View Full Version : Ring & Pinion Gears Going Out-Low Lube Level Damage
11-12-2002, 04:49 PM
Just received call from 5 Star Dealer Service Manager. Diagnosis of damage due to One and One-Half Quart low lubricant level in rear axle, Ring & Pinion gear damaged, Pinion gear bearings going. Parts have been ordered.<br><br>Ring & Pinion gears are on National Back Order, whatever that means. I am picking it up as it is in driveable condition. They will notify me when parts arrive. <br><br>This puts on hold any towing or long trips out of the area. No driving over 55mph as too much noise. :'( :'( :'( And only 2300 miles, Ring & Pinion Bad.<br><br>If your rear axle is as much as 3/4" below fill hole you could have damage too according to service manager.<br><br>HAVE DEALER CHECK YOUR DIFFERENTIAL LUBRICANT LEVEL<br><br>Wantabee's, now mine, that's two, how many more are out there? <br> ???
11-12-2002, 04:54 PM
>:(Dam it, better check mine just to make sure [eyecrazy] [yuk]
11-12-2002, 06:06 PM
More bad news boys :( :( :( The vibration in my drivetrain after the new differential was replaced appears to be from inside the tranny...most likely the torque converter. District Service rep has contacted me personally and I have insisted that DC owes it to all current and future customers to take my truck and determine what parts failed first to ensure this does not happen again. If DC does not do this and make the nessessary changes..thier bottom line will suffer from a loss of sales.<br>I have every failth DC will do the right thing....in the mean time...please ensure all you members take your rigs to your dealer to have documented any shortage of lubricant and premature wear of differential parts. <br><br>Take care<br><br>Wantabee
11-12-2002, 07:48 PM
Mine was in today for checking rear lube and front wheel balance. Diff was full to the hole. :) :) Wheels now with no shudder. [laugh] [laugh]
Mechanic and Service Tech are checking on changing out the six speed box for synthetic at first oil change. Odd that the five speed is synthetic but the six speed is dino. ???
11-12-2002, 11:22 PM
Fiver, they probably put dino in the 6 speed cause they know you HO guys only use half the gears. That makes the dino last twice as long. Engineering thought for today. [laugh] [laugh]
Service manager informed me they order parts with priority of "vehicle down". He said that means they are to ship immediately to dealer from any source even if necessary from the manufacturer of gears.
Now I sit and wait.
11-12-2002, 11:28 PM
How in heck would a Flatlander need anymore than a couple of gears anywho?<br><br>Come on out to Oregon, Nevada or Californicate and check out that particluar shift pattern ;D<br><br>Hunter burning thru the gears
11-12-2002, 11:58 PM
Hunter, It is difficult for flatlanders to imagine the mountain grades we have in the west. Who in the flyover country flatland ever experienced pulling 27 miles of 9% grade only to crest the summit and have 9 miles downhill 8% grade. Towing a fiver on these roads takes experience for you and your vehicles to survive without an accident or blowing something.<br><br>We were at a Show in a Tahoe Casino and shared a table with a couple from NY City. They had flown into SFO and rented a car. They had driven US-101 in N Calif. Then driven from Sac, to S. Tahoe via US-50. As the hwy descends into the Tahoe Valley it goes along the edge of a cliff, 35 mph speed, one lane each way with shear drop nest to Tahoe bound lane.<br><br>They looked terrified and kept asking if there was another way back to SFO, they didn't want to drive Hwy 50 again. <br><br>I'm sure the front seat must have been thoroughly soaked when they returned that rental car. Yep, flatlanders don't need all them gears unless they venture out west where mountain are real mountains. [laugh] [laugh]
11-13-2002, 12:42 AM
Sierra Phil - I can understand those New Yorkers if they had come from the city. If they were from up-state they would have known better. The only big problems I have had since moving out here are the west coasters who don't know how to handle snow and the fact that the chain controls come on before the snow is even deep enough to get good traction in. Oh well -- dealer called last night to confirm the new truck is in Benicia and may be here by the end of the week. Can't wait. Hope the differential thing has been resolved before this one came off the line. Will know soon enough. Have four more months before the racing season starts and I have to start towing again. By the way - we run the dwarf cars about 4 or 5 times a year over at your fairgrounds - great track. :) :) Oh, by the way - where I grew up and used to drive big rigs in PA and WVA, we didn't have long hills, but they sure were steep - 15-20% grades were not unusual - fortunately they were only a few miles long.
