I've read a lot over the past little while about the benefits of TCW-3 outboard motor oil mixed with the diesel fuel in our trucks. Also read a lot about additives such as Stanadyne (sp ??), but there seems to be a little controversy over which additives are really beneficial, and what they really do. The comments about the 2 stroke oil have been pretty consistent, so today I added 32 oz to my 64 gal of fuel. (actually about 50 gal by now, I guess)

My cousins were with me, and within about ½ mile, the engine just.......smoothed out. No other way to describe it. The customary "Cummins Clatter" just seemed to smooth out to a smooth chuckling sound, and it feels better thru my throttle foot as well as the seat of my pants. My cousins agreed with me and thought it was amazing. I think it's very clearly telling me it likes the stuff. As I gain time, I'll see about mpg changes - if any - and it already feels a tiny bit stronger, but that's hard to tell, just banging around town in traffic. Many thanks to all those who shared their thoughts on this.

Lar.

I'm interested in the results.

I've read a lot over the past little while about the benefits of TCW-3 outboard motor oil mixed with the diesel fuel in our trucks. Also read a lot about additives such as Stanadyne (sp ??), but there seems to be a little controversy over which additives are really beneficial, and what they really do. The comments about the 2 stroke oil have been pretty consistent, so today I added 32 oz to my 64 gal of fuel. (actually about 50 gal by now, I guess)

My cousins were with me, and within about ½ mile, the engine just.......smoothed out. No other way to describe it. The customary "Cummins Clatter" just seemed to smooth out to a smooth chuckling sound, and it feels better thru my throttle foot as well as the seat of my pants. My cousins agreed with me and thought it was amazing. I think it's very clearly telling me it likes the stuff. As I gain time, I'll see about mpg changes - if any - and it already feels a tiny bit stronger, but that's hard to tell, just banging around town in traffic. Many thanks to all those who shared their thoughts on this.

Lar.

i run tcw-3 from walmart and love it. makes my truck alot quieter.
the mpg is hard to say since i ve just got the smarty recently.
i have ran aleast 10 -15 tanks with it so far and no problems.
i run about 2qt per fillup.


dieselfan

Your running 2 qts in a standard size tank??

Your running 2 qts in a standard size tank??

yeah, sometimes more b/c i try to fill up at half a tank.
its a 35 gal.
no problems.


dieselfan

Has anyone pulled injectors to see what the deposits are like? Does it smoke noticeably more?

Your running 2 qts in a standard size tank??

, so today I added 32 oz to my 64 gal of fuel. (actually about 50 gal by now, I guess)


.....he has an aftermarket tank.

Has anyone pulled injectors to see what the deposits are like? Does it smoke noticeably more?

no i havent pulled my injectors and no mine dosent any more than normal.
the oil is made to burn.


dieselfan

I understand it is made to burn. But...why do you think 2 stroke motors go through plugs all the time, as well as spark arresters?
Even though it is made to burn, there are still deposits that are left behind. I know the mixture isn't as much as a 2 stroke engine, but it is still there.

I understand it is made to burn. But...why do you think 2 stroke motors go through plugs all the time, as well as spark arresters?
Even though it is made to burn, there are still deposits that are left behind. I know the mixture isn't as much as a 2 stroke engine, but it is still there.

2 Strokers are a funny beast, needing alot of tinkering to run right. If the egt's are at 1175 - 1250 there is very little buildup. Even barametric pressure, and temperature can change the way they burn. The oil is now meant to be smokeless and helps control carbon build up. I flew a couple planse with 2 stoke engines so you ahve to learn how to tweek them.

Yeah - then there's always the redneck PhD that thinks if 1:500 is good, 500:1 is better, or that it should be mixed 1:1 500 times, and then loses count.

You really cannot judge Diesel operation by gasoline experience - or inexperience.

Running heavy black un-burned Diesel fuel smoke continuously will carbon-up the injectors and upper cylinder areas, just as burning oil will in a gasser - 2-stroke or 4-stroke.

16oz per 35gal is not an environmental hazard, or even 32oz per - Diesel fuel is a light oil.

Protect your Inj Pump

I understand. I am just posing questions from the other side.
I never did think it is an environmental hazard at all.
I always use PS, but may try the tcw-3 when I get back.

I'm up to about 10K miles on 2-cycle oil... So far the truck loves it it sound more like a 3rd gen now that a 2nd gen. The reason I switched to 2 cycle oil is the fact that the oil will lube both pumps (LP and VP44) then it lubes all the injectors too. Then the oil burns completely (Leaving little to nothing for deposits). It doesn't smoke anymore that standard diesel fuel and it does change the smell for the exhaust a bit...

I've tried it also in a Chevy 6.5L diesel and does the same thing... As a matter of fact the chevy would throw CEL light once in awhile not anymore! :o

I've even got a web page on my use of 2 cycle...
http://www.frontiernet.net/~mopar1973man/2_cycle_oil.htm

Cool - devil's advocate, eh?

