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View Full Version : McCain's slogan needs a second look


P.J
09-26-2008, 12:18 PM
Some excerpts from a letter to the editor in my local paper today:
Abel De La Graza Conowingo, MD (Cecil Whig 9/26/2008)


John McCain's website reads "County First" referring to his Military service in Vietnam as being relevant to his presidential candidacy.

But time and the fog of war often blur reality. The reality is that in Vietnam, he did not always put his country first. In his book "Faith of my Fathers" McCain laments on his captivity: "I had learned what we all learned over there. Every man has his breaking point, I had reached mine."

And, in an article by McCain appearing in Pacific Stars and Stripes dated May 2, 1973 he writes, "Okay, I will give you the Military information if you will take me to the hospital." His own words revealed that he had violated the U.S Military Code of Conduct.

In South Vietnam, Capt. Rocky Versace, captured in 1963 resisted his captures to the end by frustrating them and refusing to denounce America. After two years of almost daily torture while chained in a bamboo cage he was executed. There was many others like Capt. Versace who put their county first.

McCain showed bravery and courage on those 23 bombing missions, but he was not a hero. When faced with adversity, McCain put McCain first., not his country.

Today, Mr. McCain is counting on Americans to be oblivious to the facts. His "slogan" is an affront to the POWs who died in Vietnam.

P.J
09-26-2008, 12:29 PM
Swift boat anyone?

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-26-2008, 12:33 PM
I expect this from someone that has NO idea what it is like to actually SERVE your country by placing your life on the line and doing a tour in the military.

Biggest crock of crud I ever read in my life............

P.J
09-26-2008, 12:40 PM
Biggest crock of crud I ever read in my life............

Doubt that.

Do you dispute the quotes then, because otherwise the writers opinions don't really matter?

P.J
09-26-2008, 12:43 PM
I know we're all gung ho here, but if you are insinuating that I am less of a man because I didn't peruse a military career, that is an interesting stance to take.

matego
09-26-2008, 12:52 PM
And, in an article by McCain appearing in Pacific Stars and Stripes dated May 2, 1973 he writes, "Okay, I will give you the Military information if you will take me to the hospital." His own words revealed that he had violated the U.S Military Code of Conduct.

I tried to pull up the archive but I really dont want to spend the money to prove a point.
http://www.stripes.com/webpages.asp?id=23&nl=3

I am willing to bet that the quote you took or have found is part of some story and is taken way out of context right here. Have you read the entire article? He was probably saying he would tell them but gave them false info. I find it to be a real low hit to try and discredit the mans military service. What he has done for our country and has endured is almost beyond comprehension to someone that has not been there too.

John Halter
09-26-2008, 12:52 PM
Five years of torture with broken bones , permanently scarred for life and with continues pain , it just makes me sick to think there are American's that can somehow degrade a man that has been through that no mater what there politics . Attacking and American hero has got this election in the gutter farther then I could ever believe in this country . If that is the best a campaign can produce it is time to pack it up , this is just sad very sad . My biggest regret is we can't somehow put these idiot through one hour of the treatment Mr. John McCain endured for five . [tapdshut]

bnold
09-26-2008, 12:54 PM
"Okay, I will give you the Military information if you will take me to the hospital."

Does he say he gave correct information? Or maybe just anything to please them enough to get him help?

I have never been in the military and can not even begin to imagine what he must have gone through... So there is no way in blank that I will try and belittle his service for our country...

How cowardly... [yuk][yuk]

P.J
09-26-2008, 12:56 PM
Have you read the entire article? He was probably saying he would tell them but gave them false info. I find it to be a real low hit to try and discredit the mans military service. What he has done for our country and has endured is almost beyond comprehension to someone that has not been there too.

I have not, and there well could be.

It's just reminiscent of Kerry and all the flack he caught. Did some of you here doubt and/or discredit HIS military experience? Is that beyond comprehension, because it certainly happened 4 years ago.

P.J
09-26-2008, 12:59 PM
.............. it just makes me sick to think there are American's that can somehow degrade a man that has been through that no mater what there politics . [tapdshut]

Again, how did you feel when Kerry's service was in question? Where you outspoken, and sickened by it?

John Halter
09-26-2008, 01:01 PM
Less of man no, informed enough to comment , obviously your not . Fortunately because of men like John McCain you have not had to experience a situation like this and also you can pollute the Internet with garbage of this caliber . [verymad]

P.J
09-26-2008, 01:09 PM
Just to be straight then, Vietnam was threatening our our right to free speech? McCain's service squashed that?

Fact is, in the current political climate, NO ONE can even so much as think about questioning McCain on his military past.
I'm not the author of the piece, just thought posting it here would help to even out the obvious slant to the right.

P.J
09-26-2008, 01:10 PM
Given the opportunity I would serve, I assure you I'm in far better physical and mental shape than some soldiers I've known.