The Boss Hog
11-13-2002, 08:04 AM
Phil, Being an Eastern flatlander, I'm curious. Just where in the west ( ". . . where the mountains are real mountains") do you find a public highway that is 9% grade for 27 miles? If my calculations are correct, that equates to a verticle rise of 12,830 feet :o I didn't think there where any highway passes that high, but I could be wrong [undecided].<br><br>The Boss Hog<br>
11-13-2002, 10:50 AM
Start in Death Valley and go west from Stovepipe Wells. Highway sign are not always truthful of course. Some exageration by DOT helps drivers to be more cautious, they hope. I won't consider going there with my 5er until I have an E-Brake. The one time I pulled that highway I was towin about 5500#. Saw several Motor Homes on down grade with smoking brakes and white knuckle drivers. :o :o
Death Valley is a beautiful place to visit in late fall to early spring.
West of Death Valley is the highest point in the lower 48, Mt Whitney. in the Sierra Nevada Range. Only a three of passes are open year round. Some of the passes through the Sierra are over 10,000 ft and covered with 20-30 ft of snow mid-winter. Los Angeles drinks the snow-melt from the eastern slope. San Francisco drinks snow-melt from the western slope.
11-13-2002, 05:52 PM
Been there, done that one, Sierra. In a Class A 36' diesel. Fun. Then headed north thru the mountains to come out at Hot Springs and on down to Porterville. Now you would think an adult would know better than take a 36'er up that road, but I only remembered doing it in my souped up Chevy as a teen ager. Sooo, should I be deprived of doing it again in my "mature" years? Of course not. Sure wondered what I was doing there a couple times, I must admit. [undecided]
ps: Boss - - worked out those numbers - - it only comes to 10,853.6671 feet. [laugh]
11-13-2002, 11:45 PM
We've got lots of wild roads in these Mountains. The make even the most experienced driver loose bladder control. <br><br>Towed 25 ft travel trailer over Monitor Pass (8314" Summit). All of east side, 10 miles, is 8% except for 1 mile 5%. West side is 7 1/2 miles of 7-10% with truck speed limit of 20 mph. Lots of curves on both sides are 25-40 miles per hour. Stop sign at the end of 10% grade.<br><br>Sign says, "Tractor-semis over 36' kingpin to rear axle not advised". This one is worse than Death Valley exit. Ebbetts Pas on Calif Hwy 4 is worst of all amound other hurdles it has 6 miles of 9-11%grade with 10 mph hairpin turns, road is so narrow they don't paint a centerline. Steepest portion is 3 miles of 10-12% grade.<br><br>Flatlanders can't visualize these roads. It is fun to watch them when they get on one by mistake. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
11-13-2002, 11:58 PM
Boss Hog:<br><br>Southern Nevada has no real passes, but I lived in Colorado for many years. The following list of high Colorado passes is for your reading pleasure:<br><br>Coal Bank Summit US 550 10,640'<br>Cumbres Pass State Rt 17 10,022'<br>Fall River Pass US 34 11,786'<br>Independence Pass State Rt 82 12,095'<br>La Manga Pass State Rt 17 10,230'<br>Lizard Head Pass State Rt 145 10,222'<br>Milner Pass US 34 10,758'<br>Molas Divide US 550 10,910'<br>Monarch Pass US 50 11,312'<br>Mount Evans Byway State Rt 5 14,264'<br>Red Mountain Pass US 550 11,008'<br>Slumgullion Pass State Rt 149 11,361'<br>Spring Creek Pass State Rt 149 10,901'<br>Trail Ridge Road US 34 12,320'<br>Wolf Creek Pass US 160 10,850'<br><br>Of this list the most thrilling (without a doubt) is Independence Pass. Driving Independence in a truck for the first time will scare the crap out of you, attempting to tow an RV over it is probably a felony. Many of these roads are only open in the summertime, a few of them are little more than glorified wagon trails, and all of them have stunning scenery. <br><br>Cheers (see you in the back country)
11-14-2002, 04:43 AM
In 98 with a new Ram 4 x 4 spent a week in Ouray. Some ??? ???flatlander from ..ansas decided to drive his Ryder truck over Engineer Pass. (recommended for high profile 4 x 4s only) He made it up until the road narrowed. He got stuck between a granite wall and a sheer drop of a few hundred feet. He couldn't move up or down. It took three tow trucks a couple of days to bring him back down the road safely.<br><br>Nevada, I've driven many of the passes towing various trailers, Coal Bank (Red Mountain), Monarch, Rabbit Ears, Tennessee, Douglas, and others.<br><br>With the fiver I take the Mountain Directory West with me to read before I attempt to tow them.
