PDA

View Full Version : Using OD while towing


John H
11-11-2002, 11:58 AM
I have a 93 D250 CTD with three speed auto transmission. This last week-end, I drove the West Virginia Turnpike with 7000# camper in tow. I found that if I wound the truck up to 70mph in OD, I could pull just about all the hills with wide open throttle, and it didn't drop out of overdrive. If the speed fell to about 60mph, I manually took it out of overdrive for the rest of the hill. That didn't happen on that many hills. I did this thinking the prohibition on towing in overdrive was due to not wanting to have the transmission constantly shifting in and out of gear, but this morning someone told me that the high torque from the Cummin's engine is what would trash the transmission.<br><br>Is this true? Should I be changing out of overdrive in the hills, and if so how steep, and is there some criteria that you guys use, to tell you when to change, and that I can follow?<br><br>John

KC
11-11-2002, 02:00 PM
John you said 3 speed auto correct? In a 3 speed there is Not an overdrive as far as I know.<br><br>KC

John H
11-11-2002, 03:10 PM
The transmission has selections for 1 2 and D. Then it has an overdrive lock-out button on the dash. I took that to mean the transmission was a three speed with overdrive. I know that in drive, with OD locked out, I'm limited to about 65-70mph by what feels to be engine rpms. If I leave OD in, I've had the truck up to 90mph (not towing you understand) and still pulling strong. My nerve quit at that point.<br><br>John

bullfrogjim
11-11-2002, 04:30 PM
John,<br>Your trans. is a 4 speed unit with the lockouts for 1st and 2nd on the column and the o/d lockout keeps it in third and out of your 4th gear overdrive. I guage when to shift out of overdrive by my rpms i shift out of overdrive once they get below about 2000. Of course my truck is different but I think that 2000 rpm's is a good rule of thumb to save the tranny.

dan239
11-11-2002, 04:50 PM
John

As a previous owner of a 92 with automatic transmission, I can tell you that it does have an overdrive.

I have towed both in overdrive and with it locked out and my conclusion was to lock it out all the time when towing my 5th wheel which weighed over 10,000#.

However if your trailer weighes only 7,000#, you can tow in O/D as long as the temperature guage does not start to go up or it starts hunting between O/D and 3rd. This is just my opinion from previous experience.

Since you are towing as fast as you do, you should not have a problem. The only thing I would change in the way you are driving is I would take it out of O/D as soon as the truck starts losing speed.

These 1st Gen auto O/D units are known to be weak. Just don't put it in a strain and you should be okay.

The 2nd Gen auto O/Ds are much improved.

Dan

spitzair
11-12-2002, 10:07 AM
Whenever I tow my Bobcat 873 (about 8000Lb) behind my 92 W250 I leave the O/D out. Around here I'm usually limmited to about 60 MPH to begin with, and at that speed the O/D kicks in and out even without a loaded trailer. I also keep the O/D out to get better engine braking. Just my 2 cents...

pwabbott
11-12-2002, 03:07 PM
My 90 had a 3 speed auto with overdrive. There was an overdrive lockout switch on the dash. I lost the first overdrive unit with 1500# load in bed driving I-5 at 75. Underwarranty the tranny was rebuilt and a new (improved) overdrive unit installed. Towed with it till over 150,000 miles without a problem. Used Class IV equalizer hitch. Towed 16 ft tandem axle utility trailer loaded to 8000# in mountains. Always locked it out of overdrive for towing.

SeaRay88
11-12-2002, 08:10 PM
I have a 4.6L gas engine, auto, 4.10. I always tow in OD. Unless you think you're a lot smarter than the computer, let it choose the gear. Up and Down hills-2nd or 3rd. On the flatlands of CA, let the tranny choose the gear. Just my 2 cents. 8) <br><br>PS. My engine and tranny loves to run at 4000 rpm and has over 104K miles on it, so I must be doing something right. Huh???

John H
11-12-2002, 09:42 PM
<br>John,<br>Your trans. is a 4 speed unit with the lockouts for 1st and 2nd on the column and the o/d lockout keeps it in third and out of your 4th gear overdrive. I guage when to shift out of overdrive by my rpms i shift out of overdrive once they get below about 2000. Of course my truck is different but I think that 2000 rpm's is a good rule of thumb to save the tranny.<br><br><br>I wish I could do the same, but my '93 doesn't have such luxuries as tach, or transmission temp gage, or boost gage, or EGT gage etc. etc. I know I should probably add them, and one day I will, but right now I don't have them. Coming off a gas engine, I have no feel for engine rpms, even cruising at 70mph, it felt like it was still at idle. This truck doesn't accelerate, it just gains inertia.<br><br>John

SeaRay88
11-12-2002, 09:49 PM
Well, yeah. So does my 4.6L. It won't snap your neck pulling a 8000 pound trailer. It goes from 0-70, but if you're looking at a stopwatch, it'll run down. I really don't care what the 0-60 speed is, as long as it's not losing speed when I get to the hills. My gasser gets 11+mpg on the highway towing and 22+ solo, so I'm happy with it. Can't see spending 4000 on a diesel. Sorry.

John H
11-12-2002, 09:54 PM
<br>John<br><br>As a previous owner of a 92 with automatic transmission, I can tell you that it does have an overdrive. <br><br>I have towed both in overdrive and with it locked out and my conclusion was to lock it out all the time when towing my 5th wheel which weighed over 10,000#. <br><br>However if your trailer weighes only 7,000#, you can tow in O/D as long as the temperature guage does not start to go up or it starts hunting between O/D and 3rd. This is just my opinion from previous experience.<br><br>Since you are towing as fast as you do, you should not have a problem. The only thing I would change in the way you are driving is I would take it out of O/D as soon as the truck starts losing speed.<br><br>These 1st Gen auto O/D units are known to be weak. Just don't put it in a strain and you should be okay.<br><br>The 2nd Gen auto O/Ds are much improved.<br><br>Dan<br><br>That was what I'd heard, that the 1st Gens were weak in the transmission area, but I thought it was because of the changing in and out of OD, not the high torque.<br>Incidently, at 65-70mph in OD, even at wide open throttle, I got better gas mileage than running at 60-65mph at part throttle.<br>How did you get away with pulling a 10,000# trailer with the '92? My '93 is only rated at 12,000 GCVW with the 3.54 rear end. It still only jumps to 13,000 (I think) with the 4.11 axle. That limits me to about 7-8,000# max.<br><br>John

SeaRay88
11-12-2002, 09:57 PM
Chit. My Ford 4.6L pulls that load with no problemo. Guess them deesels ain't so hot. Running 4.10 gears, auto. Gets 10 mpg in the hills, 11+ On the flats. 22+ on the highway solo. Just like a deesel, but I can gas her up at ANY station. Got over 105K miles on it and it still runs like new. Just like a deelsel.

