With no block heater????

So, me and a few buddies went snow camping last night. Got back to my truck and my dodge turned over fast, but wouldnt catch. I finally got a jump from a friend, put a tarp around the engine compartment, started my camp stove under my rig and it finally started up.
I have brand new batteries, new starter and its all tuned up. I was holding the throttle at 1/4 like they reccomend.
I was happy with how long it accualy turned over. Just wondering if theres anything i can do to help things along next time??
Is starting fluid ever an option? Would it help if i unpluggled the intake heater and sprayed some in?
other options.
It was dang cold, and i didnt want to screw with my rig. Fun though. [laugh]

It should start no problem. It was -2 in Chicago this morning and my 97 fired right up.
Are both of your grid heaters working? You cant go by the volt gauge in the truck. The easiest way to check them is to have the truck cold, get a multimeter and put one lead on the neg. side of the battery, and the other lead on the grid heater lug on the air horn, then have someone turn the key to on.
You have to check both lugs. It should read somewhere around 10 volts or higher.then have someone turn the key to on.
If only none or only one of them read you need new relays. They are mounted on the drivers side fender under the battery.

You also need to check to see if you have no fuel leaks. Easiest way is to pressurize the system with 10 psi or less of regulated shop air. Just wrap the air hose nozzle with a rag and stick it in the fuel filler. Have someone look for drips.

If your truck doesnt stay primed with fuel (air leaks) it is very hard to start when cold and will smoke ALOT.

If you use starting fluid, make sure you disconnect the grid heaters. If you don't, there is a better than average chance you will remove them from the engine with a big bang! I've used wd-40 and spray it in the port where my boost gauge hooks up. My grid heaters have been gone for 5 years and I carry wd-40 and use it below about 10*F. Works like a champ. Hope this helps. cd

dieselman2300 hit the two most probable causes. I would look into the gridheaters and fuel leaks. The other way to tell whether you have an air leak is if the truck fires up when it has been recently shut down but requires a lot of cranking if it has been off for a while.

There are two other possible but less likely causes. Depending on your fuel and how cold it was, you may have been gelled up but I doubt it. If the truck had power after it started, this is unlikely. Also, your shutdown solenoid may not have been pulling up but it is rare for it then to go and work.

As far as starting fluid goes, it is a bad idea with these engines. The grid heaters can ignite it in the intake and cause an explosion. While it is possible to disconnect the grid heaters and start the truck with ether, there are many of us who have started trucks at -30 unplugged so you should never have to do this. Also, many people that engines can become addicted to ether if you use it a lot.

Well, it was deffinetly getting fuel. It was smoking like a pig. It would sort of catch now and then, but it took a long time to go...then it barely idled for about a minute burning a ton of fuel, and all at once, it smoothed out.
Ill check the heaters. I didnt know there were two.
So just check voltage at both of those connections on top of the grid heater?
If they are getting volts, does that mean they are working?

Well, it was deffinetly getting fuel. It was smoking like a pig. It would sort of catch now and then, but it took a long time to go...then it barely idled for about a minute burning a ton of fuel, and all at once, it smoothed out.
Ill check the heaters. I didnt know there were two.
So just check voltage at both of those connections on top of the grid heater?
If they are getting volts, does that mean they are working?


White smoke and stumbling is also a sign of air in the fuel system.

Yes, check the voltage at both of the lugs on the air horn/air intake. If they are getting voltage, then yes they are working.

I just had one of my relays go out about 2-3 weeks ago. The truck would start, but not easily.

One other thing to check is where the relays are on the fender (under the battery) there are 4 big wires and 4 little wires with rubber 90* boots on them. They have a tendency to fall off.
Also, make sure you have 12 volys to the relays to. If you look at the driver side battery, there are 2 bigger sized wires that run to the relays, you should have 12 volts to the side the wires hook to on the relay. If you dont have 12 volts the fusible link is burned up.

My 94 started right up and it was -2 at the time earlier today. Just bought the truck this morning. 188,700 miles on it.

Anything under 20* and it takes a little throttle to start it up. But if I have my cold fronts in it starts way easier but it doesn't like the real cold without being plugged in.

jimminyc, Where were you, and how cold was it?

Just wanted to post this.
Last night in Chicago the windchills were -30*. I didnt plug the truck in last night because I installed an AIRDOG system yesterday and I wanted to see how easy it would start up in the cold.
Well, I cycled the grid heaters twice and it fired right up in 2-3 seconds.
This was at 6:00am.
This is on my 97 12 valve.

and even easier way to see if your grid heaters are working is waiting untill you truck is cold and go out and start it like after its been sitting for 4-5hrs depending on how cold it is outside and then start it and watch the voltmeter, if it moves up and down its working, i know mine doesn't work cause its pain to start if i don't plug it in when its below 40 out, and when i start my truck the voltmeter goes right up to around 14 and stays there.

and even easier way to see if your grid heaters are working is waiting untill you truck is cold and go out and start it like after its been sitting for 4-5hrs depending on how cold it is outside and then start it and watch the voltmeter, if it moves up and down its working, i know mine doesn't work cause its pain to start if i don't plug it in when its below 40 out, and when i start my truck the voltmeter goes right up to around 14 and stays there.