11-14-2002, 06:32 AM
Phil, I have been reading about your's and Wantabee's experiences for the past week and I have to tell you that what I saw here probably was 95% of the reason I'm getting "satisfaction" on my issue.
I have a 2003 3500 SLT single wheel, limited slip (2,600 miles) that my buddy commented "the rear end sure whines on this... check the pinion gears" last Tuesday night....
On Wednesday I "discovered" this forum, and that night I pulled the inspection plug on the differential, and sure as shootin, I could not touch any lube with my finger, but determined there was "some" in the case....
Took it to the selling dealer first thing in the morning and they were very accommodating, and put their best man in the truck with me for a test drive.....
You know, sometimes when this happens the guy just looks at you and says "what whine?" but I feel fortunate, that before we had gone 300 feet he was convinced the rear end was gone and as soon as he we got back, he told the hold service team that very thing "this guy needs a new rear end"
To make a long story short... the dealer never waivered for a second in their need to correct the problem but they did need a little help in thinking "outside of the box" to find a solution.
Mine was (and yeah the pinion and "O" gears are on "national back order) that DC authorized shipment of a new axle to replace mine..
Thanks again to you guys posting what you were finding as you went along... It helped me to keep a level head and keep from cutting off my nose to spite my face....
The Boss Hog
11-14-2002, 08:49 AM
<br>It is difficult for flatlanders to imagine the mountain grades we have in the west. Who in the flyover country flatland ever experienced pulling 27 miles of 9% grade only to crest the summit and have 9 miles downhill 8% grade. I appreciate all of your inputs but I think I failed to clearly convey my position. To clarify where I was coming from, let me make the following comments:<br><br>FiverBob:<br><br>I am using the formula ďrise over run equals gradeĒ. A grade of 9% for 27 miles works out to a rise of 12, 830.4 feet (but 10,853 ft. makes my same point). Please let me know if I am using the wrong formula.<br><br>Nevada:<br><br>Mount Evans byway is a narrow, dead end road full of pot holes and broken pavement that no sane person would attempt to tow anything up. Highest continuous paved road on your list is Trail Ridge Road (12,320 ft). That road connects Grand Lake, CO (elev. 8574 ft) to Estes Park, Co (elev. 7500) and is 46.5 miles long. The real climb and decent takes place between those two points. The way I do the math, that does not equate to a 12,000 foot rise in 27 miles.<br><br>SierraPhil:<br><br>Glad to see you spent a week in Ouray, Co. Its a beautiful area. I was born in Denver and grew up in Steamboat Springs, Co. You should have driven Rabbit Ears pass before the new road was put in to the west summit in the early 1960ís. Of course back then you didnít see any fifth wheel travel trailers.<br><br>As you know, Mt Whitney is located on the eastern edge of Sequoia National Park and there are no continuous roads over the Sierraís through Sequoia National Park. Lone Pine is the closet point, on a continuous road (US395), to Mt Whitney. It is 3,680 feet high and is over 60 miles from Death Valley. Closest mountain pass to Mt Whitney is Tioga Pass (9,900 ft) on Hwy 120. It is over well over 125 miles north of Lone Pine. I donít care what direction you take out of Death Valley. Youíre not going to be 12,000 feet higher after only 27 miles.<br><br>All:<br><br>I in no way intended to get into a negative discussion with anyone, but I do resent the way certain people look down their nose at us flatlanders like we are some kind of imbeciles. We all agree that you need to take the proper precautions when driving no matter where you are going. Diving tips, based on local knowledge, are always appreciated but what we donít need is people throwing out wild exaggerations for the sole purpose of impressing other people with their driving abilities. <br><br>The Boss Hog<br><br>PS Iím surprised to see that you think its funny to see folks in trouble. I personally try to help if I can.<br><br><br>
One '02 3500 ETH 6spd 4x4 with bombs, skid plates, and 2.5 lift. One 28 foot Airstream with a home-welded six inch lift.