Commatoze
11-12-2002, 10:07 PM
<br>Chit. My Ford 4.6L pulls that load with no problemo. Guess them deesels ain't so hot. Running 4.10 gears, auto. Gets 10 mpg in the hills, 11+ On the flats. 22+ on the highway solo. Just like a deesel, but I can gas her up at ANY station. Got over 105K miles on it and it still runs like new. Just like a deelsel.<br><br><br>Mmm.... ::) By your screen name, I say you like boating. Like to fish? Ever do any trolling? [laugh] [laugh]

pwabbott
11-12-2002, 11:06 PM
SeaRay88, the computer isn't intelligent in and of itself. By allowing the computer to make all your shifting decisions regardless of road, grade, and traffic conditions you are accepting the ideas of some engineer who programmed the computer without any knowledge of your current experience. The program is based on on the engineer's averaged idea of what you are likely to be experiencing not what is happening in reality. <br><br>We have a Grand Cherokee with tow package and computer controlled auto tranny. We were towing a 2500# trailer along going up an 8% grade. Because of curves we were travelling between 35-40 mph. Suddenly the computer shifted the tranny into low gear and red-lined the engine. The sudden downshift threw us forward against our seat belts. Just as quick I responded by removing my foot off the go pedal. <br><br>I had the computer checked for fault codes. There were none and tranny tech said under certain conditions this behavior was programmed into the computer.<br><br>According to your way of thinking if the computer has a bug in it's program, let it do it's thing, even if it blows the engine, it knows best.<br><br>The saying here applies, &quot;Garbage in, Garbage out&quot;.

dan239
11-13-2002, 10:49 AM
<br>That was what I'd heard, that the 1st Gens were weak in the transmission area, but I thought it was because of the changing in and out of OD, not the high torque.<br>Incidently, at 65-70mph in OD, even at wide open throttle, I got better gas mileage than running at 60-65mph at part throttle.<br>How did you get away with pulling a 10,000# trailer with the '92? My '93 is only rated at 12,000 GCVW with the 3.54 rear end. It still only jumps to 13,000 (I think) with the 4.11 axle. That limits me to about 7-8,000# max.<br><br>John<br><br>It is not so much the shifting as it is the torque that destroys the O/D.<br><br>The 1st gen transmissions are not weak except in the overdrive area. My son once had a 90 model that was a 3 speed automatic [no O/D] and it was as tough as they come. This was basically the old 727 transmission which was used in motorhomes in the 70s and 80s, and some of them weighed up in the 20 thousand range. The 727s in motorhomes were almost trouble free.<br><br>As to pulling with a 1st Gen truck, they were very underrated as to GCWR. I always felt that my towing limit was 14,000# max and very comfortable under 13,000#. I probably towed 11,000# or maybe 12,000# with mine and no problem. I do drive easy and do not get in a hurry taking off. Driving habits have a great deal to do with how much the truck can handle. Also, I never towed that much in O/D as I could tell the truck was straining and it would run hotter.<br><br>With my 98, I still feel that my towing limit is 14,000#. The only difference is I can tow in O/D if the road is fairly flat and I am not pulling over 10 or 11 thousand pounds.<br><br>Hope this all helps<br><br>Dan

pwabbott
11-13-2002, 11:13 AM
I agree with you, dan239, the old 727 tranny design was a real workhorse. One of the weakness of the 1st overdrive equipped trannys is they didn't have an adequate supply of fluid circulating for heavy duty use. The result was the overdrive would overheat and fry. I lost an overdrive unit this way. The tech that worked on mine said some overdrive units were so bad the parts couldn't be separated. They just replaced the overdrive with up-graded unit. In Colorado in 93 saw home humongous 5th wheels being towed by Ram diesels, 36 ft triple axle jobs. [eyecrazy]

dan239
11-13-2002, 11:42 AM
Thanks Phil, for explaining what the problem was with the 1st Gen O/Ds. They must have changed them in 94, because the problem seemed to be gone after that. I have talked to several people who were towing in O/D with 2nd Gen trucks and none had any problems so far.<br><br>I looked at one rig for sale a few years back. He had [as I recall] a 95 Reg. cab automatic with a 30 foot Hitchhiker and he said tha he had always towed in O/D and would quarantee the rig to get 16 MPG all day long. He had never had a problem of any sort. I estimated that he was towing between 12 and 13 thousand pounds.<br><br>Dan

SeaRay88
11-13-2002, 06:27 PM
OK, Sierra Phil. I have to admit to using the shift lever and button on the end. I-5 is pretty flat and it's not a big shifting problem, but I do the controlling over the hills like I-80 and the Grapevine. Yeah, I do boating. '88 Sea Ray Weekender. About 8000 pounds dry on the trailer. Dual axles, brakes. You know it's there, but not a problem starting or stopping.

John H
11-14-2002, 09:31 PM
<br>I agree with you, dan239, the old 727 tranny design was a real workhorse. One of the weakness of the 1st overdrive equipped trannys is they didn't have an adequate supply of fluid circulating for heavy duty use. The result was the overdrive would overheat and fry. I lost an overdrive unit this way. The tech that worked on mine said some overdrive units were so bad the parts couldn't be separated. They just replaced the overdrive with up-graded unit. In Colorado in 93 saw home humongous 5th wheels being towed by Ram diesels, 36 ft triple axle jobs. [eyecrazy]<br><br>Thanks for that piece of info, Sierra Phil, makes more sense now. Thanks also to everyone else for all the replies.<br>My read on this now, is that the consensus seems to be it's OK to tow in overdrive so long as you don't over strain it, or let it overheat (although how you know you're doing that beats me). However, much as how the truck felt fine doing it, I guess I'll have to back off and slow down, darn, just as I was starting to enjoy myself. I just hope I haven't done any damage by making that run on the turnpike. I'll have to think a bit more about putting some gages on it, especially a tranny temp gage.<br><br>John

dan239
11-15-2002, 12:21 PM
John<br><br>When I am talking about overheating, I am referring to the temp guage for the engine. My 92 temp guage would start climbing if I left it in O/D going up a long hill.<br><br>From what you have said, I do not think your previous method of towing is a problem, except maybe to take it out of O/D a little sooner when you start losing speed. Go by the feel of the engine. As long as it feels like it is running free, you are okay. Some have said that when you realize that you cannot accelerate, it is time to downshift, no matter what gear you are in.<br><br>Dan

pwabbott
11-15-2002, 03:53 PM
General rule for towing long grades or in the mountains is to lock out of overdrive before you start to lose speed. If you do this you will maintain rpm on the tach and thereby have more torque to wheels for pulling grades. :D

95ramtough
11-15-2002, 05:05 PM
Chit. My Ford 4.6L pulls that load with no problemo. Guess them deesels ain't so hot. Running 4.10 gears, auto. Gets 10 mpg in the hills, 11+ On the flats. 22+ on the highway solo. Just like a deesel, but I can gas her up at ANY station. Got over 105K miles on it and it still runs like new. Just like a deelsel.