Almost fergot - try an oil analysis when tuned for smoke - soot and ash levels may shock some folks, not to mention silicates from that BHSAAF...............

I've been using 2 stroke oil(and filtered engine oil) for years with PowerService, 1-2, 16 oz bottles of oil/tank will not hurt anything IMO. It will help with lubricity issues on VP-44, even more now with ultra low sulphur diesel. Very little deposits if any, will accumulate with smaller amounts of oil used.

Critical factor for reducing deposits, is to ensure engine gets up to normal operating temperature frequently, to burn most/all of the fuel, and any deposits that may have accumulated.

When I changed out my stock injectors at 160,000kms., they were exceptionally clean with no carbon buildup, considering oil useage and mileage( BTW I am at 230,000kms now with original VP-44).

There are also many lubricity additives, with injector cleaners in them already that you can buy at most stores-your call either way. I use them as an extra precaution.[coffee]

Has anyone pulled injectors to see what the deposits are like? Does it smoke noticeably more?

I did after 5K there was nothing different. But I run a bit leaner on the 2 stroke oil. I mix 8oz 2 stroke with 8oz of PowerServe and try put that in at every fill up which is about 25 gals. I am guessing the mixture is about 200:1.

Jim

hmmmm... two stroke oils???

has anyone tried this in 12V?

no i havent pulled my injectors and no mine dosent any more than normal.
the oil is made to burn.


dieselfan

Hm.... [deadhors]

You sure, I was under the impression that 2 stroke oil was designed not to burn?

Jim

...
My cousins were with me, and within about ½ mile, the engine just.......smoothed out. No other way to describe it. The customary "Cummins Clatter" just seemed to smooth out to a smooth chuckling sound, and it feels better thru my throttle foot as well as the seat of my pants.
...
Lar.

There is so much of this I don't understand, but I am thinking that what you are describing is not related to increased lubricity. I am thinking that it is more related to timing. By that I mean the timing of the injected fuel burn rate.

I am basing this on the assumption that as you add more timing, like with a performance box, you get more diesel clatter. And for the most part the opposite is true. So thinking along those lines, I would say that 2 stroke oil slows down the combustion burn rate.

People that run bio fuel or those running motor oil comment about the same thing. But, as usual, I have little clue or personal experience. Sometimes I think we are all pioneers in this.

Jim

You sure, I was under the impression that 2 stroke oil was designed not to burn?
Jim
Semantics here, I think. Yes it's designed to lubricate while it is being combusted ... but it also leaves a film on all surfaces after turned off, if it's a good quality 2-cycle oil. It's specific gravity is almost identical to Diesel fuel (same thickness or weight).

Dieselfan -I think 2 qts in a standard tank is a lot (70:1) when so many are seeing good results with half that. JMO!
(Nice meeting you in Baytown)

RJ

I understand it is made to burn. But...why do you think 2 stroke motors go through plugs all the time, as well as spark arresters?
Even though it is made to burn, there are still deposits that are left behind. I know the mixture isn't as much as a 2 stroke engine, but it is still there.
i have had a evenrude 60 horse outboard since 1990 , have not ever changed plugs, i use it every summer season

i have had a evenrude 60 horse outboard since 1990 , have not ever changed plugs, i use it every summer season

Ok... Give you something to think about... a Sthl Chainsaw using mix fuel (50:1 Gasoline / 2 cycle) and I never changed the spark plug in that saw ever... It now going on 12 years old... I cut up to 12-15 cords minimum every season...

I did after 5K there was nothing different. But I run a bit leaner on the 2 stroke oil. I mix 8oz 2 stroke with 8oz of PowerServe and try put that in at every fill up which is about 25 gals. I am guessing the mixture is about 200:1.

Jim

By Cummins Standards you can burn up to a quart of WEO (Waste Engine Oil) for a full tank of fuel (35 Gallons). Basically 140:1 mix ratio...

So I've been mixing 1 quart of 2 cycle for every 20-25 gallons pumped. So that makes 20 gallons of fuel = (80:1) and 25 Gallons fuel = (100:1) Personally I wouldn't go much lower than the 80:1 ratio though...

Remember WEO has impurities in the oil so it will leave deposits on the pistons, injectors, and valves... Where 2-cycle oil was intended to lubicate and burn off at proper temperature. Also remember that the combustion temperature is quite high these trucks so the 2 cycle will completely burn off.

Semantics here, I think. Yes it's designed to lubricate while it is being combusted ... but it also leaves a film on all surfaces after turned off, if it's a good quality 2-cycle oil. It's specific gravity is almost identical to Diesel fuel (same thickness or weight).

