Would I be money & time ahead of the game to just go ahead & buy fresh soybean oil, as opposed to riding all over GA to come up with the quantities of oil I need to make a 1000 to 1500 gallons per week?
Is corn oil, cottonseed oil, or peanut oil any better?
What is the best & cheapest & where can i find it in GA? I am building a system using 275 gallon plastic totes in metal cages. If anyone has done this, I am open to suggestions. We start construction in the morning.

I just figured it would save time to buy a couple thousand gallons of veggie oil & not have as much work to do in the process of making BIO, or is the process the same, no matter veggie oil or WVO?

I am also going to be mixing waste motor oil with my BIO. Should this cause me any problems? I am also looking at making diesel out of WMO, because I can get plenty of it FREE.
Thanks for any help.

Containers are good for storage. I assume you can find pleanty of good peanut oil in Ga. Same process to make Bio. with virgin or WVO. Virgin may make less biproducts.

I don't know where to find any kind of virgin oil or anything else. That is why i was asking. I plan to use the containers I have for my BIO system.They don't funnel down, but do have a 2 inch ball valve opening. I will figure something out.

Please advse on where to buy the oil from. Thanks

Avoid plastic containers, for anything but storage. If you burn a whole in one, it's hard to stop it from enlarging. Use steel barrels or an old hot water heater for your processor.

Make sure you filter your WMO vry well.

I pour it from one bucket to another using a T-Shirt or towel. Motor oil that comes directly out of a oil pan is already filtered. I don't worry about my own, but when I get it from other sources, I do filter it to make sure there is no particles in it. I am about to build me a 2 filter pump system to run it all thru, once I get going.

I still need to know where to buy Veggie oil & which oil makes the best BIO. Which one is the most economical to by, etc. I appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Annabelle, The plastic i have is 3/8ths thick. They are actually used in a business that pours up to 220 degree asphalt sealant in them. If plastic is no good for making Biodiesel, why are there so many different systems for sale with them? Thin plastic YES, thick plastic should be plenty safe. I will find out one way or the other though.

I still say avoid plastic. It's used because it's cheap and easy. I have seen spills caused by plastic. You will need a heat sourse up to 130 * F. Just be carefull. I don't mean to tell you what to do, I just won't use plastic for processing.

I'm in construction, and I have a friend that seals asphalt for a living. 220* is pushing it I'd say.

Any ideas on where to buy veggie oil? Is there no one here that knows?

Try resturant supply, or Ag suppliers.

If you are building a processing system that uses a plastic tank for a reactor, you are being foolish.. They are a HUGE fire hazard.

Try this site:

http://www.bulkoil.com/scripts/oiltype_item.asp?p=127

Mr Murphy there must be foolish people all over this country, because everyone I have seen is plastic & it doesn't cost 12 thousand dollars. Please don't try to promote your products to me, by bad mouthing what I am doing. I have a chemist with a master's degree working on this with me, & he has assured me, we will have no fire hazzard, unless an outside fire should engulf the whole area where we have our system set up.

Mr Murphy I have noticed your posts to other people doing it themselves, and you always seem to criticize what they are doing. Please send me one of your machines on a trial basis & we will see if it is worth 12 Grand or 12 dollars, otherwise, ????????????[guitar] [guitar]

Thanks Sunwizard for the link & responding with info I was looking for.

I have a BS in chemisty also. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I would not use plastic in processing either. The expensive plastic processors are over priced. I wen't thru "Girl Mark" and made my own. Her plans were complete, yet inexpensive. Plastic is more of a melting hazzard than a fire hazzard. JM02.

Mr Murphy there must be foolish people all over this country, because everyone I have seen is plastic & it doesn't cost 12 thousand dollars. Please don't try to promote your products to me, by bad mouthing what I am doing. I have a chemist with a master's degree working on this with me, & he has assured me, we will have no fire hazzard, unless an outside fire should engulf the whole area where we have our system set up.

Mr Murphy I have noticed your posts to other people doing it themselves, and you always seem to criticize what they are doing. Please send me one of your machines on a trial basis & we will see if it is worth 12 Grand or 12 dollars, otherwise, ????????????[guitar] [guitar]

Thanks Sunwizard for the link & responding with info I was looking for.

BIGHEAD, you seem to be living up to your handle... [laugh]
I'm not trying to sell you anything and my processors don't cost $12K. If you are refering to the BioPro, that's made by AGR not me..

My plans cost $99 and show you how to build a safe steel system for around $400 or so.

There are literally THOUSANDS of foolish people in this country.. and I am not "BAD MOUTHING" what you are doing. I'm trying to save your home and possibly your LIFE by giving you solid advice from "those in the know"..

Are you wondering what interest I have in saving your home from a biodiesel fire? Let me tell you.. At the time, there are no regulations or restrictions on making biodiesel on your residential property.. However, every home fire that is caused by someone making biodiesel brings us all one step closer to government interference and regulation.. That would be VERY bad... That's my motivation.. I hear about a fire somewhere about once every two weeks or so..