Why do you come to a DIESEL site to brag about your gas engine and put our engines down? unless you are joking thats cool, but learn how to spell deesel correctly. And you can not compare a small ford gas engine to a cummins. We call it [censored] envy where I am from. I am not putting down your truck, your posts just make you look immature.

SeaRay88
11-15-2002, 05:38 PM
Sorry, if I put down your engine. I'm in the market for a new truck and am trying to convince myself that a non-gas engine is the way to go. I was in Lake Havasu over the weekend and pulled into a gas station with 4 other tow vehicles. One guy says: &quot;they don't sell my kind of fuel here&quot; Yeah, that's why there called GAS stations. You need to try the truck stop down the street. <br><br>I've talked to lots of guys that tow 8-12k pound boats and they swear by those non-gas engines, but I tow a 8k+ pound boat with NO problem and I can buy gasoline ANYWHERE, at a gas station. I get 22+ mpg running solo, 11+mpg towing. And my 4.6L gas engine didn't cost any extra in my truck. Please convince me I NEED a non-gas engine. Maybe for that NEW 12K pound boat? At 104k miles, it still runs like new, uses no oil and shifts like a new truck. HELP! ??? 8)

darryl
11-15-2002, 09:56 PM
nice boat searay now if you really want a diesel and are going to tow heavy and long miles break down and buy a cummins if you are going to stay around california and not tow long distances go buy a &lt;sorry guys ! &gt; F250 superduty v10 goes like a racecar and the supercab stays tight and rattle free and the new 5r120 trans should be out for ordering now

John H
11-15-2002, 10:17 PM
General rule for towing long grades or in the mountains is to lock out of overdrive before you start to lose speed. If you do this you will maintain rpm on the tach and thereby have more torque to wheels for pulling grades. :D

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, and I really do appreciate all the responses, but the problem I have in trying to work with that philosophy, is that when I try to cruise in OD at 70 mph, it appears to be a higher speed than I can run in third. So I have to wait until it slows down to about 60 mph before I can lock out the overdrive. Catch 22! Does that mean I'm stuck to towing in the hills at 60 mph? Shucks, I didn't want to have to slow down so early in life. That'll come soon enough. I guess I'll still have to curb my Andretti tendencies.

John

John H
11-15-2002, 10:36 PM
<br>John<br><br>When I am talking about overheating, I am referring to the temp guage for the engine. My 92 temp guage would start climbing if I left it in O/D going up a long hill.<br><br>From what you have said, I do not think your previous method of towing is a problem, except maybe to take it out of O/D a little sooner when you start losing speed. Go by the feel of the engine. As long as it feels like it is running free, you are okay. Some have said that when you realize that you cannot accelerate, it is time to downshift, no matter what gear you are in.<br><br>Dan<br><br>The engine temperature was the one thing I took care to watch, it never climbed at all. In fact all that happened was that the slow oscillation of the temperature gage, you know the slow rise and fall of the gage needle, about one division on the gage, disappeared and the temperature stabilized.<br><br>So, maybe I haven't hurt the transmission after all. But that criteria about changing down if you are not able to accelerate means I can never run WOT. That's no fun. I kind of enjoyed passing everybody.<br><br>Actually being serious for once, that 10 mph makes a big difference to a long trip. I'm used to running for 10-12 hours straight, only stopping for fuel and jettisoning ballast, and over that length of time, 10 mph adds a lot of miles. But there again, if I can't run at 70 mph, maybe I can still run at 65 mph. I might even stay within the speed limit and avoid a ticket that way. ;D<br><br>Thanks<br>John<br>

bulabula
11-15-2002, 10:41 PM
Searay, 4.6l? Whatcha pullin' that big ol' boat with, an F150? If my lil' ol F350 CC/7.5l could perform like that lil one of yours, I'd still be pulling my lil 8500# Formula with it. <br><br>The cool thing about my new truck here, is that now I can pull the boat faster while its sitting on the trailer than it can go all by isself thru the water.

pwabbott
11-15-2002, 11:56 PM
SeaRay88, The Lake Havasu story, some people may call them &quot;gas stations&quot;, however that is an incorrect term for any liquid fuel. &quot;Filling Station&quot;, &quot;Service Station&quot;, or &quot;Fueling Station&quot; are correct terms. Gas is the vapor state not a liquid fuel. True not all fueling stations sell liquid petrol called Diesel or Fuel Oil, as not all stations sell liquid petrol the liquid motor vehicle fuel you call gasoline. Some are limited to selling LPG as a motor vehicle fuel. Other are limited to selling CNG as a motor vehicle fuel. If a fueling station chooses to limit the products they sell, that is their business, however, they should post the products they sell in a visible manner for drivers to see. Frankly I prefer to fuel at a large Travel Center as their product is fresh.<br><br>John H, Towing at 70 in the mountains is risky business, not so much going up but coming down. Speed limit when towing in OR and CA is 55. In CA you won't be served a ticket if you don't go over 60 mph. You can tell when &quot;Smokey Bear&quot; is on the prowl, most 18 wheelers going right at 60 mph. It doesn't matter how good a driver you are its the other guy you can't count on. Hunter had a close encounter with a little old lady, if he had been towin no telling what would have happened. [eyecrazy] [eyecrazy] :'(

dan239
11-16-2002, 08:20 PM
John<br><br>You may want to check to see if your truck is hitting the governer limit before it should. As I recall, I could tow my 10,000# 5th wheel with my 92 [O/D locked out] and hitting the wide open position was never a problem. Most of the time I was running 65 MPH and had some speed left. I do not recall ever hitting the wide open position when towing in 3rd gear.<br><br>You have indicated that your truck runs wide open at 70 in O/D. What rear end do you have in your truck?<br><br>My truck would run 80 to 85 MPH easy. I had the 3.54 rear end.<br><br>Just something to consider.<br><br>Dan

John H
11-16-2002, 10:11 PM
<br>John<br><br>You may want to check to see if your truck is hitting the governer limit before it should. As I recall, I could tow my 10,000# 5th wheel with my 92 [O/D locked out] and hitting the wide open position was never a problem. Most of the time I was running 65 MPH and had some speed left. I do not recall ever hitting the wide open position when towing in 3rd gear.<br><br>You have indicated that your truck runs wide open at 70 in O/D. What rear end do you have in your truck?<br><br>My truck would run 80 to 85 MPH easy. I had the 3.54 rear end.<br><br>Just something to consider.<br><br>Dan<br><br>Dan, I too have the 3.54 rear end in my truck.<br><br>However, if I lock out O/D the most I can seem to do is about 65 mph, admittedly this is while towing in the hills, I have never tried to do it on the flat. I guess I should do that to see if I'm governed.<br><br>I originally mentioned running in O/D at 70 mph, with wide open throttle, but that was because I was trying to pull up the 5% grades on the West Virginia Turnpike. I know I can run much faster than this on the flat, because I've occasionally had to pass someone who should have been charged with loitering, and didn't want to expose myself in the left lane too long.<br><br>I'm going to take the trailer to South Carolina on the 27th, Thanksgiving, so I'll get to try it all again. This time, maybe I'll do it right.<br><br>Thanks<br>John

