This is page one of the article. washingtonpost.com is free to join and sometimes has some good reading.




Facing Obama, Iran Suddenly Hedges on Talks


TEHRAN, Nov. 12 -- Since 2006, Iran's leaders have called for direct, unconditional talks with the United States to resolve international concerns over their nuclear program. But as an American administration open to such negotiations prepares to take power, Iran's political and military leaders are sounding suddenly wary of President-elect Barack Obama (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Barack+Obama?tid=informline).
"People who put on a mask of friendship, but with the objective of betrayal, and who enter from the angle of negotiations without preconditions, are more dangerous," Hossein Taeb, deputy commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Iranian+Revolutionary+Guard+Corps?tid=informline), said Wednesday, according to the semiofficial Mehr News Agency.
"The power holders in the new American government are trying to regain their lost influence with a tactical change in their foreign diplomacy. They are shifting from a hard conflict to a soft attack," Taeb said.
For Iran's leaders, the only state of affairs worse than poor relations with the United States may be improved relations. The Shiite Muslim clerics who rule the country came to power after ousting Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, a U.S.-backed autocrat, in their 1979 Islamic revolution. Opposition to the United States, long vilified as the "great Satan" here in Friday sermons, remains one of the main pillars of Iranian politics.




President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Mahmoud+Ahmadinejad?tid=informline) sent Obama a congratulatory letter last week, but by Wednesday his welcoming tone had dissipated. "It doesn't make any difference for us who comes and who goes," he said in a speech in the northern town of Sari. "It's their actions which are studied by the Iranian and world nations."
On Wednesday, Iran test-fired a two-stage, solid-fuel rocket, Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammed Najjar announced on state television. He said the missile had a range of 1,200 miles -- meaning that it could reach Israel and U.S. targets in the Middle East.
In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Bryan+Whitman?tid=informline) said that he could not "independently confirm media reports indicating an Iranian missile launch," but added that "Iran's missile program is a concern that poses a threat to its neighbors in the region and beyond."
In recent interviews, advisers to Ahmadinejad said the new U.S. administration would have to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq, show respect for Iran's system of rule by a supreme religious leader, and withdraw its objections to Iran's nuclear program before it can enter into negotiations with the Iranian government.
"The U.S. must prove that their policies have changed and are now based upon respecting the rights of the Iranian nation and mutual respect," said Mojtaba Samareh Hashemi, the president's closest adviser.
Ahmadinejad's media adviser, Mehdi Kalhor, said that "in fair circumstances" Iran would be open to talks. "But that is not when you have a bayonet pressed at your artery," he added, referring to the U.S. forces deployed in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Persian+Gulf?tid=informline).
Iran's leaders have long said they want to resolve the international concerns over the country's nuclear program through negotiations. Western governments have expressed concern that Iran's enrichment of uranium and other nuclear activities have been part of a weapons program.
The Bush administration has demanded that Iran suspend uranium enrichment before talks can take place, a precondition that Iran has rejected on the grounds that the nuclear program is for peaceful purposes. In 2006, Ahmadinejad said that Iran "is after negotiations, but fair and just negotiations. They must be without any conditions."

This sounds like to me Ahmadinejad was figuring on getting a good buddy of a US President by Obama being elected just because his name has a likeliness to some of the folks living in his country and decided that isn't what he got...

That should be a good thing, right?

Iran is and has been bonkers for decades now! Does this clown really think that we are just going to immediately befriend him and his military and their every day threatening demeaner to many countries other than it's neighbors and let them build nukes on the basis that they are "for peaceful purposes"...

Gimme a break!

Does this clown really think that we are just going to immediately befriend him and his military and their every day threatening demeaner to many countries other than it's neighbors and let them build nukes on the basis that they are "for peaceful purposes"...



Of course he does.......He apparently read Obamas book and knows that Obama has pledged to side with the Muslims if the political winds shift. I don't know how anybody could not see this coming.

Does this clown really think that we are just going to immediately befriend him and his military and their every day threatening demeaner to many countries other than it's neighbors and let them build nukes on the basis that they are "for peaceful purposes"...
Gimme a break!
He has sworn, to the death, to wipe Israel OFF the face of the earth!! He has made this announcement to the entire world publicly and loudly defying the UN, The U.S.A. and the world to try and do anything about it.
Now do you understand why Israel and the friends of Israel are alarmed and anxious about the loyalties of our Pres. elect??
The missles that they currently have can reach Paris, France AND they are not very far from putting nuclear warheads on them.
What should Israel do?? Sit around and wait for Iran to lob a few over their way?? It would only take 3 nukes to completely devastate the entire nation of Israel.

And this is the man who Pres. elect Obama wants to sit down and talk to, reversing the preconditions that have been in place LONG before the Bush Administration. I guess even the Washington Post "eyes" are open and they are now reporting closer to the truth that Iran is turning against their Muslim brother, Obama, despite his willingness to break traditon and work something out.

