http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_veepstakes

..

This will probably help McCain win some of the female votes. And this is history in the making with a female on the Republican VP ticket.

I don't know much about her but im sure he picked her to help neutralize whatever Obama's "Strengths" are that might put McCain at a disadvantage.

She is young (44), attractive, female. That has to help the McCain ticket's image in a lot of ways.

..

She is a life member of the NRA. And has a son heading for Iraq

I think that was a good move she is not your typical Washington insider/criminal and she has done a lot more in her short career than osama [laugh]
I bet that choice has really shook the *ell out of the dumocrat camp:o
She should be able to pick up most of the hillary leftovers and has a good sense of what is actually going on in america and what the average persons struggles and needs are currently. That is what we need a real person with guts and values not just another what can i do for me type of politician.
If McCain actually listens,respects,and works with her it could be good for all of us i think. At least i see some promise with this pair with the other two [nonono]

Swim suit pics needed!!!!
Ok, on the serious side, it looks like a good move. Basicly an unknown, so the dems need to go on the search+attack and that can hurt them.

Swim suit pics needed!!!!

[laugh][laugh]

She's a lady that apparently enjoys being a mom (unlike Hillary), she has her head screwed on straight as far as abortions are concerned, clean background from what I see, and still has small-town roots and ethics .... these are all a plus with me.

I was honestly expecting Colin Powell to be the choice ... but this will work just fine ... she's much nicer looking than Mr. Powell too !!

Cheers,
PISTOL

Swim suit pics needed!!!!
Ok, on the serious side, it looks like a good move. Basicly an unknown, so the dems need to go on the search+attack and that can hurt them.

At least all the adds we will have to endure on tv won't scare you to look at them like they would have with billary[yuk][yuk][laugh]

I bet osamas now saying to his crony's i knew i should have picked billary:(

She is also PRO-DRILLING:D:D:D:D:D

I really liked what she had to say. I wasn't on the fence or anything but it put me at ease with Mccain. NRA a plus. Easy on the eyes also :o

Very interesting choice. McCain has been hammering Obama for "his lack of experience", yet she has even less and is only one heartbeat away from the Presidency. Wonder how he is going to reconcile that. Oh, I know, he will defend his position, no doubt about that.
Her take on the VP, "just what exactly does the job entail?"

I am still trying to figure out the whole less experience than obama deal that all the news outlets are hammering on. Obama was a state senantor for eight years that voted present most of the time and never took a stand on anything that might draw atention to himself. He has been a us senator for less than 2 years and has been campaining for president nearly that entire time.
Small town mayor, Governor for 2 years, whatever. At least she has RUN something and stood up for what she believed during the time she has been there. I don't think she ran for the Governor job with presidential aspirations in mind as her first priority. Obama has been running for president his entire adult life with every move in his life being a calculated move to get there.
just my 2 cents

Who was the last VP or VP candidate that made you think to yourself "I'd hit that". [laugh]

Waiting for someone to whisper "Mondale" [tapdshut][laugh]


I don't sweat the lack of experience thing so much with this gal as I do with Obama.

We all know that when a guy is lost ... he ain't gonna stop and ask for directions !!

If we were to come to blows in another war and McCain kicks the bucket, at least she looks smart enough to call the military advisors in and say "I'm gonna need some backup here, fella's".

Cheers,
PISTOL

Who was the last VP or VP candidate that made you think to yourself "I'd hit that". [laugh]

well, i wouldnt mind giving old darth cheney a good beating, not the same kind of "hitting" your speaking of though.

Wow! Bet none of you saw this one coming.

Experience: Mayor of Wasilla (population estimated at around 9500). Very impressive.
Less than one term as Governor of AK.

I hear they are really hyping up her foreign policy experience since she‘s had to deal with those awful Inuit, Athabascan and Tlingit tribes in Alaska. She should be able to handle some rogue Sunni and Shia tribes.