John Halter
09-26-2008, 01:12 PM
John Kerry's Military career was attack by his own boat crew and yes I feel they had the right , they were there and they served with him and they spoke there mind much like many of the men who were prisoner of war with John McCain have spoke up and all in his favor . No one can understand what a person goes through unless they are there and those are the people I listen to . not just someone who's goal is to destroy a mans reputation by a few words out of context . [verymad]

John Halter
09-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Given the opportunity ? You have the opportunity unless you have a criminal record or some kind of mental deficiency , I have no way of knowing why you can not serve and I hope someday you can get your life straightened out to partake of this American opportunity . [coffee]

P.J
09-26-2008, 01:23 PM
Given the opportunity ? You have the opportunity unless you have a criminal record or some kind of mental deficiency , I have no way of knowing why you can not serve and I hope someday you can get your life straightened out to partake of this American opportunity . [coffee]

Life straightened out?[laugh] Son, I'm as straight as the come! Got everything a man could want, family, home, money, health......

P.J
09-26-2008, 01:25 PM
Attacking and American hero has got this election in the gutter farther then I could ever believe in this country . . [tapdshut]

John Kerry's Military career was attack by his own boat crew and yes I feel they had the right....... [verymad]

Alrighty then.

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-26-2008, 01:31 PM
Phil,

I was not attacking you but rather the Liberal bonehead that wrote this piece of trash. The military KNOWS everyone can be broken, this is the reason they limit knowledge to those that need that info to perform their immediate duties.

To say that McCain or ANY other soldier is a coward when subjected to the treatment that he and other POW's have endured is the lowest blow and most rediculous thing I have ever seen.

P.J
09-26-2008, 01:34 PM
Agreed. It's gotten spun off into me not supporting past and present troops which is not the case.

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Agreed. It's gotten spun off into me not supporting past and present troops which is not the case.

I don't see you as that callous and cowardly, it is the Democratic spin machine that you are endorsing that makes people think that. Lets face basic facts, there is absolutely no credible reason to attack a POW for the torture he endured, he didn't ask for it and can't help what becomes because of it.

But this shows just how worried the Dems are about their socialistic views not being accepted by American voters. They allow them selves to stoop to this level when they should have enough sense to know it is unacceptable behavior.

This is different from the Swift Boat thing because those guys actually served with Kerry and saw him for what he really is. I guarantee that writer can't even begin to imagine what McCain and other POW's have actually had to endure in the name of freedom.

That is Freedom for Democrats as well as Republicans and he has no right to make such callous statements about things he knows nothing about. With the right to Freedom of Speech also comes the responsibility to use it with some common sense.

Clayten
09-26-2008, 02:15 PM
PJ I commend you on your courage to post that. It takes guts to go against the flow. That is what makes a man a man. That is what keeps the truth the truth. For the fellas that think I am saying that the article is true I am not, because I do not know the story. PJ has the back bone to bring it up, and let it be discussed. This lets all the chips fall into the proper piles.

grantx5
09-26-2008, 02:24 PM
Interesting post PJ but not sure what the main point is. What is it exactly that you are trying to say? If I read things correctly, you are saying that McCain is not a hero, that he gave up information to the enemy he should not have, and that his military career was not what is being portrayed so we really should question it. Is that correct? Just trying to understand your point in the post.

P.J
09-26-2008, 02:38 PM
See, it's not whatI'm "trying to say". Everything on the internet isn't innuendo and fancy double talk.

I guess if I was going to make a cover statement in regards to what the person read, I would say there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of war (and peace time) heroes. It's sometimes seen as an "end all" when looking at the two candidates, like, "Well, McCain served, in some terrible conditions at that, so....I MUST vote for him" ?

I just disagree on being able to use it as a political crutch, which, interestingly, I think I understand McCain to agree with me on.

It is an interesting post, facts and (especially) quotes can be taken to mean all different things, interpreted different ways.

grantx5
09-26-2008, 04:37 PM
I hear you. I wouldn't vote for a guy just because he served in the military even if he was a POW. However, I do see McCain as an extraordinary guy with regards to what he endured. He isn't the only one either. Like you said, there are heros all around us, he just happens to be one of them and is running for President.

On the other hand, I can't say the same for Obama. Ok he's a nice guy, nice smile, and talks real good. What I don't find anywhere are character references of any kind, except for his wife maybe. His credentials just don't add up to the right stuff, IMHO.

So, to a certain degree, McCain's service is a deciding factor since I do believe it tells us about his character. If his service was less than it has been portrayed, the liberal press would be waving it in front of us 24/7, but they are not.

John Halter
09-26-2008, 05:05 PM
I agree , being a POW does not qualify you to be president , but how you handle it and what you do with your life afterwards does . I cannot see how anyone could say this man does not put his country first and I feel it was this attitude that got him through the years of torture . I have done a search back in Obama's life and I can find nothing that would qualify him from his past accomplishments to be president . I would be highly interested in any ones opinion of what this man has done in his life that prepares him for a job of this importance . Setting up Socialism in this country seems to be his goal and I want no part of it . His work in ACORN makes him unqualified in my opinion and his goal to spend 20 more billion on it scares me .

Clayten
09-26-2008, 05:07 PM
I agree , being a POW does not qualify you to be president , but how you handle it and what you do with your life afterwards does . I cannot see how anyone could say this man does not put his country first and I feel it was this attitude that got him through the years of torture . I have done a search back in Obama's life and I can find nothing that would qualify him from his past accomplishments to be president . I would be highly interested in any ones opinion of what this man has done in his life that prepares him for a job of this importance . Setting up Socialism in this country seems to be his goal and I want no part of it . His work in ACORN makes him unqualified in my opinion and his goal to spend 20 more billion on it scares me .