Iran cannot be trusted as long as this clown is in control. Iran is meddling in the affairs of Iraq, trying to prevent the work that is being done there in Iraq establishing self-governorship. Iran is also arming terrorists who kill U.S. soldiers and sending them into Iraq and throughout the region to carry out their mission of death to any who don't believe as they do.

He has sworn, to the death, to wipe Israel OFF the face of the earth!! He has made this announcement to the entire world publicly and loudly defying the UN, The U.S.A. and the world to try and do anything about it.
Now do you understand why Israel and the friends of Israel are alarmed and anxious about the loyalties of our Pres. elect??
The missles that they currently have can reach Paris, France AND they are not very far from putting nuclear warheads on them.
What should Israel do?? Sit around and wait for Iran to lob a few over their way?? It would only take 3 nukes to completely devastate the entire nation of Israel.

And this is the man who Pres. elect Obama wants to sit down and talk to, reversing the preconditions that have been in place LONG before the Bush Administration. I guess even the Washington Post "eyes" are open and they are now reporting closer to the truth that Iran is turning against their Muslim brother, Obama, despite his willingness to break traditon and work something out.

Iran cannot be trusted as long as this clown is in control. Iran is meddling in the affairs of Iraq, trying to prevent the work that is being done there in Iraq establishing self-governorship. Iran is also arming terrorists who kill U.S. soldiers and sending them into Iraq and throughout the region to carry out their mission of death to any who don't believe as they do.

My post should have said "their every day threatening demeaner to many countries other than JUST it's neighbors"

Iran has never and will never be "allies" with ANY country...

My post should have said "their every day threatening demeaner to many countries other than JUST it's neighbors"

Iran has never and will never be "allies" with ANY country...
YET, people who are on the ground in Iran report that the average Iranian is pro-American. The common Iranian is interested and desireous of our culture. They love us. It is the radical Islamists, who are the ruling voice, that are spewing all the anti-U.S.A. hatred propaganda.

However, here's the catch. Although the common Iranian is Pro-American, they are VERY patriotic to their country. Should the U.S.A. or Israel make any pre-emptive strike to stop the craziness of Ahmadinejad and his cronies, the Iranian people would then revert to their patriotism and join in the venemous hatred of the Western nations.

So what to do?? How does anyone stop the careening collision course Ahmadinejad has put his nation on?? It's going to happen as long as he is the dictator or leader of Iran. Pre-emptive Special OPS assination strike??

YET, people who are on the ground in Iran report that the average Iranian is pro-American. The common Iranian is interested and desireous of our culture. They love us. It is the radical Islamists, who are the ruling voice, that are spewing all the anti-U.S.A. hatred propaganda.

However, here's the catch. Although the common Iranian is Pro-American, they are VERY patriotic to their country. Should the U.S.A. or Israel make any pre-emptive strike to stop the craziness of Ahmadinejad and his cronies, the Iranian people would then revert to their patriotism and join in the venemous hatred of the Western nations.

So what to do?? How does anyone stop the careening collision course Ahmadinejad has put his nation on?? It's going to happen as long as he is the dictator or leader of Iran. Pre-emptive Special OPS assination strike??

It would have to be something special ops and intended to blame Russia or Venezuela [laugh] or you're right, we will **** off all the patriots of Iran and end up having to go to war with them, no doubt about it. They would give us a bit more of a fit than Iraq did since Hussein sold EVERYTHING he had to Iran, but it could still be done...then we can stamp USDA Approved on the map and take all their oil for free [coffee]

The way Obama talked during the election and what he wrote in his book I feel Obama will vote to do nothing about Iran until they make the first move and sadly by then all that would be left of Israel will be a smoking hole . Fortunately Israel lacks the kind of faith in Iran that Obama does in them to do what is right and will make the first move when we don't . In the end the liberals will be screaming for sanctions against Israel and blame it all on them . Obama does owe Iran a favor for all the campaign money they sent him during the election , sounds like they are just looking for it now . If he doesn't handle this right for them they may request a refund . [nonono]

I think you guys give a little too much credence to the hot air bellowing out of the Iranian govt. What could they possibly gain by destroying Israel? I have no doubt that they wish they could engage Israel, but they know it would be the end of them if they did. Kim Jong Il was doing the same crap a few years ago, but since you guys didn't have Obama to blame for it, it was seen for what it was. We made deals with the North Koreans and it went away for the most part. The best thing about having nukes for these bungholes is that it gives them a strong bargaining position. Iran is not going to nuke Israel. If you are going to invade or nuke someone you don't tell the whole freaking world you are going to do it. They don't want nukes to launch them, they want them so they'll have a stronger position in the world and can BLUFF other countries into getting what they want. So why all the talk? If they've got these missiles that can "hit Paris" why don't they shut up and just launch them? They don't because that's not the point, it's about money, trade, and power. That little jerk in Iran isn't going to do jack, he's just a mouth.

