Pistons hurt - suggestions please
08-31-2009, 07:00 AM
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Pistons hurt - suggestions please
Number 2 and number 6 are out. Anyone have any ideas what I should do.
Go back with stock?? or
I have heard 05 pistons are coated?? or
Aftermarket??
Thanks,
Jason
Go back with stock?? or
I have heard 05 pistons are coated?? or
Aftermarket??
Thanks,
Jason
08-31-2009, 07:32 AM
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08-31-2009, 09:17 AM
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I, too, am running stockers with ceramic coating. Mine was done through Haisleys, but there are a number of companies doing this... they are not all the same in terms of what you get and the quality.
That said, I am told that the coating provides about a 200* increase of heat tolerance. I am unsure of the facts of that though.
That said, I am told that the coating provides about a 200* increase of heat tolerance. I am unsure of the facts of that though.
08-31-2009, 09:51 AM
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Thanks for the reply.
Did you ever hurt your pistons or did you get the ceramic coating before any problems? Also - you are probably standing by the "twins are keeping me cooler" and "safer" statement.???
Did you ever hurt your pistons or did you get the ceramic coating before any problems? Also - you are probably standing by the "twins are keeping me cooler" and "safer" statement.???
I, too, am running stockers with ceramic coating. Mine was done through Haisleys, but there are a number of companies doing this... they are not all the same in terms of what you get and the quality.
That said, I am told that the coating provides about a 200* increase of heat tolerance. I am unsure of the facts of that though.
That said, I am told that the coating provides about a 200* increase of heat tolerance. I am unsure of the facts of that though.
08-31-2009, 11:42 AM
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And no, I wouldn't say twins are keeping you cooler and safer... that is too much a blanket statement. I would say all things being equal with tuning and what not that twins can make you cooler and safer; but let's face it, there are far too many varibles to say that flatly. Twins aren't for everyone and not always better depending on intended usage, blah, blah, blah...
I would say though that water injection in the proper manner would keep you cooler and safer... especially with those flux 4's of yours.
08-31-2009, 12:05 PM
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Ok, I am trying to get a dialouge (sp) going here. You are right about twins not for everyone. I dont want them and cant use them for what I am doing. As far as you hurting some pistons did your score or burn down completely? How long had you ran the truck b4 u had the coatings put in. What kind of money am I looking at?
Sorry about all the questions.
I have several phone calls out to guys also and figured my buddies on the DTR could help too.
Sorry about all the questions.
I have several phone calls out to guys also and figured my buddies on the DTR could help too.
Yes I did..
And no, I wouldn't say twins are keeping you cooler and safer... that is too much a blanket statement. I would say all things being equal with tuning and what not that twins can make you cooler and safer; but let's face it, there are far too many varibles to say that flatly. Twins aren't for everyone and not always better depending on intended usage, blah, blah, blah...
I would say though that water injection in the proper manner would keep you cooler and safer... especially with those flux 4's of yours.
And no, I wouldn't say twins are keeping you cooler and safer... that is too much a blanket statement. I would say all things being equal with tuning and what not that twins can make you cooler and safer; but let's face it, there are far too many varibles to say that flatly. Twins aren't for everyone and not always better depending on intended usage, blah, blah, blah...
I would say though that water injection in the proper manner would keep you cooler and safer... especially with those flux 4's of yours.
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08-31-2009, 01:39 PM
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08-31-2009, 09:24 PM
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From the lack of responses I guess I am the only person who ever burnt a piston in a 3rd gen! I talked to a DTR memeber tonight that said he sees 3rd gen pistons burnt all the time at his shop. He gave me some options.
So answer me this question...why arent there more responses as to what are my options?? Are you guys not wanting to admit you had a piston go down??
Also I found out that the '05 option is not an option. '05 pistons are not coated. I was told they are junk...stay away from them.
So answer me this question...why arent there more responses as to what are my options?? Are you guys not wanting to admit you had a piston go down??
Also I found out that the '05 option is not an option. '05 pistons are not coated. I was told they are junk...stay away from them.
08-31-2009, 11:11 PM
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The 03-04 pistons are designed for a different spray angle then the 04.5 and 05. Stick with the 03-04 piston. The 05's were not coated.
I had my 05 pistons coated (both top and skirts), from Swain Coatings in NY. It ran just over $400 with shipping. I was more interested in the skirt coating then the top, but I figured while they were there... IMO the coating on the top will extend the time before the piston melts, but it won't keep it from melting. I do the 1/4 mile in just over 11 seconds so a couple of seconds can make a big difference.
People that sled pull seem to have more of a problem then use drag racers. For a couple of very basic reasons. One, sled pullers are at max power for a longer period of time. Two they typically run higher rpm. The max rpm I hit during a run is just as I cross the finish line, and thats ~3400 rpm. I would lower that if I could. The pistons are basically oil cooled. At higher rpm's the oil has less of a chance to remove the heat from the piston. On the other side, diesel burns very slowly. As rpm increases the amount of degrees of crankshaft rotation that fuel is burning on top of the piston increases. What you end up with is a longer exposure to heat, with less time to cool. At this point EGT's are meaningless.
What can be done? More air, but you are probably limited by class. Same with spraying water, probably the best single thing you can do, but you maybe restricted from doing it. Keep the rpm down, again may not be possible. Keep the water and oil temps in check. The head and block is cooled by the water, the pistons by oil. Even 25 degrees can make a big difference. Monotherm pistons would be great, but I don't know anyone that is currently making them for our application. Coating the tops of the pistons is still an unknow on a common rail. I don't think there is much information on how it will last with the injection pressures we spray at on a common rail. Quite a few are using it (including me), so we should know before long if it's going to last.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps.