John H
11-16-2002, 10:34 PM
<br>SeaRay88, The Lake Havasu story, some people may call them &quot;gas stations&quot;, however that is an incorrect term for any liquid fuel. &quot;Filling Station&quot;, &quot;Service Station&quot;, or &quot;Fueling Station&quot; are correct terms. Gas is the vapor state not a liquid fuel. True not all fueling stations sell liquid petrol called Diesel or Fuel Oil, as not all stations sell liquid petrol the liquid motor vehicle fuel you call gasoline. Some are limited to selling LPG as a motor vehicle fuel. Other are limited to selling CNG as a motor vehicle fuel. If a fueling station chooses to limit the products they sell, that is their business, however, they should post the products they sell in a visible manner for drivers to see. Frankly I prefer to fuel at a large Travel Center as their product is fresh.<br><br>John H, Towing at 70 in the mountains is risky business, not so much going up but coming down. Speed limit when towing in OR and CA is 55. In CA you won't be served a ticket if you don't go over 60 mph. You can tell when &quot;Smokey Bear&quot; is on the prowl, most 18 wheelers going right at 60 mph. It doesn't matter how good a driver you are its the other guy you can't count on. Hunter had a close encounter with a little old lady, if he had been towin no telling what would have happened. [eyecrazy] [eyecrazy] :'(<br><br>Sierra Phil, Thanks for the reminder, I keep forgetting that some states have lower speed limits when towing. I'm not used to towing the bigger stuff (coming off small trailers and boats, which don't get that much attention), so I hope I'll learn before I get caught.<br>I was extra careful to make sure that while towing at 70 mph, that when I came over the top of the worst of the West Virginia TP 5% grades, I could take my foot off the throttle and without using brakes could actually slow down on engine braking alone (and that's not much). Up to then I'd had a certain amount of trepidation about that (being new to diesels), but that kind of settled my mind. I'm now looking forward to finding steeper hills.<br>However, you're right about the other guy though, they scare me more than I scare my wife, and that's saying something. After riding motorcycles for many years, in snow and ice, I always leave a lot of room for &quot;unforeseen circumstances&quot;, but I know there's always the odd-ball out there with my number on his bumper. I just hope mine's stronger than his.<br><br>Thanks<br>John

pwabbott
11-16-2002, 11:38 PM
The sign posted in Calif are very clear, &quot;55mph speed Limit for trucks and autos towing trailers&quot;. If a sign is posted for trucks it usually applies to trailers being towed. In 97 traveled through 22 states in two months. The speed limit for towing trailers varied almost as much as the states we traveled. Some we never figured out. Check in Woodalls or Trailer Life directories of RV Parks. They both have a section &quot;Rules of the Road&quot;. It gives rules for each state and province regarding towing restrictions. ;)

greatwhite
11-17-2002, 09:44 AM
Hi. The way to be sure what your tranny temp is is to install a temp guage. Tranny temp guages get pricey, but tempguages don't care which fluid temp they are measuring. I bought an electric water temp guage kit and installed the sender into the fitting in my return line ( not all trucks have them, but mine did) . I shift out of overdrive when tranny temp hits 200*F. Maybe too soon, but trannies are exspensive. BTW my truck has 3.54 gear and will only run 105kph 65 mph in direct. Th th th thats all folks. No more. Searay 88 if you are getting 22mpg empty :o with that 4.6 you should be very quiet because ford wants it back. Never yet talked with anyone who doesn't moan about poor fuel mileage from their ford v-8. OH by the by I get 17 mpg towing my 27' 5ver at 65. And 22-24 on winter fuel 27-28 on summer fuel. And the best part is... I don't have to be seen in a Ford! [laugh]

SeaRay88
11-17-2002, 12:25 PM
Here is a chart from Transmission Exhange Co. Don't know who they are, but I thank them for this info. It's a good chart to keep next to your temp gage. My Ford 4.6L auto 4.10 never exceeds 180 towing 8000 pound trailer. Runs 125-150 on the flats, 175-180 in the hills. 8)

If'n you're running 200F, I'd think about an external oil cooler or a bigger on if you already have one. 8) Cooer is better.

Stevie G
11-17-2002, 01:06 PM
SeaRay, <br>Thanks for the Tranny temp info. Very helpful.<br><br>As for your Diesel dilema, here is something that may help with your decision. I am planning on rebuilding my Cummins when it hits 500K miles (End of next year ;D). How long is that 4.6L going to take the punishment you are dishing out? ???

dan239
11-17-2002, 02:14 PM
SeaRay,
Thanks for the Tranny temp info. Very helpful.

As for your Diesel dilema, here is something that may help with your decision. I am planning on rebuilding my Cummins when it hits 500K miles (End of next year ;D). How long is that 4.6L going to take the punishment you are dishing out? ???


Just wondering why you would rebuild a Cummins at 500,000 miles. I have heard of several over 1,000,000 miles and the engine never gone into.

The best I have ever heard was recently from a salesman at a local Dodge dealership. He told me he was trying to trade for a Dodge-Cummins that had 1,600,000 miles with no major engine repair. He said the owner claimed that it still was not using oil. The owner was a hotshot hauler and was about ready for a new truck.

Dan

RATTLINRAM
11-17-2002, 02:41 PM
<br>Here is a chart from Transmission Exhange Co. Don't know who they are, but I thank them for this info. It's a good chart to keep next to your temp gage. My Ford 4.6L auto 4.10 never exceeds 180 towing 8000 pound trailer. Runs 125-150 on the flats, 175-180 in the hills. 8)<br><br>If'n you're running 200F, I'd think about an external oil cooler or a bigger on if you already have one. 8) Cooer is better.<br><br>SeaRay88,<br> Just curious as to where your temp probe is mounted. I have mine mounted in the line leaving the trans on its way to the cooler. My temps run about 150-165 on the flats and the mountains as long as I keep the torque convertor locked up. I have seen the temp rise to 220 briefly when unlocked as I reached the top of a long climb on Black Mtn. I-40 @ 90* outside temp. This was pulling 10,000lb+ 5er. However, this is reading temp before the cooler and not the temp of the fluid in the pan.

SeaRay88
11-17-2002, 04:01 PM
I put one of these in the line from the tranny as close as possible to the output. I also have a BIG external cooler in line after the factory cooler. Seems to do the job.