There is a Catch 22 here tho. Let's say the world shifted away from fossil fuels (not going to happen anytime soon) relatively quickly. All of the sudden nations like Iran would get to the point of having nothing to lose as their economies would shatter. That's just one of the reasons why it will be so hard for the world to get away from oil, their will be some countries like Iran that have little else to make real money, and that could get very dangerous very quickly. For the moment tho, he'll full of it and isn't going to follow through with any of his over-blown lame threats.

I think you guys give a little too much credence to the hot air bellowing out of the Iranian govt. What could they possibly gain by destroying Israel?

.



What could they possibly gain by strapping a bomb on and marching into a crowd of women an children and killing them ? What did Ben Laden gain by financing 9-11 ? Do you really think these people care about themselves or even there country enough to hesitate even a little in there mission of death . They seem to care even less about what other people think and you think we should all just let them build there bombs ? I wonder who you voted for , not really . [duhhh]

I think you guys give a little too much credence to the hot air bellowing out of the Iranian govt. What could they possibly gain by destroying Israel? I have no doubt that they wish they could engage Israel, but they know it would be the end of them if they did. Kim Jong Il was doing the same crap a few years ago, but since you guys didn't have Obama to blame for it, it was seen for what it was. We made deals with the North Koreans and it went away for the most part. The best thing about having nukes for these bungholes is that it gives them a strong bargaining position. Iran is not going to nuke Israel. If you are going to invade or nuke someone you don't tell the whole freaking world you are going to do it. They don't want nukes to launch them, they want them so they'll have a stronger position in the world and can BLUFF other countries into getting what they want. So why all the talk? If they've got these missiles that can "hit Paris" why don't they shut up and just launch them? They don't because that's not the point, it's about money, trade, and power. That little jerk in Iran isn't going to do jack, he's just a mouth.

There is a Catch 22 here tho. Let's say the world shifted away from fossil fuels (not going to happen anytime soon) relatively quickly. All of the sudden nations like Iran would get to the point of having nothing to lose as their economies would shatter. That's just one of the reasons why it will be so hard for the world to get away from oil, their will be some countries like Iran that have little else to make real money, and that could get very dangerous very quickly. For the moment tho, he'll full of it and isn't going to follow through with any of his over-blown lame threats.

I can tell you never spent anytime in the Middle East, If you had you would KNOW that his threats are not bluff. They are being lead by Religious Zealots and believe that it is not only the right thing to do but also their life sworn DUTY to destroy Isreal.

Iran's President, ALL-MAD_IN_THE_HEAD, was the officer who led the Iranian Forces attack AGAINST our embassy back during the Carter administration. It WAS what put him in the political position he is in today. IF anyone in our gov or military reaches out to him in some favorable manner, they should be immediately relieved of whatever gov position they might hold.

CD

Of course he does.......He apparently read Obamas book and knows that Obama has pledged to side with the Muslims if the political winds shift. I don't know how anybody could not see this coming.

they were too busy drinking the kool-aid to pull their head and see the light.

I can tell you never spent anytime in the Middle East, If you had you would KNOW that his threats are not bluff. They are being lead by Religious Zealots and believe that it is not only the right thing to do but also their life sworn DUTY to destroy Isreal.

I think it's fair to say that there is a rather large difference between guerilla warfare which can be isolated, sometimes anonymous (sometimes not), not generally directly linked with any single govt and a nuclear strike wiping another country off the map. AGAIN I pose the question. Why would he telegraph his punch then? Why all the rhetoric? Why doesn't he just shut up and do it? Why didn't North Korea just nuke South Korea like they've been blubbering about? Sure they talk some horribly insane talk, so if it's so fundamentally important to their cause why don't they just do it?

They always seem to blow up an embassy or blow themselves up in a crowd of innocent people or any number of one hit wonders. They don't organize as a nation and attack with nukes or start a full scale invasion. Of course there has been wars in the past with Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq....etc etc. However, when it looks that WINNING isn't gonna be the outcome they all pull out and start trash talking again. If it was such a fundamental mission from God they should all fight until their last breath. Yet they don't. Why is it that Osama runs and hides but he encourages everyone else to give up their life for such a high cause and honor.

Can you seriously say that if he'll blow up an embassy he must be willing to nuke Israel? No, you can't. He wants money and power and a place in the world for his people. He can't accomplish any of these goals if he's dead. I just love how they romantically preach death for their God yet they run scared and hide when death knocks on their door. They don't have to believe this crap to preach it. The idea is to get someone else to believe and carry out the cowardly acts for them. If that moron nukes Israel he's signing his own death warrant and he knows it.

It's funny how you guys don't believe your own politicians namely the ones you don't like, yet when some nut job from Iran blows his lard mouth you guys believe everything the moron threatens. At least be consistent and disregard everything all the people you hate say.

