converteddzlr

Just read a news article that stated canadian diesel fuel which is currently regulated at a maximum sulphur content of 500ppm (0.05%) has to be reduced further by 2006 to 15ppm (0.0015%). Any ideas on what kind of consequences if any this will have on our beasts??

Dr. Evil

Its gonna make us HAVE to use additives.....

cp

For what? Losing the sulfur is good--it serves no purpose whatsoever in fuel. The only thing bad about ULSD is going to be its cost. It isn't going to be cheap to get to 15ppm.

phox_mulder

It's the process to lower sulpher that is the problem.
It takes away the lubricity of the fuel, leading to more wear on the lift and injection pump.


phox

Dr. Evil

[quote author=cp link=board=8;threadid=21362;start=0#msg200688 date=1066967291]
For what? Losing the sulfur is good--it serves no purpose whatsoever in fuel. The only thing bad about ULSD is going to be its cost. It isn't going to be cheap to get to 15ppm.
[/quote]

Sulphur serves no purpose whatsoever in fuel Really??? Actually high sulphur content is very important. Both the lift pump and VP44 are lubricated by sulphur in the fuel, therefore the much lower sulphur content will be HARD on these parts. Therefore, additives will be necessary.......

cp

Sulfur is not a lubricant. It is a tramp element in hydrocarbon fuel which serves no pupose in either combustion or lubrication. What it does have is the detrimental quality of combining with water to become sulfuric acid. Not a good thing to have in your engine.

In the first round of sulfur reduction (circa 1994?), the first processes by which sulfur was removed from diesel also removed some aromatic compounds which did provide lubrication qualities. That problem was resolved.

Commatoze

Cummins recently issued a press release regarding their desire for a globally standard low sulphur fuel. If you'd like to read it, click here.

Apparently, it's the process of removing the sulphur which reduces the lubricity of the diesel oil, not the level of sulphur.

Dr. Evil

cp,

Are you saying that ultra low sulphur content is going to have NO effect on our trucks?? Are you saying that additives wont be necessary?? I dont think so...and you wont be able to convince me otherwise.

AKDSLDOG

[quote author=Commatoze link=board=8;threadid=21362;start=0#msg200876 date=1067012028]
Cummins recently issued a press release regarding their desire for a globally standard low sulphur fuel. If you'd like to read it, click here.

Apparently, it's the process of removing the sulphur which reduces the lubricity of the diesel oil, not the level of sulphur.
[/quote]

You and Phox are correct! It is the process of removing the sulphur that "dries out" the lube in the fuel. Therefore yes will all be using additives.

cp

[quote author=Dr. Evil link=board=8;threadid=21362;start=0#msg200908 date=1067016449]
cp,

Are you saying that ultra low sulphur content is going to have NO effect on our trucks?? Are you saying that additives wont be necessary?? I dont think so...and you wont be able to convince me otherwise.
[/quote]

What I'm saying is that it will have a positive effect, but OK, I won't try.

The old process of removing sulfur removed the aromatics. This has been corrected. Btw, the aromatics are not even 'lubricants' as such, but the removal of them caused seals and o-rings to shrink, though. This is all detailed very thoroughly if one cares to research it. This 'sulfur removal is a bad thing' urban legend really dies hard.

phox_mulder

[quote author=cp link=board=8;threadid=21362;start=0#msg200820 date=1067006369]
Sulfur is not a lubricant. It is a tramp element in hydrocarbon fuel which serves no pupose in either combustion or lubrication. What it does have is the detrimental quality of combining with water to become sulfuric acid. Not a good thing to have in your engine.
[/quote]

Right, has anyone ever seen sulphur?
It is a yellow powder about the consistency of Bon Ami or Ajax.
I don't want that moving though my fuel system.

It also stinks, think Yellowstone in the summertime.

phox

Lightman

Here we go again. I guess you all missed my ULSD threads a month or two ago. Some folks simply just won't understand the benefits.

For the last time. SULFUR IS NOT A LUBRICANT, PERIOD. It's the process of refining that removes sulfur that also strips some of the fuel's lubricity. ULSD refineries will be adding lubricity additives to make the fuel meet ASTM spec. Again, folks that don't trust in the quality of fuel delivered to them are fully able to put in lubricity and or other additives. I for one will put in additives to be on the safe side.

ULSD will have no effects on our trucks. It's been available in california sold by BP and Arco for a few years already. SULFUR=SOOT. So all you guys that enjoy smoke shows and filling up the windows of poor little old ladies that cut you off, enjoy it while it lasts. ULSD will reduce overall pollution by incredible amounts, and will truly help those who suffer from respiratory ailments. All of those folks with TDI's that have clogging intakes will have zero problems once ULSD rolls around as well. Sweet, they'll have less to whine about! ;D

Another side benefit of ULSD will be more widespread acceptance of diesels. They will no longer be so smoky and sooty, which will make the general public more accepting of diesels. Also we will FINALLY be able to get some of the cool diesel vehicles the europeans have been enjoying for some time. BMW 330D anyone? 220hp and 400lbs torque at 40mpg, in a sporty 3 series. Sign me up. How about that v10 TDI touareg volkswagen with 330hp and 500lbs torque? Bring on the ulsd baby! 8)

cp

Lowering sulfur is a good thing, but it isn't the next best thing to reservoir tips.

For one thing, soot is carbon, not sulfur. There is still going to be soot in diesel exhaust, otherwise there would be no need for particulate traps (which are coming).

Pour enough fuel to any diesel and I guarantee it will smoke--whether there's 15ppm or 5,000 ppm sulfur.

tarpilot

If you want lubricity, run biodiesel as your additive. I don't know who's right here about the sulphur argument, but I can tell you this-biodiesel is nice and slippery, has high cetane, and is 100% fuel.

Lightman

Yes soot is high in carbon, duh. What I meant by sulfur=soot was that the sulfur in the fuel when burned causes the soot. ULSD will have greatly reduced soot/smoke output due to having lower sulfur.

Biodiesel is good stuff, I've burned through about 550 gallons of it this year. It has zero sulfur, which is part of the reason it has such reduced emissions as compared to petro diesel. I've found for the most part pitching biodiesel to the cummins crowd is mostly a losing battle though, as most are pretty resistant to change, or were scared off by cummins statement on biodiesel. Basically cummins hasn't fully tested blends any higher than 5% bio, so they can't recommend anything higher. I ran 100% biodiesel in my TDI for 35k miles, and have run 20% in my mercedes since 2001. Great stuff. To each their own I guess =]