So what does GWB have or had to put him where he is?

chipmonk
09-26-2008, 05:08 PM
His work in ACORN makes him unqualified in my opinion and his goal to spend 20 more billion on it scares me .

do you realize what you've done?!?!
you've now placed yourself in the minority on this forum, by bringing up an actual, factual, political point, that is based on fact, and not on rhetoric or partisanship!

John Halter
09-26-2008, 05:28 PM
Factual and political fact is not what I have been seeing from all the liberal media lately so I can see how many are confused in this election . I believe in hard times people run towards either evil or religion and sadly that fact has been proven many times in history , I hope the Americans people will receive the knowledge to know the difference . [coffee]

chipmonk
09-26-2008, 05:35 PM
I hope the Americans people will receive the knowledge to know the difference . [coffee]

Amen Brother.

ramlovingvet
09-26-2008, 05:35 PM
I know we're all gung ho here, but if you are insinuating that I am less of a man because I didn't peruse a military career, that is an interesting stance to take.
Not less just missing something that comes with service.

P.J
09-26-2008, 06:42 PM
Not less just missing something that comes with service.

Sure, I can agree with that. Just as people who have served may have some type of innocence lost thing going on too.

PistolWhipt
09-27-2008, 10:38 AM
I read McCains book Faith of my Fathers ...and it clearly shows the progression of events that lead to his breaking point. He stated that there were many others who were tortured worse than he ... who also broke. He tells of a man who did not break, regardless of the torture ... until they killed him.

Point is, he didn't break for himself or to receive special treatment or even medical attention. He knew they weren't going to give him that anyway ... at least not of any quality.
When a man is being hung by the arms by ropes tied to the rafters and you feel your bones being broken, muscles being ripped, pulled and torn from the bone, fingernails being pulled from the root ... and are beaten down every single day by sticks, boots, tire treads etc. for simple infractions such as trying to communicate with the cell next to you, or because "Americans are wrong" ... there is almost a 99.99999% chance, he is going to break.

And for that same man to make it back and continue to love his country and all that enjoy the freedoms even without making 1 ouce of sacrifice to earn it ... is the kind of man I want to lead my country.

McCain, as well as many, many others, showed more intestinal fortitude and love for their country and personal ideals than anyone I can think of. It kills me to hear ANYONE discounting this sacrifice as a shameful political boost. He uses his experiences as a way to show us all that there is more that can and should be expected of an American than what our spoiled country is allowing today.

I personally believe that every able bodied citizen of America should willingly do at least one tour of duty. I have three sons and a daughter who all know my view on that ... maybe they will and maybe they won't, that is their choice ... but they know where I stand.

My wife, although a military spouse for 20+ years, was never in the military but she profoundly states that she will not vote for a person to be Commander-In-Chief of our military ... who has not served in the military. That speaks volumes to me.

Cheers,
PISTOL

crobtex
09-28-2008, 01:38 PM
So what does GWB have or had to put him where he is?

Not an argument, just how it is........please don't start GW bashing and waste key strokes.

First, GW is not running.

Second, whatever he had, like it or not, he was elected to two terms.

fordkiller43
09-28-2008, 01:48 PM
Given the opportunity I would serve, I assure you I'm in far better physical and mental shape than some soldiers I've known.

fact is youre just talkin to hear yourself talk... [dummy] thats the fact here

to question a mans heroism after he was a POW to fight for yours and our freedom is a pure lack of patriotism. You my friend lack that!!! [nonono]

people like you make me and the soldiers sick while we are bustin our hump serving our country in the middle east while people like ureself sit here in piece and freedom and write up crap like this on forums [rant]

ramlovingvet
09-28-2008, 02:01 PM
fact is youre just talkin to hear yourself talk... [dummy] thats the fact here

to question a mans heroism after he was a POW to fight for yours and pour freedowm is a pure lack of patriotism. You my friend lack that!!! [nonono]

people like you make me and the soldiers sick while we are bustin our hump serving our country in the middle east while people like ureself sit here in piece and freedom and write up crap like this on forums [rant]

Thanks for your service and I agree.
I wish people who don't serve would think before they bash those who do..
It takes a special person to offer themselves for the protection of others with out reward. Face it some people don't have the right stuff.

fordkiller43
09-28-2008, 02:11 PM
Thanks for your service and I agree.
I wish people who don't serve would think before they bash those who do..
It takes a special person to offer themselves for the protection of others with out reward. Face it some people don't have the right stuff.

Thank you sir for youre support and Im sorry to have to go off like that but people like that really set me off.. it blows my mind how people can really feel that way [verymad]

Clayten
09-28-2008, 04:16 PM
Not an argument, just how it is........please don't start GW bashing and waste key strokes.

First, GW is not running.

Second, whatever he had, like it or not, he was elected to two terms.

Not bashing GWB. My point is if Obama is alleged to have nothing to offer, the same can be said about GWB so that makes the point made previously by JH a waste of key strokes.;)

patdaly
09-29-2008, 10:25 AM
Not bashing GWB. My point is if Obama is alleged to have nothing to offer, the same can be said about GWB so that makes the point made previously by JH a waste of key strokes.;)


Whoa there, Governor, businessman ( even though some failed, still experience ).