I think it's fair to say that there is a rather large difference between guerilla warfare which can be isolated, sometimes anonymous (sometimes not), not generally directly linked with any single govt and a nuclear strike wiping another country off the map. AGAIN I pose the question. Why would he telegraph his punch then? Why all the rhetoric? Why doesn't he just shut up and do it? Why didn't North Korea just nuke South Korea like they've been blubbering about? Sure they talk some horribly insane talk, so if it's so fundamentally important to their cause why don't they just do it?

They always seem to blow up an embassy or blow themselves up in a crowd of innocent people or any number of one hit wonders. They don't organize as a nation and attack with nukes or start a full scale invasion. Of course there has been wars in the past with Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq....etc etc. However, when it looks that WINNING isn't gonna be the outcome they all pull out and start trash talking again. If it was such a fundamental mission from God they should all fight until their last breath. Yet they don't. Why is it that Osama runs and hides but he encourages everyone else to give up their life for such a high cause and honor.

Can you seriously say that if he'll blow up an embassy he must be willing to nuke Israel? No, you can't. He wants money and power and a place in the world for his people. He can't accomplish any of these goals if he's dead. I just love how they romantically preach death for their God yet they run scared and hide when death knocks on their door. They don't have to believe this crap to preach it. The idea is to get someone else to believe and carry out the cowardly acts for them. If that moron nukes Israel he's signing his own death warrant and he knows it.

It's funny how you guys don't believe your own politicians namely the ones you don't like, yet when some nut job from Iran blows his lard mouth you guys believe everything the moron threatens. At least be consistent and disregard everything all the people you hate say.

Thank you for proving my point, you don't have a clue about the mindset over there and you even go so far as to lump North Korea in with the Middle East. [laugh] North Korea does not wish to nuke South Korea because they one day hope to reunite with their wayward brothers. The same can not be said for the Arabs and the Jews, that argument just doesn't hold water.

Iranians do NOT think like you, they have different values and you are basing your arguments on the values we hold here in the West. I tell you what, get off YOUR lard butt and go there to see for yourself, you will quickly learn just how completely misguided your observations are ;)

"People who put on a mask of friendship, but with the objective of betrayal"H-E-L-L-O!!! Wasn't that what his entire campaign for the Presidency was like?[duhhh] That was a tough one to call.[duhhh]

Little bit of difference in whether to believe a creer liar in politics or somebody that murders and imprisons their opposition to achieve office.
Also, if getting them is so easy, why did the Russians give up hunting them in those mountains after years of war? They didn't even have the left wing speed bump we have to slow them down.

Also, if getting them is so easy, why did the Russians give up hunting them in those mountains after years of war?

We (Infidels) fight them over real estate, they (muslim devils) fight us to get home to their heaven.

All a matter of commitment.

Deesil Iran is not going to nuke Israel. If you are going to invade or nuke someone you don't tell the whole freaking world you are going to do it. They don't want nukes to launch them, they want them so they'll have a stronger position in the world and can BLUFF other countries into getting what they want. So why all the talk? If they've got these missiles that can "hit Paris" why don't they shut up and just launch them? They don't because that's not the point, it's about money, trade, and power. That little jerk in Iran isn't going to do jack, he's just a mouth.
In case you missed that news article in the beginning of this thread, they are launching missles and letting the world know that they are!! Plus they are not very far away from having the level of enriched uranium they need to make nuclear warheads.

Here's the telegraph to the world: "On Wednesday, Iran test-fired a two-stage, solid-fuel rocket, Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammed Najjar announced on state television. He said the missile had a range of 1,200 miles -- meaning that it could reach Israel and U.S. targets in the Middle East. " Wash. Post.

ALL-MAD_IN_THE_HEAD, (I like that name/title) is sworn to the death to destroy Israel as part of his belief that it is his mission from Allah. These folks are not like us westerners. When they swear to the death about something, nothing but their death will stop them from completing what they swore to. These people kill their relatives and immediate family members for changing from Islam to any other type of religion.

Do you know that there are parts of Israel, right now today, that have missles fired into their towns at least 3-4 times a week!! Right now this is happening from former PLO people, hammas or whoever they are because there is NO abiding together between the Islamics and Jews!! Where is the world of nations response to these atrocities?? Innocent women and children live in fear daily of missles dropping on unarmed civilians, just because they're Jews.

There is only one of three options that are going to stop All-Mad-In-The-Head from completing his mission to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, 1. Some kind of action from the U.S.A. 2. A pre-emptive strike from Israel or 3. The people of Iran depose this dictator and remove the Islamic radicals from power in Iran.

None of these options look very good for all concerned and will our new Pres-elect have the fortitude to do what's right?? Hopefully Israel can hold out until next year to see what kind of "steel" is in the spine of our new President.

