Casey Balvert

Our 2003 CTD EMS First Response truck is on its third replacement lift pump. The service adviser is telling me that the vibration makes these things break down. Sounds a bit far fetched but maybe there is some truth to it as now DC is putting them in the fuel tanks. I know that occasionally I will see a third gen lift pump problem posted but they seem pretty rare. Anyone else hear of this vibration issue with the lift pumps? DC is supposed to be coming out with a fix for this. Anyone hear of that? At least it was still under warrantee.

Casey

torquefan

Everyone I know with a 3rd gen truck has had the lift pump replaced. Somebody suggested it was our poor quality fuel in Canada, but I think that's crap. I've never seen a failed electric lift pump on a PowerStroke. I think a Ford lift pump retrofit might be a good substitute on our trucks, if someone had some ingenuity.

DSLRammin

I've had 1 go on me and my old man had 2 go on him.
We both had boxes on and thought that helped the problem but I doubt you have a box in you First Response Truck. It does sound like more of us North the the border are having problems. Bad fuel? I know that all our failures were in the middle of summer with temps reaching the 30's. Lift pump in tank will not see the temps others do near the engine. Who knows, botom line, poor design.

gsdog1

LP's have been notorisouly bad on the Dodge trucks ever since the 24 valve has been under the hood. This is my third 24 valve CTD, and I am already planning on replacing the LP in this one with a reasonable, reliable fix - that won't be coming from DC. Good thing is there isn't a VP-44 under the hood of this truck.

There's an absolute ton of info out there on this problem, and I won't even try and summarize it all. Practically every theory you can imagine, and some that even a wild imagination would have problems with has been researched.

Also, there have been on-going threads on several site documenting all kinds of correspondence trying to persuade DC, Cummins, and Carter to do something about it. Well here we are, and here we are.

Lastly, I honeslty don't know what your insurance company or the EMS commander is going to say about anything aftermarket going on an EMS vehicle. There are a couple of firefighters and paramedics on the site here that could probably be more help along those lines. Just everytime I read about an EMS type vehicle, it better be stock right down to the floormats.

Matt

nickleinonen

does the ford have an in take lift pump? [like the 05's do???]

my lift pump seems to be fine on mine.... running on "poor" canadian fuel

Casey Balvert

The truck is bone stock. However it idles a LOT. When the first pump was replaced the dealer blamed it on Shell fuel. Well, we quit using Shell and the pumps are still failing. Problem is that we cannot afford breakdowns and we are looking at an after market pump as a solution until DC comes up with a fix. We are buying four more vehicles in the next month or so but they probably will not be Dodges. I was the one that promoted the Dodge as a Response vehicle and I am now having to do the backstroke with my boss. The ambulance fleet is 100% Ford Powerstrokes and we don't have this kind of problem with them.

In my own truck, I have been using Stanadyne in case in is a lubricity issue but I really doubt that is the problem. I tow heavy and except for the ring and pinion the truck has been super reliable. Hopefully DC will step up to the plate soon with a fix.

Casey

Kyle Graham

Try a secondary pressure pump I have one on my truck for the last year my truck get's ran real hard and I am maintaining pressure my lift pump start's my truck and when oil pressure reaches 50 psi my secondary pump turns on

torquefan

The Fords went to the electric lift pump about the time when the Super Duty body style came out, and it is an inline pump, on the frame rail.

gsdog1

I really hate to hear of this type of situation. I certainly feel for you in terms of the position that you are in at work.

I would highly encourage you to write DC, Cummins, and Carter and relate these facts to them. They need to hear this. Especially about the LP's being so unreliable on a vehicle that is used to help save lives. Not to mention that they are now, apparently, out of the running on making more sales to your department.

It also might be interesting to get Shell involved in the conversation as well. I would tell the story to them and get their response, and add that to what you send the others.

I would also suggest that you try and loop in some of the firefighters and EMS people who are on this site. I have seen other posts similar to this in the "General" section.

The concept of going aftermarket has some serious downfalls. If the vehicle were to fail in any type of emergency response, and it is even remotely possible that the aftermarket product could in any way be contrived as a contributing factor in the failure, there could be serious consequences involved. Particularly for the person(s) who made the decision to use the product as well as implemented it.

It really is disheartening. Not to mention that this isn't the first time issues with the LP's have been brought up. Yes, I realize that it is about money. Save "X" amount of dollars per unit, multiply that by the number of units sold, and the grand total forces part of a best fit solution.

For a few dollars more these engines could be bullet proof. It's sad.

Also, don't hold your breath on what a service writer has said in terms of a DC fix. They have had numerous opportunities to get this right since the 98.5's hit the street. No recalls, no TSB's, nothing.

BTW - I started using Stanadyne PF year around in my last truck, and am continuiing the practice in this truck.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do, please keep us posted.

Matt

Sorehead

torquefan Wrote.

"Everyone I know with a 3rd gen truck has had the lift pump replaced. Somebody suggested it was our poor quality fuel in Canada, but I think that's crap. I've never seen a failed electric lift pump on a PowerStroke. I think a Ford lift pump retrofit might be a good substitute on our trucks, if someone had some ingenuity."


I don't know any one who has had one replaced. But then temp. might have some thing to do with it.

AaronT

I do not know anyone that has had a lift pump replaced either. I do use the "Timmix" formula with 10W non detergent oil for lubrication in the fuel though and engine is quieter.

Geico266

I TOTALLY agree! I have long thought that vibration is the MAIN cause for premature LP failure. If you take a stock LP apart you will see how delicate they really are, and to bolt this delicate pump to a vibrating diesel engine makes no sence to me.

I TOTALLY agree with the service tech.

Have him install a new lift pump from Diesle Products. http://www.dieselpp.com/ Click on the "NEW PUMP" link on the top of the page.

AKram

I would keep looking at the fuel issue. From the surface it seems your area has alot of problems with the lift pumps. When I bought my truck and drove it from Washington state to Alaska I had to stop at the Ft St John B.C. dealer for my first flash. Immediately they suspected the LP and actually replaced it before they realized the flash was required. The mechanic said they go through alot of them due to poor fuel especially from fuel coming from slip tanks and in fact they would void the warranty if the customer used fuel from slip tanks. The old design also has the potential for the diaphram to dry out and is poorly placed. The new design puts it in the tank where it can stay wet and lubricated and pushes the fuel. We do not have many issues here with the pumps so cold weather probably isnt the cause. Also we tend to have extended warm up idle times in the winter so I think vibration may not be a consideration although it may differ due to what body style you have.