Seriously though, for all the conservatives (McCain included) that have been making such an issue of Obama’s experience, it just adds more fuel to the hypocrisy and irony of the right. Grandpa McCain at 72 years old and health challenged, is picking this woman as a running mate. Is she really the best that the re-pup-licken party can come up with? Really? I think what is says is that they have an extremely weak bench, or that McCain is out of his mind. I would lean toward the latter since I know that there are plenty more qualified than her. I would be willing to bet that most of you on this forum never even heard of her before this, yet she’s already the greatest thing since the invention of the diesel engine.

re-pup-licken party

Clever.:rolleyes:

I would be willing to bet that most of you on this forum never even heard of her before this, yet she’s already the greatest thing since the invention of the diesel engine.

Not true, she's been interviewed by Glen Beck and questioned about a VP spot. In Alaska she has a 90% approval rating and her targets were Republicans.

BO is a dangerous pick for pres. and Biden is a mental case. Won't be long before the dems are doing damage control from Biden's mouth.

I haven't read anywhere that folks think she's greatest thing... Most here are hard working, American loving folks that want what's best for the U.S. I believe she represents the thinking of a large section of the country.

At 3 a.m. when peace goes south I don't want BO making the call. McCain is a great leader although I don't agree with everything he says. Given the current world and domestic situations, McCain/Palin make more sense then BO/Biden.

Regardless, try not to lump everyone into the category you hate most. You might find that many of us think a lot like you and even if we don't we aren't going to label you, one way or another.

I saw her on Glenn Beck and thought she came across very well. I think she will do fine!

You know the Demonrats will all whimper and whine now that the Republicans picked a gal:o. They know its the last nail in the bigots coffin.
He should have picked Billery he would have had a good chance of winning.

I wish it was Condi on the ticket.

Won't be long before the dems are doing damage control from Biden's mouth.

Yes, this could be very true since he tends to speak his mind. But then again, you could say the same thing about McCain. It won't take much at all to push his buttons.


I haven't read anywhere that folks think she's greatest thing... Most here are hard working, American loving folks that want what's best for the U.S. I believe she represents the thinking of a large section of the country.

Yeah, okay. Lots of praise for her going on here. But my reference was toward her qualifications.

McCain is a great leader although I don't agree with everything he says.

What makes him so great?

Regardless, try not to lump everyone into the category you hate most.

Huh? This is typical response to anyone who's opinion is different from the over whelming re-pup-licken majority on this board. Now I'm a hater?

Waiting for someone to whisper "Mondale" [tapdshut][laugh]


I don't sweat the lack of experience thing so much with this gal as I do with Obama.

We all know that when a guy is lost ... he ain't gonna stop and ask for directions !!

If we were to come to blows in another war and McCain kicks the bucket, at least she looks smart enough to call the military advisors in and say "I'm gonna need some backup here, fella's".

Cheers,
PISTOL

I agree... Talk about a ACE in the hole... Life time member of the NRA!!! WOW!!! She's fishes and hunts, is she single???? [coffee]

Now I'm a hater?

I think that has become self evident simply by reading your comments here.

I have yet to see you make a comment here without tossing in insults or barbs, seems like a person should be able to make a point just as easily in a respectful manner........ That is if you are capable of discussion in a respectful manner.

Life time member of the NRA!!! WOW!!! She's fishes and hunts, is she single???? [coffee]

What I want to know, is how long before she shoots somebody in the face and then gets an apology from the victim?[laugh]

Boy, he sure is making my decision [coffee]hard to make.

I think that has become self evident simply by reading your comments here.

Yeah, they're different than yours and the 80% majority!

Spewguy - you hit nail on the head.

They make it sound like the best thing that ever happened since toilet paper was invented.

If this dynamic duo is voted in the White House, it will be like watching the Beverly Hillbilly show instead of the freak show we have now.

Spewguy - you hit nail on the head.