Thank you for proving my point, you don't have a clue about the mindset over there and you even go so far as to lump North Korea in with the Middle East. [laugh] North Korea does not wish to nuke South Korea because they one day hope to reunite with their wayward brothers. The same can not be said for the Arabs and the Jews, that argument just doesn't hold water.

Iranians do NOT think like you, they have different values and you are basing your arguments on the values we hold here in the West. I tell you what, get off YOUR lard butt and go there to see for yourself, you will quickly learn just how completely misguided your observations are ;)

So why don't they just do it oh wise one of all things middle eastern? Please enlighten me to as why they keep talking and not doing crap. Why would they tell the world what they are going to do? I don't care what you think you know, they aren't going to do anything other than what they've been doing, a lot of talk and a few small guerilla attacks. I can't wait to see how you spin this one. [laugh]

Oh and by the way, let me help you out. I didn't "lump" North Korea with the middle east. I was merely mentioning yet another fanatic with a big mouth that didn't have the convictions to follow through with all of his BS. Just like the psycho in Iran, he's not going to do crap. He doesn't have the sack to die for his beliefs.

So why don't they just do it oh wise one of all things middle eastern? Please enlighten me to as why they keep talking and not doing crap.

Give them time, they are on their own timetable not yours.

Why would they tell the world what they are going to do? I don't care what you think you know, they aren't going to do anything other than what they've been doing, a lot of talk and a few small guerilla attacks. I can't wait to see how you spin this one. [laugh]

Not spinning anything, you can't grasp this simple concept because you are thinking like a Westerner. If you lived among them as I did, you would understand how completely un-educated you are on the subject.

Oh and by the way, let me help you out. I didn't "lump" North Korea with the middle east. I was merely mentioning yet another fanatic with a big mouth that didn't have the convictions to follow through with all of his BS. Just like the psycho in Iran, he's not going to do crap. He doesn't have the sack to die for his beliefs.

You can't help me out with anything you do not understand ;) He has something you do not, and that is conviction in his core belief that the Jews MUST be eradicated from his land. Unfortunately that is all he needs to do the unspeakable and he KNOWS weak Infidels like you have no clue just how dangerous he truly is.... As a matter of fact he is counting on the fact that all Americans are as naive as you.

Fortunately...we are not :)

The same can not be said for the Arabs and the Jews, that argument just doesn't hold water. Iranians do NOT think like you, they have different values and you are basing your arguments on the values we hold here in the West.

Well not to question your high authority on the subject. Since it's apparent that you lived there and all. However, umm... you do know that they aren't Arabs right? [laugh][laugh] Try Persian. [laugh]

Not spinning anything, you can't grasp this simple concept because you are thinking like a Westerner. If you lived among them as I did, you would understand how completely un-educated you are on the subject.


What in the hell were you doing living in Iran anyway? [coffee]

Well not to question your high authority on the subject. Since it's apparent that you lived there and all. However, umm... you do know that they aren't Arabs right? [laugh][laugh] Try Persian. [laugh]

How did you come about your expertise? Book learning?

He has something you do not, and that is conviction in his core belief that the Jews MUST be eradicated from his land. Unfortunately that is all he needs to do the unspeakable and he KNOWS weak Infidels like you have no clue just how dangerous he truly is.... As a matter of fact he is counting on the fact that all Americans are as naive as you.
Fortunately...we are not :)
There ya go Lary. That's the major point so many forget. The Islamics think that Israel has NO right to the land they now occupy. Therefore it's just a little jump to the next conclusion that Israel needs to be exterminated like they are an alien bug infestation. Iran's leaders are NOT the only middle easterners that feel that way either.

Well not to question your high authority on the subject. Since it's apparent that you lived there and all. However, umm... you do know that they aren't Arabs right? [laugh][laugh] Try Persian. [laugh]

Persians ruled the area known as the "land between the Tigris and the Euphrates" It would today encompass Iraq, Southwestern Iran, the Khūzestān Province and Southeastern Turkey and I believe a chunk of Syria.

With Farsi being one of my secondary languages and trained in the customs of the people there, I believe I am fairly aware of who they are ;)

What in the hell were you doing living in Iran anyway? [coffee]

I was protecting Freedom and the United States of America.

There ya go Lary. That's the major point so many forget. The Islamics think that Israel has NO right to the land they now occupy. Therefore it's just a little jump to the next conclusion that Israel needs to be exterminated like they are an alien bug infestation. Iran's leaders are NOT the only middle easterners that feel that way either.

Very true and sadly far too many Americans think that they have the same values of life and principles as we do. That could not be any further from the truth.

Persians ruled the area known as the "land between the Tigris and the Euphrates" It would today encompass Iraq, Southwestern Iran, the Khūzestān Province and Southeastern Turkey and I believe a chunk of Syria.

