undecided_D_F_C

I am the current owner of a totaled 2000 F-250 PSD due to a drunk driver over the 4th of july weekend. When I get my check from the insurance company I am going to have to get a new truck. I am seriously looking at getting a new HO Cummins. I work in the construction field and a lot of the guys swear by the PSD or the Cummins. The only problem I hear about dodge is the drive train and everything else but the engine. However all the people that talk about them are driving fords or chevy. I see a lot of good posts on here about the quality. I would like to hear from people who have driven PSD, Duramax, and Cummins as to which they think is the best. I will be in the market in the next few weeks so any info would be greatly appreciated.

Nevada

I have never owned a D-max but have been a lifetime Ford fan. My first Dodge/Cummins was a '91 12-valve and am currently on my seventh Dodge/Cummins a 2003 HO/6-speed. I have also had and been satisfied with several Fords and 7.3L (DT444E) Powerstrokes. With that disclaimer my observations are as follows. Begining with about the 2000 model year Dodge has achieved equality with the fit and finish you are accustomed to with a Ford. Dodge has not yet offered the variety of creature comforts and accessories from the factory that Ford offers (if you care about those things). Dodge has a poor history with their autos on stock trucks that run on a daily basis at or near GVWR, Ford has a better history but not by a long way. I have never had a diesel/stick Ford combo so no comment. I have never had a &quot;bad&quot; diesel/stick Dodge combo. All of my previous trucks with diesels have been work trucks, the one I have now is my first daily driver and I love it. I would have seriously considered a Ford but for two concerns. First the &quot;real&quot; crew cab on the Ford makes it too long for my garage. Second, I did not want to be a guinea pig on the new 6.0L Powerstroke. Every time I cruise the Ford forums, I am that much happier with my decision. The 6.0L may turn out to be a great engine, but it is having some real birthing pains.<br><br>Good luck with your decision, you CANNOT go wrong with a Cummins.

VPI

I owned an 01 &amp; 02 PSD. Neither one made it past 21000 for me. The first one was in the shop many times with a problem that they could not fix which prompted the second truck. It worked well for a year then aluminum and brass chunks showed up in the oil. I could not get any one to help me with this problem out side of private mechanics. They wanted to tear the engine down at my expense. I know own a dodge I went with a six speed because I did not feel the auto to be trustworthey yet. It may be it is just not proven. I have only had the truck just over a week and only 1000 miles so far. Here is what I can tell you. I think it drives better on the road. It pulls twice as good and it is quiter. A sub I use has and 01 3500 that he pulls a 4x4 back hoe with, 60,000 miles on it most with a load behind it and no problems. I also like the D-MAX, but the dodge I feel is more suited for the work site. The GM product has more bells and whistles if you like that. Good luck it is a difficult decision.<br>

undecided_D_F_C

Thank you for the info you guys have posted so far. I test drove a crew cab cummins today. I liked it. It was quiet as hell compared to the other cummins I been around. I did speak with some of the foreman we work with and they drive some older cummins and they love them. The only thing I didn't like about the dodge was it looked like some of there accessory compartments for cup holders and stuff didn't look to sturdy. I plan on testing a ford tom. Does anyone have any mileage reports on there new trucks. I never got what people said they were getting on there PSD. I have heard rumors of the cummins getting around 22-24 mpg. Is this true or just hogwash?<br><br>Eron

spots

I have also driven Fords in the past. (since '87)Bought this truck last Jan and so far have 18k on it and all been trouble free. I think the HO Cummins is an excellent engine, I think that any auto in a work truck is going to be grief. Not as much room in the rear quad cab of this truck for my tools, but I can live with that. Pulls the trailer very well, quiet, and best of all not in the shop like the 6.0 Powerjoke. If you want another Ford truck wait a while so all the 2003 owners can do the testing for Ford.... : Remember lots of brand loyalty out there. Guys can have a piece of junk and still stand behind the manufacturer. I buy what I think is going to serve me well. The Powerstrokes (7.3) I had in the past were fine, truck was fine also. Just have reservations about Ford and the 6.0 PSD. Best of luck with your purchase.