One "dirt" trail up to the property on the side of an 11K mountain in Nevada. Six miles, deep sand at the bottom, boulder field and scrub, narrow canyon with five wash crossings, boulder field, steep incline, narrow gulch, water crossing, sixteen twists through pinyon pine forest, boulder field, steep incline, muddy meadow with two water crossings, twelve twists through aspen/pine forest, steep incline, boulder field, slope scramble, seven twists through aspen/fir forest, water crossing, steep incline, water crossing, big meadow and home. What a view!
Everything else is a drive in the park. :)
11-14-2002, 11:16 AM
Cowboy<br><br>Man, glad you got that taken care of! <br><br>Another feather in the forums hat for helping someone in need!<br><br>My only question is this, how can DC have allowed this to happen? As time rolls on, it appears we are gonna have more and more rear end failures just like Cowboys. Seems they would be on it like my dog on a rabbit and every newer rear end would be recalled and looked at ASAP<br><br>Glad I had mine checked soon enough (I hope)<br><br>At least there is a record of it and can stuff it down their throat if I do have a problem later<br><br>Welcome aboard Cowboy<br><br>Hunter
11-14-2002, 11:18 AM
Boss!<br><br>I think everyone is funnin' about the "flatlander" thing :)<br><br>I for one, never met a flatlander I didn't like [laugh] [laugh]<br><br>Have a good day, when is your truck do?<br><br>Hunter
The Boss Hog
11-14-2002, 11:48 AM
Hunter,<br> I'm starting to get a little fustrated with DC. >:( The truck has been in KZ status since 11/6/02. I just called and was told the same thing, "KZ but no rail car assigned yet". Elizabeth (very nice lady) said she was sorry but I should call back next week to see if the status has changed. Sorry ain't going to hack it if I miss out on the rebate because it sat on a back lot in Mexico for two weeks.<br>Latter,<br>The Boss Hog<br>(still learning how to drive on the flatlands ;))
11-14-2002, 12:17 PM
Thanks Hunter.<br>Truly, my hat is off to the forum. Knowing that these issues exist and that people use the knowledge to hold DC accountable can't help but make a better product.... While I don't know for a FACT, I believe my own dealer is unaware of this resource but would certainly be ahead of the game if they did pay attention to what's going on here, spot trends and check for themselves (I gotta believe they would rather fill a differential than mess around with a bunch of failures) when something becomes a hot topics....<br>Must be a "Men from the Boys: thing.<br>Anyway, I love this truck, and as SierraPhil said, money is WAY too hard to come by for me to waste it and not do a little preventative/pro-active maintenance. <br>I will be sure to post things as they come along. Who knows it might make all the difference for someone...<br>
11-14-2002, 12:39 PM
Amen! Cowboy Mark. It sure helps when you know others are having the same problem. Dealers for the most part like to know that yours is not an isolated case. Top notch dealers will take the 5 minutes to check and do preventive maintenance if customer is in for service. Can you imagine a large fleet customer having several vehicles out of service because of a common problem/ What that event would have on the reputation for reliability? That could be devastating in a small community.
