Dodge losing the Cummins - Dodge Diesel

youngbiodiesel · 11-16-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

News article from Diesel Progress:

Industry News
Fiat Mulling Iveco Engine For Dodge Ram?
November 4, 2009

Almost since it began supplying diesel engines for Dodge’s Ram pickup truck in the late 1980s, there have been near-constant rumors and reports that Cummins Inc. was about to lose the business. Through the years however, the Columbus, Ind., engine manufacturer managed to maintain its position and earn a sort of cult following among pickup truck enthusiasts and in the process, sell an average of more than 100,000 engines a year to Dodge.

With the change in Dodge’s corporate status, once again the reports are beginning to circulate that Cummins is in danger of losing the Dodge business. According to a report in the most recent issue of Stark’s Truck & Off-Highway Ledger, a business publication covering the design, manufacture and sales of light, medium and heavy-duty trucks, truck trailers, mobile farm equipment and mobile construction machinery, Fiat S.p.A., which is in control of Dodge parent Chrysler Group LLC, may discontinue sourcing engines from Cummins and is considering replacing the Cummins Turbo Diesel engine with an Iveco engine, built by a Fiat subsidiary.

The change could come as soon as the 2011 model year, according to the Stark’s report, which is attributed to a company source. Stark’s said its source indicated that Chrysler engineers are reviewing Iveco engine specifications, especially as it pertains to weight and emissions issues. A decision is expected by the end of the year, the Ledger report said.

Adding additional spice to the report is the fact that for nearly eight years, Fiat, through its Iveco and New Holland subsidiaries, was part of an engine-related joint venture with Cummins, the European Engine Alliance (EEA), As part of that alliance, companies cooperated in the development of a range of engines, including a 6.7 L diesel similar to the engine used in the Ram. The alliance ended in 2008, in part because of a strategy by Fiat to have its own Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) subsidiary be the primary engine supplier to Fiat companies.

For its part, Cummins expressed confidence that it would survive this challenge as it has all the others. “Cummins and Chrysler have a great partnership that's more than 20 years old, and we expect the partnership to remain strong,” said Cummins in a statement provided to Diesel Progress. Cummins added that the Ram Tubro Diesel engine is “the most proven, with three years’ experience at the 2010 emission levels.”

“The Dodge Ram heavy-duty truck and Cummins Turbo Diesel have great loyalty with our mutual customers, and Dodge sells a higher percentage of diesel heavy-duty pickup trucks than competitive brands,” the Cummins statement concluded. “Cummins will continue to work to earn the Dodge Ram business and to create loyalty for the Cummins Turbo Diesel in the Dodge Ram trucks.”

Or so I've heard... I'm not really a dodge guy, but the Cummins makes it all too tempting. Assuming this is actually true and I'm not spreading wild fire but whats you guys take on this?

HOHN · 11-16-2009, 09:07 PM

Yet another rumor.

Ditching Cummins would be HD marketing suicide. Not even FIAT is that dumb.

JMO

Spooler · 11-16-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOHN

Yet another rumor.

Ditching Cummins would be HD marketing suicide. Not even FIAT is that dumb.

JMO

That is flat out the truth.... No way would I buy a Fiat engine for a diesel. I don't care what they say. It would be the death of the RAM, PERIOD!

rockcrawler304 · 11-16-2009, 09:32 PM

I never say never but.....It would be extremely hard for me to ever buy another dodge if it didn't have a Cummins in it.

96_12V · 11-16-2009, 09:42 PM

Before we all jump to conclusions, I would invite each of us to take a look at the Case-New Holland Website. Back in the late 1990's, their engines were nearly 100% Cummins-sourced, expect for a few small Perkins models. Oddly, they didn't advertise the "Cummins" name (never understood that one) but instead had a joint venture company formed called "Consolidated Diesel Coporation (CDC).

Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on.

Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!"

I would not want it. But it may be inevitable.

nelrod · 11-16-2009, 10:14 PM

Guess what 2 of the displacements the Iveco NEF (New Engine Family) produces

5.9 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 6.7

CoastalDav · 11-16-2009, 10:32 PM

Let them flock to that Ferd engine. Some one will use that Urea tank for something that sounds like urea. It will be in the shop the first year with computer problems.

I don't understand why dodge is going with the urea on the 4500/5500 2010engines. Might have something to do with diesel fuel delution in the crankcase. ?? Thats another conversation.

Dave

HOHN · 11-17-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96_12V

Before we all jump to conclusions, I would invite each of us to take a look at the Case-New Holland Website. Back in the late 1990's, their engines were nearly 100% Cummins-sourced, expect for a few small Perkins models. Oddly, they didn't advertise the "Cummins" name (never understood that one) but instead had a joint venture company formed called "Consolidated Diesel Coporation (CDC).

Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on.

Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!"

I would not want it. But it may be inevitable.

CDC is actually the original home of the B series. C/NH was the customer that partially paid for the development of the original B, and this JV was created to manufacture engines for C/NH.

Ironically enough, I just called CDC yesterday.

Anyway, to this day, industrial B engines are made primarily at Rocky Mount. (RMEP). Dodge Truck engines are made here in Columbus.

If the IVECO is a great engine, better than a Cummins, then Dodge would be smart to use them, even if the marketing would be tough.

Then again, look how well marketing has sold inferior Ford products?

JMO

klx650a2 · 11-17-2009, 07:59 AM

Iveco is the largest manufacturer of diesel industrial and truck engines over 70 horsepower in the world. I think it would be a mistake for dodge to drop Cummins, but Iveco makes a very good motor as well. Many are used in Case N/H agriculture applications. I was using one last weekend combining VERY wet wheat, 493 HP and chewing through 23 GPH. It was impressive.

Grit Dog · 11-17-2009, 08:58 AM

Maybe, Dodge or Ram or whatever they're called can use a couple smaller Iveco diesels in the 1/2 tons, midsize trucks, jeeps, etc.
Anyone see a new truck commercial where they only advertise it as "Ram"?
Saw it last night during the football game.

patdaly · 11-17-2009, 09:05 AM

Bought it for the Cummins, not really interested in learning to speak friggin Italian.

I will stay with Cummins, thank you very much. I have a torch, welder and a shop, so whatever truck fits my need can still be Cummins powered.

Copenhagenjunkie · 11-17-2009, 10:27 AM

The article from Diesel Progress:

http://www.dieselprogress.com/news_d...ck=2303&from=N

74dart · 11-17-2009, 10:37 AM

I will begin by saying I am not in favor of this at all. I like my cummins and would hope that when I need and can afford to buy a new truck the cummins would be available, but to look at this from a buisness point of view it makes sense. If the Fiat motor has comparable power, fuel consumption, and longeviety at a cheaper price then it makes sense. The reason I say cheaper is not to say the motor is cheaper, but because it can be built in house and not outsourced it could be cheaper. If you were running the company and you had the choice between using one of your own proudcts at a lower price or outsourcing a motor, which one would you choose. I for one hope the cummins stays and this could only be a corprate ploy to get cummins to drop the price on their proudct. Until it is completely played out we don't know. I don't nessecarly agree with changing the product, but I understand the reasoning.

youngbiodiesel · 11-17-2009, 11:46 AM

I guess the real question I have behind this one is it another rumor just floating around to stir things up or is dodge actually considering this. I've never actually HEARD of this Iveco engine till now. I like the cummins. Its why I'm here.

It would obviously be a big mistake to drop cummins. And if they do, this new Iveco engine would have alot of ground to hold on its own. Meeting all that emmisions crap and still be able to hold the 350,000 mile factory recommended overhaul interval? Thats asking alot of an engine company I've never heard of. Either way, I don't even know if this is actually true or if Chrysler would be stupid enough to drop a different engine in. By the responses it doesn't seem like anybody else has heard of this either till... well now.

rebal · 11-17-2009, 12:25 PM

If Cummins gets dropped it would be a huge mistake, and a big gain for the one who picks up the cummins and puts it in there rig. besides try getting parts for Iveco not as easy as Cummins

11-16-2009, 09:07 PM	#2
HOHN Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Engineering 2010 Cummins HD Engines Posts: 6,223 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Yet another rumor. Ditching Cummins would be HD marketing suicide. Not even FIAT is that dumb. JMO __________________ Justin I like to think I can offer you some points to think about, but I have LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE with the vast majority of performance enhancements out there: turbos, fueling boxes, etc. I can comment on how things might be "on paper" but things on paper and in the real world are very different. DO NOT make buying decisions based exclusively on my advice or any internet forum "wisdom". I'll offer you my free advice, and you'll always get your money's worth.

11-16-2009, 09:32 PM	#4
rockcrawler304 And BTW, How do I get the "Registered User" under my name changed? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Far West El Paso Texas Posts: 2,297 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I never say never but.....It would be extremely hard for me to ever buy another dodge if it didn't have a Cummins in it. __________________ Tow vehicle...2006 Atlantic blue Mega Cab 2500 4x4 6 spd. 3.73's CTD 325/610.. Silencer Ring gone...Amsoil EAA189 filter... Air Box mod... Quadzilla Max Mileage Module... Fuel Tank Vent Mod... Muffler gone Member #3 of DTR Megacab Club Join Here Member #12 of DTR GoofBall Club Join Here Towed.. Jeep CJ7, 304 with Holley Fi, T-18 trans, Dana 300 with 4 to 1 gear set, Dana 44 with Detroits F&R, 35x16.5x15 Boggers with MRT bead Locks, and way too much more to list.