I would rate that above Community Organizer, unless the job of President has changed..........

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 05:54 PM
Given the opportunity I would serve, I assure you I'm in far better physical and mental shape than some soldiers I've known.

I dont think you could last a week in the military [laugh] But hey JMO right?? [guitar]

LRAmberson
09-30-2008, 06:22 PM
Just food for thought, in your honest opinion now, don't hold back;

How Long do you think Barack Obama would last under Vietnamese torture? The same stuff J Mc took.

Do you think with his character and his creative civic organizational skills he would have taken the early release.[nonono]

I think he wold have really enjoyed meeting Jane Fonda for a photo shoot.

Just my feelings and reminding all to vote early.. oh heck and often.[laugh]:o

alramr
09-30-2008, 07:00 PM
I was in the military and it makes some people better and others not. IMO - four years is enough. As far as voicing opinions - every American is entitled whether those that are serving get the thanks or not. If you are in the military - you signed on the dotted line and that is your job or career. Do your job and shut up. If you lose your life, a body part, get injured by the enemy, or lose a friend - then you or yours have my sympathy and condolences. Do not hold your breath for a Thank you from me. Do not downplay anyone who has not served in the military - it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.

McCain has my respect for being a P.O.W. - but that is it. Has he had to deal with issues that a regular joe had to deal with? Likely not - he married into money which solves a lot of problems. IMO, his time served as a P.O.W. would make him mentally unstable if he had flashbacks. That would make him easier to push the big red button.

John Halter
09-30-2008, 07:07 PM
You read my mind , I have often wondered how Obama would handle the same situation McCain had to endure and in my opinion probably not all that well .
To be fair I have also wondered how I would handle the same situation and I don't think I could come close to holding up as good as McCain did either . After living through all that I can also see how his marriage fell apart when he got home . To live a life of torture for years is nothing you recover from just by being released , it takes years and in many cases never . He is an amazing man no matter what your politics I would think .

alramr
09-30-2008, 07:17 PM
No one will ever no how another will respond to what one person went through. Everyone is an individual and everyone has a breaking point. The strongest man on earth may break in one minute and cry for mama after enduring what McCain went through and on the other hand, the smallest man on earth may have wiped out the enemy in the whole P.O.W. complex and fought himself to freedom in the south. Who knows and it does not matter IMO. Simply - it is like comparing apples to oranges.

P.J
09-30-2008, 07:21 PM
I dont think you could last a week in the military [laugh] But hey JMO right?? [guitar]

Yeah,......right.

You know what they say about opinions, right?[laugh]

John Halter
09-30-2008, 07:24 PM
In a situation of war I would always rather have a man who has served in charge of the button then someone who has not . A man that has served knows what war entails and does not put Americans in harms way lightly in my opinion . When it comes to mental stability I see nothing in McCain's past 20 years that would prevent him from being president . Obama spent 20 years listening to a racist preacher , he was past around to relatives , his farther left him at a young age , he has a lot of Muslim influence in his past , he has no military service all things that mess with a mans mind also . If you don't think there is some resentment in his life explained a half brother living in poverty in Africa that receives no help from him . [coffee]

capt.Ron
09-30-2008, 07:32 PM
Do not hold your breath for a Thank you from me.
That's the difference between you and me. I publicly thank ever service man and woman I run into!!
From your post I get the feeling that you didn't really serve. If you did you must not have been good at it. Why else would you hold the views you do???
it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.
Yea choosing a Venti over a Grande' Latte is much tougher than busting into a suspected Taliban safe house!!!![dummy][dummy][dummy]
IMO, his time served as a P.O.W. would make him mentally unstable if he had flashbacks.
What about 20 yrs of racial brainwashing from a pastor and mentor. Or having a close enough association with an unrepentant terrorist that one would be willing to have the kickoff to his state senate campaign at the home of this admitted terrorist???
That doesn't give cause to worry???

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 07:59 PM
I was in the military and it makes some people better and others not. IMO - four years is enough. As far as voicing opinions - every American is entitled whether those that are serving get the thanks or not. If you are in the military - you signed on the dotted line and that is your job or career. Do your job and shut up. If you lose your life, a body part, get injured by the enemy, or lose a friend - then you or yours have my sympathy and condolences. Do not hold your breath for a Thank you from me. Do not downplay anyone who has not served in the military - it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.

McCain has my respect for being a P.O.W. - but that is it. Has he had to deal with issues that a regular joe had to deal with? Likely not - he married into money which solves a lot of problems. IMO, his time served as a P.O.W. would make him mentally unstable if he had flashbacks. That would make him easier to push the big red button.

You are so off in so many ways and if you served I have a feeling it was not honorable.[duhhh]
. Men and women who served Honorably are a cut above with a few exceptions.
I am glad you are in the land of obama because we have enough koolaid flowing out west here.
obama has served in NO WAY and has less credibility than even clinton to lead our armed forces and that's really sad.

alramr
09-30-2008, 08:21 PM
ron - I do not care who or what you thank. I served my country honorably and did my job for a long time.

I never heard of your favorite beverage and again they signed on the dotted line. So do your job you signed up for and shut up.