With Farsi being one of my secondary languages and trained in the customs of the people there, I believe I am fairly aware of who they are ;)

Can you guess where I got the following from? The Iraqis are gonna be really ****** when they find out they are actually Persian according to you [laugh] Did you just paste something from before the 7th century? [laugh]

What territory do Arabs inhabit? The Arab conquests of the seventh century spread the Arabic language and civilization from North Africa to central Asia. Under the Islamic caliphate, Arabic became the language of scripture, government, law, literature, and science. Majority Arabic-speaking countries remain in southwest Asia, Egypt, and North Africa. The Arab League includes Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, the Palestine Liberation Organization, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.
Note the absent country: Iran. Alone among the Middle Eastern peoples conquered by the Arabs, the Iranians did not lose their language or their identity. Ethnic Persians make up 60 percent of modern Iran, and modern Persian is the official language. (Persian also has official status in Afghanistan, where Dari, or Afghan Persian, is one of two official languages.) In addition, the majority of Iranians are Shiite Muslims while most Arabs are Sunni Muslims. So Iran fails most of the four-part test of language, ancestry, religion, and culture.

What territory do Arabs inhabit?

You quantified it Deesil, that is what we are talking about.

As unpleaseant as it may be at some point you have to pick a side.

You quantified it Deesil, that is what we are talking about.

As unpleaseant as it may be at some point you have to pick a side.

That's all you could pick out of that entire comment? [laugh]

That's all you could pick out of that entire comment? [laugh]

Thats what they are killing for, simple enough?

Thats what they are killing for, simple enough?

Who, Arabs? This ENTIRE thread is about Iran. Once again, they aren't arabs, they are Persians. That's like calling Americans Mexicans....and then saying "close enough" [duhhh] How are we supposed to engage these people in any way if we don't even know who the hell they are? [laugh]

Who, Arabs? This ENTIRE thread is about Iran. Once again, they aren't arabs, they are Persians. That's like calling Americans Mexicans....and then saying "close enough" [duhhh] How are we supposed to engage these people in any way if we don't even know who the hell they are? [laugh]

I'd suggest you engage them the same way I did in the 1st gulf war and in OIF.

The Persians were divided folks long before UK and US oil interests developed the wealth (and borders) they now all enjoy.

Who, Arabs? This ENTIRE thread is about Iran. Once again, they aren't arabs, they are Persians. That's like calling Americans Mexicans....and then saying "close enough" [duhhh] How are we supposed to engage these people in any way if we don't even know who the hell they are? [laugh]
I think the thread started out as a discussion concerning the leaders of Iran and the U.S.A. In Post #6 I made the distinction between the leaders of Iran and the common Iranian, however they are all Muslim concerning their lifestyle and especially the leaders who are radical Islamics/Muslims.
Muslims and Jews willl never get along no matter what peace treaty is signed or agreed to. That feud has been going on for over 1,500 years dating back to the account in the Bible and will only be resolved when the nations of the world gather and surround Israel with the purpose of annihilating her. At that time the final chapter of this feud will be written and the war over who owns the land of Jerusalem will finally be over. Until that time there will be much anguish, fighting and dishonesty concerning any negotiations between the Israeli's and the Islamic/Muslim communities.

U.S.A. BEWARE. Let us NOT join the people of the world who view Israel as the enemy of the world that so many nations proclaim today as in the past. There is a promise and a curse to all who are either friend or foe to Israel, God's chosen people.

Can you guess where I got the following from? The Iraqis are gonna be really ****** when they find out they are actually Persian according to you [laugh] Did you just paste something from before the 7th century? [laugh]

I tried to explain to you where the word Persia comes from, if it does not fit your needs I can not do anything about that. The simple truth of it is they have common views with the citizens of that region because at one time they were all lumped together and not as divided into ethnic groups as they are now.

You seem to be fixated on my generalization of the Arab/Jew mindset, you should not be, they share a common bond with the Iranians and that is the desire to rid the world of Israel.

You also do not understand that if it cost them fully half their citizens to accomplish that goal, they would consider it a worth while trade off. You can argue until you are blue in the face and nothing will change the fact that you can not judge the Iranians actions through western eyes.

We had the same problem with the Japanese in WWII, it took a long time for us to understand them because of the huge culture difference. We made mistakes early in the war because of our lack of understanding on what actually motivated the enemy.

Move across the Atlantic to pre WWII Germany and you have a nutcase named Hitler that was spouting hate and threatening all his neighbors. There were many people like you that sat back and said "he is only bluffing" and will never actually strike out as he say's he will.

Well we all know where that ended up don't we? We need to learn from history and not just ignore it so we can all hold hands and sing songs around the campfire.

Evil exists on a scale that you simply can not imagine until you experience it first hand. Your whacked out liberal College Professor has no clue because like you he has never left the safety of the nest.

We need to learn from history and not just ignore it so we can all hold hands and sing songs around the campfire.

Evil exists on a scale that you simply can not imagine until you experience it first hand.