mymaur

I have owned 3 chevy diesels, no Duramax though. I had nothing but problems with all 3. Everything from fuel injection pump problems, glow plug issues, no fuel water seperator, bad water pumps, tranny problems. And the biggest issue. Crappy dealer service.<br><br>I switched to dodge in 95 and am on my 3rd diesel. Wouldn't consider anything else.<br><br>Now, everyone has there loyalties and some swear by dodge, some chevy and others Ford. All have there problems including dodge. I have just had the least problem with dodge. First one was an automatic and it had to be rebuilt at 65000miles. 2nd one was a 4x4 with an auto and it went 175,000 miles on the same tranny and I never had it rebuilt. The 2003 has the HO and a 6 sp and I love it. So I guess it all depends who you talk to. I couldn't keep a chevy running. But a friend of Mine has been driving them for 30 years and never had a bad one. Dodge also gets great mileage.<br><br>2cent

gadgets

With 975 miles on the truck, I'm getting about 17-18 empty &amp; 14 pulling 5500lbs...don't even feel the trailer back there ;D<br><br>You'll note I have the 6-speed &amp; the 4.10 rear.<br><br>I was going to buy a F350, but when they started 'beta-testing' the new 6L diesel, I went to Dodge; Love the ride; Love the power; love how smooth it is.<br><br>Rene

Nevada

[quote author=undecided_D_F_C link=board=17;threadid=16998;start=0#159393 date=1058074516]
I have heard rumors of the cummins getting around 22-24 mpg. Is this true or just hogwash?
[/quote]

Probably true unloaded, constant tailwind and never exceed 45 MPH.

In reality, I get 18 unloaded 15 towing a trailer.

Duelin

What they said . <br> I had a 2001 auto = mistake . <br> Now a 2003 HO 6 speed love it, and 18 mpg usually for milage . It pulls better than the 2001 that had a ez . I would NOT recomend a automatic trans. given Dodges history of patch repairs on problem areas . I liked my old ford diesel but the milage was just not acceptable.

spots

[quote author=Nevada link=board=17;threadid=16998;start=0#159463 date=1058118443]<br>[quote author=undecided_D_F_C link=board=17;threadid=16998;start=0#159393 date=1058074516]<br>I have heard rumors of the cummins getting around 22-24 mpg. Is this true or just hogwash?<br>[/quote]<br><br>Probably true unloaded, constant tailwind and never exceed 45 MPH.<br><br>In reality, I get 18 unloaded 15 towing a trailer.<br>[/quote]<br><br>I can get 24 on the highway no problem. City mixed I get around 17 to 21. I sorta drive like an old fart tho.. (no offense 5ver Bob ) Depends how much idling I do. Towing my trailer I get about 14. Always 1000lbs of tools in the truck. No cap, running boards, mud flaps, big tires or any other wind catching devices on the truck. FWIW

Mexstan

I love my truck. Drive it hard. In the city according to the overhead computer I am getting about 17 mpg and on the highway where I usually cruise at around 2500 rpm I am getting around 19 mpg.

XTOAK

I'm not about to trash talk the Duramax but only to relate my personal experience with it so, please, no flaming my opinion. Thanks.

I owned an '02 Duramax for exactly four months and the only problem I had with it was the engine. They have been having problems with the injector cup seals on the engine and when they go bad, it starts drinking antifreeze like it's free! Of course, it's that cute orange stuff (Dexcool) but it's not cheap. I took it in and they diagnosed it as injector cup seal failure. Ten days later I got my truck back and everything went fine for about six weeks...then it began drinking Dexcool again. I got rid of it at that point.

Pros: Easy to do an oil change as filter and drain plug are beside each other. Allison tranny was a very good, easy to service, reliable automatic tranny. Allison is synonomous with BULLETPROOF. The 48RE is still to be proven but has the potential to be the same. Decent mileage for a crew cab but nothing like my Cummins.. Quiet, like a Cummins. Chevy seems to have a softer ride than Dodge but that's my opinion and I'd rather have the durability of the Cummins.

Cons: Fuel filter change is a nightmare as you have to pull the right front wheel well liner to get it out. Injector cup seal leaks - have talked with several guys who have had the same problem and usually the first repair fixed it...for now. Not a million mile engine like the Cummins. Aluminum heads.

To each their own...for me it was a Cummins.

