I just had a few questions about off-road diesel? I know you aint supposed to use it, but for 2.19 a gallon, it's highly tempting! Will it harm a CTD engine? What are the pros/cons of offroad diesel?

Not worth the risk. If it's red, you're dead. With a lube additive it would be mechanicly fine, but it aint worth the risk.

Chemically, it's actually better from what I hear, due to the fact it has less sulfur taken out of it. The removal process takes out some lubricant as well. I have ~1000 gals of it sittin here and it's so dang tempting, but I just don't have the testicular fortitude to run it on the road, especially to farm shows and the like, that's where I hear of people getting dipped the most.

Yeah, I've heard tell of diesel pickups getting stopped by DOT cruisers and getting their fuel tanks 'dipped.'

In most places offroad/farm diesel and on-road diesel is the exact same thing. The ONLY difference between the two is the offroad stuff has the red dye and a chemical tracer. From the refiners standpoint its easier/cheaper to produce one grade of diesel fuel than it is to refine a low sulfur and a high sulfur version.

I guess it depends on where you live, where you go and how you use your truck. A friend has used diesel pickups for personal transportation for twenty years (Isuzu then Ram) and never even seen anyone checked. My dealer for off-road yesterday was $1.99 and $2.57 for on-road. Some other dealers are as high as $2.79 for on-road. As long as the government allows us to be ripped off to the extent we are, [verymad] I loose no sleep using red.

I keep on-road in my main tank and red in the 100 gal aux which I don't have the key for! [tapdshut] :rolleyes: I am not registered as, nor do I use the truck commercially and wouldn't know where to find a farm show, so I feel my chances are very slim. Your area of the country might be different.

As an aside, I would seriously question the legality of dipping a vehicle like mine, I don't know what law gives them the right on private vehicles. If I did ever have an encounter I would certainly not allow it even on the legal tank without a lot of convincing.

Its the same thing, just has dye. I got red out of the normal pump at Flying J during all of the Hurricanes. Well, it was more pink I guess.

I guess it depends on where you live, where you go and how you use your truck. A friend has used diesel pickups for personal transportation for twenty years (Isuzu then Ram) and never even seen anyone checked. My dealer for off-road yesterday was $1.99 and $2.57 for on-road. Some other dealers are as high as $2.79 for on-road. As long as the government allows us to be ripped off to the extent we are, [verymad] I loose no sleep using red.

I keep on-road in my main tank and red in the 100 gal aux which I don't have the key for! [tapdshut] :rolleyes: I am not registered as, nor do I use the truck commercially and wouldn't know where to find a farm show, so I feel my chances are very slim. Your area of the country might be different.

As an aside, I would seriously question the legality of dipping a vehicle like mine, I don't know what law gives them the right on private vehicles. If I did ever have an encounter I would certainly not allow it even on the legal tank without a lot of convincing.

If you're driving that vehicle on the State maintained public highway, the taxes included in the On-Road diesel help maintain those same roads.
As for the legality of dipping your 'private vehicle', you still have vehicle taxes to pay, State issued tags, State issued Driver's Permit, State Monitored safety inspection programs (in most states), and State enforced motor vehicle laws.
One of which is on the subject of Non-Taxed diesel being used in a vehicle registered for on road use.

Any way you try to justify the act in your own mind, it's stealing. :rolleyes:

"The measure of a man's real character
is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out."
Thomas Babington


Its the same thing, just has dye. I got red out of the normal pump at Flying J during all of the Hurricanes. Well, it was more pink I guess.
For a few month after Katrina, the Feds approved RED to be used on road if the local on-road diesel supplies were limited.
As I recall, that went away late last fall.

I would seriously question the legality of dipping a vehicle like mine, I don't know what law gives them the right on private vehicles.
In several states where people have gone to court citing that tank dipping without probable cause (they actually see you filling up with red) is an illegal search they have won. If someone was to take it to the Supreme Court on the same grounds I'm sure the practice would be deemed unconstitutional.
Commercial drivers give up this right when they sign the dotted line.

In several states where people have gone to court citing that tank dipping without probable cause (they actually see you filling up with red) is an illegal search they have won.

I think the current price of Diesel fuel falls under "probable cause" right there.

The only way offroad would ever be in my truck is if it happened accidentally,
I.E. the pumps were mislabled, or the tanker driver dumped the wrong fuel into the inground tanks.


phox

I think the current price of Diesel fuel falls under "probable cause" right there.
Not sure if you were joking but if not it would be like saying it's ok to pull people over and search them just because they are in a part of town where drugs are cheaper.
I've burned lots of red fuel onroad without problem but don't anymore.
No matter how you try to justify it it's still cheating.

Any way you try to justify the act in your own mind, it's stealing. :rolleyes:

"The measure of a man's real character
is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out."
Thomas Babington

[rant]

And the eight or nine or ten BILLION dollars that Exxon-Mobil made last quarter in profits while some people have to choose between heat and food or prescriptions is the hallmark of a socially responsible corporate philosophy. [laugh] That's on top of their lobbyists successful efforts to procure twenty two billion in tax breaks for E-M and others to search for the very same product they need in order to make grotesque profits - oil! Now who is going to make up that 22 bil for the treasury? I would say you and me, but in reality it is probably going to be our kids. [eyecrazy] At the same time can there be emergency funds made available to help people cope with the high heating costs? - Nope we can't afford it says the U.S. Senate! [verymad]

I agree with Mr. Babington's quote. I just wonder how he would modify it if he was dealing with a government that has obviously sold out to big business at the expense of the citizenry in the 21st century. [rant]

God only holds me accountable for MY OWN actions. ;)

"Just 'cuz someone else does it, doesn't make it right."
My Mom

http://www.conocophillips.com/NR/rdonlyres/11E1D154-487D-4B39-878D-25E8FE7C6C33/0/ProfitsOilVsOtherIndust3rdQ2005.gif
Speaking of affording prescriptions.......
I don't see too many complaining about other industry's profits.