They make it sound like the best thing that ever happened since toilet paper was invented.

If this dynamic duo is voted in the White House, it will be like watching the Beverly Hillbilly show instead of the freak show we have now.

Spewguy? Hehehe[laugh]

Now let me tell you a story about a man named Jed.........

Very interesting choice. McCain has been hammering Obama for "his lack of experience", yet she has even less and is only one heartbeat away from the PresidencyEven closer than one heartbeat in McCain's case.
Who votes for the VP anyway. Who can remember who Reagan's or Carter's VP was?
I can't.

Even closer than one heartbeat in McCain's case.
Who votes for the VP anyway. Who can remember who Reagan's or Carter's VP was?
I can't.

George H. Bush

Walter Mondale

Yeah, they're different than yours and the 80% majority!

Very true, even though I disagree with you, I attempt to show you respect as I make my comments.

Nope, never heard of her before. But, she's run a town, run a business, run a large household with a handicap child involved, running a state, has a proven record attempting to stop gov't. corruption, has been more productive fighting big oil than the intire, liberal U.S. senate, who just called all the oil-heads in to waste their time and did nothing more than to further empower them by only slapping them on the hand, and still has time to be highly active in her hobbies, hockey, firearms, whatever. I don't understand how she can be considered any less experienced than guys like Obama, Edwards, Piloci, etc. In that party you're either Kennedy, Clinton or a sheep following one of them. I guess you have to cheat on somebody, kill somebody, or invent the internet to get their support? Obama spent most of his professional career in a field known to have an extremely high percentage of sheisters and crooks, that's somebody I want handling my tax dollar.

I'm having a hard time containing my excitement over McCain's selection.

Very bold move on his part...and smart...real smart. I've been reading his blog and it seems that a lot of Billary supporters are already making their move. You have to respect a woman like her, and I have no doubt that she could run this country effectively if something happened to the old man. I've gone from 85% confidence in McCain to 100%.

Very bold move on his part...and smart...real smart. I've been reading his blog and it seems that a lot of Billary supporters are already making their move. You have to respect a woman like her, and I have no doubt that she could run this country effectively if something happened to the old man. I've gone from 85% confidence in McCain to 100%.



I have to agree 100 percent. :)

..

the democrats have just lost the election and they know it.the only responces you will hear from them now will be sour grapes.

the democrats have just lost the election and they know it.the only responses you will hear from them now will be sour grapes.Don't start cheering till the last vote is counted, it will be very close and you could well be the one crying sour grapes.

I feel sorry for Sarah Palin and her family if they should win.
Myself I couldn't imagine moving from the beauty of Alaska to a congested dump like DC.

I don't understand why the Democrats aren't elated with the fact that a woman has finally made it to the ticket for a chance at the highest office of this land. Aren't they the party that champions the woman's trek toward manhood and/or positions normally associated with male occupation? Oh...wait, this woman doesn't abort her babies; doesn't believe same-sex unions are the norm; is a member of the NRA; etc.

Talk about hypocrisy...... it's because Palin is a republican why the Democrats are belittling her accomplishments. There is NO WAY anyone can justify saying she is not more qualified than Barak Hussein Obama. She's been an elected official since 1988 (even if only city council - now Governor). If Democrats have any integrity they'll admit that BHO is not their most qualified person to represent their party to lead this GREATEST NATION ON GOD"S GREEN EARTH.

Unlike most Democrats, I know that no matter what party is in the white house, this IS the greatest nation on earth!!

All I can say is I respect a woman that's packing heat.[whistle]

MikeyB

Nope, never heard of her before. But, she's run a town, run a business, run a large household with a handicap child involved, running a state, has a proven record attempting to stop gov't. corruption


yup. she did run a town....a very small town...in the middle of no where....there was a 22 year old kid who ran a town in AK too. My mom ran a fishing boat, can she run for VP?