In the military you do not have to worry about your next paycheck as long as you do your job, free medical health care for you and the family, roof over your head on base, retirement and health care plan after 20 years. What more could you ask for? Thank every taxpayer that provides these services.

You are so concerned about Obama and socialism - read the 3nd paragraph and think about it. IMO - a glorified welfare system. I would also say that the current housing/bank crisis also has to do with a high number of military personnel living off base foreclosing on their homes.

alramr
09-30-2008, 08:26 PM
Ramloving vet - how did you become a chaplain? Were you trained in the military. With the information you have in your signature appears to make anyone wonder what side you are on - good or evil. It appears evil - since your promoting hatred. I recommend breaking out the Bible and rereading starting at page 1.

I was honorably discharged - so don't try and discredit me or my service to my country.

crobtex
09-30-2008, 09:36 PM
Ramloving vet - how did you become a chaplain? Were you trained in the military. With the information you have in your signature appears to make anyone wonder what side you are on - good or evil. It appears evil - since your promoting hatred. I recommend breaking out the Bible and rereading starting at page 1.

I was honorably discharged - so don't try and discredit me or my service to my country.

Maybe you should recommend reading it to yourself.

And thanks for serving in the military.

crobtex
09-30-2008, 09:42 PM
ron - I would also say that the current housing/bank crisis also has to do with a high number of military personnel living off base foreclosing on their homes.

Not sure it's a good statement, but it is a good question. Why would military foreclosures be higher now than a few years ago? I do know that my Jarhead nephew has bought two house and sold them with no problem when is duty station changed.

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 09:59 PM
I agree.
I wish people who don't serve would think before they bash those who do..
It takes a special person to offer themselves for the protection of others with out reward. Face it some people don't have the right stuff.

I agree with ramlovingvet 110%!!! After deploying 4 times between 2000 and last time in 2005 I just can't help but get mad the more I read this post. All I can say is unless you've been there and shared the brother hood that soilders, sailor's, Marines, and air men share and know the hardships we faced first hand, no one should say that he or she is a better person because he or she know's solders that "HAVE SERVED" and knows he would be a better service member than them... Parden me for saying GO FOR IT THEN!!!! You may be stright and have everything a man could want, but thats because our fore fathers fought for it! and you don't have one thing that those who have served have, a brother hood that you'll never know, Serve your counrty and see first hand what it's like. See what it's like to count on the guy next to you and to know your going into battle with someone you can really count on. I could so keep on this, but am going to shut my mouth... [verymad] BTW sleep tight, a solder, sailor, marine and air men has got the watch... That's why you have all you have!!!!!!

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 10:16 PM
Ramloving vet - how did you become a chaplain? Were you trained in the military. With the information you have in your signature appears to make anyone wonder what side you are on - good or evil. It appears evil - since your promoting hatred. I recommend breaking out the Bible and rereading starting at page 1.

I was honorably discharged - so don't try and discredit me or my service to my country.

I only answered the spew from your pie hole.

You discredit your self you need no help from me.

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 10:18 PM
ron - I do not care who or what you thank. I served my country honorably and did my job for a long time.

I never heard of your favorite beverage and again they signed on the dotted line. So do your job you signed up for and shut up.

In the military you do not have to worry about your next paycheck as long as you do your job, free medical health care for you and the family, roof over your head on base, retirement and health care plan after 20 years. What more could you ask for? Thank every taxpayer that provides these services.


Nothing for the serviceman is free it is earned and they can never pay them enough.
Sleep well they are even serving to protect you and you don't even appreciate it IMHO.

boostjunkie1
09-30-2008, 10:20 PM
I cannot beleive what is going on here..... Shut this thread down immediatly..... There is an old saying of, There are no doors on Americas beaches so if you do not like it here or appreciate what you have because of others sacrafices then get the [tapdshut] out....... I mean that with the highest respect! If you bash anyone that has served our Country proud and have not served yourself then your are the pit of scum. Appreciate what has been given to you by the blood of other PROUD AMERICANS. Not LAZY Americans that this country is full of. [verymad] I'm not saying vote Mcain or Obama, but dont let that superman mouth over run that mickey mouse :o.......... [verymad]....... Done!

Sorry to everyone on here that I might offend with the prior statements. When people close to you have died for this War and Country. Have made the ultimate sacrafice. You do not let ANYONE act like that, anywhere, anytime, without voicing what needs to be said........:(

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 10:31 PM
Yeah, they can shut it down now that I have said what I have said above... Darn cowards that run their mouths and yet don't back it up. I'm PROUD TO HAVE SERVED IN THE BEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD!!!

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-30-2008, 10:35 PM
I was in the military and it makes some people better and others not. IMO - four years is enough. As far as voicing opinions - every American is entitled whether those that are serving get the thanks or not. If you are in the military - you signed on the dotted line and that is your job or career. Do your job and shut up. If you lose your life, a body part, get injured by the enemy, or lose a friend - then you or yours have my sympathy and condolences. Do not hold your breath for a Thank you from me. Do not downplay anyone who has not served in the military - it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.