SuperGewl

I just finished a vacation accross the country pulling a Travel Trailer. I averaged 11.6 MPG at posted speed limits. The woirse I got was about 10.7 and the best about 12.6 MPG. The truck pulled strong and it loved pulling those long hills as long as got a good run and was able to kick it out of OD ahave it catch 4th gear at the correct time. Even with that once you dropped to about 57 MPH it would catch and pull like a bat out of hell.<br>Around town I get about 12 - 14 MPG on the highway I get about 18 MPG average. The best I've gotten is 23 MPG at normal speeds.<br>

doug

[quote author=undecided_D_F_C link=board=17;threadid=16998;start=0#159197 date=1058030603]<br>The only problem I hear about dodge is the drive train and everything else but the engine. [/quote]<br><br>I'm still doing my research on the 2003 RAMs and so far the only drive train issue I know of has to do with the 2500 and 3500 axles early on in the model year. those problems seem to be ironed out now. as for &quot;everything else but the engine&quot; that kind of sounds like std party line sales talk. the 2003 RAM is a major new design, and if you ask me the birth pains are calming down nicely now. I will say that &quot;pre-2003&quot; Dodge automatics were known to be weak, and that the current auto is significantly beefed up. I think Dodge had to wake up from their 98.5-2002 slumber and it looks like they did. so the only &quot;drive train&quot; doubt you could cast on Dodge right now is that the new 48RE transmission has only a year behind it.<br><br>Here's one example of drive train robustness in the 2003 Dodge: My 2002 HD transfer case is rated at 5,555 ft lbs of input torque, which is 200% of the maximum possible torque at delivered by the Engine at wide open throttle with the transmission in 1st gear (tank-pulling mode). In 2003, the new transfer case is rated at 7890 ft lbs of torque which, even with the newer more powerful engine, is 250% of the maximum possible torque delivered by the Engine when the tranny is in 1st gear. <br><br>If you look at the first introductions of major changes in Ford (esp the new 6.0L engine this year) and Chevy (duramax, when it introduced), you will be amazed -- they make the 2003 new dodge introduction look like came straight from gold plated factory perfection. I mean, axles and shafts are minor issues compared to a bad engine. Like most other Cummins owners I am impressed with the durability of the engine (what I want to outlast me and what is the most expensive to repair). In that regard, the 20-year old proven Cummins block makes the others look like breakable toys.<br><br>I own a 2002 dodge 4x4 2500 and love the truck. The only issue I'm aware of with these is regarding the the front suspension and steering for the 4x4 models. The trucks have a tendancy to wander a bit and feel loose in the steering. there are some very effective after market parts to correct this. <br><br>I'm looking at the 2003s to increase my payload capacity with a 1 ton single rear wheel configuration, something that was not available in the 2002s. The new trucks have a re-designed front end so the steering problems of the 2002 are gone. I deliberately avoided the 2003 intro due to certain (in my mind) birth pains. I'm satisfied with my decision but realize now that the birth pains were not nearly as scary as I thought they would be. I look back on what all changed in 2003 and hats go off to Dodge for what they pulled off. Even the Engine contains something like 70% new parts, a brand new HPCR injection system, and the rest of the truck is all new as well, including the new technology frame, different parts in the front suspension, new axles, interior, and pretty much everything else. This was a huge, major intro, and they pulled it off better than either of the lesser intros from Ford or Chevy.<br><br>My only gripe is that they chose to change axles. wish they would have stayed with Dana because that was working pretty well and they fixed something that wasn't broke.<br><br>As for non-Cummins engines, right now the Duramax wins agains the PSD for engine quality, as its had a few years to calm down and the PSD is still in the really scary stage. Still, I'm hearing reports of fuel in the duramax crankcase and also disapearing coolant. you hear nothing, nada, zero problems with major internal engine problems on the Cummins, which is of course an elegant in-line 6 with 40% fewer parts than a V-8, and a medium-duty engine block used in 400 HP continuous duty commercial applications.<br><br>As for the truck around the cummins, seriously I think that there are no major issues and that the choice boils down to personal preference -- if you like the interior layout and such you will tolerate the minor quality glitches that are common to all three mfgrs.

undecided_D_F_C

I want to thank you all for your input on this issue. I have test driven all the different trucks and have concluded on the Cummins. I liked the power of the new ford but I dont want any of the birthing pains they are currenly having. Plus they cost like 6 or 7 grand more. I have also talked with many people since posting this about the quality of the cummins. These guys pull backhoes and other heavy loads everyday and they have no complaints. The chevy is nice but I don't like the fact that the heads are aluminum or the cost of the blasted thing. I enjoyed the ride and feel of the dodge. The only thing that I didn't like as much as the others was the interior. However I will get over this. I am trying to find the best price on a new cummins right now. It inevitable comes down to price every time. Thank you all again for the input and hopefully I will be posting some good comments on my new cummins in the next few weeks.<br><br>Eron