I dont think bringing the handicapped child into it is relevant to her experience, the child is a newborn.

and if you think she is running a state that has a proven record at stopping govt corruption, you should go to www.KTUU.com and read all about how she has been using her power to fire the head of public safety because she wanted to fire her ex brother in law who worked in his office, and he wouldnt do it......yeah, she is a shinning role model.

all you have to do is ask any state employee when she was the mayor, she has done some wily things in her past. trust me, the dirt is there, and it will be found.

as for seeing her in a bikini, just look it up, she used to be a beauty queen, and she was in vouge magazine, I am sure it is there somewhere.


NOW. onto the positive stuff.....she is really nice!

Don't start cheering till the last vote is counted, it will be very close and you could well be the one crying sour grapes.

I feel sorry for Sarah Palin and her family if they should win.
Myself I couldn't imagine moving from the beauty of Alaska to a congested dump like DC.



Bill, I definately agree that this race is not over. I do think that Palin is going to help McCain more than Biden will help BO.


And Alaska....oh my it's my dream to live there!!! I don't even want to VISIT DC..........[tapdshut]

..

I feel sorry for Sarah Palin and her family if they should win.
Myself I couldn't imagine moving from the beauty of Alaska to a congested dump like DC.[/QUOTE]

My sentiments exactly. I also can't imagine how the intensity of the national spotlight will feel on such a small insular family during the campaign. I will bet hubby will have a fit after a while, can't take the heat and I will not blame him.

Boy, he sure is making my decision [coffee]hard to make.

Ah, Herb just give it a try for a while, you can always go back if you want.

Can you start by changing your avatar? I would rather see Sarah on there than Hillary. [coffee]

Ah, Herb just give it a try for a while, you can always go back if you want.

Can you start by changing your avatar? I would rather see Sarah on there than Hillary. [coffee]

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] Now there is something we can agree on!

at least she isn't dragging a bounch of IOU's with her and a lot of luggage. that is a refreshing start, i'd like to see where it goes. she is pure aggressive business

Well we don't have much to pick from "AS USUAL", but take a good look at the two party's and seems to be a "perty" easy choice. GO HILLBILLY'S!!! J/K [dummy]

[QUOTE=ian515;2193761] yup. she did run a town....a very small town...in the middle of no where....there was a 22 year old kid who ran a town in AK too. My mom ran a fishing boat, can she run for VP?

Still more than Obama has run I believe... maybe I'm wrong?

I dont think bringing the handicapped child into it is relevant to her experience, the child is a newborn.


It proves she was willing to accept the challenge, not urn away.


and if you think she is running a state that has a proven record at stopping govt corruption, you should go to www.KTUU.com and read all about how she has been using her power to fire the head of public safety because she wanted to fire her ex brother in law who worked in his office, and he wouldnt do it......yeah, she is a shinning role model.

I did here of this, in most states the head of a department is at the will of the governor anyway. Most lose there job with the election. Not unionized or contractoral. He wants to avoid politics, he could probably go back to road patrol?


all you have to do is ask any state employee when she was the mayor, she has done some wily things in her past. trust me, the dirt is there, and it will be found.

I hope it it IS found if it's there, before I vote. I'd still like to weigh them all against the folley's of the other contenders.

as for seeing her in a bikini, just look it up, she used to be a beauty queen, and she was in vouge magazine, I am sure it is there somewhere.

I might do that, thanks!

Whoo Hoo, Gun totin, oil drillin, babe of a candidate!! Maybe the stink from McCain isn't so bad, but then again.



At least I can vote a little easier against Obama. I was going Barr. But well see.

Condoleea Rice, how coud McCain pass her up for a VP canditate over Palin [dummy]

Condoleea Rice, how coud McCain pass her up for a VP canditate over Palin [dummy]Because she said she wasn't interested

Condoleea Rice, how coud McCain pass her up for a VP canditate over Palin [dummy]

Because she said she wasn't interested

Also because the whining libs would have cried, Bush Cronie Bush Cronie!!!
I'd have picked her anyway (if she'd have taken it) if for nothing else to watch her brilliantly tear Biden into shreds during the VP debates!![laugh][laugh]

I woulda paid on the pay-per view to watch Condi/Biden.