Paul
I had my 05 pistons coated (both top and skirts), from Swain Coatings in NY. It ran just over $400 with shipping. I was more interested in the skirt coating then the top, but I figured while they were there... IMO the coating on the top will extend the time before the piston melts, but it won't keep it from melting. I do the 1/4 mile in just over 11 seconds so a couple of seconds can make a big difference.
People that sled pull seem to have more of a problem then use drag racers. For a couple of very basic reasons. One, sled pullers are at max power for a longer period of time. Two they typically run higher rpm. The max rpm I hit during a run is just as I cross the finish line, and thats ~3400 rpm. I would lower that if I could. The pistons are basically oil cooled. At higher rpm's the oil has less of a chance to remove the heat from the piston. On the other side, diesel burns very slowly. As rpm increases the amount of degrees of crankshaft rotation that fuel is burning on top of the piston increases. What you end up with is a longer exposure to heat, with less time to cool. At this point EGT's are meaningless.
What can be done? More air, but you are probably limited by class. Same with spraying water, probably the best single thing you can do, but you maybe restricted from doing it. Keep the rpm down, again may not be possible. Keep the water and oil temps in check. The head and block is cooled by the water, the pistons by oil. Even 25 degrees can make a big difference. Monotherm pistons would be great, but I don't know anyone that is currently making them for our application. Coating the tops of the pistons is still an unknow on a common rail. I don't think there is much information on how it will last with the injection pressures we spray at on a common rail. Quite a few are using it (including me), so we should know before long if it's going to last.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps.
Paul
08-31-2009, 11:43 PM
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from what Schied Diesel and Schiver Diesel said was they are putting the 05 H.O pistons, having them coated and running them in the 03-04, due to the improvements they made to the H.O piston
09-01-2009, 12:02 AM
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The 03-04 pistons are designed for a different spray angle then the 04.5 and 05. Stick with the 03-04 piston. The 05's were not coated.
I had my 05 pistons coated (both top and skirts), from Swain Coatings in NY. It ran just over $400 with shipping. I was more interested in the skirt coating then the top, but I figured while they were there... IMO the coating on the top will extend the time before the piston melts, but it won't keep it from melting. I do the 1/4 mile in just over 11 seconds so a couple of seconds can make a big difference.
People that sled pull seem to have more of a problem then use drag racers. For a couple of very basic reasons. One, sled pullers are at max power for a longer period of time. Two they typically run higher rpm. The max rpm I hit during a run is just as I cross the finish line, and thats ~3400 rpm. I would lower that if I could. The pistons are basically oil cooled. At higher rpm's the oil has less of a chance to remove the heat from the piston. On the other side, diesel burns very slowly. As rpm increases the amount of degrees of crankshaft rotation that fuel is burning on top of the piston increases. What you end up with is a longer exposure to heat, with less time to cool. At this point EGT's are meaningless.
What can be done? More air, but you are probably limited by class. Same with spraying water, probably the best single thing you can do, but you maybe restricted from doing it. Keep the rpm down, again may not be possible. Keep the water and oil temps in check. The head and block is cooled by the water, the pistons by oil. Even 25 degrees can make a big difference. Monotherm pistons would be great, but I don't know anyone that is currently making them for our application. Coating the tops of the pistons is still an unknow on a common rail. I don't think there is much information on how it will last with the injection pressures we spray at on a common rail. Quite a few are using it (including me), so we should know before long if it's going to last.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps.
Paul
I had my 05 pistons coated (both top and skirts), from Swain Coatings in NY. It ran just over $400 with shipping. I was more interested in the skirt coating then the top, but I figured while they were there... IMO the coating on the top will extend the time before the piston melts, but it won't keep it from melting. I do the 1/4 mile in just over 11 seconds so a couple of seconds can make a big difference.
People that sled pull seem to have more of a problem then use drag racers. For a couple of very basic reasons. One, sled pullers are at max power for a longer period of time. Two they typically run higher rpm. The max rpm I hit during a run is just as I cross the finish line, and thats ~3400 rpm. I would lower that if I could. The pistons are basically oil cooled. At higher rpm's the oil has less of a chance to remove the heat from the piston. On the other side, diesel burns very slowly. As rpm increases the amount of degrees of crankshaft rotation that fuel is burning on top of the piston increases. What you end up with is a longer exposure to heat, with less time to cool. At this point EGT's are meaningless.
What can be done? More air, but you are probably limited by class. Same with spraying water, probably the best single thing you can do, but you maybe restricted from doing it. Keep the rpm down, again may not be possible. Keep the water and oil temps in check. The head and block is cooled by the water, the pistons by oil. Even 25 degrees can make a big difference. Monotherm pistons would be great, but I don't know anyone that is currently making them for our application. Coating the tops of the pistons is still an unknow on a common rail. I don't think there is much information on how it will last with the injection pressures we spray at on a common rail. Quite a few are using it (including me), so we should know before long if it's going to last.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps.
Paul
With that said heat in mind would he benefit from a cam? The increase in the amount of air between rotations should help relieve some of the heat, but this is just speculation.
09-01-2009, 01:33 AM
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I went with .020 stock Cummins pistons, no coating. Do a search on those monotherm pistons, I do believe they make them for our application but I'm sure they're pricey, and they're gonna weigh a little more. Big Swole has looked into these, you might try contacting him.
Jared
Jared
09-01-2009, 08:50 AM
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Thanks guys. The last couple posts have got me checking into a couple things. I found out some cool things this morning early and I am waiting to hear more. Ill pass on when I get all info.