McCain has my respect for being a P.O.W. - but that is it. Has he had to deal with issues that a regular joe had to deal with? Likely not - he married into money which solves a lot of problems. IMO, his time served as a P.O.W. would make him mentally unstable if he had flashbacks. That would make him easier to push the big red button.

Disgusting...Absolutely Disgusting [yuk]


The military is like any other job, you only get out of it what you put into it... No doubt you gave all you were able to and then waited the last 3 1/2 years to get out. [yuk]

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 10:38 PM
Yeah, they can shut it down now that I have said what I have said above... Darn cowards that run their mouths and yet don't back it up. I'm PROUD TO HAVE SERVED IN THE BEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD!!!

I know all of yall aint or were in the army but theres only one thing I gotta say right now....... HOOAH!!!

I am also reenlisting tommorow fellas! Just so I can protect the ***es of those who dont appreciate it for 4 more years!!!!!!!! :D

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 10:43 PM
HOOAH!!! and God Bless!!! Thank you very much for your service and raising your right hand again!!!

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-30-2008, 10:47 PM
Hooah! Thanks for your service Killer! 22 years myself, tried to go 30 but I kept catching too much lead.......

God Bless ALL of our Veterans :)

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 10:50 PM
HOOAH!!! and God Bless!!! Thank you very much for your service and raising your right hand again!!!

Thank you and ts an HONOR to serve [guitar]

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 10:51 PM
Hooah! Thanks for your service Killer! 22 years myself, tried to go 30 but I kept catching too much lead.......

God Bless ALL of our Veterans :)

Does the phrase duck mean anything to you?[duhhh]

Thanks for doing it Top.:cool:

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 10:51 PM
Hooah! Thanks for your service Killer! 22 years myself, tried to go 30 but I kept catching too much lead.......

God Bless ALL of our Veterans :)
Thank you Larry! I am only at 6 years so I got quite a ways to go yet. Thank you for serving and if you dont mind me askin I am guessin you got out as an E-8?

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 10:52 PM
[yuk][QUOTE=alramr;2227855] it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.


Well if it's so darn easy in the military world, why didn't you stay in the military???? [tapdshut]

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 10:52 PM
Does the phrase duck mean anything to you?[duhhh]

Thanks for doing it Top.:cool:

[laugh] thats a good one

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 10:53 PM
[yuk][QUOTE=alramr;2227855] it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.


Well if it's so darn easy in the military world, why didn't you stay in the military???? [tapdshut]

easy countryboy.... [laugh] lets try to get this thread piped down a bit. We have all spoken our feelings on the matter :o [laugh]

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 10:55 PM
[yuk][QUOTE=alramr;2227855] it is a lot harder to live in the real world than in the military world.


Well if it's so darn easy in the military world, why didn't you stay in the military???? [tapdshut]

I wondered the same thing.[duhhh]

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-30-2008, 10:55 PM
Thank you Larry! I am only at 6 years so I got quite a ways to go yet. Thank you for serving and if you dont mind me askin I am guessin you got out as an E-8?

Actually retired an E-9 but never really carried the name Smadge because I was wounded before attending Smadge school. Out of respect for the good Smadges I knew, I kept "Top" ;) since I hadn't walked the walk ;)

boostjunkie1
09-30-2008, 10:56 PM
Thanks to all that serve, have served, and sign up to serve...... GOD BLESS YOU ALL and GOD BLESS AMERICA [roll]

Lary Ellis (Top)
09-30-2008, 10:57 PM
Does the phrase duck mean anything to you?[duhhh]


Some one hollered "Get Down!"....I got up and started dancing, next thing I knew I was on a dust off [laugh] I always had bad timing when it came to women and dancing [duhhh]

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 10:58 PM
Sorry, just the more I read the more mad I get...

fordkiller43
09-30-2008, 10:59 PM
Actually retired an E-9 but never really carried the name Smadge because I was wounded before attending Smadge school. Out of respect for the good Smadges I knew, I kept "Top" ;) since I hadn't walked the walk ;)

Youre a good man for it Top! Well Im gonna call it a night! Gotta be ready for the big day tommorow! Later fellas and god bless!!!! [guitar]

capt.Ron
09-30-2008, 11:34 PM
ron - I do not care who or what you thank.
That's exactly why I don't believe you served. There's nothing wrong with that...service is not for everyone but to claim you did for the sole purpose of discounting others is completely disgusting!!!

So do your job you signed up for and shut up.
Maybe you should follow your own suggestion. It would be a service to the country!!

In the military you do not have to worry about your next paycheck as long as you do your job,
Nah just the bullets!!
free medical health care for you and the family, roof over your head on base, retirement and health care plan after 20 years. What more could you ask for?
A little respect from the scumbags of this country would be nice!!
Thank every taxpayer that provides these services.
No every tax payer should thank them for giving us the freedom and security to pay those taxes.

You are so concerned about Obama and socialism - read the 3nd paragraph and think about it.
Third paragraph???? where? Who's post?

I would also say that the current housing/bank crisis also has to do with a high number of military personnel living off base foreclosing on their homes.
So it's our honorable service men and women who is to blame for the financial issues we're going through???
Silly me I thought it was the folks with no credit and speculators that caused it![dummy][dummy][dummy][dummy]

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 11:51 PM
Hey Ron I wont waste any more time on obmas mouth piece. He is just spewing to hear him or herself or its self . Dont ask dont tell ya know!

