. I have driven part time for the same company off and on since '73. I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say I have driven in excess of a hundred different Macks, all tandems or 4 axle tags and never seen that problem either. The company probably is running over 250 tractors and very few are not Macks. I'm sure I would have heard something if there was some type of issue with that.

pind

Well, considering that a guy I work for just picked up two trucks, a 96 freightliner, and a 94 kenworth, for 16k CDN each... you might get reasonably modern.

Seriously enough, in this neck of the planet, most of the airbag trucks had auto-dump valves as far back as 88-89 model years. Before, that, you had to flip the switch yourself.

chaikwa

Ok, that's a little different than what I was thinking. When I hear 'modern', I'm thinking in terms of 2002 and newer.

Where I'm from, (New England), I don't think anyone ever considered using air ride on a straight truck dump application until the late 90's. I could be wrong, but I never saw it around there until about that time frame.

chaikwa.

hyperrcng

First thing to do is look around and see what other hauling companies are using, tandems, tri's, quad's. Main reason falls to your state weight laws.

Most tandems will have a 52,000 lb gross unless it is spec'd heavier.

Chalmers, Hendrickson, or Camel back(Mack) is all good rear suspension for what you are doing.

I would stay away from the spoke style hub and wedge fit wheels (dayton). Cost of maintance with those is higher as opposed to budd or uni-mount wheels.

Look at the truck dealers and truck parts houses in your area. Mack is a very good truck for what you plan but parts in your area may be difficult to get.

9 or 10 speed trans will do everything your wanting to do

Look for the common engines, C-15/3406E Cat, 60 series Detroit, N-14 Cummins, E-7 427/460 Mack

What kind of trailer do you plan on pulling your equipment on??? You will need some type of trailer connection. Pindel hitch is most common and most trailers like that have air brakes also. The truck will need to either be set up or already set up.

If you haven't already got it, class A cdl w/air brakes will be required for the combo.

I'd stay away from the old stuff. I know you want to stay in a 20k budget but you do get what you pay for. Stay with something thats newer than 15 years old. The way most of those trucks are worked, in 5 years they so wore out you will break the bank in repairs.

Mack is the preferred for what you are doing but like a Volvo, can be hard to get parts in your area.(remember to check around)