11-14-2002, 02:06 PM
Boss<br><br>Keep your chin up. When I called on mine once they said nope, it is still in D status and won't go to D1 probably until next week. Well, when I called a week later, it had gone thru all the D's and Z's and was on a train in Texas already!<br><br>They sometimes seem to have "late" information. I would keep bugging them on it. It has to come from Saltillo to Texas to be put on a train, which in my case occurred within one day from rolling out the door to being on the train. Keep bugging them for a rail car number so you can track it via the RR company that is shipping her for you!<br><br>Chin up friend, it will show ;D ;D<br><br>Hunter
11-14-2002, 04:06 PM
Boss Hog,<br><br>I was just tyin' another knot in your tail with my 10,??? feet. [laugh] [laugh]<br><br>In our business, Rise/Run = Slope (as in a roof system). Same difference. As long as you don't try and resurrect that Pythagorus guy we will be OK. ;D<br><br>9%Bob
The Boss Hog
11-14-2002, 06:28 PM
FiverBob,<br> Heck, I thought you were one of those young guys working some of that new math on me ;). <br> I think I'm finally figuring out why I never ordered a vehicle before . . . the wait is killing me! [eyecrazy] I think I am to use to instant gratification. At least all the new Dodge Rams at work (3) are 1500's. Latter,<br>The Boss Hog
11-14-2002, 08:35 PM
Seirra Cowboy:<br><br>Dc called me today and stated that my differential was the only complete failure they new about....either my regional customer service manager is being kept in the dark...or I am being fed the line. I must say I have faith in the regional service amnager...he seems genuine and very sympathic.<br>DC then called me to ask if I was towing a trailer at the time of the axle failure :o This was not the case. In any event...I am going to wait and see what DC comes up with.....then I will tell them about this form.<br>The vibration is still in the truck and I refuse to take the truck back with 550 miles on it.....needless to say I am getting Pi**ed off....this Saturady will be 2 weeks and I am no further ahead.<br><br>The problem in these situations is the beaucratic process...my regional service manager is on my side...DC HQ and their team of "Experts" wil not beleive the service manager, sales manager and technicians that there is a problem with this truck they cannot find and therefore they will not approve the replacement of the truck to this point.<br><br><br>I have faith in due process...but I am quickly running out of patience ???<br><br>take care<br><br>Wantabee
11-14-2002, 08:45 PM
Boss Hog -
No offense intended.
You might live in the flat lands now, but you sure don't sound like a flatlander. What in the world took you out of Steamboat Springs? If that isn't God's country I don't know what is.
Honestly, I've seen more bone headed driving maneuvers on flat interstate than I have ever seen in the back country.
I have sure been thankful for the next helpful driver to come along when I have gotten in over my head.
The Boss Hog
11-15-2002, 06:31 AM
Nevada,<br> None taken ;)<br><br>As to why I left, I have the dubious distinction of being the only person to have graduated from Steamboat Springs High School and never learned to ski [laugh] [laugh]. Besides, since I moved to Florida, I have not had to shovel snow one time ;D ;D ;D<br>Latter,<br>The Boss Hog<br>
11-17-2002, 07:14 PM
<br>Nevada,<br> None taken ;)<br><br>As to why I left, I have the dubious distinction of being the only person to have graduated from Steamboat Springs High School and never learned to ski [laugh] [laugh]. Besides, since I moved to Florida, I have not had to shovel snow one time ;D ;D ;D<br>Latter,<br>The Boss Hog<br><br><br><br>We sure have to shovel something else down here in Florida from all those imported flatlanders, though. [laugh] [laugh]<br><br>I really miss that snow, too Hog. ;D Not fun. Guess we will never know how the Cummins starts in the cold, will we?<br><br>Bob
11-17-2002, 07:32 PM
Fiver , Boss, Nevada, Every week during the winter season we lose a few flatlanders. I'm sure most are nice peop on a person to person basis. They shore don't know how to dirve mountain roads during snow season. They come up mto God's Country in them Tahoes, Burbans, Expeditions. when the see the white stuff begin to fall they shift into 4x4 and put the pedal to the metal. After all with a 4 x 4 they are safe on the snow, Right? Anywho, they slip and slide until the slip into a big sugar pine. Paramedics try to save em but one or two in each vehicle don't make it. :'( :'(
11-17-2002, 08:40 PM
What is so scarry is they do not know what a solid line in the middle of the road means. It means, don't cross it. >:( You come into a blind corner, start around it, and here is some idiot over on your side of the road cutting the corner. Where do you go with a big RV? I almost got knocked over the side of a mountain by a motorhome coming down and cutting a corner. I was going up the back route old mule team route) to Cripple Creek, CO. Don't ask me why I was on that road in a Class A motorhome, but I was. Some lady in a class C coming down, smoke pouring out of her brakes (probably did not know what a gearshift was) and cutting the corner. <br><br>You are right - - there are lessons to be learned when heading into them thar hills if you want to come out alive and not kill other innocent people. Really fun to watch them hang tight to the side away from the drop off, whether it is on their side or yours makes no difference - - just keep me away from that drop off, Mable. [laugh]
The Boss Hog
11-18-2002, 06:33 AM
FiverBob, At this rate (still KZ >:( )I may never get to see how the Cummins starts in cold weather much less snow, but I sure found out about the Harley this morning! Riding to work this morning was a bit on the nippy side :o. But then, I don't remember being able to ride in mid November in Steamboat ;D ;D ;D<br><br>Sierra Phil, I agree that driving in winter conditions in the mountains takes experience and a lot of common sense. Personally, the worst winter drivers I have encountered are 18 year olds driving Toyota 4x4 pickups. They apperently have no fear of God.<br><br>Latter,<br>The Boss Hog (the happy flatlander)
11-19-2002, 05:22 PM
Update on Parts Backorder<br><br>Today I talked with the service manager. All the parts for replacing ring & Pinion gears have arrived except a shim kit. They expect it to arrive by tomorrow. Then they will schedule a time for installation of parts. <br><br>It will sure be nice to have it fixed and quiet. :D
11-22-2002, 12:13 PM
2nd Update on Parts Back Order<br><br>Stopped by dealer again today and they have all the parts for installing new ring & pinion, over $1500 in parts on the list. The status of the needed 3 shim kits has not changed. They are now contacting American Axle to find what other shim kits fit. (GM has this axle on their trucks. If there are GM kit that are the same they will go that route since they own the GM dealership.)<br><br>I will check back on Monday. ???