I am a 20 year Industrial Process Engineer and have built many different kinds of machines for the automotive industry over the years. If I ever installed a system that reacted flammable chemicals in a plastic tank, I'd probably be sued out of business for negligence.

While your "Chemist" may know the chemistry involved (any 12 year old could make biodiesel) he doesnt know jack-ding dong about process safety if he's telling you a plastic tank is ok.. In fact, that very bad advice would make me cautious about anything else he says..

Come on dude.. use your common sense.. HOT OIL + FLAMMABLE METHANOL + Caustic chemicals in a plastic tank = BAD BAD BAD..

You dont need a "chemist" to make biodiesel.. I've had literally hundreds of people ask me for advice about the chemistry.. everyone is so intimidated by it.... I try to tell people " Its no more difficult than making bacon and eggs for breakfast".. You dont need to know the exact molecular composition of an egg to cook it.. Really.. I'm not joking or pulling your leg.

I offer my advice to small home-brewers free of charge.. No need to purchase anything from me or send any money.. MY ADVICE IS FREE.. you can't get any better than that eh? I'll even talk to you on the phone for an hour to two if you like.. (you can pay for the call) and fill you full of great advice at no charge.. all you have to do is say thanks and DONT burn down your home. And, the phone call is not so I can pester you with sales crap.. I dont work that way..


However, when I see someone doing something wrong, I speak up loud and clear.. No offense to you or anyone else but there is a right way, and a wrong way to make fuel.. A plastic reactor is THE WRONG WAY.

Here is what happens to PLASTIC REACTORS.. (Notice the cardboard boxes did better than the tank in the fire)
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j237/Murphy2000/AdPicture5_Small.jpg

Motor oil that comes directly out of a oil pan is already filtered.

are you saying that the WMO strait out of the pan is filtered enough to dump in the fuel tank?

I hope thats not what your saying because injection pump cost alot, I filter my WMO down to 1 micron just to be safe.

Let me give this another shot and lets see what happens.


Would I be money & time ahead of the game to just go ahead & buy fresh soybean oil, as opposed to riding all over GA to come up with the quantities of oil I need to make a 1000 to 1500 gallons per week?
I doubt it very much. Anyone who has those kinds of volumes to sell is probably a regular bulk dealer.. Paying for the oil basically doubles its cost.. You may as well just stick with petrol diesel at that point on your scale.
There are really good ways to collect oil that are very effiecient.. Let me know if you're interested and I can point you to some great informaton on how to do it.


Is corn oil, cottonseed oil, or peanut oil any better?

I've made biodiesel from all three.. Well, not very much from peanut oil but I've made thousands of gallons using both corn and cottonseed. Both gel around 40-45 degreesF or so from waste oil, I'd bet you could drop that figure by six to ten degrees if using new oil.. Canola is by far, hands down the king in this category.. (Support your canadian farmer!)
Canola=Canadian Oil Low Acid
Its freeze point is almost god-like in the biodiesel world.. in the teens and twenties for new oil, mid 30's for used oil if its good stuff..



What is the best & cheapest & where can i find it in GA? I am building a system using 275 gallon plastic totes in metal cages. If anyone has done this, I am open to suggestions. We start construction in the morning.

It is ok to make your wash tanks and dry tanks from plastic containers.. The 275 gallon totes you describe are called IBC's and would make very nice wash tanks.. They could also be turned into dry tanks but would not be nearly as efficient operating like that because of their shape.
Please do not use any of these IBC totes as a Reactor..[nonono] If you attempt to make biodiesel that way, you are doing yourself, and us as a group, a great dis-service. [dummy] IBC totes, and any other type of common poly-xx plastic tanks can not take the heat required to process fuel.. Well, I should correct that and say that theoretically, they can, but the processing time required to achieve an acceptable conversion rate at the lower temperatures would be so long, it wouldnt be worth doing... (Think days instead of hours for reaction time)[verymad]
Ask your chemist friend about the saying "Time-Temperature-Concentration".. Its true for almost all chemical reactions.. In fact, it is anagolus to "Volts-Amps-Resistance" in electrical engineering and "Volume-Pressure-Resistance" in fluid dynamics. All are basic mathematical models that hold true in all normal physics.:cool:

I just figured it would save time to buy a couple thousand gallons of veggie oil & not have as much work to do in the process of making BIO, or is the process the same, no matter veggie oil or WVO?

Would It save time? Of course it would.. You don't have to collect it.. At those volumes, I think they deliver [coffee]
The question should be, is it economical at your scale. Short answer is NO and I'm not going to go into why because I'm hear to help you make fuel not financial desicions.[tapdshut]


I am also going to be mixing waste motor oil with my BIO. Should this cause me any problems?