For a few month after Katrina, the Feds approved RED to be used on road if the local on-road diesel supplies were limited.
As I recall, that went away late last fall.
And I pretty sure that even then you were supposed to pay the taxes to the feds when you filed income taxes.

http://www.conocophillips.com/NR/rdonlyres/11E1D154-487D-4B39-878D-25E8FE7C6C33/0/ProfitsOilVsOtherIndust3rdQ2005.gif
Speaking of affording prescriptions.......
I don't see too many complaining about other industry's profits.

Yes oil companies make a lot of money, but they also spend a lot. It takes a lot of money to develop the technology they use on a daily basis. It aint just drill a hole and sell what shoots out.

And I pretty sure that even then you were supposed to pay the taxes to the feds when you filed income taxes.

Ther driver had to pay the road tax same as always, and would have to keep the receipt to prove the tax had been paid in case there was a question.

http://www.conocophillips.com/NR/rdonlyres/11E1D154-487D-4B39-878D-25E8FE7C6C33/0/ProfitsOilVsOtherIndust3rdQ2005.gif[/img]
Speaking of affording prescriptions.......
I don't see too many complaining about other industry's profits.

Amazing, a chart from an oil company publication puts them in a good light and shows their really not thieves after all. Whoda thunk! [laugh] As for drug companies or banks: Please, anyone chime in who loves them too! That's a subject for another day and place. I don't heat my home or feed my truck with Tylenol.

Charts and graphs can be manipulated to show justification for any assertion. Anyone who subscribes to the implications of a chart like that either has personal financial interests in the energy sector or needs to hear from my Nigerian banker for a great oil sector opportunity. :rolleyes:

Bottom line, a lot of people today have to make hard choices to support these obscene profits and nobody in this government that is in power gives a dam_. To me, running red is no more unethical than Deadeye Dick Cheney holding secret meetings with oil company executives to formulate this country's energy policy. You see where that's gotten us! [verymad]

Oil is a limited resource governed by WORLD politics, & situations.
Commodities brokers on Wall Street , not XOM set the crude oil price based on how world events might effect the supply 5 or 6 months from now.
China as well as other developing countries are using more of the world's oil supply as they come out of the stone age.
The huge surplus on the world's oil supply market that used to exist is no more.

As has been said before, Why complain about the prices, it doesn't change anything.
Buy stock in Exxon, share the profits.

On the subject of profit margins. I run a business and it would not survive on the profit margin of an oil company.

Comodity prices change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

Current use
The United States uses 360 million US liquid gallons (1.36 billion litres) of gasoline each day. Western countries have among the highest usage rates per person, while developing nations like China typically have the highest usage per volume. Some countries, e.g. in Europe, impose heavy fuel taxes on fuels such as gasoline, leading to greater efficiency and economy in car design

This equals approx. 131,400,000,000 gal per year.
And breaks down to 525,600,000,000 gal per Quarter.
This is JUST the US.

Sounds a little different when you break that down to profit per unit sold.

Ther driver had to pay the road tax same as always, and would have to keep the receipt to prove the tax had been paid in case there was a question.

I pumped 70 Gals. of offroad into a transfer tank last Wednesday. When I went in to get my reciept, there was a guy with PA tags (this was in Bear, Delaware) just pumping away, straight into the tank of his F250??

I thought, later as I was driving away, what's to stop him from simply saying "Oh, yes officer, this fuel was from August 05, this truck was involved in an accident" (or what ever excuse you can come up with for why you still have red in your tank)?

I know it's not right, but if you accidentially pumped in 20 gallons or so, there is no sense in catching a federal case with $5k in fines when a simple lie will do. :rolleyes:

On the subject of profit margins. I run a business and it would not survive on the profit margin of an oil company.

.

I'm sorry, there is just no other way to put it: That's just a flat dumb statement. [tapdshut]

Every business type has their own margin requirements. A store that sells furniture and turns their money over twice a year needs a completely different margin than a supermarket that turns their inventory over weekly. If you sell furniture you would go broke in short order if sold at supermarket margins. Any supermarket that could make the profit margin of a furniture store could challenge Wal Mart in about a year!

World markets have an effect on the price of oil, no doubt about it. Think about who is making China so rich? What was our trade deficit with them last month? We all save money buying, I'll be nice, "inexpensive" Chinese goods, then they need oil and the price of our oil goes up. What did we really save?

I'll stop it there, I'm trying to keep this on topic and not too political.

The station down the road from us changed their only Diesel pump from on-road to off-road since it would get used quicker since the state trucks can run it. Well they never referenced on the pump or anything that it was off-road,well we ended up pump a full tank of diesel into the CTD. Go into the store to pay and asked if it was on-road diesel(we seen some red drip when pulled the nozzle out),guy was like nope its off road. Their was a state trooper in there and when we said we filled the truck with it they both said not to worry about it mostly everyone fills up with it. So every-once- in awhile we fill teh truck with 15-20gals of off-road and the rest with on-road,when it comes time to put the truck on the market to sell we are going to do a full system flushing and change the filters so who ever buys it does not get screwed.

Jeff