turboman1

Hey guys i have been researching alot. I am in a huge debate about what to do with my truck. I have a 1984 Ford F-250 or Ferd as you guys call it lol and i am going to make power this summer. I have researched the idi engine that is in mine and it seems hard to make power with it. If i did use it i would mill the tops of the pistons to drop the compression so i could run boost numbers in the 20s. Even then i am not sure if that is going to get around 300hp. My other option is to buy a 6.0L with all the computer stuff but it will be alot of work. Now i am thinking that i might go with a cummins 6 cylinder turbo. I do have a couple of questions.

1. Mounting brakets- does anyone make some aftermarket mounting brackets to do the motor swap?
2 What kind of power numbers are you guys putting out stock and modified?
3. Which generation or year would be the best to make power (years without the computer stuff)?
4. Are there a lot of after market parts to make more power?
5 What trans mission would be the best to use with the setup?

Thanks for the help. Sorry if you guys hate me for the Ford, but i have spent a lot of money fixing it up and i do not want to sell it i want to make some power with it now that it looks good. Also its my first truck, could be worse though i could have a gasser.

91.5CTDBanks

Welcome, no hate here. I have not done any swap work but have heard some info on it. With any engine, power takes money. But, the CTD does respond well and 300 hp is a good number to shoot for. Search the fourms and internet for sites for parts and swap info.

dumptruck200

Welcome to the forum.
I converted a 74 International to a 1990 Cummins 6BT I found in a junk yard from the 345 that it had in it. Best move I could make at the time! Nobody around here gives me any trouble about it being an International. The 1989 and 1990 years only need one wire to the fuel shut off solenoid to run, although its best to have 12 volts hooked up to the injector pump KSB if you get the wax motor style KSB.
There are some guys in Montana that do Ford - Cummins conversions; they make the mounts and things like that. They sell a kit for the conversion with good directions. I used some of their parts in my 74 International.
I also used the 5 speed Getrag 360 transmission for the swap. If you are willing to work on manual transmissions, they seem to be about the best. They come with some history but the parts for them are available and the expertise to repair them is on this forum. Check the sticky and do a search on the posting threads for Getrag 360 and you'll soon be pointed in the right direction! You may even get hooked like a lot of us.
I haven't tried to make any more power out of my stock install; its plenty the way it is for my use.From what I've seen on DTR, these guys are making their Cummins sing!

Jim

loch

www.fordcummins.com

turboman1

Thanks for the help what year engine is the best to get to make some power. And for the transmission i would like to get a manual so so they have kits for those too.

turboman1

An engine that i can work on without all of the computer stuff. Thanks

gman07

A 2nd gen 12v will make the most easy power. The 96-98 5 spd trucks came with 215hp P-Pumps that can make a bunch of power with not much money. They're also mechanically controlled pumps up until 98.5 when they switched to the 24 valve design.

The engines progressed something like this:

89-91.5 160 hp VE pump, no intercooler
91.5-93 160 hp VE pump, all after this are intercooled
94-95 Automatics 160 hp P-Pump
94-95 Manuals 175 hp P-Pump
96-98.5 Automatics 180 hp P-Pump
96-98.5 Manuals 215 hp P-Pump
98.5-current are electronically controlled pumps

turboman1

Will the 96-98.5 cummins be easy to work on and does that fordcummins.com sell the mounting brakets for the engine and the manual transmission.

For performance i am guessing you do not have to drop the compression ratio because then they get hard to start. But it seems there are a couple of different turbos that you can get along with bigger injectors. Exhaust, 3200 rpm governor spring, and do you have to get a different injection pump or can you just turn the fuel up. What about the engine internals. Will they all hold up with around 300-350 hp with using head studs or do you need them. Thanks for all the help though

dieselJon

I thought first gens put more TQ per HP than other gens?? Or am I wrong again!