I agree, but have a question. I know some of the 'warm & fuzzy' people will have a fit with what I'm about to say, but too bad.

When we are attacked, not just 'threatened', but literally attacked like we were on 9/11, why do we waste time, money and resources trying to 'find' people or weapons or whatever. Why don't we just go to the country in question and wipe them off the face of the earth? We certainly have the fire power to do so. It would be less costly in the long run, both in terms of money and people. Would innocent people be killed? Yep. But aren't they being killed NOW too? What's the difference if we kill thousands of them in one swipe or spread it out over a period of years? They're still gone either way. And so, it would seem, would be the problem of that particular group from attacking us again. It might even deter other groups from contemplating an attack.

chaikwa.

While I am certainly NOT an Obama fan and I cringed when he was elected, the fact remains he is the President of the country I love and I hope he crushes Iran if/when that confrontation presents its self.

One thing is absolutely for sure. If we do go to war with Iran, it will not be like Irag or Afghanistan. There will be no room for political correctness. They are a formidable adversary.



Tim

[QUOTE=Lary Ellis (Top);2279452


Move across the Atlantic to pre WWII Germany and you have a nutcase named Hitler that was spouting hate and threatening all his neighbors. There were many people like you that sat back and said "he is only bluffing" and will never actually strike out as he say's he will.



[/QUOTE]

I'm gonna do what just about everyone else on this board does. I'm going to pick one part of your comment and harp only on that.

Comparing Hilter to All-mad-in-the-head? You can't be serious. Ok they are both nuts, but that's about where the similarities. End. Now I will admit I wasn't around for WW2 and maybe you were, but I don't think history shows as the US thinking Hitler was "bluffing". Most of the US hadn't a clue as to who he was and probably still didn't even after he invaded Poland. When people heard he invaded Poland I think the general concensus was "who cares". Then he invaded France and well still who cares. [laugh] I think saying that most Americans saw Hitler as "bluffing" is more than just a tad short sighted.

It just a bit unsettling that religious right is so concerned about the Jews to the point that they would send more AMERICANS to die just to fend off a possible future attack on the Jewish homeland. Iran is not Iraq and it would not be pretty. We would win of course. But how many more Americans need to die in that hellhole sandpit?

So what are you guys saying. You all seem to agree that everything that wacko says is going to come to pass. So what do you propose? All I've seen is a bunch of crying about how bad Iran is....what do you think we should do about it?

It would seem that the consensus on this board would be to invade Iran before they can attack Israel. That would be just brilliant! Let's invade everyone at once! Talk about Hitler [laugh][laugh][laugh] I love how a lot of you seem to believe God is all powerful, yet the American military must protect Israel [laugh]

I'm gonna do what just about everyone else on this board does. I'm going to pick one part of your comment and harp only on that.

Comparing Hilter to All-mad-in-the-head? You can't be serious. Ok they are both nuts, but that's about where the similarities. End. Now I will admit I wasn't around for WW2 and maybe you were, but I don't think history shows as the US thinking Hitler was "bluffing". Most of the US hadn't a clue as to who he was and probably still didn't even after he invaded Poland. When people heard he invaded Poland I think the general concensus was "who cares". Then he invaded France and well still who cares. [laugh] I think saying that most Americans saw Hitler as "bluffing" is more than just a tad short sighted.


If you are going to try to step up and pick apart things I say, you should at least read them first [laugh] I never said the US thought Hitler was bluffing, in reality a major portion of the World thought so. I also did not say that most of Americans saw Hitler as Bluffing, these are your words.

In Britain Winston Churchill had a hell of a fight on his hands in Parliament because so many of them believed as you do, that all his ranting and raving was bluff and posturing.

The truth is he was VERY unpopular because he was trying to get Britain to prepare for what was coming. Even though Hitler had invaded Poland, there was still opposition in Parliament that thought they could just sit down and a have a merry old cup of tea with him and solve the issue.

Thanks to Churchill's fight against those liberal pansies, Britain had developed the Spitfire in preparation of the invasion by the Germans and soundly defeated the German Luftwaffe, holding them at bay long enough for the US to get involved.

It should not have taken so long for us to get involved in the war, except that the liberals in this country even then had strong enough voices to keep America confused about Hitlers intention. So many believed he would stop in Poland because they refused to believe the man was capable of attempting world domination.

It just a bit unsettling that religious right is so concerned about the Jews to the point that they would send more AMERICANS to die just to fend off a possible future attack on the Jewish homeland. Iran is not Iraq and it would not be pretty. We would win of course. But how many more Americans need to die in that hellhole sandpit?

Unfortunately Freedom is not free and it has a huge cost in lives to be paid to keep it from disappearing. The Jews have been persecuted for far too long and like it or not, they now have a home. We helped to free them and set up that new home and we MUST continue to help them or stand back and watch them all be slaughtered.