So far, so good. Engine has 104k miles on it and uses no oil. Tranny still shifts like new. I'm happy with it. Once the dealer put in the 4.10 gears, I've had no complaints pulling my 8k trailer. (I know, it's too heavy, unsafe, overloaded, yadda yadda yadda). I drive nice.

pwabbott
11-17-2002, 04:16 PM
Greatwhite, Installing temp sender in return line doesn't tell you anything until it's too late, after the fluid has been cooled by the coolers. Installing in perssure line from trasnny to cooler tells you the max temp fluid is getting. That determines when the oil is about to fry your tranny. You have a chance to take corrective action before damage is done. <br><br>I purchased a tranny temp gauge and sending unit for $30 recently. Why go with a water temp gauge?

greatwhite
11-18-2002, 12:27 AM
Terminology problem. [undecided] It is in the line from the tranny to the cooler, not from cooler to tranny. But I thank you for the heads up. I was told by a tranny shop I deal with that temps in the out line are typically 20*-30*F hotter than those measured in the pan. Every tranny guage I looked at was $59-$89 so I went with the regular electric temp guage. Dang those Scottish roots. :D

SeaRay88
11-18-2002, 07:38 PM
I'd watch the temps coming out of the line at the tranny. The temp of the oil is the most important thing to watch. It breaks down at a certain temp and will destroy the tranny. If I see it approaching 175, I back off and slow down. Fortunately this doesn't happen often. Getting someplace 10 minutes late is a small price to pay. A new tranny at $1500-2500 is a BIG price to pay. 8)

pwabbott
11-18-2002, 08:40 PM
Greatwhite, I've got Scottish Roots too, Macnab Clan, Descendants of the Cleric. Your $59.95 loonies, about $38.25 yankies. I hate not getting a good deal. Years ago I bargained with a dealer and got his price down to what he said was lowest possible. Went to another dealer and bought for 3% lower, below invoice. I made a copy of Sales Contract and sent it to first dealer. (he had told me I couldn't buy under his price.) A week later I receivead a certificate from them &quot;Voted Chisler of the Month by Sales Department&quot;. Every person with scottish blood in their veins would be proud of that honor.<br><br>Sea Ray88 my 98 towed in lockup at 150-170 degrees. As soon as it came out of lockup the temp would rise to 205 degrees. On a steady 6% grade with ambient temp below 80 degrees tranny temp would continue to rise when converter not locked up. This was with a D-C factory remanufactured tranny. <br><br>I went to 5 speed on my 2003 because I have one mile of 14% grade getting to my house. Because of a 270 degree curve at the start of the grade I am going no more that 10 mph. On this pull the tranny temperature was up to 250 degrees at the summit. Tranny temp warnind light comes on at about 260 degrees. Tranny fluid at 250 degrees is good for about 3000 miles. Too close for comfort for an automatic under these conditions.<br><br>Tranny fluid at 215 degrees is good for about 15,000 miles. At 190 degrees tranny fluid is good for 75,000. Without tranny temp gauge you are playing &quot;Russian Roulette with Your Tranny&quot; . Lock it out of overdrive unless you can't maintain minimum speed of 60 while in overdrive. [undecided]

SeaRay88
11-18-2002, 08:59 PM
Put these in. Red backlight for tranny, green for coolant. A-Pillar pod. Looks good and the gauges are close to you. Not too costly. Paid about $100 for the gauges and pod. Thanks to Martel Bros and Autometer for the picture.

Grampaw
11-19-2002, 09:23 AM
Hi All,<br>Is there any standard rule of thumb as to when I should hit the O/D button? Do I have to be at an even speed? Can I be climbing a hill? I'm very new to this diesel world!<br>Thanks<br>Bill ::) :-[

dan239
11-19-2002, 09:51 AM
<br>Hi All,<br>Is there any standard rule of thumb as to when I should hit the O/D button? Do I have to be at an even speed? Can I be climbing a hill? I'm very new to this diesel world!<br>Thanks<br>Bill ::) :-[<br><br><br>You should let off of the accelerator before you take it out of O/D so that it shifts easy. The basic rule for when, is to take it out of O/D when you can no longer accelerate and you are loosing speed.<br><br>Dan

pwabbott
11-19-2002, 10:36 AM
Ditto on that, Dan239! :D

John H
11-19-2002, 09:56 PM
Okay, I have one more question and then I promise to shut up, at least for a while.<br>From reading the posts, on my next trip, I would like to keep the truck to at least 2000 rpm while running in overdrive. Unfortunately, my first gen doesn't have a lot of extras, including engine tach. Could someone with a four speed auto transmission and with a tach, tell me what speed 2000 rpm occurs at in O/D and also in third? I'm going to post this also in 1st gen, so I hope no-one will be offended.<br><br>John

pwabbott
11-19-2002, 10:52 PM
John H, depends on your rear axle ratio. ???

John H
11-20-2002, 06:23 AM
<br>John H, depends on your rear axle ratio. ???<br><br>Duh! Sorry, I forgot all about that. 3.54:1 ratio.<br><br>Thanks John

pwabbott
11-20-2002, 10:42 AM
John H., According to my calculation 70 mph should be about 2000 rpm in overdrive. 49 mph should be about 2000 rpm in third gear. <br><br>

chuck3
11-20-2002, 10:49 AM
At 2000 rpm mine is running 75 mph, but I have the 265 tires allso, so if you have 245's 70 would be close.

dan239
11-20-2002, 11:32 AM
<br>John H., According to my calculation 70 mph should be about 2000 rpm in overdrive. 49 mph should be about 2000 rpm in third gear. <br><br><br><br><br>I agree that 70 Mph is about right in O/D. However, I think the 3rd gear speed of 49 MPH is way too low.<br><br>Please double check your calculation.<br><br>Dan

pwabbott
11-20-2002, 12:31 PM
John, D, Overdrive ratio for automatic is .69 compared to 3rd gear of 1.0, this would mean that in 3rd gear the engine rpm is approximately 1/3 greater in third gear than overdrive. To maintain the same 2000 rpm the speed would be reduced by approximately 1/3 which is 49 mph.<br><br>Here is the math:<br><br>70mph x .69 ratio of change = 49 mph<br><br>Ratio of change = .69 overdrive ratio/1.00 3rd gear ratio

dan239
11-20-2002, 01:44 PM
Phil <br><br>You are correct. I even checked it with my truck and I am running just under 50 MPH at 2000 RPM in 3rd gear. I just did not think there was that much difference. It seemed too much to me. I hate being wrong, but it is better than holding on to a position of error. Thanks for the correction.<br><br>This has raised a question. It seems that many have mentioned that their automatic locks up the T/C in 3rd gear. Mine is not doing this. Is it supposed to?<br><br>Dan

chuck3
11-20-2002, 02:23 PM
Yes Dan you should have 3rd gear lockup. If your running around 50 at 2k you are most likely in 3rd lockup.

RATTLINRAM
11-20-2002, 04:35 PM
That's what I'm getting running 245's ,,,, 50mph @ 2k in 3rd and 70mph @ 2k in OD.