Jon

Micaiahfied

now that you are planning to use a real motor you don't have to worry about 90% of the stuff you have to worry about with the powerstroke (couldn't resist). seriously... I dynoed at 373hp/837tq and i have about maybe $600 in power mods TOTAL. no need to drop compression, yes there are plenty of turbos and injectors out there to try and to turn the fuel up you do not have to replalce the pump. if your goal is only 300-350 then buy a first gen motor, it will be a lot cheaper. as for the tranny, if you can find one cheap enough the nv4500 out of a 2nd gen truck would work great, but if the getrag is treated nice it will serve you well. The stock head gasket on a cummins is good for about 40psi, the only reason i see to stud/oring the head is if you are going to run twins, there aren't to many singe turbos that are capable of running 40+ pounds of EFFICIENT air. hope i didn't ramble too much

turboman1

Thanks guys i appraciate all the help i can get. My question now is there a place to get the trans mounts for the nv4500 or another manual trans. What kind of performance parts do they make for them too becuase i will probably using it at the drag strip some and at the pulls hopefully.Micaiafied what parts did you put on yours to get that much power that is sweet for only $600. If i wanted to take it up to 400 later would a fist generation work or would it be better with 96-98.5 (Third Gen. Right?)

90firstgen

Welcome to DTR turboman1! There's several places that you can get billet shafts etc... for the NV4500. Here's the deal though when you go to pick trannys. The getrag (used in all 1st gen 5 speeds) and its stock clutch will hold over 300hp stock. The weak point is the clutch. Upgrades can be had at southbendclutch.com There's several guys on here running massive amounts of torque on the g'rag without any problems. They just don't like to be lugged under load. The NV won't hold as much power as the getrag but there's a lot more parts available for them so they can be built up stronger. Other members can chime in and point you to conversions etc... for the NV4500 and the first gen cummins.
Now when choosing engines... the non-intercooled style engines come with much larger injectors than the intercooled engines. With pump mods you can achieve over 300hp with the stockers. The intercooled engines can only reach about 260ish i believe. You also should upgrade the turbo with a compressor upgrade or just a whole new bigger unit, but that's a whole other subject. But, if you don't mind buying a set of performance injectors, then get the intercooled setup because you can achieve more power in the long run obviously and be able to tow a lot better/cooler. A first gen can easily achieve 400hp with the right injector/turbo combo if you want to upgrade more, later. Also, I believe it will still be cheaper than using a second generation engine.

1st gen: 89-93 (12v)
2nd gen: 94-98.5 (12v) and 98.5-02 (24v electronic controlled)
3rd gen: 02.5?-present (24v electronic controlled)

gman07

If you're going for under 450hp, the 1st gen engine will do just fine. It should also produce more torque than a 2nd gen engine due to the dynamic timing of the VE. However, 1st gen engines also have diaphragm lift pumps that don't do well after you put new injectors in. You'd have to upgrade to a piston-style pump or an electric, like wannadiesel and some other guys have.

So, if you're going for under 450hp and find a 89-93 12v engine, it will do fine. If you're going for 500+ hp eventually, go with the 94-98 12v engine, preferably a 96.5-98 with a 215hp pump.

turboman1

I am pretty sure now that i am going to go with a 1st generation cummins. They seem to be cheaper and for what i want, eventually around 400 hp that seems like the way to go. So with getting the most power out of the engine to start with what should i buy (Limit around 1000 dollars)?
Questions
1. I was reading about a guy mounting a power stroke intercooler on his 1st generation. (I will probably do that). So would that be included in the 400 hp more than likely?
2. I think i am wanting to get it around 350 hp to start with so what kind of boost numbers would i be seeing. (Not really wanting to get the heads o ringed and put in head studs just yet) You have to realize that is about 175 hp more than what my truck makes now (That is said). So if it is below 40lbs of boost that should be ok right?
3. Where should i begin to look for the getrag trans and the 89-93 12V cummins engine. Junkyard or get a remanufactured one?
4.gman07 what kind of power numbers are you running because that seems around where i thought the boost level should be to get 300-350 hp?

i really appreciate all the help guys. I am all excited about doing this!