11-25-2002, 06:54 PM
Rebuild of Rear Axle Scheduled for Monday <br><br>Visited my dealer today. Service Manager greeted me with "Happy Thanksgiving, Good news." The consulted with American Axle and were informed in the event for the need of shims, the GM shims could be used. These have been available through their GM dealership 1/2 mile away from the D-C location.<br><br>My baby is to get all new gears, bearings, and seals in rear axle. I take her in at 8:30 next Monday. She should be ready the following day. I'll have a quiet rear axle again. ;D ;D
The Boss Hog
11-26-2002, 06:10 AM
Phil,<br> That is good news :) Hope it turns out OK for you. I stopped by the Dealership last Friday and I think I am starting to fall out of love with the salesman :( He did not have a clue where the truck was or when it would get here. That's was expected. But when I started to tell him about the low fluid levels in the axles, he cut me off saying " don't worry they check all that stuff on the PDI." I then politely asked him not to cut me off when I was stating a concern and I said I wanted it in writing that they did the check. He again said not to worry and rushed off to anouther customer >:( <br> I am very much looking forward to the arrival of the truck and just hope the delivery process does not turn ugly. <br><br>The Boss Hog<br>
I am new to this forum after reading it for a short time. You guys provide great information. A little of my ownership history is provided.
I have owned a 1989 and 1996 Cummins and have been pleased and trouble free over the years. I am wanting to purchase the 2003 very soon and will probably place my order when the new 48RE is available. Hopefully shortly.
I am just reading about this Low Lube problem. Is this only related to the 2500 series or to all trucks? Where is the quality control by both DC and the dealers?
11-26-2002, 10:59 AM
Welcome KenR, The responsibility for the fluid level is with AMM the manufacturer of the axle assembly. You can be sure that D-C is randomly checking the levels at the factory, as the vehicles are driven before arrival at the dealer. <br><br>Boss Hog, when you take delivery of your baby, ask to speak with the tech that did the PDI. Then ask him. Most tech are more customer oriented to satisfaction.