That would have to be up there with Ali/Frazier.

"Down goes Biden! Down goes Biden!

This is the 1st time in this electorial cycle that I have been excited. And NOT because Gov. Palin is nice to look at, it`s that I can RELATE to her and her ideals, an actual "REAL" person running for POTUS??? whodathunkit

Love the avatar Chris.

I woulda paid on the pay-per view to watch Condi/Biden.

That would have to be up there with Ali/Frazier.

"Down goes Biden! Down goes Biden!

I could not agree with you more ;) No kidding if they actually ran Condi for Pres I would volunteer to work for her campaign locally. She has EVERYTHING Hillary doesn't..... Brains, common sense, Brains, more common sense and an actual back bone :)

Main problem I see with Palin is John McCain.
Too bad she isn't the one running for president.

I really wonder just how often minds are changed? We all have our beliefs and stick to them, mostly in a ridged manner. I am, unfortunately, not that much different. Even if McCain picked Daffy Duck for VP, those who support him would dig, sometimes very hard, for reasons to rally his cause. Same with Obama, if he picked Porky Pig, the results would be the same. I would love to hear from those who have been turned off by the picks of either candidate and have, for any reason, changed their minds. I believe that the partisan politics of the last eight years have divided this great country into mean, spiteful camps where we refuse to even think of working together. How many votes have you seen in your own state or on the national level that have been decided "along party lines"?

Very interesting choice. McCain has been hammering Obama for "his lack of experience", yet she has even less and is only one heartbeat away from the Presidency. Wonder how he is going to reconcile that. Oh, I know, he will defend his position, no doubt about that.
Her take on the VP, "just what exactly does the job entail?"


Man, you got it exactly right [laugh][laugh]

McCain thinks she's well qualified and ready to go. She's asking what the VP does. Oh, but she's "easy on the eyes". Now that is a good qualification, yep, she's ready. When she goes to meet Putin or starts negotiating with Iran or works on an oil contract with Iraq, she can take her NRA card to impress them and get us a better deal.

If the Dems picked somebody like her the Republicans would have a field day running her down. I'm waiting for a "conservative" to question if she is ready to lead our nation during these troubled times. Silence. Aren't politics fun! [laugh]

I really wonder just how often minds are changed? We all have our beliefs and stick to them, mostly in a ridged manner. I am, unfortunately, not that much different. Even if McCain picked Daffy Duck for VP, those who support him would dig, sometimes very hard, for reasons to rally his cause. Same with Obama, if he picked Porky Pig, the results would be the same. I would love to hear from those who have been turned off by the picks of either candidate and have, for any reason, changed their minds. I believe that the partisan politics of the last eight years have divided this great country into mean, spiteful camps where we refuse to even think of working together. How many votes have you seen in your own state or on the national level that have been decided "along party lines"?

Once again you totally nailed it! That says it all. Someday, maybe, but I doubt it, we'll have to start dealing with real issues in an intelligent way. At the very least it won't be untill the rest of the developing world has passed us by. China's tail lights will be fading into the future and we'll be arguing about what a great president Bush was and how the religious right finally got the government alligned with their views and tore up the Constitution to replace it with a new "morality doctrine". The future looks bright! No wait, that's a mushroom cloud.

Once again you totally nailed it! That says it all. Someday, maybe, but I doubt it, we'll have to start dealing with real issues in an intelligent way. At the very least it won't be untill the rest of the developing world has passed us by. China's tail lights will be fading into the future and we'll be arguing about what a great president Bush was and how the religious right finally got the government alligned with their views and tore up the Constitution to replace it with a new "morality doctrine". The future looks bright! No wait, that's a mushroom cloud.



