Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
11-04-2003, 08:07 PM
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Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
I'm looking for some serious science in regards to turbochargers on diesel engines. I know quite a bit about turbos on gas engines so I know all about int/ext wastegates, IC's, BOV's, boost control etc.
I'm looking for really how one goes about sizing them to match the engine and what you are trying to do. Theory into sequential twins like turbine housing, turbine wheel sizes and compressor wheel sizes.
I'm looking for really how one goes about sizing them to match the engine and what you are trying to do. Theory into sequential twins like turbine housing, turbine wheel sizes and compressor wheel sizes.
11-05-2003, 10:21 AM
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Re:Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
There is not a ton of difference the sizing. The rpm range is lower, but pressure ratio is nearly always higher.
RPM and pressure ratio are your main concerns for turbo sizing in a diesel. Of course what the intent of the vehicle. More RPM uses more cfm of air. More pressure ratio needs more cfm of air as well.
Sizing twin turbos to work is another topic altogether. Elevation the truck runs at is considered.
The best action I could say to take is to contact the guys that have worked on multiple set-ups for their input.
Pius of Bell turbo in Stockton Cali is a good source.
There is also good material on turbines and radial compressors everywhere you can buy books. The technology is the same for a multi-stage turbo fan as it is for compound turbos.
If the science is really what you want to learn, if not already get grounded in thermodynamics, airflow, etc as a baseline.
The science of how it all works is why I like it myself. I have been through the ringer on the baseline technologies and now have taken to design of compressor and turbines myself using software and CFD. I currently run a package called BladeGen.
It is the coolest thing to model a compressor wheel in real time and see what the changes in the blade tip height, size, etc. do to the pressure ratio and efficiency.
Unfortunantly most of the real breakthroughs in turbochargers have been made 30 years ago.
Finally, the NACA documents that have been recently de-classified by the Gov is a great source for all kinds of turbo technology. it will blow you away what we were doing 40-50 and even 60 years ago with turbines. All the material is free as well.
Don~
RPM and pressure ratio are your main concerns for turbo sizing in a diesel. Of course what the intent of the vehicle. More RPM uses more cfm of air. More pressure ratio needs more cfm of air as well.
Sizing twin turbos to work is another topic altogether. Elevation the truck runs at is considered.
The best action I could say to take is to contact the guys that have worked on multiple set-ups for their input.
Pius of Bell turbo in Stockton Cali is a good source.
There is also good material on turbines and radial compressors everywhere you can buy books. The technology is the same for a multi-stage turbo fan as it is for compound turbos.
If the science is really what you want to learn, if not already get grounded in thermodynamics, airflow, etc as a baseline.
The science of how it all works is why I like it myself. I have been through the ringer on the baseline technologies and now have taken to design of compressor and turbines myself using software and CFD. I currently run a package called BladeGen.
It is the coolest thing to model a compressor wheel in real time and see what the changes in the blade tip height, size, etc. do to the pressure ratio and efficiency.
Unfortunantly most of the real breakthroughs in turbochargers have been made 30 years ago.
Finally, the NACA documents that have been recently de-classified by the Gov is a great source for all kinds of turbo technology. it will blow you away what we were doing 40-50 and even 60 years ago with turbines. All the material is free as well.
Don~
11-05-2003, 08:46 PM
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Re:Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
That bell turbo from CA looks like it would be a good source.
There is another bell in the turbo industry. It took me a while to find info on the one in CA. One individuals site had his 2g pulling truck on it and it also runs deep into the 12's and that was on an H2E!
Found it
http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/B52XBM8FL8BC.html
There is another bell in the turbo industry. It took me a while to find info on the one in CA. One individuals site had his 2g pulling truck on it and it also runs deep into the 12's and that was on an H2E!
Found it
http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/B52XBM8FL8BC.html
11-06-2003, 08:14 PM
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Re:Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
MNISB: Yeah that is my good buddy Adam's truck from Novato ,CA...he is the one that taught me alot about high-performance diesels back in the day.I was there at Sears Point Raceway to witness the 12.67 run he made,what a blast! ;D..I rode in that truck when it had only 590 HP and a 5-speed NV4500..WOW..sideways at 60 mph on dry ground 
...now he is up to around 700 HP with a set of Pius's {Bell Turbo} twins and an automatic from B-D ...I ran a Pius built H2e turbo with a 12cm housing on it for awhile and was extremly impressed with the top end,of course i did not have the fuel to spool it very well at the time,but nonetheless---he is THE MAN when it comes to designing a good turbo match. The best way to connect with him since he is so busy is at his shop where he will get in depth with you as to what your goals are for your truck,very cool and knowledgable man--best in the business IMHO If you want the number, PM me.. 
...now he is up to around 700 HP with a set of Pius's {Bell Turbo} twins and an automatic from B-D ...I ran a Pius built H2e turbo with a 12cm housing on it for awhile and was extremly impressed with the top end,of course i did not have the fuel to spool it very well at the time,but nonetheless---he is THE MAN when it comes to designing a good turbo match. The best way to connect with him since he is so busy is at his shop where he will get in depth with you as to what your goals are for your truck,very cool and knowledgable man--best in the business IMHO If you want the number, PM me..
11-07-2003, 10:08 AM
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Re:Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
Look here for a good explanation of how the turbos work and some excellent calculations.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
11-07-2003, 02:15 PM
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Re:Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
Woo Hoo another turbo thread to play in.
Sizing the turbo's for a sequential setup is a pain, and almost impossible when using Holset turbo's.....there is just no reference material on their turbos.
When I went at designing a sequential setup, I started with one HUGE assumption....a Holset HX40 compressor is very close to a Garrett T-66 Compressor.
Now I just need $5K to build the thing!
Sizing the turbo's for a sequential setup is a pain, and almost impossible when using Holset turbo's.....there is just no reference material on their turbos.
When I went at designing a sequential setup, I started with one HUGE assumption....a Holset HX40 compressor is very close to a Garrett T-66 Compressor.
Now I just need $5K to build the thing!
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11-11-2003, 11:15 AM
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Re:Turbochargers and diesel engines. Tech Nerds Please
[quote author=Smoke Dog link=board=8;threadid=22010;start=0#msg206979 date=1068221329]
Look here for a good explanation of how the turbos work and some excellent calculations.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
[/quote]
I have seen that site and have crunched my own numbers when I did the car. It is one of the best sites for basic turbo theory. Getting the pressure ratio right for a diesel and sizing twins is'nt covered.
Look here for a good explanation of how the turbos work and some excellent calculations.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
[/quote]
I have seen that site and have crunched my own numbers when I did the car. It is one of the best sites for basic turbo theory. Getting the pressure ratio right for a diesel and sizing twins is'nt covered.
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