11-26-2002, 11:44 AM
Boss<br><br>A word to the wise. You have "padded" your salesmans back pocket. Does he really want to talk to you or does he want to pad his pocket even more? Food for thought!<br><br>Now the people you need to know are the service guys. The main service guy at my dealership made a special point of finding me one day whilst I was there, and saying if anything was wrong with the service or parts area to contact him.<br><br>He even called me on a Sunday (they are not open, he was there doing some stuff) to tell me my long awaited tow mirrors where in so he could schedule me for early Monday morning.<br><br>Forget the sales guy, he is a hot breath of foul air in the wind!<br><br>Get to know the other part of the dealership now.<br><br>And call DC, keep checking daily at 1-800-992-1997. Tell them your problem, and if not helpful, ask for a supervisor. It will work, trust me!<br><br>Hunter
11-26-2002, 01:19 PM
KenR, the problem is not just the 2500, as mine was well over a quart low on my 3500. Make sure when you take delivery of your truck, you make them check the axle lube level right then. My local dealer didnt offer to locate a truck for me. Since they didnt have any yet, I found one about 2 hours away at another dealership. I asked about the lube level, and they said "thats all in the PDI" I said ok. ::)(STUPID) Well, truck developed a vibration, so I called my local dealer for service. When he found out that the axle lube level was low, he refused to fill it! He said the "other" dealership was responsible, and they got paid to check that.So, after some heated calls between local and out-of town, and also the 800 number for dodge, still I'm getting the run around. (I'm at work, my wife is doing the calling) I actually had one dealer refuse to even do warranty work of any kind because I didnt buy it there. >:( Anyway moral of the story is after I got off a 12 hour shift at work, I went straight to the local dealer and demanded to speak to the owner. After I explained the situation to him he took care of things. Imagine that...a P*****g match between "stealers" over a stupid quart of oil. I asked the local service manager if a quart of oil was worth losing a future customer, and he said" thats expensive oil" ??? I said " More than my 35k truck??? What a loser. I am real dissapointed in Dodge service dept. already, and my truck only has 1800 miles it...Not a good sign for future visits. ??? Sorry for the long post, I was'nt going to even mention it, but I get um...upset... every time I think about it. Cat Cracker.
11-26-2002, 02:25 PM
Well I don't want to start a war here but their is something to be said for keeping your business with the local dealer. I am in a business where the same thing happens, someone comes in and trys to beat you up and price and then goes buys it down the road at a big chain store. Then they come back to me when something is wrong with it because the chain store service sucks. That is what you are doing is passing one dealers problem on to anothers. I could have gone 2 hours away and probably saved $500 or so one my truck, but I stuck with my local business because they are going to service it and take care of me.<br><br>Everyone going price shopping and buying at the "big boxes" it what is runing the small business and service in this country, all they want it your money, that don't give about you when you walk out the door.<br><br>Their that is my support the small local business speach ;D
Sierra Phil and Cat Cracker. Thanks for the welcome.<br>I am Glad to able to learn this information before I order and thanks to you guys for sharing.<br><br>Dodge's PDI is lacking something and it has occurred at more than one dealership. Of course it appears that AMM is the initial cause of this problem. I feel sure that Dodge now has a handle on it but it certainly does not help the individual that has damage. It puts a very sour taste in your mouth and makes on lookers hesitate to buy.<br><br>In 1994 I was involved in the first failure of the new V10 that destroyed my engine by lack of care by the dealer to solve a minor problem. A major recall developed on the V10 and mine qualified as a LEMON and Dodge had to buy it back.<br>Good luck to all.
Lary Ellis (Top)
11-26-2002, 02:52 PM
I agree with you Mopar Mudder on keeping your money home. But unfortunately the dealer near me has no idea what dealing is. I made 3 attempts to buy from him and finally drove 4 hours and saved just under $6,000 dollars on the truck I ordered.<br> <br> Then took the order form back and showed him I could order the truck he told me I could not get. he merely grunted and tossed the form back at me. <br><br> I wanted him to make money on the deal but $6,000.00 difference for a 4 hour drive is rediculous. Oh well you can only try so many times till you get tired of dealing with them. And the guy I bought from gave me his best price right over the phone no haggling. And they didn't have this 1,800 dollar area mark up the Dealer here adds to the sticker price either. I never saw that before anywhere. They just stick it on there hoping you are dumb enough to pay it.
11-26-2002, 04:08 PM
$6,000 [laugh] He must have needed a new boat or something!!!! That is a little, no alot extreme, man.<br><br>That is one nice thing about living in a small town, things seem to be better that way. And if someone is going to be high you already know it and never go talk to them to start with, them people usually aren't in business for very long either.<br><br>P.S. Wheres my truck :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
11-27-2002, 07:31 PM
Mopar_Mudder: I totally agree with supporting local business, thats why I went to my local Dodge dealer 3 times, talked to the salesperson I bought my 2001 cummins diesel truck from, told them that I wanted an 03'. I got the response" umm, we dont have any, but we should get some in around november" Not once did they offer to LOCATE one for me, and I dont feel obligated to force them to do their job. If they dont want to make an effort, then I'm not gonna force them to. Thats exactly what I told the owner, because I dont want to be treated like the proverbial "red-headed step child" every time I bring my truck for service.Its not my fault his sales people dropped the ball. He agreed.<br><br> Cat Cracker.
