shemp47

Appears that my initial assessment of the injector situation with the Cummins may be correct. Much evidence is mounting to suggest that it could be the same situation with the Bosch injectors that Ford had with the new 6.0 Powerstrokes and GM with the Duramax.

Here is a theory I am beginning to assemble from what I have observed:

I suspect as with my 04.5. that basically the injectors stick, and leak, causing uneven firing and Increased engine noise among other things, Because they leak carbon builds up on the tips fouling injectors and causing them to just spray a stream of fuel that causes hot spots that can damage the engine. After shutdown they can leak enough fuel in the combustion chamber, that if is has accumulated on the downward side of the intake or compression stroke that it hydro locks the cylinder. Possibly bending a pushrod or cracking rings.

This is exactly why manufacturers do not recommend using starting fluid in a diesel engine. In Alaska I saw many diesel engines suffer bent pushrods and damaged rings, pushrods and connecting rods when in the extreme cold starting fluid was used. The tolerances between the piston and top of the combustion chamber are very very tight in a diesel engine, and it only takes a few CCs of liquid to damage an engine. My engine developed a definite “tick” after its apparent Hydro lock events and a deep knock that has remained after injector replacements, therefore I suspect that it may have suffered a bent pushrod and even some piston damage. This might also explain why other owners still have the tick and knock even after injector replacements.

I would also consider that it could be possible that one or more injectors that show good or over 100% on the power balance test are actually leaking and delivering too much fuel in some modes causing knocking and the excessive smoke at start-up. Also, it would consider that it could be a mechanical issue with the suspect injectors themselves might be the cause of the mechanical “tick”, that sounds like a bent push rod or faulty lifter. However, I would guess that the tick would go away if that injector was turned off.

I experienced a couple of failed injectors with an 01’ Durmax as well as Ford Diesels, and in those cases experienced similar campaigns of deception and ignorance.

Three years later GM finally addressed the Duramax injector Issue claiming that they will replace all fuel injectors on effected engines, but will only do so on the 01’ models. From what I have heard GM does not make it easy to get the replacements, and they claim that it was only those models that were effected but the problem is evident in other later models, and I have seen evidence to suggest GM may be practicing the same routine of denial and deception for owners of later model Duramaxs’.

From what I have heard of the Ford issue, Ford has improved injectors for the 03’s but there appears to still be issues. Ford claims to have addressed the issue but I have heard that is it is even more difficult now get Ford to accecpt and correct any suspected Injector issues as they appear to assume that no fuel injector problems can exist period.

I see much evidence to suggest a widespread problem for owners of the common rail Dodge Cummins, and suspect that Dodge may have a hot potato cooking, also that Dodge may be in a “deny and deceive” mode in regards to the problems many report. My guess is that once the problem grows to a point of Class Action or general negative public they will go to the next step by implementing a procedure that will address the problem in he least expensive method possible and possibly only to the extent that it addresses public opinion and provides some breathing room for them to say they corrected the problem. that could something similar to the method they employed to address the Soft Cummins plug issues by not replacing the engines or soft plugs, but saying we have a test to determine if they are bad or not and that for some vehicles excessive smoke, knocking and rough idle is normal.

Something to consider:

Currently if you have a problem and meet the requirements for a lemon law you may have recourse, but once a manufacture claims they have addressed the problem or that a problem condition is normal they can assert that your problem is not a problem, and in effect side-step the Lemon Law, leaving you no recourse but to prove them wrong in court, or sell the vehicle to some unsuspecting soul.

I have experienced this very scenario with a Ford SUV that had ‘Piston Slap” as well as two friends who just when through it, one with a an 03’ 6.0 Powerstroke for bad Injectors and low power, smoking and rough running, and the other with an GM gas truck that has piston slap so bad it sounds like a rod is coming through the block. Both cases Ford and GM claim that the issues are not problems and are normal. GM did give my friend an extended 100,000 mile warranty on the engine, but with such a knock his chances of selling it for as much as one that does not knock are limited.

For now I am implementing the Buy-back processes on my 600 Cummins Ram as it has been in 5 times and still smokes, knocks and idles rough in addition to having the soft plug issues that they seem to have no means to definitively resolve. It also has the, driveline vibration, leaking door seals and other issues.

Despite having a real need for the vehicle and wanting to like the truck I have been down a similar path and gotten burned in the long run when I trusted an auto manufacture to place my interest above his. Experience suggests that when it comes to the bottom line, auto manufactures consider your bottom below their bottom line,

wv smoker

A friend of my son just went through all of that with an 04. The lemon law was never mentioned and DC bought the truck back and replaced it wiyh an 05. He was just charged for the mileage driven (about $2500.), and got a better truck than he had before. Don't know the exact details but I will find out. He lives in the DC (Washington) area, but not sure what state it was purchased in.......Sounds like technology gone awry.....Think I like my 12valve better every day.........

Berak

Where ???

One vehicle? I've seen very few problem engines reported here that were not overfueled.

shemp47

Same vehicle and no mods what so ever. Most of the miles are freeway commutes of aobut 200 miles so I don't think excessive idleing has anything to do with it.

shemp47

In addition to similar posts on other sites you might look at some of the 70 plus replies to my original post: https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=54900

Berak

I see a few guys with real injector problems and a few more with "pining" and "noise" complaints. We really can't classify them as injector problems until more is known. I think your assuming everyone who complains about pinging or knocking is having an injector failure. That is a little leap. My 2003 has 30000 miles so far and runs like it did the day I took it off the lot, as it seems most do.