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 11:52 PM
(LOL) on the taxpayers comment, I swear remembering paying taxes while I was in.... Well except while I was in the hazardious duty zones... Oh, and I so loved being there!!! It was so much fun!!! [yuk]

ramlovingvet
09-30-2008, 11:56 PM
(LOL) on the taxpayers comment, I swear remembering paying taxes while I was in.... Well except while I was in the hazardious duty zones...
another clue to lack of service.[nonono]

COUNTRYBOY
09-30-2008, 11:59 PM
Yeah I'm throwin in the BS flag on that ido[tapdshut]

COUNTRYBOY
10-01-2008, 12:15 AM
Here's a reminder for those who need it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdCDbLYhTVo

http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=176161&page=3

http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=170597&page=6

I've defended freedom and am proud to have done so...

crobtex
10-01-2008, 06:22 AM
Everyone needs to watch those videos again. Thanks for posting.

And thanks to all of you past and present military folks. Hang in there Fordkiller43, well done.

herb
10-01-2008, 08:11 AM
[QUOTE=P.J;2223347]I have not, and there well could be.

That is totally different! Kerry is a democrat.

capt.Ron
10-01-2008, 08:15 AM
[QUOTE=P.J;2223347]I have not, and there well could be.

That is totally different! Kerry is a democrat.

Huh????...........................

alramr
10-01-2008, 12:10 PM
It is clear to me - vetlovingram cannot understand, ron takes everything personal and out of context, and larry provokes. Great job for blowing smoke and being insulting. I'm sure you all attracted more new folks to sign onto this forum with your less than intelligent responses.

crobtex
10-01-2008, 12:25 PM
It is clear to me - vetlovingram cannot understand, ron takes everything personal and out of context, and larry provokes. Great job for blowing smoke and being insulting. I'm sure you all attracted more new folks to sign onto this forum with your less than intelligent responses.

I'm always right and everyone else is wrong and does not have the right to an opinion or statement.

EBunger
10-01-2008, 01:05 PM
So McCain is vet OK that makes him perfect for running the Country? Vietnam made him love his country? I'll bet it made him feel a little like this country owed him something though after everything he went through. Obviously he hasnt settled the debt yet after everything the USA has given back to him and he wont stop til when? Thats what I think its about GREED. Bottom line he is a tick away from a heart attack and his running mate is the most incompetent person I've seen even more so than Dan Quayle.

crobtex
10-01-2008, 01:23 PM
So McCain is vet OK that makes him perfect for running the Country? Vietnam made him love his country? I'll bet it made him feel a little like this country owed him something though after everything he went through. Obviously he hasnt settled the debt yet after everything the USA has given back to him and he wont stop til when? Thats what I think its about GREED. Bottom line he is a tick away from a heart attack and his running mate is the most incompetent person I've seen even more so than Dan Quayle.

You best go do a search and see his comments on what he owes his country. If you really believe your statement, you'll do the search. His health is probably better than most half his age. Did you like FDR?

Yes, it makes him much better than a 143 day Senator that has never ran anything but his mouth and has no experience other than associating convicted criminals, admitted radical terrorist and 20 years listening to a racist preacher. Even Palin has more of every level of experience than obama and Joey B. has even announced publicly that he is not the most qualified.

Other than that, you sound very bitter and confused.

John Halter
10-01-2008, 01:26 PM
And that person has way more experience then Obama and she is running in the number two spot . Governor or community organizer that is a no brainer and as a community organizer Obama sued the banking industry in Chicago so they had to give loans to people who were not qualified and won . Those people defaulted and guess what the bank lost money . This law suit by Obama set president for other law suits at other banks and was instrumental in helping us to were we are now , all back in 1994 .
But since he is your man you must know this already , along with all the other interesting facts about Obama .

EBunger
10-01-2008, 01:37 PM
Experience with what? Extortion? Obama is not my man just lesser of 2 evils I think. Who deregulated Wall Street? Oh ya McCains collegue Bush and his administration. How much experience did Ronnie or Billy have? We'll see after the VP debate if Sarah babe has any cojones but she looked like a moron at her Couric interview.

John Halter
10-01-2008, 01:55 PM
Who went to court so people who could not afford a bank loan could get one at 125% the appraisal value in many cases . This all happened in 1994 and set president for this mess causing the housing market collapse to take the banking industry with it . Yes everyone should own a house even if they don't have a job because we ran the jobs out of the country with higher tax's . Lets give them all health care to and let the working suckers pay for it . Yes with Obama in charge we should all just quit working and be better off . [duhhh]

capt.Ron
10-01-2008, 03:05 PM
It is clear to me - vetlovingram cannot understand,
Educate us!! So far all you've done is spew loads of B/S.
ron takes everything personal and out of context
What did I take personal and out of context???? You're disgusting statement that the president should be dead??
Great job for blowing smoke and being insulting.
hmmmm pot/kettle/black comes to mind right there!!
I'm sure you all attracted more new folks to sign onto this forum with your less than intelligent responses.
"Wah!!!" "Somebody call a Wambulance!!!"
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/S/7/democrybaby.jpg

EBunger
10-01-2008, 03:15 PM
Who went to court so people who could not afford a bank loan could get one at 125% the appraisal value in many cases . This all happened in 1994 and set president for this mess causing the housing market collapse to take the banking industry with it . Yes everyone should own a house even if they don't have a job because we ran the jobs out of the country with higher tax's . Lets give them all health care to and let the working suckers pay for it . Yes with Obama in charge we should all just quit working and be better off . [duhhh]

Good hopfully they all learned from it.

alramr
10-01-2008, 03:31 PM
You three represent the military (retired and active). I would suggest toning it down and stop acting like a..... or know it alls - because you do not.