Keep drinking the koolaid[duhhh]

If the Dems picked somebody like her the Republicans would have a field day running her down.
They picked someone even less experienced...Barrack Obama!![laugh]

They picked someone even less experienced...Barrack Obama!![laugh]

And for all of her vast experience she doesn't seem to know what the Vice President does. Now that is a real good qualification. [laugh] [dummy]


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/29/palin-what-is-it-exactly-that-the-vp-does-every-day/



Oh, it's probably more of that left wing conspiracy thing. [laugh]

And for all of her vast experience she doesn't seem to know what the Vice President does. Now that is a real good qualification. [laugh] [dummy]
Do you know what exactly the VP does??? I think not!!
I'm sure you can google it and come up with something but just as most every American you don't know.

Oh, it's probably more of that left wing conspiracy thing. [laugh]
Well considering that the lefists are making hay about her tongue and
cheek comment I'd have to say YEA!!
It's actually just plain stupid...doesn't even equal to conspiracy.[dummy][dummy][dummy][dummy]

And for all of her vast experience she doesn't seem to know what the Vice President does. Now that is a real good qualification. [laugh] [dummy]


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/29/palin-what-is-it-exactly-that-the-vp-does-every-day/



Oh, it's probably more of that left wing conspiracy thing. [laugh]

Well, the current one SHOT his best friend!!!!

Actually, I think she was making a lighthearted joke, by saying 'what does the VP do!!!.
We all know the VP works congress,by being the president of the Senate.
A VP, I hope guides the president on his appointments to the Supreme Court.

Well, ya got me there! I guess I can't name all that the VP does. But wait! McCain didn't pick me to be his running mate. He picked someone that was well qualified.

Tongue and cheek? There's that spin machine in action again. Everything is always and completely perfect with all GOP stuff. Everything is always a conspiracy and lies with the Dems. [laugh] So predictable. It's fun to see a potentially embarrasing comment get spun into being a big asset. I guess, to some, her comments prove she's even better suited than anyone thought.

Let's see, the less experience you have, the better suited you are. The more you admit it, the more qualified you are. The more someone asks about it, the more qualified you are. Sounds like a winning ticket! Oh, wait, that doesn't work for Obama. His experience level works against him. Hmmm. Oh yeah, I forgot, she's a Republican. I'd better go back and read the second paragraph to keep all this straight.

Well, ya got me there! I guess I can't name all that the VP does. But wait! McCain didn't pick me to be his running mate. He picked someone that was well qualified.

Tongue and cheek? There's that spin machine in action again.
Yea you're spinning alright.
You didn't read the article you posted???
It says,
"In a recent television appearance, however, Palin downplayed her V.P. chances by lampooning the office’s professional requirements."

Do you know what "Lampooning" is??

Well, the current one SHOT his best friend!!!!

Actually, I think she was making a lighthearted joke, by saying 'what does the VP do!!!.
We all know the VP works congress,by being the president of the Senate.
A VP, I hope guides the president on his appointments to the Supreme Court.
And I'm sure much, much, more.
Of course depending on what the president wants of the VP will also decide what the job entails.

capt.

Thanks for pointing out that she doesn't take the requirements seriously. Maybe you're beginning to see the light. [laugh] Oh wait, that makes her MORE qualified. I get it.


"In a recent television appearance, however, Palin downplayed her V.P. chances by lampooning the office’s professional requirements."


I'm sure she is a good, well meaning American. Eager to do a good job. But I find it interesting that anything Republican Is ALWAYS perfect. Always. Always perfect. What a neat little box to live in. Lampooning some right wing political choices is just hard to resist. Especially when they are touted as being so right all the time. Always.

