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View Full Version : My 05 is not my 98 4Xdrifting


runamuk
09-16-2005, 10:20 PM
Ever since I got my 05 I've noticed that it is poorly balanced as far as front to rear weight ratio. I am able to spin the rear wheels in rain with my 05 and never was able to with my 98 both running stock tires and the 98 had 347rwhp(gasser) with 3.55 gears w/ Trac lok. I'm thinking that this is going to be a major problem when it comes time to go for a run to Tahoe in the snow.

My 05 has 4.10 gears w/anti spin and with the massive torque of a Cummins even letting off the go pedal will be just like slamming on the brakes and that is not a good thing in the snow and ice!!!

I'm no stranger to driving rally style when the need arises by power slide braking in 4x but I'm wondering if there is a simple fix rather than spin my way all the way to Tahoe.

Extra weight in the rear is really a moot point as I'm looking to balance the vehicles handeling without adding the weight.maybe lower the rear?1-2" You tell me.

Rick

cumminsdriver635
09-17-2005, 12:30 AM
I dont know why your 98 wouldnt spin unless it was because of the lack of torque from the gasser, but with my slipping converter, and my old tires that were getting worn some, i could break the tires loose in overdrive on a wet road, and i have limited slip. I can still do it in 3rd with my new, bigger tires.

Eric

BigBlue
09-17-2005, 08:06 PM
It's all in the torque. My truck when it was stock regardless of whether or not I had the 265's on there or the 315's, even with 3.54 gears and limited slip I could spin the tires at will on wet roads from a stop. The 315's just required a little more throttle.

runamuk
09-20-2005, 12:09 AM
Ok maybe I miss stated my objective here I need to get the butt end of my truck to hook up all the time. Wet, dry, snow, ice who has any ideas?


Rick

95ram
09-20-2005, 02:52 AM
About the only thing I can think of is adding some weight to the rear. Or you could put some massively wide tires on the back.

SHARPMACHINE
09-20-2005, 06:37 AM
Front end leveling kits are real popular, but I have not heard much about a rear lowering kit. Would a leveling kit make a differance?? I don't know.


With my 94 in the winter I have had to learn alot about throttle control because of the big C's torque. Going sideways at 75 mph is a bit scarry to say the least - especialy when their is a car next to you. I wish I had better news for you, but this is a side affect of having goobs of torque. lol

Ten_Bucks
09-29-2005, 12:21 AM
Ok maybe I miss stated my objective here I need to get the butt end of my truck to hook up all the time. Wet, dry, snow, ice who has any ideas?


Rick

The best thing to do is add a whole bunch of weight to the rear of your truck by putting something heavy in the bed, like firewood, sandbags, 50lb. cat litter bags, etc. That will definetly get the job done.

Aloha
12-15-2005, 11:38 PM
More traction? Hmm... Vectors... Constants... Force... Velocity... Polar Moment of Inertia... oh my! Skipping all that, adding weight over the rear tires will be your best bet. As far back as possible too!

The easiest thing that you can do to increase rear wheel traction (that others have already suggested) is to increase the weight over the rear tires. No doubt about it. Unless you are willing to chain up, or run purpose built snow tires that can better take advantage of available traction versus an all-weather tire, more weight over the tires will give you more traction for acceleration. But think about this... chains on dry pavement accelerate worse than a standard tire... and a slick tire will accelerate better than a treaded tire. On wet pavement, a slick tire will still have the advantage. On ice or hard packed snow, chains or studs will have the clear advantage. So what's most important to you?

I run around the wintertime with a load of snow in the back. One bucket load of "berm" snow and I'm good to go. I like using snow because I can drop the tailgate and easily eject the load. (sounds dirty) The downside is more weight requires more traction to stop within the same braking distance. On snow or ice a heavier vehicle is not always a good thing. On solid ice the only thing that will help is something harder than the ice surface (road surface) that can break through the smooth outer layer... like a good set of chains or studded tires. But for wet weather this isn't going to work. In the wet you can try what years of drag racers have learned... and this is for rear wheel 2wd operation only, the more weight over the rear tires the better. And specifically, more weight over the right rear. At least for straight line acceleration. The downside is the more vertical load (weight) you place on a tire the worse it will make the vehicle handle in the corners. That should be pretty obvious already. So more weight in the bed will cause an increase in the traction force of the tire but the cornering G's will be reduced.

Assuming you don't want to increase the static weight of the truck you can do two things...

1. Alter the ride height of the truck front to rear. Unless you really alter the ride height front and rear, well beyond a "level" front to rear stance, you probably won't see much of a shift in the static weight of the rear tires. Doing that will also reduce the traction of the front tires, something that can cause ill handling effects. You might already know the feeling... the lack of steering "feel" when you REALLY load the back of your truck down... enough to get it sitting beyond level, rear lower than the front. That feeling is caused by a whole slew of reasons, but it's not very desireable in a street driven truck.