That might be OK for a guy like you, but most Americans thankfully believe otherwise. No one likes having to fight in that hell hole sand pit as you put it, but sometimes you simply have to knuckle down and do something because it is the RIGHT thing to do.

So what are you guys saying. You all seem to agree that everything that wacko says is going to come to pass. So what do you propose? All I've seen is a bunch of crying about how bad Iran is....what do you think we should do about it?

I have not seen anyone here say that everything that wacko say's will come true, please point that out to me. I also do not see anyone crying about how bad Iran is, on the contrary just people like me trying to give you some insight into what is REALLY happening in that part of the world.

Make no mistake, Iran is only ONE faction in that area that wishes to obliterate Israel once and for all, and given the opportunity the odds of them trying it are far better than not. Again as I stated earlier, it is in their core belief system and matters not what you or I believe to them.

It would seem that the consensus on this board would be to invade Iran before they can attack Israel. That would be just brilliant!

You and I finally agree on something, though the word Invade is not accurate for what is coming. Sooner or later someone will have to remove Iran's ability to make Nuclear weapons. This MUST happen simply because to ignore it and let them have Nukes to go with the delivery systems they are already developing would be insane.

I doubt we will be involved other than in a support role as Israel will never allow that to happen, and rightfully so.... her very existence and much of the free world depends on it.

Let's invade everyone at once! Talk about Hitler [laugh][laugh][laugh] I love how a lot of you seem to believe God is all powerful, yet the American military must protect Israel [laugh]

Now you are being ridiculous, no one has suggested we invade everyone at once. The fact that the US and the UN are sworn to protect Israel has little to do with how strong anyone believes his or her God to be.

I would guess it is probably not a stretch of the imagination for me to think you are one of those people that doesn't believe the Holocaust even occurred. :rolleyes:

Comparing Hilter to All-mad-in-the-head? You can't be serious. Ok they are both nuts, but that's about where the similarities. End. Now I will admit I wasn't around for WW2 and maybe you were, but I don't think history shows as the US thinking Hitler was "bluffing". Most of the US hadn't a clue as to who he was and probably still didn't even after he invaded Poland. When people heard he invaded Poland I think the general concensus was "who cares". Then he invaded France and well still who cares. [laugh] I think saying that most Americans saw Hitler as "bluffing" is more than just a tad short sighted.

It just a bit unsettling that religious right is so concerned about the Jews to the point that they would send more AMERICANS to die just to fend off a possible future attack on the Jewish homeland. Iran is not Iraq and it would not be pretty. We would win of course. But how many more Americans need to die in that hellhole sandpit?

So what are you guys saying. You all seem to agree that everything that wacko says is going to come to pass. So what do you propose? All I've seen is a bunch of crying about how bad Iran is....what do you think we should do about it?

It would seem that the consensus on this board would be to invade Iran before they can attack Israel. That would be just brilliant! Let's invade everyone at once! Talk about Hitler [laugh][laugh][laugh] I love how a lot of you seem to believe God is all powerful, yet the American military must protect Israel [laugh]


SO, what are you saying? We should just sit back and let Israel be wiped out by some whacko and do nothing? That is NOT what America is about. Israel is one of our closest allies and we can not sit by and let them be destroyed ( that is part of the deal with the whole ally thing )


Comparing todays foreign affairs with WW II era foreign affairs are like comparing apples to oranges. They are totally different. Germany had no way of wiping tens of thousands of people off the face of the earth within the course of a few hours.
With the technology available today, if you hesitate for even a day, you could lose an entire population of people.
Most of the US population didn't know who Hitler was when he invaded Poland because there was no CNN reporter embeded with him. there was no instant video of the battles. No ICBMS, Boomer subs or satellites ect... Times change, and so do the threats and the response time required to fend off those threats.

Unfortunately Freedom is not free and it has a huge cost in lives to be paid to keep it from disappearing. That might be OK for a guy like you, but most Americans thankfully believe otherwise. No one likes having to fight in that hell hole sand pit as you put it, but sometimes you simply have to knuckle down and do something because it is the RIGHT thing to do.


AMEN ! Very well said. THAT right there is way we are the best and mightiest nation on the face of the earth...

Guys I had to mute one of our members here temporarily and remove a post because he decided the prudent thing to do was call anyone that disagreed with him a Moron on this forum.

Look I want to stress this issue again, everyones opinion is welcome here, but if the only way you feel you can respond is to insult the other members by calling them names, you will be removed from this forum.

This is a Political forum, it is intended to generate thoughtful arguments and we can all have fun by posting pro's and con's on these differing subjects. If for some reason you can not take the heat (some of these discussions do get a bit heated) then please stay out of the politics section.

We do NOT have to agree, but we do need to keep a level of civility with each other ;)

Thank you

right even if its true.
In the words of the great philosopher Thumper...If ya cant say nothing nice....Dont say nothing at all. thump thump thump.