The trouble with this method is that there are two grid heaters and it only verifies that at least one of them is working. You really need to check both which means using a voltmeter at the grids.

Ok, just checked the voltage. 12V to one, and zero to the other. Must be a Relay issue.

Ok, just checked the voltage. 12V to one, and zero to the other. Must be a Relay issue.


And the thing is, they only come in a pair.[verymad]

People used to say it was a dealer only item, but I found them at rockauto.com under multi-purpose relay.

I then called NAPA and had the cross reference the part# and they had it at the warehouse, got it in about ann hour. There wasnt ANY dealers in Illinois that had the part in stock. It was a 3-6 day order time.

Here are the part #s from rockauto.com
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # RY441


Also check all of the wires at the relays under the driver battery. And also check the 12v feed lines to the relays, they have fusible links in them.


Dealer part # 56026842

Just wanted to post this.
Last night in Chicago the windchills were -30*. I didnt plug the truck in last night because I installed an AIRDOG system yesterday and I wanted to see how easy it would start up in the cold.
Well, I cycled the grid heaters twice and it fired right up in 2-3 seconds.
This was at 6:00am.
This is on my 97 12 valve.

Ditto here. My 24V started in the Chicago cold without being plugged in AND without a second grid heater cycle. They stayed on the full 30sec, though!


How cold was it?

Well, I drove my truck 5 miles North to fill up at the Citgo in Northbrook, and I let it idle while I pumped. After I stuck the nozzle into the filler, I noticed that engine was idling up a bit. I thought, cool-- it's working as it's supposed to (see my APPS thread).

Then the 3cyl-idle kicked in!!! After driving for 5 miles! That's cold!

These are the days where the full synthetic oil sure is nice to have.

I had a bottle of Rotella 10w-30 in the bed of my truck, and I cracked it open for giggles. That oil is rated to a -40 pour point, and it was already the consistency of really thick syrup-- almost like honey!

Dino oil would HAVE to have the engine plugged in at these temps, imo.

JMO

For the heater grid solenoids you can replace them with meyer snow plow solenoids. They are $15 each and most auto stores in snow country carry them in stock. I just put 2 of them in my 97 and they work perfectly.

For the heater grid solenoids you can replace them with meyer snow plow solenoids. They are $15 each and most auto stores in snow country carry them in stock. I just put 2 of them in my 97 and they work perfectly.


Its only $50 for the OEM part from rockauto.com.
You dont need to spend any extra time fabbing up a new bracket, or redoing any of the smaller wiring.

With the stock part it takes less than 30 min. to put the new one in.

Anyways when you find out the relays arent working is when its freezing out. I try not to do any fab work when its this cold out. JMO.

Tony

Another option for the relays is to get some 100A relays from allied electronics for about $15 each. I was able to reuse the old bracket by simply removing the relay then bending the mounting bracket of the new relay around the old bracket. I lost the link to the ones that I have when my computer died but it shouldn't be hard to find at all.

a couple years ago when I still had my 98 12 valve I was in south dakota and spent the night where I couldn't plug my truck in it was -20 and the wind shill made it feel like I was in siberia lol anyways cycled twice and gave it no throttle and it started up in about 5-7 seconds I was pretty impressed (before I started it I was pretty worried) but I've always used non-synthetic oil. I have nothing against synthetic oil but you know how it is once you start buying somthing for years you don't seem to change it's more of a habit I buy rotella

Last night i plugged mine in at about 6. I had let it sit all weekend. about 9 i went out , cycled the heaters, cranked, wouldnt fire. jsut the reason i was firing it up the night before i had to go to work. anyways, 3rd try and it fired.
i really dont think it would have caught if not for plugging it in.

always try plugging in my 97 12v, but during deer season it's not possible. cycle heater twice, press throttle 1/8 way down. usually starts first crank down to zero.

caught several posts from out canadian brethren on how they do it.
take a tiger torch http://shopsourceone.stores.yahoo.net/tigertorch.html
and a 6 foot chimney stove pipe with elbow. point elbow up, directly under oil pan

Well this may sound stupid but you were giving it to much throttle. My 96 does not like 1/4 throttle at temp that low, it will stumble, **** and moan but back it off with just very little pedal and it fires right up. Too much pedal is why it smoked so back the fuel wasnt burning. Next keep backing out of it and you will see what Im talking about. It was around 6-8f last night and I had no issues.

I've started my 94 at -20F with dino oil and no plugged in. It took some cranking and some babying to keep it running but it started.

Its only $50 for the OEM part from rockauto.com.
You dont need to spend any extra time fabbing up a new bracket, or redoing any of the smaller wiring.