11-16-2009, 09:42 PM	#5
96_12V Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: central Illinois Posts: 642 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Before we all jump to conclusions, I would invite each of us to take a look at the Case-New Holland Website. Back in the late 1990's, their engines were nearly 100% Cummins-sourced, expect for a few small Perkins models. Oddly, they didn't advertise the "Cummins" name (never understood that one) but instead had a joint venture company formed called "Consolidated Diesel Coporation (CDC). Now - with a few notable exceptions, all thier engines are Iveco engines. If they can change the sourcing at Case, they (Fiat) can do it with any company they have a handle on. Believe me, I HOPE this dosen't happen. However with the way the vast majority of Americans (execpt us on here) are in love with the "NEW" thing, it might appeal to some. Look at how people are "flocking" to the Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, as it's something "NEW!" I would not want it. But it may be inevitable. __________________ '96 Ram 2500 CTD 12V 5-spd 2WD 353k, Celebrating 2010! Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

11-16-2009, 10:14 PM	#6
nelrod Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: foothills of North Carolina Posts: 1,029 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Guess what 2 of the displacements the Iveco NEF (New Engine Family) produces 5.9 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 6.7 __________________ 06 3500 SLT,DRW G-56, Q.Cab, Commander, Quad Race, Smarty TNT-R, HTT 62/65/13SS, GDP airhorn, Flux 1's. Formula 1 V.springs, ATS Exh. manifold, ARP Head Studs, Stage 2 Floor it CP3, GDP Walbro w/2mic F.Filter, AEM Workhorse, SouthBend 3250 dd clutch, Opie Bypass, Fluid Dampner, metal rollup tonneau cover, Headache Rack, B&W Turnover Ball, Grover Triple Air Horns, Ranchhand Bumpers, Fr. & Rr., ROCKSTARS, other goodies.

11-16-2009, 10:32 PM	#7
CoastalDav Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Melbourne, Florida Posts: 855 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Let them flock to that Ferd engine. Some one will use that Urea tank for something that sounds like urea. It will be in the shop the first year with computer problems. I don't understand why dodge is going with the urea on the 4500/5500 2010engines. Might have something to do with diesel fuel delution in the crankcase. ?? Thats another conversation. Dave __________________ 2006 Dodge 3500 SLT, Cummins, 48RFE, 3:73's, 70 Gallon Transfer Flow Bed Tank with Trax II Monitor System, Racor Marine Centrifigal Water Seperator/10 Micron Filter in the system. Edge Insight w/pyro, Headache Rack, Turbo Wing, Rhino Bed Linner, Nasta Rails, Recon Lights and Strip Lights, Sirius Sat Radio, Net Weight 7,520 lbs with 34 gallons fuel Tagged at 13,500lbs GVW. Towing 35ft Carriage ,Triple Slide 5fer, GVW 14030. 04 Hemi Durango AWD "Grannys Hemi Kid Getter"

11-17-2009, 07:59 AM	#9
klx650a2 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Saskatoon, SK Posts: 1,164 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Iveco is the largest manufacturer of diesel industrial and truck engines over 70 horsepower in the world. I think it would be a mistake for dodge to drop Cummins, but Iveco makes a very good motor as well. Many are used in Case N/H agriculture applications. I was using one last weekend combining VERY wet wheat, 493 HP and chewing through 23 GPH. It was impressive. __________________ 2007.5, 2500HD, QC, Laramie, 4X4, SB, 68RFE, 3.73, Inferno red, Edge Insight w/pyro, MaxBrake, Firestone Ride-Rites and controller, Air-Zenith air compressor, EZ Change Drain plug, S&B drop in air filter, 250 watt oil pan heater, EGR unplugged. 2008 YZ450FX, matching 756's, Marcel Fournier ice tires, 320mm EBC supermoto front disk, billet fuel screw, DiD narrow x-ring chain, Ironman sprockets, Scotts SS oil filter, Dr. D pipe coming, love the SSS suspension...

