I think I've found a good tool for fabbing my own twins.
08-23-2007, 01:54 PM
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I think I've found a good tool for fabbing my own twins.
Guys, I don't own any welding or metalworking tools aside from a small grinder and a die grinder and such. So if you're like me and wanting to fab twins and have little to no welding skill or experience, then it's time to go welder shopping.
I'm looking at lower-cost MIG setups, and I like the versatility. But I came across an "oldie but goodie" that might be worth considering.
It's an oxyfuel setup called the DHC torch, AKA the Henrob AKA Dillon AKA Cobra torch. Anyway, most of you welding-experienced types already know of the beast, but us newbies probably haven't.
What caught my attention about this was the clean welds on exhaust tubing. I've read many posts here about how hard it is to get the twins plumbing welded up without the "dingleberries" inside the tubing.
Here's some pics of exhaust done with this torch:
Now, as a novice a look at two things here: the lack of ugliness on the inside of the tubing, but the fact that complete weld penetration looks to have occurred.
The bead on the outside looks pretty decent, too...
Any comments from those of you who have used this or have "been there, done that?"
Thanks.
Justin
I'm looking at lower-cost MIG setups, and I like the versatility. But I came across an "oldie but goodie" that might be worth considering.
It's an oxyfuel setup called the DHC torch, AKA the Henrob AKA Dillon AKA Cobra torch. Anyway, most of you welding-experienced types already know of the beast, but us newbies probably haven't.
What caught my attention about this was the clean welds on exhaust tubing. I've read many posts here about how hard it is to get the twins plumbing welded up without the "dingleberries" inside the tubing.
Here's some pics of exhaust done with this torch:
Now, as a novice a look at two things here: the lack of ugliness on the inside of the tubing, but the fact that complete weld penetration looks to have occurred.
The bead on the outside looks pretty decent, too...
Any comments from those of you who have used this or have "been there, done that?"
Thanks.
Justin
08-23-2007, 02:21 PM
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I have used a similar setup before. It takes longer than MIG welding but does a fine job. It does make a nicer weld on the inside as long as you don't get it too hot and burn thru. It just takes more time and more skill in my opinion. IIRC the cost of that Henrob setup isn't that much less expensive than a small MIG welder. The cost of the oxy-acetelene will push you over the cost of a decent welder.
Joe
Joe
08-23-2007, 04:16 PM
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If your worried about using a mig there are a few ways to prevent dingleberries (as they have been so eloquently called 
). The way I have done it is to cut a small slice of pipe and then take a section out of it until it will pinch together and slip inside the pieces you want to weld. I usually bevel the edges inside of the pipe and tack weld the ring back together as well. Another way is to maching a small piece of steel that will accept one pipe on each side. Both ways work and do well to prevent burn through.
). The way I have done it is to cut a small slice of pipe and then take a section out of it until it will pinch together and slip inside the pieces you want to weld. I usually bevel the edges inside of the pipe and tack weld the ring back together as well. Another way is to maching a small piece of steel that will accept one pipe on each side. Both ways work and do well to prevent burn through.
08-23-2007, 04:35 PM
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I weld everyday its my job.(but honestly im no good at it lol) but for the inside of the pipe splatter shield spray works wonders. also a proper prepared joint and the right heat range and wire speed a mig can weld clean without a problem. We had a few projects come thru the shop long ago for food grade stainless. Welds must be continous and no grinding allowed. It was murder for me (just starting out years ago). But the one thing i learned is make sure to set your welder up correctly, and then fine tune it, ensure your travel speed and angles are correct and with practice it will come out great. The DHC setup is slow but works well. If you dont fabricate alot of things it is a perfect setup. Hope all works out for ya. Oh yeah is that just dust inside the pipe or shavings from cutting?
08-23-2007, 04:43 PM
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Slow is fine with me. I'm just an amateur hobbyist.
What the torch setup gives me is versatility. With the right flux or rod, I can weld anything and cut steel up to 1 in plate. To get the same versatility, I'd have to setup a mig for both aluminum and steel, keep multiple wires, multiple spools, different liners (or a spool gun), etc etc. I'd also need a plasma cutter to do what this torch can. The torch is simple and it works, and saves me money over multiple pieces of specialized equipment.
The low gas pressures of this torch setup (4psi each) should make gas costs low, and the soft flame makes it easier for a beginner like me to learn without burning through.
The torch also makes softer welds that aren't as hard. You can file the welds instead of grind them. That tells me the welds would also be less likely to crack and be brittle.
That's why 4130 chromoly tubing is almost always torch welded in for aircraft hobbyists: the MIG or TIG weld is much more likely to crack unless it's annealed somehow.