Yup it will..I hope the money you save can buy a new engine.. And if you are selling that fuel, big big problems. [duhhh]
While you can filter out the metal shavings, you can not filter out the dissolved metals without a whole lot of special chemistry.. Yes, metals can dissolve in a liquid and there's a bunch of other stuff in there that will also dissolve and damage your engine. :(


I am also looking at making diesel out of WMO, because I can get plenty of it FREE.
Thanks for any help.
The best thing you can do with waste motor oil is to burn it for heating..The heating can be anything including your giant sized processor. While electrial heating is very cheap to set up, and ironically, 100% effiecient in heat transfer, it is also very expensive. The best way is to heat air and water with WMO.. When you heat water, you can use that same water to heat both your shop and your process.. in fact, indirect hot water heating is one of the best heating methods you can use..

Another tip for you... I would suggest you start making small batches of fuel yourself.. Get yourself a hotplate (hot plate stiring platforms are nice but pricey).. like me, you can also use a microwave).. Get a scale capable of measuring down to .01 grams minimum.. Preferably .001 but .01 will due fine.

Grab some used peanut oil or something else used and learn to make biodiesel on a laboratory or test size scale.

Use KOH not NaOH (just trust me)..

Have you done any calculations on the pump size and turn-over rates within the tank? Mixing is important.. No mixing, no biodiesel...:o
What about heat loading? How many btu's do you need to reach proper reaction temperature in a reasonable amount of time?

Do yourself a favor and build an appleseed first.. [director] Learn how and why it works while you save money on fuel.. Then.. when you have an understanding, and you've made 200 gallons of fuel instead of 200 gallons of glop, you'll have a better idea of what's going on.. And if you do make glop, which many newbies do on their first few tries, you only make 20 gallons of glop instead of 200.

If you want to succeed, you have to learn, plan, then do.. Fail at any of the three and the whole thing goes to crap. Mix up the order, the same thing happens.



There are some very good links on my site.. start from the top and go down in that order.. read what you find at biodieselcommunity and you will learn to make biodiesel the correct way and the safe way.

Also, if you do insist on using that tote, please do so in the middle of a field someplace away from buildings and trees.

hope this helps...

If you are insistant on going with big batches, 300 gallon batches are the most economical. Go with KOH, and try a school system for your oil. I'd still make my reactor out of steel. Go here for supplies http://www.b100supply.com I got "Girl Mark's" book for $18.00. It covers the basics plus has plans and parts list. Good luck.

If you are insistant on going with big batches, 300 gallon batches are the most economical. Go with KOH, and try a school system for your oil. I'd still make my reactor out of steel. Go here for supplies http://www.b100supply.com I got "Girl Mark's" book for $18.00. It covers the basics plus has plans and parts list. Good luck.

Huh?

250 gallon batch at 22%meth = 55 gallons even... 1 batch = 1 drum of methanol. You can just mix the methoxide right inside the barrel the methanol came in.. you get a new methoxide tank with each batch :D

On the other hand, if the guy wants to do 1500 gallons a week then he should just have meth delivered by the tanker truck.. There's a significant price break that way. (significant being a slight understatement)

Sorry, I was rounding up. Thanks for the correction. However, I usually do better than 22%. Meth is getting more expensive. 1 Drum per batch is correct though for a "big batch." I make smaller batches and store it.

are you saying that the WMO strait out of the pan is filtered enough to dump in the fuel tank?

I hope thats not what your saying because injection pump cost alot, I filter my WMO down to 1 micron just to be safe.

I do it all the time & my Dodge is approaching 300k miles. I usually do pour it from one bucket to another, using a T shirt as a filter. If the oil in the oil pan is so contaminated, then why do those dumb engineers at Cummins put the oil Pickup in the bottom of the pan, with only a metal screen over it?????

I really do not care what someone puts in there vehicle. I have run this stuff along with hydraulic oil & used tranny fluid. I did stop using the used tranny fluid, because I did realize there are plenty of metal particulates in it, as compared to engine oil. The burnt motor oil is just easy money IMO. I have never had a failure using it. My wifes 2006 VW TDI, seems to burn it just fine too. I am building me a system to filter it though using 2 of my big plastic totes.

Mr Murphy thanks for your advice & help. I may be in contact soon. Right now I am working the fire burning up S GA & N FL, & don't have time to fool with any of it. I do appreciate your advice though. I did look at your website & thought I saw a 12 G, 200 gallon, fully automated machine on there. Maybe I saw it somewhere else. Thanks again. Going back to bed for awhile.

Hm I just purchased a drum of methanol delivered for 135$. It was 225 last fall :o

Hm I just purchased a drum of methanol delivered for 135$. It was 225 last fall :o

Ya I know.. I just found that out the other day.. I got 10 drums last time and the price has fallen back to last years levels..[guitar]

Looks like "the methanol guys" are on our side because the oil guys would have never lowered the price..:D

We can all say thank you to Methanex corp for that one..[director]