admin

Read this on the Cummins website this morning:<br><br>Cummins ISB – Running Clean Into the Future. Cummins 24-valve ISB has a new electronic fuel system and a Variable Geometry Turbocharger. Up to 80% quieter than its predecessor, the ISB also runs cleaner and faster with better fuel economy. No other diesel comes close to matching the value of the ISB.<br><br>I wonder why they haven't put that turbo on the Dodge Ram's engine?

Scotty

[quote author=Jack Thorpe link=board=8;threadid=13086;start=0#123466 date=1049298552]<br>Read this on the Cummins website this morning:<br><br>Cummins ISB – Running Clean Into the Future. Cummins 24-valve ISB has a new electronic fuel system and a Variable Geometry Turbocharger. Up to 80% quieter than its predecessor, the ISB also runs cleaner and faster with better fuel economy. No other diesel comes close to matching the value of the ISB.<br><br>I wonder why they haven't put that turbo on the Dodge Ram's engine?<br>[/quote]<br><br>You answered your own question Jack...because its Dodge.

P Kennedy

I wouldn't get to excited about these things Ford/International are having their problems with them as the moving parts are susceptable to carbon jamming. In another article I read Cat has opted for a variable ratio inlets instead of variable ratio impellers for this reason. The capabilities of these new turbo parts are as a whole fantastic however the cost incurred and the possibility of failure due to excessive moving parts is astronmical. Lets watch and see how Ford makes out with the 6.0 turbos and cost before we all get too excited about the wizards at DC putting them in. PK

BigBlue

I like the idea of the VGT. I think it's got lots of potential.

DieselDaze

Dagbernit! Why dont they ever call me!?!?! <br><br>Id be happy to try it out in my truck! ;D<br><br>Rich

TxDieselKid

I rode in a Dodge with the VGT. Talk about impressive, that thing spooled up instantly, and could be controlled for how much boost you wanted. This was one that was in the testing stages of course, but I would almost prefer this to the twins I rode in the same day. The VGT is the ultimate in drivablity.<br><br>The truck belongs to a memner here named Dean.<br><br>Andrew

Bart Timothy

High Tech Turbo here in SLC is a distributor for several brands of turbos. They claim the Holset VGT is the most reliable of all the other VGTs because of its simplicity. Appearently it doesn't have the carbon buildup problem. Problem with it is the controls. Needs a 100 psi air supply and fancy electronics to control it.<br><br>Edge blew up one of High Tech's VGTs by over speeding it, when testing, before implimenting the proper controls. I understand Dean (wiercummin) also lost one by over speeding. These are expensive turbos to loose.

Berak

So when are we going to be able to buy one? ;D ;D ;D<br><br>Is Edge thinking of making a complete kit available? That would be oh so sweet.... 8)

Battering Ram

I wonder if an RV ECM could be converted over to the Dodge ESB. That ECM has VGT controll built in. One more thing to ponder.

TxDieselKid

I am sure the orginal intent of Edge's testing was to relase a kit, but ;ast I heard that got killed when they blew it. Dean did blow one, but got another and is &quot;playing&quot; we'll say. <br><br>BR,<br>The problem with that is that the &quot;RV&quot; ecm is a 100pin(dual 50 pin) insted of the simple 50pin, and it would be a MAJOR pain by switching over. I do know of someone who is/was planning on doing this at one point. Don't know if they are still planing on doing it or not. <br><br>Andrew

Bart Timothy

I don't think Edge ever had any ideas about releasing a VGT kit. Brett likes to try every new toy that comes along. Considering that their VGT explosion was so damaging it could have killed any body sitting in the passenger seat, I think they dropped any development plans. Most people don't know they also once built a propane kit and lost a $10,000 engine on the dyno while testing it out. They got out of the propane business real fast after that incident.<br><br>Edge has stopped any new resaerch into VP44 systems. They are working on the '03 CTDs and are heading toward doing chips for Ford gassers. They feel these are much bigger and more lucrative markets. Cosidering the man hours and money it takes to develope new products, I don't blame them.

Push Rod

[quote author=Bart Timothy link=board=8;threadid=13086;start=0#124087 date=1049444313]
High Tech Turbo here in SLC is a distributor for several brands of turbos. They claim the Holset VGT is the most reliable of all the other VGTs because of its simplicity.[/quote]

I find it interesting that each shop appears to be having different experiences with VGT turbos. I've talked to a couple big truck outfits up here, and once the warranty is off the engine, they love the VGT turbos.

As one mechanic said, 'VGT turbos are sending my kid through University'

They did agree that Holset's VGTs are the most reliable of the current batch of VGTs, but that the reliability record is nowhere near approaching the reliability of a standard turbo. The common consensus is that its not a matter of 'if' a VGT will fail, but 'when'. Hence the reason why Cat is looking to technologies, including twins in some of their applications.

I do look forward to the day when the VGT turbo is more reliable though. Its a technology that holds a pile of promise, but its not ready for prime-time.

Rod

TxDieselKid

Great post Rod. I would think it would be safe to say that the Ball Bearing turbos will be a &quot;safer&quot; route at this time then the VGT's, would you all agree or not? Any reasons why you feel that why?

Andrew

Push Rod

[quote author=TxDieselKid link=board=8;threadid=13086;start=0#127010 date=1050081475]<br>I would think it would be safe to say that the Ball Bearing turbos will be a &quot;safer&quot; route at this time then the VGT's, would you all agree or not? Any reasons why you feel that why?<br>[/quote]<br><br>I can't answer that question with any degree of confidence today, Andrew. About 8 months ago, I took a brief look at ball bearing turbos, and what I found was high expense, small turbos that didn't have the legs for our applications. I'm not sure why this was so, and can only speculate that there were technical reasons why you couldn't move more air without surging. Things move quick these days, so maybe someone has found an answer, but to my way of thinking, its still unproven. I'll be sticking with good old-fashioned turbos for the time being, and twinning. If the cost is reasonable, I will gladly install one on my truck and try to kill it though ;D<br><br>Rod

TxDieselKid

[quote author=Push Rod link=board=8;threadid=13086;start=0#127147 date=1050104099]<br>I can't answer that question with any degree of confidence today, Andrew. About 8 months ago, I took a brief look at ball bearing turbos, and what I found was high expense, small turbos that didn't have the legs for our applications. I'm not sure why this was so, and can only speculate that there were technical reasons why you couldn't move more air without surging. Things move quick these days, so maybe someone has found an answer, but to my way of thinking, its still unproven. I'll be sticking with good old-fashioned turbos for the time being, and twinning. If the cost is reasonable, I will gladly install one on my truck and try to kill it though ;D<br><br>Rod<br>[/quote]<br><br>Thanks for the response Rod, I think that should a designer from Garrett look into our application, it could be done with ease. Like you, I would be glad to try it, but I sure as heck don't want to kill it, too much time to clean up.... <br><br>Seems as some companies have put the BB aside, and started the VGT before they reached the full capibilities(for us at least) of the BB. :'(<br><br>Dreaming of twin BB's,<br>Andrew<br> ;D ;D ;D