JMO
What the torch setup gives me is versatility. With the right flux or rod, I can weld anything and cut steel up to 1 in plate. To get the same versatility, I'd have to setup a mig for both aluminum and steel, keep multiple wires, multiple spools, different liners (or a spool gun), etc etc. I'd also need a plasma cutter to do what this torch can. The torch is simple and it works, and saves me money over multiple pieces of specialized equipment.
The low gas pressures of this torch setup (4psi each) should make gas costs low, and the soft flame makes it easier for a beginner like me to learn without burning through.
The torch also makes softer welds that aren't as hard. You can file the welds instead of grind them. That tells me the welds would also be less likely to crack and be brittle.
That's why 4130 chromoly tubing is almost always torch welded in for aircraft hobbyists: the MIG or TIG weld is much more likely to crack unless it's annealed somehow.
JMO
08-23-2007, 04:52 PM
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Hohn, looks good. I also like your use of body panel clamps to hold the tubing together, I have never seen them used for that before, gives me bad ideas.
I've got the Henrob, like it, I also want to pick up a Meco Midget for when I do thinner panels.
You may want to check it out, the place I am going to use when its time to buy is http://www.tinmantech.com Great place to spend money I don't have.....
I've got the Henrob, like it, I also want to pick up a Meco Midget for when I do thinner panels.
You may want to check it out, the place I am going to use when its time to buy is http://www.tinmantech.com Great place to spend money I don't have.....
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08-23-2007, 07:38 PM
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i am also a welder like some of these guys i have dealt with alot of different issues with it and one i see that you might want to check into. on the pipe that will be holding your bottom turbo to your top turbo it needs to be heavier pipe than the rest and you may not get real good penetration. just something to check into hope everything works out for you
08-23-2007, 08:20 PM
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Hohn, looks good. I also like your use of body panel clamps to hold the tubing together, I have never seen them used for that before, gives me bad ideas.
I've got the Henrob, like it, I also want to pick up a Meco Midget for when I do thinner panels.
You may want to check it out, the place I am going to use when its time to buy is http://www.tinmantech.com Great place to spend money I don't have.....
I've got the Henrob, like it, I also want to pick up a Meco Midget for when I do thinner panels.
You may want to check it out, the place I am going to use when its time to buy is http://www.tinmantech.com Great place to spend money I don't have.....
I guess I was unclear that I am not fabbing. These are pics of someone else's work using the torch.
I have no welding skills at all. But I can draw Ligers..
08-23-2007, 09:59 PM
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I am a Union Pipefitter by trade so welding is an everyday thing for me. I just call this process gas welding. It was used alot in the field when electric welding was newer. I actually got to learn it from my father in law who is a retired fitter. You can weld all of your heavy wall piping with it also, just dont do it in one pass, use multiple passes called stringers.
You also said it is used alot on cro-moly. I believe you, but when we do cro-moly we heli-arc weld it. We also do whats called a pre-heat to around 400-500 degrees, and then slowly cool it over time. When this is done we usually hire out another company that does pre-heats for a living.
Also, how many people here have tried aluminum welding with a mig? Not that easy, unless you have an aluminum spool gun for the mig machine. The wire is to soft to run through the hose the to the torch.
When people weld steel with a mig welder they usually have the flux corded wire. This is what causes boogers on the inside of the pipe. When you do mig with gasless wire and gas it looks like its been heli-arced (tig).
Hohn, you will do just fine. Just take your time. Remember a grinder is your best friend.
Also, when doing your heavy wall piping grind a bevel on both ends wuth a feather edge (sharp), then leave aproximately a 1/16th gap for penetration. Then do multiple passes to fill it.
I just looked at your pics again. Is that a port-a-band? If it is you have more tool knowledge than most people.
You also said it is used alot on cro-moly. I believe you, but when we do cro-moly we heli-arc weld it. We also do whats called a pre-heat to around 400-500 degrees, and then slowly cool it over time. When this is done we usually hire out another company that does pre-heats for a living.
Also, how many people here have tried aluminum welding with a mig? Not that easy, unless you have an aluminum spool gun for the mig machine. The wire is to soft to run through the hose the to the torch.
When people weld steel with a mig welder they usually have the flux corded wire. This is what causes boogers on the inside of the pipe. When you do mig with gasless wire and gas it looks like its been heli-arced (tig).
Hohn, you will do just fine. Just take your time. Remember a grinder is your best friend.
Also, when doing your heavy wall piping grind a bevel on both ends wuth a feather edge (sharp), then leave aproximately a 1/16th gap for penetration. Then do multiple passes to fill it.
I just looked at your pics again. Is that a port-a-band? If it is you have more tool knowledge than most people.
08-23-2007, 10:09 PM
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08-23-2007, 10:28 PM
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I love my portaband. It is my most favorite tool (besides my miller 304 cc/cv welding machine) in the garage.
Funny thing is I can get them whenever I want. The industry considers them a consumible.
Funny thing is I can get them whenever I want. The industry considers them a consumible.