11-27-2002, 08:05 PM
KenR, <br><br>States with "Lemon Laws" have a procedure which qualifies the vehicle as a lemon. California has one of the most detailed procedures. If you buy a new vehicle D-C dealers are to provide you with a copy. Reputable dealers try to see warranty problems are resolved without going route. Even though my vehicle has a problem I still have reasonable use. My servicing dealer has been reasonable and has attempted to minimize my inconvenience. <br><br>If an adversarial relationship develops between the customer and the dealer or the dealer and D-C over warranty repairs, everybody loses.
Sierra Phil,<br><br>Mississippi also has a Lemon Law and the dealer has three chances to correct the same problem within the first year. If they can't correct it they have to buy the vehicle back from you including paying you for the sales tax collected, less a mileage charge. The key is to be sure each repair is documented.<br><br>You don't need a Lawyer to enforce it.
12-02-2002, 06:30 PM
Today My Ram went into the dealer to have all the gears, bearings, and seals replaced in the rear axle. This is the second day I have been without my wheels. Hope to have a call tomorrow that it is good as new again with a quiet rear axle. Almost 3300 miles, 1/3 broken in.
KenR, I am well aware of the Lemon Laws. Every purchaser of a new vehicle receives a copy of the D-C supplement to Warranty Booklet outlining these laws. As I live in California only the Laws of California apply. This disclosure is 9 pages in length. If you don't have a copy of this booklet you should ask to see one at any new car dealer.
There are sections pertaining to lemon laws with most states listed as well as Washington DC and Puerto Rico. Absent from this booklet is any mention of Mississippi.
In Calif. the vehicle must be out of service for 30 days total within 18 months after delivery. Out of service means unable to operate or unsafe to operate. The 30 days may be extended if the conditions preventing repair are conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer of the vehicle.
<br><br><br>KenR, I am well aware of the Lemon Laws. Every purchaser of a new vehicle receives a copy of the D-C supplement to Warranty Booklet outlining these laws. As I live in California only the Laws of California apply. This disclosure is 9 pages in length. If you don't have a copy of this booklet you should ask to see one at any new car dealer.<br><br>There are sections pertaining to lemon laws with most states listed as well as Washington DC and Puerto Rico. Absent from this booklet is any mention of Mississippi. <br><br><br><br>My Lemon Law case occurred in 1995. Go here for current MS Lemon Law information if you desire to read it.<br><br>http://www.mississippi-lemon-law.com/mississippi_lemon_law_.htm
12-03-2002, 10:41 PM
Picked up my 2003 baby at 5:15 p.m. today. They sure did quiet down that rear axle with all the new bearings and gears. Total time in show since taking delivery 3 days. I am satisfied with the results. No charge for the two wash and vacuum jobs. All warranty. [laugh] [laugh]
The Boss Hog
12-04-2002, 05:55 AM
Sierra,<br> Glad to see that everything worked out for you :) If I ever see mine, the first thing I'll do is check the fluid levels. What level did your dealer finally decide was correct?<br>Latter,<br>The Boss Hog<br>
12-04-2002, 08:16 AM
It is now 1/2 " below opening. That is minimum according to Owner's Manual". ???
12-04-2002, 06:00 PM
Phil,<br>Really glad to hear about the satisfactory installation of the gears. That is a little disarming to pay that much money and have something mess up. But, as stated before, there are a bunch of parts all put together to make these things purr. Amazing they don't break more often. Hope it stays quiet.<br><br>Bob
12-04-2002, 06:17 PM
Bob, it is great when you have a dealer which wants customer satisfaction. They'll go to bat for you and will do what is necessary to fix things right. <br><br> Phil ;)
12-05-2002, 08:26 PM
I took my truck in for the free first oil change at the dealership. <br> I asked them to check the differental fluid since I had heard of some having low oil levels with some suffering failures from it.<br> They had never heard of any such thing but they would check anyway. Guess what, 1 quart low. My truck had 3000 miles on it. I guess my truck rear end should be broke in now running it a quart low for 3000 miles.<br> I am going back and telling them to check my transmission and everything else that has fluids. My thought is if they find something else low and fill it, at least I will have a record of it if something fails later.<br> FWIW Randy
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