Dieselfan -I think 2 qts in a standard tank is a lot (70:1) when so many are seeing good results with half that. JMO!
(Nice meeting you in Baytown)

RJ

thanks rjohnson, maybe ill cut back to 1qt per fillup since i dont run it dry.
i value your opinion since your in the oil business.
(nice meeting you also and seeing that sharp truck.)

thanks, dieselfan

I'm still trying to understand why folks would rather use products intended for other purposes, even though they might work fine, when designed for diesel fuel additives are readily available, perform several other functions and are cheaper.
Is it because diesel additives don't look "oily" enough?
Well get a clue, looks don't mean anything when it comes to lubricity.

Ok... That's simple...

What is MMO? It's a light weight oil right? But it lubes the pumps and helps the VP44 and LP... But it can be expensive... But PowerService is getting reports that it has alcohol in it. Not a good thing for already thin fuels. It might help with gelling but it don't help with lube... For some of us in the back country and don't have Wal-Marts (200 miles one way!) close by can't just get PS, or other brands easy...

So 2 cycle is at least clean oil it not WEO... 2 cycle oil is in every gas station around me... Lots of chainsaws and other equiptment used...:cool:

Cummins allows I believe up to 5% WEO, seen many truckers do this for years, even now some systems continually dump engine oil into fuel, and is replaced by new oil.

I've tore down and inframed a lot of diesel engines, some with WEO(some in excess of 1,000,000 miles-Cat 3406C,E, Cummins M11,L10, N14, and have yet to see 1 that has much or excess wear on liners, parent bore, or excess carbon buildup in head/pistons/injectors.

If you filter WEO before you dump it in your fuel, you will have very little if any issues. 2 stroke oil is even cleaner to burn. Use it and don't worry about it IF you want to. For the average person it is easier to go and buy a bottle or two of additive instead. At least in my mix, I know I am adding a lubricant for the fuel, to combat now more than ever, the crappy ULSD fuel. [coffee]

Ok... Give you something to think about... a Sthl Chainsaw using mix fuel (50:1 Gasoline / 2 cycle) and I never changed the spark plug in that saw ever... It now going on 12 years old... I cut up to 12-15 cords minimum every season...

You got to turn that saw on, Mopar!
That's why it takes you so long to cut a cord of wood!

...Hey!!! What's THAT noise![laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

You got to turn that saw on, Mopar!
That's why it takes you so long to cut a cord of wood!

...Hey!!! What's THAT noise![laugh] [laugh] [laugh]


Wise ___ !!! I gather you seen the pic in my gallery... I can cut 2 cords in about 4 hours. But getting down the mountain takes another 2 hours...

But since I got a chainsaw handy and it needs 2 cycle oil... Why not give the Cummins a bit of a drink too..[coffee]

anyone run 2-cycle outboard oil in a 04.5+ CR ctd?

I tried my first tank with 1 quart of tcw-3 in it last week. The engine was quieter within 15 miles of dumping it in the tank. I'll check the mileage friday when I top the truck off for the weekend. At 8.00 a gallon it's cheaper than Powerservice.

I tried my first tank with 1 quart of tcw-3 in it last week. The engine was quieter within 15 miles of dumping it in the tank. I'll check the mileage friday when I top the truck off for the weekend. At 8.00 a gallon it's cheaper than Powerservice.

It may seem that way, but at $2.00 per quart, per fill-up, is it really? I get 80 eight ounce doses of Stanadyne Perfomance Formula from a 5 gallon can which comes to around $1.75 per dose, and I get anti-gel in it too.

This seems to be increasing the mileage which powerservice has not in 200,000 miles of hand calculating without adding mmo to it and the 2 stroke oil has quietened the engine down a bunch which powerservice doesn't. I've also tried the Stanadyne and didn't get any mileage improvements from that either. 8.00 is the wal-mart price not mine. The difference in engine tone is what made me try it and they were correct. Even the wife could tell it while riding in the truck not just outside if it.

I'm going to try it, and I'll report back what my results were. My weekly mileage, average speed, yada, yada are so repeatable it's sickening. It will be easy to tell if I experience any improvements over using Stanadyne. Stand by....

Well I've be running 2 stroke for a bit of time now.. I've got some interresting thing to report guys...

Here is my old fuel filter and the fuel drain from the filter housing...
http://www.frontiernet.net/~mopar1973man/images/DSCF1191-640x480.jpg

Take notice the filter media is not stained blue from the 2 stroke oil. Also take notice the mint green color of the fuel. I'm using the Supertech from walmat and trust me its a DARK BLUE! So at 1 quart for 20-25 gallons for fuel is a good mixture. Not too heavy and not to light.

Here is my MPG Graph... I started about 81K with 2 cycle oil... I was also hauling firewood out of the back country so the numbers are hauling heavy and empty...
http://www.frontiernet.net/~mopar1973man/images/MPG_Graph.jpg