I know how you felt Dan, it took me a while to figure out if mine was locking up in 3rd. It's not as pronounced as hearing 4th unlock go into 4th lockup. This is why I had some problem when I towed in the mountains with the new 5er climbing Black Mountain on I-40. When I came out of OD, it went into 3rd unlocked, at which time I should have given it time to go into 3rd lockup by not being so aggressive on the throttle. However, I didn't do that and saw my trans temp rise to 220+ by the time I got to the top. After realizing what I was doing wrong and changing my driving habit a bit,, I don't have that problem any more. I don't know if all the trucks shift this way, but I think I know how to drive mine so that it performs the best when towing. I've found that my trans temp gauge is the best indicator of when the TC isn't locked,,,,,,, Man the temp climbs fast!!
Has anyone else felt like their trans has stayed unlocked for too long or had an experience as I have just described?

pwabbott
11-20-2002, 04:48 PM
dan239, I don't want to sound like I know it all, just toop my experience from two trucks and did some calculations.<br><br>You should have a torque c lockup in 3rd gear. It is sometimes difficult to detect. On my 98 the only way you could detect 3rd lockup was when it was locked out of 4th. Then under light throttle, accelerate from a stop slowly and count the shifts, 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to locked converter. Under light throttle lockup occurs above 40 mph. Another way to detect 3rd lockup is to be towing and before you start up lock out of OD. If the grade is a steep enough one and long enough you will gradually lose speed down around 50 a slight increase in pedal will cause it to prepare for a downshift and unlock torque c. without a downshift. You will notice an rpm increase by the sound of your motor .

dan239
11-20-2002, 05:28 PM
Thanks guys, I will check it out.<br><br>The reason I do not think the T/C was locked up is, in 3rd gear and running about 45 or 50, I can accelerate just slightly and the RPMs will go up before the speed increases. This indicates slip of the T/C.<br><br>In O/D and lockup, the RPMs will not change unless the speed increases because it is direct to the rear wheels and no place to slip.<br><br>If I am in 3rd and locked up I should get the same reaction, unless I am missing something here.<br><br>Dan

pwabbott
11-20-2002, 06:04 PM
dan239, what you have described is normal behavior at that speed. You are so close to the minimum speed for lockup that a change in engine speed will cause it to go back and forth. <br><br>Try this. Lock out OD and take it up to 65 mph hr steady then let up on go pedal suddenly while watching rpm. It shouldn't have drop suddenly at that speed. My 98 helt steady under the conditions I just described because it wasn't near a downshift speed.<br><br>When vehicle is near a possible downshift speed and you let up on the throttle it will unlock and rpms will drop in anticipation of a shift.<br><br>Hope this helps. 8)

John H
11-20-2002, 09:22 PM
<br>John H., According to my calculation 70 mph should be about 2000 rpm in overdrive. 49 mph should be about 2000 rpm in third gear. <br><br>Thanks Sierra Phil. On my way home tonight, I locked it out of O/D and floored it in third. It peaked out at 70 mph on the flat. Using your calculation method, I judge that to equal about 2850 rpm. Does that sound a bit high for the 1st gen, or am I just reading high on the speedometer?<br><br>John

SeaRay88
11-20-2002, 10:25 PM
I don't get it. These deesel drivers brag about towing their 5th wheels and 15000 pound travel trailers at 70 mph and getting 20 mpg.

Here's a guy that tops out at 70 mpg, full throttle on the flat and level. Running solo.

Who do I believe? The idiots towing their 15000 pound homes at 70, or the guy who tops out at 70. Running solo.

I really don't get the deesel crowd. Towing at unsafe speeds. Bragging at high mpg. Complaining about no power. Aftermarket add-ons for more power.

What's the REAL story abour deesels??? ???

I don't want to make anyone mad on this, I just want the TRUTH. My fellow boaters all swear their Duramax deesels are the way to go, but when I follow them down the freeway, I get 11+ mpg towing my 8000+ pound boat, and I don't run out of gas because a GAS station doesn't sell DEESEL fuel.

pwabbott
11-20-2002, 11:12 PM
Just as a quick guestimate that sounds about right, John<br><br>Come on SeaRay88, John H has a 1st generation Cummins Ram. In 94 the Ram with Cummins had 400 lb-ft of torque @1500 rpm and were rated 160 bhp at 2500 rpm with auto tranny. Sounds like he's tellin it straight.<br><br>I've learned that many truck owners are a lot like fishermen, There is some truth in everything they say. You have to be the judge.<br><br>Trailer life had an article awhile back on towin with Diesels. Many Diesels do get 14 mpg towing high profile 5ers but mileage drops off fast after their speed gets above 60 mph. As a driver you must decide whether you want to get good mileage or pass everyone towing.<br><br>Solo driving on freeways in the open, mileage should be above 20 mpg for a Cummins. <br><br>You are correct that towing at 70 with a trailer of 15,000# is unsafe on most highways. That's why some states have a 55 or 60 mph speed limit for those towing. <br><br>Having worked hard to afford the tow vehicle and 5er I have I'm not going to risk a $75,000 investment. Besides I want to live to enjoy the fruits of my labors. ;)

SeaRay88
11-20-2002, 11:23 PM
OK. So I got a little 4.6L gasser, 200 hp. Torque?, What's that. This little gasser gets 21+ on the freeway at 65. 15.5 on the weekly tank. Pulls a heavy boat and gets 11+ at 60, 9 at 65. Pulls just about any mountain pass under 10000 ft OK. Convince me. Or is it just the smell and the sound of the engine diesel drivers like?

pwabbott
11-20-2002, 11:27 PM
Two kinds of diesel owners, those that want a reliable engine to tow heavy loads and those who like to brag bout their 800 hp and pullin the rear end out from under some DMaxi while his pistons are flyin through his hood.

Stevie G
11-21-2002, 06:27 AM
<br> I locked it out of O/D and floored it in third. It peaked out at 70 mph on the flat. Using your calculation method, I judge that to equal about 2850 rpm. Does that sound a bit high for the 1st gen, or am I just reading high on the speedometer?<br><br>John<br><br><br>SeaRay, that was in third gear. <br>I tow a 53' car hauler with my 92 D-350. I get 15-17mpg loaded. It will accelerate to highway speed in the length of most on-ramps while loaded.<br>http://www.swampfoxcustoms.com/RigRtFrt.jpg<br>She's registered for 26,000# GCVWR and at least one other rig on this forum is registered for 31,000#.<br>Try that with a 4.6L gas engine and you will break something before you get to the highway.<br>I am getting ready to do a tranny upgrade to reap the benefits of a lock-up T/C and towing in OD (That is the THREAD TOPIC, right?).<br>btw, it's Diesel<br>