GrandpasRam

Mine too. I've had no issues with mine for 28000 miles; then the dealer did an oil change and siezed the engine. I now have a new engine and turbocharger (at no cost to me), but the injectors are the original injectors and are still working just fine in the new engine. Don't go bashing the dealer, the did right for me and have always done a good job for everything I've had them do on all my vehicles; the tech made a simple, albeit expensive, mistake - once in five years.

truckjunkie

My truck was super quiet, with the exception of a little bit of what I assumed to be normal diesel 'clatter' between 1500 and 2000 rpms. I towed a small trailer from St. Louis to SoCal and back - trip was approx 4200 miles. After that trip I've gained about 2 mpg (according to the overhead - got the reflash done before I left, but I haven't hand caluclated it yet), but the truck does seem do be a bit louder, i.e I can hear the diesel clatter a little more now. There's no smoking at startup, and it idles smoothly - this sounds 'normal' doesn't it? Truck now has about 7500 miles on it.

I'm getting paranoid reading all of these posts - I think my main problem is that this truck is so quiet compared to my 97 Ford PowerStroke that every little thing I hear I wonder if it's an injector knock or if it's just diesel clatter.

RamWheelsBy4

I agree that maybe just the normal diesel noises that happen with engine breakin are a lot of what people hear.

In my case the noises did not bother me. It was the changes that happened over a relative short period of time. The rough idle, the white smoke on cold startup that got worse over time and sounds at low end that just were not there for the first 7500 miles.

Dealer kept the truck overnight and agreed there was a problem.

After diagnostics/tests dictated by Star they replaced #6 injector. Now I am happy again. The symtpoms and abnormal noises are gone. Truck runs much better and mpg is up as a result. No more smoke, noises or misfires on any startup condition.

There are some stock engines with bad injectors, I just happen to have one.

spudman

as i understand it the common rail fuel system concept has been around since the late 1940's and the reason that it was not extensively employed until recently was because they could not completely stop the injection event ie: the injector would drip. just my theory but mabye with all the advances they have made we still aren't quite there yet with equality of all the injectors

Hoss

I really need to quit reading threads like this. Every time I do I start doubting whether my truck is okay or not.

Compared to the gassers I've always driven, my truck has both rough idle and clatter. I think that's just the way diesels are. One thing I have NOT noticed is smoke at start-up. I guess that's a good thing.

shemp47

Thanks for that important comment..

I did a quick search and found some interesting information about Common Rail fuel system problems..

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/040929.htm

"With a common rail system, if there is a leak in any fuel line or one injector develops a leak either internal or external, all the injectors are affected. It takes only the smallest leak to cause a "No Start" condition because no fuel pressure can be generated to allow the injectors to spray. With the Pumpe Duse system, a problem at one injector is isolated from the others.

One thing is common to all the current high pressure diesel injection systems: they require clean fuel. Even the smallest foreign particles in the fuel or any water will cause wear on the injectors. This wear can occur internally in the injector valves or at the spray nozzle tip. The high pressure of the fuel flowing through the injector combined with water or dirt acts like a cutting torch on the metal.

The fix for this problem is to replace the faulty injectors - a costly repair. Fortunately, prevention is the best solution. Use clean fuel from clean fuel tanks. Those tanks often seen in the backs of pickup trucks are often contaminated with both water and dirt so you are wiser to fill at a service station pump than store your own fuel. Another key preventative step is to change fuel filters often. If you wait until performance starts to degrade, the filters are already full and injector damage is likely. While today's diesel engines operate cleaner with better performance than ever before, the fuel system tolerances are much tighter. More frequent fuel filter changes are essential to injector life"

GotCummins?

My 03 --38,000 miles--"ticks", smokes a bit on very cold mornings, knocks,rattles and shakes on shut down, smokes a bit more when i push on the go peddle, in winter time it smells in the cab like exaust(sometimes), makes my hands smell when i fuel it up,takes forever to warm up when its 20deg. or less,knocks, rattles "ticks" some more(depending on where I buy fuel), i could go on and on, as this truck has a personality of its own, depending on what day of the week it is.

Folks these are deisel engines, they make noise, and they still smoke, no matter what they are advertised to do, or not do. This truck is the most reliable vegichle I have ever owned, not one bit of problem to date. Happy Holidays.

Dave65

I go along with that..

rossn2

I have had two bad injectors within the last 5000 miles (17k/23k). Both developed the same problem. When the engine got warm, from idle to 1500rpms it sounded like a rod was coming through the block and an excessive engine ping noise developed. And, I'm here to tell you this is not a "Normal Diesel Noise". I tried using both Rotella DFA or Power Service additives on every fill-up, and I changed the fuel filter every 10k miles. I drain the fuel/water seperator at every fill-up.

After last injector change, I switched to Stanadyne Performance additive for the first two complete fill-ups and have not had any more problems. I've also changed my driving habits= at red lights bring idle up to 1k rpms, and when going down the road, keep rpm's up over 1500 rpms too. I'll probably start changing the fuel filter at 7500 miles, when I do the LOF, to help keep crap out of the injectors.

FWIW, the truck is extremely quiet again, like new/right of the lot Other than the injector problems I have absolutely no complaints...I luv this truck and I was a Ford man from 1990-2003!