With the stock part it takes less than 30 min. to put the new one in.

Anyways when you find out the relays arent working is when its freezing out. I try not to do any fab work when its this cold out. JMO.

Tony

30 seconds with a side cutter and they are ready to install, no wiring mods needed . Pluse you don't have to order them. They are in stock at most auto stores. From the time I found out what was wrong it was 2 hrs later and I had her ready to go.

thanks... I'll have to remember this, if/when mine goes out.

For the heater grid solenoids you can replace them with meyer snow plow solenoids. They are $15 each and most auto stores in snow country carry them in stock. I just put 2 of them in my 97 and they work perfectly.

30 seconds with a side cutter and they are ready to install, no wiring mods needed . Pluse you don't have to order them. They are in stock at most auto stores. From the time I found out what was wrong it was 2 hrs later and I had her ready to go.

I just had Napa cross reference the number. They had it at the local warehouse. I got the relays in about an hour.
Your telling me they just bolt right up?
I have always read that you need to make a custom bracket to get them to mount.
Your also saying you dont need to put any ring crimps on for the smaller wires?
I know for sure that it takes longer than replacing the OEM part.

BTW, I looked into doing it this way when one of my relays went out. I stopped at the local snow plow retailer, looked at the relays and just said forget it, I'll get the stock ones.[coffee]

I've started my '97 not plugged in after is sat at a high temperature of -34F / -37C for 8 hours. (windchill like... -60F...)

It only happened once and I'd never want to do it again, but it worked...

I just had Napa cross reference the number. They had it at the local warehouse. I got the relays in about an hour.
Your telling me they just bolt right up?
I have always read that you need to make a custom bracket to get them to mount.
Your also saying you dont need to put any ring crimps on for the smaller wires?
I know for sure that it takes longer than replacing the OEM part.

BTW, I looked into doing it this way when one of my relays went out. I stopped at the local snow plow retailer, looked at the relays and just said forget it, I'll get the stock ones.[coffee]

That is what I am saying. The part number is SNO5794k . I got mine at a bumper to pumper auto parts store. I had to trim one bracket on one solenoid so that it would not interfear with the other solenoid. I used the holes in the fenderwell from the original solenoids along with the original screws. I had to install them in a V pattern to use the existing 3 holes. the two solenoid brackets just overlap each other so that you have one screw hold the two brackets in the center. All the wires went right on with no mods at all. The only difference is that the terminals face to the center of the truck instead of straight up like the original solenoids.

That is what I am saying. The part number is SNO5794k . I got mine at a bumper to pumper auto parts store. I had to trim one bracket on one solenoid so that it would not interfear with the other solenoid. I used the holes in the fenderwell from the original solenoids along with the original screws. I had to install them in a V pattern to use the existing 3 holes. the two solenoid brackets just overlap each other so that you have one screw hold the two brackets in the center. All the wires went right on with no mods at all. The only difference is that the terminals face to the center of the truck instead of straight up like the original solenoids.

Different strokes for different folks.
I guess:rolleyes:

I agree that it is a pain to have to modify relays to make it work. These relays will drop right in and the wiring does not change. The only thing you need to do is bend the bracket around the bracket where your old relays were mounted. I replaced them in about 15 minutes.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=576-3008&MPN=120%2D902&R=576%2D3008&sid=479532002CB2E17F

I just picked one up from Grainger
# 6C017
Ill try it tonight to see if it works.
Shout take minor fab to make it work.
Looks just like the one i pulled out.

My '97 has a twin ram manifold and only one working grid heater. Still starts like a champ here in the chicago suburbs, just only on the front three cylinders. Takes about 5-7 seconds to pick up the other 3 cylinders and quit smoking altogether. And thats with regular old Rotella 15w-40.

Even my tired old 6.2 never had trouble starting below 0°F, and my 6.5TD started almost as well as my 12valve, it would fire faster but smoke longer.

past week it's been -23 celsius or colder here, i don't plug in my 98 12v and rarely even wait for the "wait to start" light, just lay my foot on the throttle, and she starts right away....stutters for a few secs, but smooths out and idles really low till it warms up

Speaking of cold oil you can get small silicone heating pads that you stick onto your engine oil pan or even tranny oil pan. Works great to take the chill out of the oil. You can also get magnetic ones that can be installed only when need. These make a huge difference for diesels on cold days.

I'm having a hard time "seeing" what your talking about. Is there some way I could get some pics of the 2 grid heaters and their power lugs.
I'm just trying to make sure I get the right things checked.

Thanks guys.

I'm having a hard time "seeing" what your talking about. Is there some way I could get some pics of the 2 grid heaters and their power lugs.
I'm just trying to make sure I get the right things checked.

Thanks guys.

If you are asking where the grids are at, they are in the air horn.
If you look at the front of the engine where the air horn is, you will see 2 BIG wires. That is the grid heater lugs.