11-17-2009, 08:58 AM	#10
Grit Dog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gypsum, CO Posts: 473 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Maybe, Dodge or Ram or whatever they're called can use a couple smaller Iveco diesels in the 1/2 tons, midsize trucks, jeeps, etc. Anyone see a new truck commercial where they only advertise it as "Ram"? Saw it last night during the football game. __________________ '07 Mega, SLT, 5.9, G56, 3.73, 4x4, Bullydog Triple dog, Southbend OFE clutch

11-17-2009, 09:05 AM	#11
patdaly Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Streator Illinois Posts: 2,943 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Bought it for the Cummins, not really interested in learning to speak friggin Italian. I will stay with Cummins, thank you very much. I have a torch, welder and a shop, so whatever truck fits my need can still be Cummins powered. __________________ "Brownie" 1997 2500 Ext.cab SLT, 4X4 auto, 3.54 gears, posilock, 98/99 steering conversion. New TC, lovin her again! Sold 3/13/2010, gone but not forgotten. "Greenie" 1997 2500 Ext. cab SLT, 4X4, NV4500, 3.54 gears, Ready to install SB DD3250, built just 216 trucks after Brownie!

11-17-2009, 10:27 AM	#12
Copenhagenjunkie Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Evanston, Wyoming Posts: 954 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	The article from Diesel Progress: http://www.dieselprogress.com/news_d...ck=2303&from=N __________________ 1998.5 24V CTD,3500 4x4 Intense Blue Quadcab, 396k, Loaded w/o leather,NV5600 w/ South Bend Clutch,HTT HX35/40,Smarty,turbo-master, DD2's,BHAF,AutoMeter pillar w/ Dakota Digital fuel,boost and egt gauges,9'flatbed w/GN, 5"straight piped,KDP-tabbed,vulcan lp relocate & big line kit. 95 Wil-ro 3 horse w/ new weekend package Paintpusher is my brother. 2001 2500 Quad 4x4 5600 Smarty,100k+ Dads: 1999 3500 Quad 4x4 5600, 496k

11-17-2009, 10:37 AM	#13
74dart Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Shelby NC Posts: 532 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I will begin by saying I am not in favor of this at all. I like my cummins and would hope that when I need and can afford to buy a new truck the cummins would be available, but to look at this from a buisness point of view it makes sense. If the Fiat motor has comparable power, fuel consumption, and longeviety at a cheaper price then it makes sense. The reason I say cheaper is not to say the motor is cheaper, but because it can be built in house and not outsourced it could be cheaper. If you were running the company and you had the choice between using one of your own proudcts at a lower price or outsourcing a motor, which one would you choose. I for one hope the cummins stays and this could only be a corprate ploy to get cummins to drop the price on their proudct. Until it is completely played out we don't know. I don't nessecarly agree with changing the product, but I understand the reasoning. __________________ 96 4x4 ext cab KDP fixed, stock p-pump and injectors .020 marine headgasket, PS 62/14, NV4500 swap, 13" SB organic clutch, Pyro and Boost gauge on A-pillar, 33" mudders, 5" Turn outs. 89 Jeep YJ, 2.5" lift, powered by a TBI 5.2l v8. ____ /],[____], l---L –[]lllllll[]- ()_)-()_)--o-)_) "Because 1/3 of the world is dirt." Only in a Jeep

11-17-2009, 11:46 AM	#14
youngbiodiesel Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Jersey Posts: 41 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I guess the real question I have behind this one is it another rumor just floating around to stir things up or is dodge actually considering this. I've never actually HEARD of this Iveco engine till now. I like the cummins. Its why I'm here. It would obviously be a big mistake to drop cummins. And if they do, this new Iveco engine would have alot of ground to hold on its own. Meeting all that emmisions crap and still be able to hold the 350,000 mile factory recommended overhaul interval? Thats asking alot of an engine company I've never heard of. Either way, I don't even know if this is actually true or if Chrysler would be stupid enough to drop a different engine in. By the responses it doesn't seem like anybody else has heard of this either till... well now.

11-17-2009, 12:25 PM	#15
rebal Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yuba city CA, Posts: 2,416 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	If Cummins gets dropped it would be a huge mistake, and a big gain for the one who picks up the cummins and puts it in there rig. besides try getting parts for Iveco not as easy as Cummins __________________ 1990 W250 bought new in Nov. 89 performance built 727 and torque converter , high miler 700 k heavly bombed kelderman air ride 2001 2500 HO 6spd 4x4, Engine brake , mad.ecm mach1.6s fass,SBC 4" turbo back exhaust BHAF fluid damper,ARP head studs, DSS, Fast cools.snow w/m, wife says trucks fast enough:( 335 hp/800 tq) How many of your rights are you willing to give up before you feel totally safe ?Wake Up People vote EVERYONE OF THE BUMS OUT OF OFFICE!

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