Remember this is a free country and that anyone is entitled to their opinion whether you like it or not. They have their own justification and reasoning and let it be.

You folks wasted enough of my time regarding any issue/topic.

Lary Ellis (Top)
10-01-2008, 03:38 PM
You three represent the military (retired and active). I would suggest toning it down and stop acting like a..... or know it alls - because you do not.

Remember this is a free country and that anyone is entitled to their opinion whether you like it or not. They have their own justification and reasoning and let it be.

Unlike YOU we KNOW that the reason you have these freedoms is because someone like US did a job you were not capable of doing to ensure you have those freedoms.

With the Freedom of Speech comes the responsibility of using Common Sense as well ;)

You folks wasted enough of my time regarding any issue/topic.

Next time, THINK before you post and it won't be such a waste of time ;)

chipmonk
10-01-2008, 03:42 PM
wow, sometimes reading the posts of the fake right and the loony left around here make me understand how we're continually presented with 2 candidates that i wouldn't want running my local library, much less my country. then everyone gets on board to support them, ignores the years of corruption, poor choices, poor voting records, and lack of support for their constituents, to claim that they're the one that will solve our problems (even though they helped cause the problems in the first place).

capt.Ron
10-01-2008, 03:46 PM
You three represent the military (retired and active). I would suggest toning it down and stop acting like a..... or know it alls - because you do not.
Yea come on guys it's not fair for us to oppose alramr's weak assertions with facts that blow his attempt at making a case completely out of the water!!
After all this youngster is probably just past those formative high school yrs. We wouldn't want to enfluence his mindset with factual information!!

Remember this is a free country and that anyone is entitled to their opinion whether you like it or not.
Yes this is true and those who find those opinions incorrect have the right to openly oppose them.....that's called a debate!!
You folks wasted enough of my time regarding any issue/topic.
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/S/7/democrybaby.jpg
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/laughing-019.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/drunk-irish-048.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/laughing-019.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/drunk-irish-048.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/laughing-019.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/drunk-irish-048.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/laughing-019.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/drunk-irish-048.gif

P.J
10-01-2008, 05:32 PM
Mmm, this is getting silly. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a minute before posting.

I can see "banned" under peoples user names if this keeps up.

crobtex
10-01-2008, 05:37 PM
Mmm, this is getting silly. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a minute before posting.

I can see "banned" under peoples user names if this keeps up.

DANG! PJ has posted something I have to agree with. We all need to remember that these are "discussion" forums.

alramr
10-01-2008, 06:53 PM
So far I have been personally insulted by being called a coward, disgusting, a liberal, a Democrat, and a young high schooler. Hmm - all of your and anyones assumptions about me were wrong again. Nothing in my previous posts in this thread indicated all the above; however, three ring leaders, mentioned below made these incorrect assumptions. Good job for being ignorant.

No regrets or loss on my part; however, I no longer need to be associated with DTR, considered an association with DTR, or recommend an association with DTR to anyone due lary, ron, and your honorable chaplain that ignorantly and arragontly post BS.

P.J
10-01-2008, 07:22 PM
No regrets or loss on my part; however, I no longer need to be associated with DTR, considered an association with DTR, or recommend an association with DTR to anyone due lary, ron, and your honorable chaplain that ignorantly and arragontly post BS.

Beat it, you aren't already gone yet?[director]

capt.Ron
10-01-2008, 09:27 PM
No regrets or loss on my part; however, I no longer need to be associated with DTR, considered an association with DTR, or recommend an association with DTR to anyone due lary, ron, and your honorable chaplain that ignorantly and arragontly post BS.
I knew a kid in grade school that acted just like that....If he couldn't win he took his ball and went home!!!
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/ist2_1795210_cry_baby.jpg

ramlovingvet
10-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Wow someone needs a HUG and some tougher Skin.

COUNTRYBOY
10-01-2008, 10:06 PM
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!!!!

Lary Ellis (Top)
10-01-2008, 10:26 PM
Ok guys, lets try to get this back on track, I apologize for adding to the fray as well it just really ticks me off when I see some one talk trash about a Veteran.... The reason being we would most likely be speaking German or Japanese if it were not for the sacrifices made by Our Veterans.

ramlovingvet
10-01-2008, 10:39 PM
Do I have to go to the corner again?

COUNTRYBOY
10-02-2008, 12:46 AM
Do I have to go to the corner again?

LMAO, I guess I'd be in there too.... Oh Well.

ramlovingvet
10-03-2008, 10:35 AM
OK Countryboy no ones looking lets make a break!!!!!!

COUNTRYBOY
10-06-2008, 01:42 PM
OKAY,! COVER ME!!!!! [laugh]