Mexstan

Not sure where to post this, so will try it here.

A friend of mine here in Mexico runs a private orphanage and one of their vehicles is a dilapidated 1976 Dodge water tanker. It has a Perkins phase 2 6.2 or 6.4 liter engine with a Lucas CAV injection pump.

They burned a few valves, so removed the head and had that reconditioned. At the same time the shaft that drives the compressor was replaced. The drive gear on this shaft was worn so they replaced it with an aftermarket gear that had no timing marks on it. It looks like this shaft also drives the injector pump. The injector pump was leaking diesel into the crankcase, so they had it 'overhauled'. Now they can't get the engine to start.

Have not yet dug down on this problem, but am guessing that the injector pump timing is now messed up. Any suggestions as to how to time the pump with no timing marks? Can this type of pump be spill timed and if so, how? Will go and look at the problem on Monday. Not sure if the pump is primed correctly either.

Any help will be appreciated.

justinsdad

I really dont know anything about perkins, but there is a perkins room here that should be able to get you an answer.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php

Mexstan

Thanks, will give it a try.

chaikwa

Stan, let me know if you don't make any headway with the thing and I'll call an acquaintance of mine that works on Perkins stuff.

Mexstan

Lots of reads here and in the other forum concerning this problem, but judging from the lack of responses, it seems to have stumped all the experts.
Scott, will take you up on your offer and have you call your Perkins buddy.

Really need to get that truck going tomorrow as the orphanage has water problems and this truck is a lifeline for them.

bigwheels94

Have you checked all the usual suspects? Manual shut down lever, fuel system blead, battery charged up. As for timing, you can use a pulse adapter, & timing light to see where the inj pump is firing, & check that against the rockers to find out if the pump is 180 out, but that is unlikely, as most older perkins use a master spline on the pump shaft. I have also seen the bleeders on the pump not be able to get all the air out, & you have to use a shot of ether to get it to start.
Not definitive, but somewhere to start.

Mexstan

Yes, the obvious things have supposedly been checked by others, but not by me. Will see what I find when I go out there, probably later today.
Unfortunately I do not have access to a pulse adapter.

bigwheels94

You can also pull the #1 inj. Reverse the line, & bleed it off the engine, & see where it's popping.(if it's popping) It will tell you if it's 180 out. If the engine is what I think it is, you can spill port it with the #1 line removed. I'm assuming it's an old 6-354 with the inj pump standing up with the rotor on top.

Mexstan

Thanks for the response.

You got the "old" part right. The injector pump is mounted vertically with three studs in slotted holes in the pump. It is on the LH side of the engine and appears to be driven off the same shaft as the compressor, but at 90 degrees to the compressor shaft.

Did not go out there today like I expected, but may do so tomorrow.
Please explain what you mean by bleeding it off the engine.

It has been many years since I spill timed an engine, so bear with me as I explain what I remember and see if I still have it right and correct me it I am wrong. Think this is also known as drip timing.

-1 Verify that injector pump is fully primed

-2 Remove #1 injector line and reattach in on the pump, but reversed so that I can easily see when the fuel comes out and stops.

-3 Pump the hand pump to pressurize the IP with diesel and maintain pressure.

-4 Rotate the IP until fuel comes out of the #1 line. (Is there no delivery valve to remove first in the injector pump like in a Simms pump?)

-5 Turn the pump shaft back until the fuel just stops dripping at the end of the flow and not the beginning. This may require a bit of rocking the pump shaft back and forth to locate the exact point where the drip stops as it is very touchy.

-6 Ensure that the engine is on TDC with both valves loose.

-7 If required, remove the IP and reinstall it per item 4 above.

-8 Install #1 line correctly and start the engine.

Question. On this engine should the crank be rotated about .125" counterclockwise from TDC to provide the correct timing for the IP?

bigwheels94

You're looking good except you don't need to re install the #1 line as this pump is verticle. Also these pumps won't spill over like some will, you'll need to just watch the port as you roll the engine over. When the fuel reaches the top of the transfer tube you're there.(you may have to roll it over many times to get the fuel up there) I have worked on these things on boats years ago. I don't have the book anymore, but I remember the pump should be set to 21* BTDC. If you can't get it there, but it's pretty close there is another slotted gear on the front of the drive shaft that you can advance to get some more. It's behind the front cover below the pump.
PM returned.

chaikwa

Stan, I've been trying to get ahold of my Perkins contact since you originally posted this. No response from his cell phone. I called his work place this AM and they told me he's on vacation for 2 weeks.

Mexstan

It's running! All that needed doing was to reset the pump timing as it was way off. Also found the starter was almost dead as was the battery. So re-timed the pump, installed a new starter and battery and voila, away it went.

Thanks guys for your help and offers of help.

bigwheels94

Glad to hear it.