donhov

Per a prior post in the "Help" section from RamblinNRollin concerning his 06 truck After filling up and driving "ONLY 5 Mmiles or so" truck quit. Took to local dealer and was quoted about $20K to repair. Replace long block "due to metal shavings from rods and pistons" fuel system replace etc. Long list of items and labor.

I origionally come from the gasser era and find it difficult that:

1. Even that a full tank of water would cause piston & rod damage.
2. Cause any damage other than to fuel system, especially damage that can't be fixed by cleaning the fuel system and changing filters. (possibly injector damage).
3. That a station would have that much water in it's fuel that they aren't having other complaints on a major scale from other drivers.

Probably some other questions but at the moment I can't think of them so fire away with opinions and/or facts. Enlighten me please.

I do not claim to be any type of diesel expert, having owned a diesel for only the last 3 years but 30 years ago I built and drove/raced a mean 55 chevy 450 HP "B" Gasser on the strip, even racing Roger Lindamoods "Color Me Gone" dodge prior to him having a sponser so I'm not totally dumb either.

Guess I'm just trying to justify why a dealer would try to charge that much for damage from bad fuel. "To me sounds like a real rip off!!!" and I admit maybe I don't understand all and am willing to admit my thought process is flawed.

thanks for you thoughts...

DBLR

I sure will keep and eye on this subject as I can't see a small amount of water doing that much damage to an engine in only 5 miles unless an injector or two stuck wide open. Did he fill up just before this happened and if so i hope he kept his fuel slip to prove where to got fuel at so that they can pay for the repairs.

wildbeast

You need to know if water got past your water separator at the fuel filter. If water did get past and was injected into the combustion chamber you would have serious damage. Diesel engines are much higher compression than gasoline engines, the combustion chamber is compressed to a extremely small volume. So with a diesel all it takes is a few drops of water, which does not compress, and wham-o you have bent rods, busted pistons, or other such failures. A gasoline engine can fail just the same, but would need more water.

donhov

Same questions, how much water would it take??? 5 miles of driving would equal at least 1/2 gallon of fuel and ie it was almost all water? How about Water/meth injection system (and yes I know it's a metered amount of water & meth) wouldn't that cause same problems??

Sorry, I still don't understand so here is a direct copy of the original post from RamblinNrollin's posting in the Help section:



"First off a little background... i own a 2006 dodge cummins 4x4 dually and use it to pull my 40ft straight deck trailer for a living(hotshot)... last thursday i got done dropping a load off and was low on fuel and pulled into and exxon to fill up... let me just say me personally usually fill up at either flyin j or valero fill in stations but i was low and needed diesel so i stopped at this shady lookin exxon... put exactly 30 gallons and headed home made it approx. 5 miles when my truck water in fuel light came on and started shaking shortly thereafter... keep in mind that i have my 40fter on down i10 with lots of traffic so i couldnt just shut it off immedialetly. i nursed it over to the shoulder of the road by that time so much white smoke was coming out of exhaust u couldnt even see the trailer or anyone behind me.... to make a long story short i had it towed to local dodge dealership...following morning they called and asked if i ahd filled up with my water hose....i immedialtely went back to the exxon and taked to the owner... again long story short...he said sorry he has had problems with water in his holding tanks before. i bit my tongue since he promised to make it right. his insurance adjuster contacted me 2 days later after repeated attempts of myself tryin to get ahold of him...like i said i hotshot and my truck is my work..i finally got the adjuser....long story short again....he said they r only willing to pay 6000.00 out of the 20000 yes 20,000 dodge said it was going to cost and if that wasnt enough my down time and rental truck would not be provided either.... thank god i kept my reciept because i have gotten an attorney and am takin him to court... i do not have the money to get my truck fixed..so i am stuck paying 100.00 a day 4 a rental that comes out of my pocket.. my lawyer said that exxon has 60 days to settle and thereafter if no agreement is reached it could take up to 2yrs harris county.(houston) to go to court.... i cannot beleive how this could happen and why or how anyone could possibly afford this...also why wont exxon just settle? i have the diesel receipt, tow receitp, 30 gallons of watery diesel and a qoute from dodge .... also do yall think my truck will ever be the same they said pretty much everything is fried.. injectors, new motor b/c theold had metal shaving where hte rod hit the piston i mean it just gos on and on.. sorry bout the length of this just very stressed and need some advice thanks to all and always remeber keep your reciepts.."

ptgarcia

I would think it takes quite a bit more than a few drops of water, but I'm not an expect either. But guys inject water into the intake on purpose to lower EGTs.