RATTLINRAM
11-21-2002, 09:34 AM
<br> I'm totally against diesel with the smell, noise and carcenogenic exhaust, so I'll bite the bullet at the pump.<br><br><br>This was a quote from your second post on this forum board. My question is, &quot;Why don't you join a website whose focus is the gasoline engine?&quot;<br><br><br>I really don't get the deesel crowd. Towing at unsafe speeds.<br> Who do I believe? The idiots towing their 15000 pound homes at 70, or the guy who tops out at 70. Running solo. <br><br>This was a quote from your post at the top of the page.<br><br><br>I've had no complaints pulling my 8k trailer. (I know, it's too heavy, unsafe, overloaded, yadda yadda yadda). I drive nice.<br><br>Does “Driving Nice” keep one from being an idiot?<br><br> If you are so happy with your gasser and it fills all of your needs for the vehicle you want to tow with, why do you demand that someone convince you otherwise? You have not asked any questions to gain information that weren't accompanied by a negative attitude and evidently not read any of the other forums such as the 1st Gen, 2nd Gen or 3rd Gen Engine &amp; Drivetrain which would have educated you to the fact that there are many differences in these models of trucks.<br> If your intent of being here is to learn more about the diesel powered trucks from people who drive them, then fine. If your only intent is to have a place to repeatedly boast about your gasser and hope for an argument, then I find it unbeneficial to the members on this site.<br> <br>

admin
11-21-2002, 09:58 AM
<br>OK. So I got a little 4.6L gasser, 200 hp. Torque?, What's that. This little gasser gets 21+ on the freeway at 65. 15.5 on the weekly tank. Pulls a heavy boat and gets 11+ at 60, 9 at 65. Pulls just about any mountain pass under 10000 ft OK. Convince me. Or is it just the smell and the sound of the engine diesel drivers like?<br><br><br>You're already convinced. You were before you got here. Keep that gasser. I know a great site for you, www.fordtruckenthusiasts.com

chuck3
11-21-2002, 05:14 PM
[quote author=dan239 The reason I do not think the T/C was locked up is, in 3rd gear and running about 45 or 50, I can accelerate just slightly and the RPMs will go up before the speed increases. This indicates slip of the T/C.<br><br>Dan<br> <br><br><br> Dan thats the way mine did at first. Try this, get in 3rd lockup and floor it, if the rpm goes up faster than the speedo then your TC is indeed slipping, mine was and when it was removed it had been so hot it had started turning blue. :o

SeaRay88
11-21-2002, 06:04 PM
Thanks, Jack. I'm still cruising for a bruising. I may think I'm convinced, but someone out there ought to be able to convert me. I'll check out the other site. <br><br>bob 8)

John H
11-21-2002, 10:01 PM
<br><br> I locked it out of O/D and floored it in third. It peaked out at 70 mph on the flat. Using your calculation method, I judge that to equal about 2850 rpm. Does that sound a bit high for the 1st gen, or am I just reading high on the speedometer?<br><br>John<br><br><br>SeaRay, that was in third gear. <br>I tow a 53' car hauler with my 92 D-350. I get 15-17mpg loaded. It will accelerate to highway speed in the length of most on-ramps while loaded.<br>http://www.swampfoxcustoms.com/RigRtFrt.jpg<br>She's registered for 26,000# GCVWR and at least one other rig on this forum is registered for 31,000#.<br>Try that with a 4.6L gas engine and you will break something before you get to the highway.<br>I am getting ready to do a tranny upgrade to reap the benefits of a lock-up T/C and towing in OD (That is the THREAD TOPIC, right?).<br>btw, it's Diesel<br><br><br><br>The reason I did that was to test the governer (the engine is governed, isn't it?) I had been told in an ealier post that I aught to check it out, and that seemed the easiest way to do it. It did get up to speed pretty darned fast. I queried the speed and calculated engine rpm because I had been told (by someone at work) that the engines were supposed to cut off at 2500 rpm. My calculated 2850 rpm seemed high.<br><br>John

dan239
11-21-2002, 11:16 PM
Chuck<br><br>I do not think my T/C is slipping. In O/D with T/C locked up, I never get any indication of slipping.<br><br>I had my truck out today pulling a small trailer and played with it with O/D locked out. I still have not determined that my T/C is locking up in 3rd gear. Every way I tried it it seems the it is unlocked. Maybe it is just hard to detect as has already been suggested. I will test some more.<br><br>Dan

SeaRay88
11-21-2002, 11:48 PM
I wonder what a flatbed Ford F550 with 20 pallets of sod weighs. Pulled one of those off the road once to clear a clogged freeway. 30-40,000 pounds maybe. Course, I only went a few hundred feet..... 8)

RATTLINRAM
11-22-2002, 12:07 AM
<br>Chuck<br><br>I do not think my T/C is slipping. In O/D with T/C locked up, I never get any indication of slipping.<br><br>I had my truck out today pulling a small trailer and played with it with O/D locked out. I still have not determined that my T/C is locking up in 3rd gear. Every way I tried it it seems the it is unlocked. Maybe it is just hard to detect as has already been suggested. I will test some more.<br><br>Dan<br><br><br>You know Dan,<br> It seems to me that I read somewhere, of someone tapping into the wire that sends the signal to lock and unlock the TC. They installed a small light that showed when the TC was locked and when it wasn't. It didn't seem like it was to difficult either.<br> At least I think I read it,,,,,,,,,, maybe I was just dreaming, or thinking of something else. Anyone else heard of this?

dan239
11-22-2002, 11:41 AM
Thanks Dennis<br><br>I will check the wiring diagrams to see how difficult it would be to hock up a light or just a meter. I would like to know for sure.<br><br>Dan

dan239
11-22-2002, 02:32 PM
Dennis<br><br>Thanks for the suggestion. I tapped into the TC signal wire from the PCM and put a meter in the cab for road testing. <br><br>I found that the signal is about 12 volts when the TC is unlocked and would drop to zero when locked up.<br><br>With this I could tell that my TC is locking up in 3rd gear, somewhere around 40 MPH with OD locked out. I also determined that when I am running at higher speeds with OD locked out and punch the button to go into OD, the first thing that happens is the TC unlocks. Then it goes into OD and TC lockup. This had mislead me to think that I did not have TC lockup in 3rd gear.<br><br>All is clear now and it is working as it should.<br><br>Thanks to all who offered help on this matter. <br><br>Dan

SeaRay88
11-24-2002, 10:02 PM
Rattlin. Sounds like I got you rattled. I'm just lookin' for info. The more I read about the diesel engine, whether it be Ford, Chevy or Dodge, the more I see problems. <br><br>My nephew drives a big rig and is monitored from point A to point B by his employer. He has someone working on his rig at truckstops from the east to the west coast. <br><br>As civilians, owning our own vehicles, we don't have that corporate backing following us all over the country. I want the vehicle with the lowest first cost, maintenance cost and highest resale cost. I don't see this with a diesel. <br><br>Most people, retired or working don't drive 500 miles a day, every day of the week. If you're a working stiff, you drive to and from work. If you're retired, you drive from Wyoming to Arizona and sit for 6 mos. A gas engine is the cheapest way to get from point A to point B. <br><br>I'm outta here. I will tell all my fellow boaters how I was treated by the diesel website. They love their diesels too. But they treat me with respect for my opinion. And, I've bailed their butts out of trouble when they couldn't get fuel for their deesel engines.<br><br>'Bye. 8)

admin
11-24-2002, 10:59 PM
See ya.