If increasing overall weight is not an option and you don't want to daily drive a prerunner, your best solution is to relocate heavy items. Move the batteries to the back of the truck. Relocate the jack and tool kit to the back of the truck. Anything that you can relocate from the front to the rear is going to benefit straight line rear tire traction and improve acceleration.

Aloha

mikmaze
12-16-2005, 07:20 AM
lie he said above, batteries to the rear, also if you don't get ina nd out o fhte truck bed a lot if you have a tool box full of stuff move that to the rear against the tailgate, not that big a job but puts the weight where you awant it, not towards the cab. Also if you move the batteries it makes lots of room for a nice BHAF setup, shoot you could have one of the only Dual BHAF setups with the room created. [whistle]

95dodgeram21
12-16-2005, 07:45 AM
I put Traction bars on my truck (95 CTD with twins) and it did great for traction. Just a thought.

RickCJ
12-16-2005, 08:19 AM
Ever since I got my 05 I've noticed that it is poorly balanced as far as front to rear weight ratio. I am able to spin the rear wheels in rain with my 05 and never was able to with my 98 both running stock tires and the 98 had 347rwhp(gasser) with 3.55 gears w/ Trac lok. I'm thinking that this is going to be a major problem when it comes time to go for a run to Tahoe in the snow.

My 05 has 4.10 gears w/anti spin and with the massive torque of a Cummins even letting off the go pedal will be just like slamming on the brakes and that is not a good thing in the snow and ice!!!

I'm no stranger to driving rally style when the need arises by power slide braking in 4x but I'm wondering if there is a simple fix rather than spin my way all the way to Tahoe.

Extra weight in the rear is really a moot point as I'm looking to balance the vehicles handeling without adding the weight.maybe lower the rear?1-2" You tell me.

Rick

Try putting it in 4WD!!!

yarddog
12-21-2005, 04:42 PM
Ever since I got my 05 I've noticed that it is poorly balanced as far as front to rear weight ratio. I am able to spin the rear wheels in rain with my 05 and never was able to with my 98 both running stock tires and the 98 had 347rwhp(gasser) with 3.55 gears w/ Trac lok. I'm thinking that this is going to be a major problem when it comes time to go for a run to Tahoe in the snow.

My 05 has 4.10 gears w/anti spin and with the massive torque of a Cummins even letting off the go pedal will be just like slamming on the brakes and that is not a good thing in the snow and ice!!!

I'm no stranger to driving rally style when the need arises by power slide braking in 4x but I'm wondering if there is a simple fix rather than spin my way all the way to Tahoe.

Extra weight in the rear is really a moot point as I'm looking to balance the vehicles handeling without adding the weight.maybe lower the rear?1-2" You tell me.

Rick

Like said before it's not the poor balance of the truck compared to your old gasser pick up (all pick ups are poorly balanced by design) it the difference in torque between the two engines. Leveling the truck isn't going to do squat, the only real answer is to de tune the motor or get more weight over the wheels. Or using 4WD is a good idea too [laugh]

runamuk
12-21-2005, 08:20 PM
RickCJ, I even have this problem when towing my 7x16 Carson Cargo trailer in the rain. I'm betting on way too much torque and way too little tire!

Yarddog bite your tongue and slap yourself for me!!! What the heck does DE TUNE MEAN??? That type of Blasphemy is not allowed!!! [nonono] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

I think I'll try a set of 33" BFG All Terrains and see if that helps or should they be 35"?

Rick

DieselDaze
12-28-2005, 06:47 AM
You could always go with this solution (Minus the Ford):

http://tiger.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/truck_tracks.jpg

Rich

thejoker502
12-28-2005, 05:29 PM
My roomate had a 2002 cummins with the stock michlen tires and it is bad in the rain and snow. I have the 2004.5 in my sig with the stock BFG Rugged Trails and have much better traction. I can still spin the tires and kick the rear end out but only if I try. At normal acceleration and all that I don't have that much of a problem. If found that this truck has good snow manners.

runamuk
12-29-2005, 03:27 AM
Diesel daze do they have those in the Cummins size? LOL!

thejoker502,
So, you are saying I drive with my foot in it too much??? LOL!, I get to chauffer a retired 37 yr vetran of the CHP around with me everyday! He's my employee and a good one at that! I think not!

I seriously think it is just poor balancing as compared to my 98 gasser! The rear of these trucks is probably lighter that my 98 and unable to handle the torque of the Cummins especially with 4.10's. Larger tires are a must if you run empty in the snow and ice and do not want to slide everywhere! Even in 4x4!

Rick