Jeff in TD

As I understand it, with a common rail diesel if just a trace of water gets to the injectors, it can ruin them and cause them to basically spray wide open.

One of the differences from a gas engine is that the injector sprays into the combustion chamber instead of the intake port or intake manifold. If there's water in the tip of the injector, the same heat from compression that causes the diesel fuel to burn will explosively turn that water into steam.

Also, in a gas engine if one injector continues to spray when it's not supposed to, the mixture will go rich and it might overheat the catalitic converter, or if it's really dumping fuel it might be too rich to burn, foul the plug, and/or the extra fuel might wash the oil out of the rings.

In a common rail diesel, though, if one injector leaks and sprays into the combustion chamber when it isn't supposed to the fuel will generally ignite as diesels will run on a much broader range of air to fuel ratios. The result is generally a knock from that piston, and/or very high temps in that cylinder which might melt the piston down if the problem isn't detected or corrected. From what I understand the operator might not notice high EGT's, since the exhaust from the other cylinders is generally mixed with the one with the bad injector prior to the temp probe...

Anyhow, I'm no expert, but this is just my understanding...

bcfitzsimons

Donhov-that truly sucks. It's a good thing you saved the one thing that I never do-your fillup receipt. There's nothing worse than watching your baby die a slow, painful death.

That being said, 20K for what needs to be done is absolutely ridiculous. Heck you can buy one of these engines new for $12K, and figure the labor may cost you AT MOST 1K-2K bucks to put it in and make sure everything's connected correctly. I'd have your truck hauled to an experienced Cummins shop near you and have them do the swap (look on the ADS website and find a shop near where you are). It's still a pretty steep price tag, but you can do a heck of a lot more with the 6K saved than with 0!

Just make sure that whoever does the swap ends up draining the fuel tank too (don't forget you have 30 gallons of Exxon Valdez slush left in the tank)! Not doing this would be a big

Anyway, let us know how it turns out. But make no mistake-20K for what needs to be done is a ripoff.

HTH-

Fitz

bcfitzsimons

Donhov-just realized that it wasn't your truck that bit the dust, it was RamblinNRollin's. Still sucks.

Nate-03 D

After sitting here reading this I can't help but think to my self. How in the heck does so much water get into the diesel fuel? Is it shotty practices at the refinery? Poor handeling during transportation?

It is a good thing the guy has his recipt still, I hope everything works out for him.

donhov

OK. consesus seems to be what I was also thinking. He is getting ripped off. I recomended that he contact his insurance company and file a claim with them and hopefully they will go after the Exxon station that seemed to have caused all the damage. I agree that if an injector tip were to have come off maybe a lot of damage, but it's still hard to believe that there could have been that much damage from water in fuel, maybe $5000-8000 at the dealer if they pull the tank and much more work is inviolved but not a new engine.

OK enough rant, thanks for the reply and sorry if it looked like it was my problem, I'm just looking for info to justify to me that much damage......and used this as a example....

Jeff in TD

Even if it ran long enough with a bad injector to melt a piston and it needs a long block, that still seems like a steep price...

Turning it in to insurance sounds like a pretty good idea. Let them and their lawyers worry about collecting from the fuel distributor...

Joe T

Yeah, my when my mom's honda burned to the ground the insurance company went after Honda.... I don't think if affected her rates.

Bark

Have to agree with some views here. The only way I hurt a gasser was drowning a toyota (carb and air filter under water) which bent a connecting rod. I have had so much water in the tank of a Ford PU that it would barely run with starter fluid (long story) but it didnt hurt the engine. I just cant see the injectors pumping enough water into a CTD to cause piston or rod damage. I know I am probably wrong but I just dont get it.

bcfitzsimons

Either way, $20K for a long block is a total ripoff. The ******* that Ramblin took his truck to is trying to fleece him. It's dealers like this one that make me mad-do they think the average guy is dumb enough not to ask other people if that price sounds too steep?

Lark

A little off topic, but this is not entirely true anymore about gas engines. I had an 06 VW Jetta 2.0 Turbo (gas) that sprayed directly into the combustion chamber. I "think" BMW may be doing this as well, but not sure.