Haulin_in_Dixie
11-24-2002, 11:39 PM
Love it Jack, left coast intellegence. Maybe I should change out that smelly Cummins for a small block ford. ;D ;D ;D

P Kennedy
11-24-2002, 11:50 PM
Searay88 you claim to have inside info with a brother who drives tractor trailer and how much insite this has given you. With a little info you claim to know more about it all than all those who invested either in a diesel pickup or out on the road driving the big rigs. Then you vent by claiming you are being treated poorly by the people here who volunteered their experiences at no cost to you. Now I sit here like many others trying to figure out what it is you have for us, we know you own a gasser and a boat and the rest of us will never have anything as good as yours. I've read your posts on two sites on different topics, all people have info thats usable but you manage to promote it looking for a fight. Several posts by different people suggested you carry on elsewhere,if this was not true why are you still here. PK

pwabbott
11-24-2002, 11:56 PM
SeaRay88, If you are looking for the highest resale value it sure isn't a gasser. If you are driving a big rig time is money. Downtime is lost money. They put so many miles on the big rigs they constantly require service.

By the way I am retired and the longest we sit with our 5er in one place is one month. It is not unusual for us to travel for two to 3 month at a time and travel 8,000 miles or more during that time. We have 7 acres to come home to and relax if not on the road. Those that as you say sit in one place for 6 months are not sitting, the go places driving on one or two day trips. Your conception of retired people is far from reality for RVers.

If you want a vehicle with the first lowest cost buy a three year old one.

From what I have seen in your posts, you came to this forum with a closed mind. You have been treated fairly for someone with a &quot;chip on his shoulder&quot;.

When you get your attitude adjusted, come back with an open mind. :-[

bulabula
11-25-2002, 09:07 AM
let him go. He was here to stir the pot.

pwabbott
11-25-2002, 10:25 AM
As a high school teacher I saw this behavior time an time again. Adolescents for whatever reason can't have what other classmates have. So, they turn on those that have and belittle those who have and the object of their envy or what they Covet.<br><br>Shows something missing in their moral training, &quot;Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's house. Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wive, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.&quot; <br><br>Some adolescents never grow up and remain unhappy throughout there lives as a result.<br>

Lary Ellis (Top)
11-25-2002, 10:30 AM
Amen Phil! <br> And as you saw it show's it's ugly head in the other threads as well. &quot;Only what I have is any good, everything else is garbage.&quot; Sad to see grown men act this way, they end up being the biggest losers because their eyes are shut too tight to learn anything.

pwabbott
11-25-2002, 11:16 AM
An experience of this kind is good for all of us once in awhile. It forces us to stop and examine ourselves, our values. One cannot act that way without effecting family and friends. <br><br>It is a shame that &quot;youth is wasted on the young&quot;. A happy person is truely one who is content with what they have today and is happy for their friends in what their friends have.

RATTLINRAM
11-25-2002, 12:02 PM
Well,,,,,, sorry to say fellas,,,,,,, I did get rattled<br>I just went out and put a For Sale sign on RATTLIN. I'm going to start looking for a small block gasser to pull my 30' 10,000lb. 5er. ::) ,,,,,,,,, Yeah,,,,,,, RIGHT!.....Like that's gonna happen [laugh] [laugh]<br><br>I'll never own another gasoline powered truck again! ;D<br><br>

pwabbott
11-25-2002, 12:24 PM
Well, yeah. So does my 4.6L. It won't snap your neck pulling a 8000 pound trailer. It goes from 0-70, but if you're looking at a stopwatch, it'll run down. I really don't care what the 0-60 speed is, as long as it's not losing speed when I get to the hills. My gasser gets 11+mpg on the highway towing and 22+ solo, so I'm happy with it. Can't see spending 4000 on a diesel. Sorry.


How many believe that a 4.6L gasser will pull an 8000# trailer in the hills of California without slowing down? I have some great homesites to sell in Florida, step right up, no shoving. [laugh] [laugh]

That 4.6L has about 230 lb-ft torque max from factory as I recall.

P Kennedy
11-25-2002, 01:33 PM
Boys we may have managed this one poorly, with a little thought he should have been invited to a pull off. He claims to have been looking for the truth in why we run diesel trucks, and we should have given it to him in the form of a hill climb. Let him pick the load, a mutual hill site and of course some tech equipment eg: electronic timers and video equipment. The diesel boys and their bragging would then be called a sanctioned technical event with documentation and visual proof in which we would throw a copy of the video and timing results free to the loser so as not to exploit his misfortune. His absolute need for proof to spend that beloved extra 4000 bucks would be totally a personal decision not technical and as they say the rest would be HISTORY. PK

Lary Ellis (Top)
11-25-2002, 01:40 PM
Don't confuse the issue with the actual facts! He does not want to hear it. ;D <br> The answer is simple. He spent all that money on his gasser and now regrets it so bad he is trying convince himself he did right by jumping on us.<br> His pain is obvious, and his attempt to make himself feel better by talking trash is even more apparent.<br> I feel sorry for the guy but he made his choice, I sure didn't talk him into it. He got there on his own and he will have to get out of it the same way.

P Kennedy
11-25-2002, 01:54 PM
You are right I was just playing like we used to do at the drag strip, it is the old put your money where your mouth is ploy. Basiclly I believe what you stated is probably the closest to the truth he has spent his money and cant afford to undo his boo-boo, it is unfortunate but like the rest of us learning from mistakes taught us lots. The school of T&amp;E is like any other the graduates dont all emerge at the same age nor do we ever stop learning??? PK

bennydodge
11-25-2002, 04:13 PM
Hey Seerae88, my company truck is a 97 F150 with a 4.6L and there is NO WAY this truck compares to my Cummins. I guarantee you will not be able to pull your 8,000lb Seerae through the mountains here in Colorado at any speed over 50mph. NO WAY. And as for mileage I get 15 to 17 when towing(depending on my speed) and 20 to 21 empty. When towing I set the cruise on 70 or 75mph with A/C blowing; temp never exceeds 190deg. I never lose any speed on hills and I never have to turn the A/C off. Plus my Cummins will still be pulling when you're on your third rebuild. If you don't believe me I'd be more than happy to show in person(Denver area)<br><br><br>Listen guys I drive one those 4.6L turds everyday, and yes it does deliver 21 mpg and respectable acceleration, but doesn't pull worth a ****. That's a fact. <br><br>I've pulled with gassers big and small and nothing pulls like a diesel(especially in this elevation). Especially a Cummins!!<br><br>Long live The King

Wilber1
11-25-2002, 07:33 PM
[yuk] What's all this crap got to do with using OD while towing? What a waste of time.

RATTLINRAM
11-25-2002, 09:08 PM
<br> [yuk] What's all this crap got to do with using OD while towing? What a waste of time. <br><br><br>You're right Nick,<br> The topic did get a little off track. However, I think there was some good information and with that said,,,,, any other opinions regarding the subject: Using OD while towing?

DPG
11-25-2002, 09:31 PM
I use it all the time with my 11k fiver, as long as I keep the rpms above 1600. I drop below that, I punch out the OD button until I can get back up to speed. (I've got 4:10 gears)