Once McCain is in office she'll be a great cheerleader for his agenda. And historic for being the first woman VP. Good. Now let's just hope we are well served by her vast experience and insight. The thought of her standing toe to toe with Putin or Iran is just a bit much. But then again she does carry an NRA card so they'll probably fold under pressure.

But I find it interesting that anything Republican Is ALWAYS perfect. Always. Always perfect. What a neat little box to live in.

Well I'm glad you feel that way but at no time have I or ANYONE on this board (or anywhere else for that matter) tried to paint everything Republican as perfect. Far more perfect than anything democRAT but still far from perfect.

Maybe you are begining to see the light. Republicans are not perfect? Blasphemy!!!! Bite your tongue! [laugh][laugh][laugh]

Until this revelation you've been their biggest cheerleader. Are you OK?

I've got one thing to say...(admittedly I did not read through the entire thread).... PURE GENIUS!!!!!!!

John McCain could not have picked a better running mate... I am what you would call VERY Independent so I have the luxury of being able to look from the outside in. I am neither Democrat nor Republican but McCain's choice of running mate couldn't have been any better. Well played!!!!!

What was Obama thinking by not picking Hillary as a running mate???? Now McCain has chosen a woman as the #2 spot and he couldn't have done any better..

Obama picking Joe Biden???? WTH was he thinking????...

At one time I would have said that the Democrats were a shoe-in for the office but after that??? It is anyone's game...

Britt

:)

Far more perfect than anything democRAT but still far from perfect.
Maybe you might try to be a little less abrasive in the future? I don't particularly care what your views are but when you start spouting your views as facts (from other threads) and everyone else's view (Democrat) as non-factual just because you choose not to believe in them doesn't make you correct. From what I have seen, you seem to spout your Republican views as fact (backed up by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Ann Coulter) but if anyone from the Democrat side says anything you seem to say that they are "wining".... How is this fair and unbiased????

Don't get me wrong.. I am far from Democrat.. I have grown up from my disillusioned views but I think you might also consider doing the same rather than being so abrasive that no one wants to deal with you....

Take this as constructive criticism if you like

Britt

:)

Until this revelation you've been their biggest cheerleader.

Not true.
What I have been doing is to not allow the lies, spin, and the B/S from the left to go uncontested.

I'm not about to praise Palin just because she's a woman. Having a woman in that position is overdue, but that is not the point.

It was an interesting choice and, to some degree, takes the experience issue away with respect to Obama. Neither one has a clear advantage in that department.

I have been predicting a McCain win because I think the fear issue is stronger than the hope issue. Fear of the unknown looses, fear of an unknown change seems risky.

Continuance of the same, while not very good, is still a known, and safe. I think most voters don't take the bigger picture of global security and the dollar's weakness very seriously. They see China as a threat, for instance, instead of how we are doing it to ourselves. Or they see giving billions to our enemies as OK because, for now, they can still get fuel at a reasonable price. Or they don't care about the war and it's cost because their taxes have not gone up to pay for it and there is no draft.

So, being OK short term, or right now, means more of the same is OK too.

I'm not satisfied with the gross incompetence I see in the government and I want our country to be on a smarter stronger path. So I don't like to see people argue that someone with little relevant experience, or someone with a proven track record, that wants things to stay as they are, makes a good choice. No they don't unless they can bring a better vision and less corruption. And how do we know if they can?

McCain will bring more of the same and Obama is a unknown. Problem 1 vs problem 2. Fear and immediate comfort will probably rule election day. Hope for a brighter, smarter path will not.

We can blame the politicians all we want but they are a reflection of the voters and the voters are fearful and easily scared. Fear rules.

Not true.
What I have been doing is to not allow the lies, spin, and the B/S from the left to go uncontested.


Exactly. The Republican's biggest cheerleader. Everything you happen to not agree with is "BS".

There is more than one way to look at things and we all have good intentions. We all bring something to the table and we all have different experiences. Shouting BS does not further the conversation.

Don't get me wrong.. I am far from Democrat.. I have grown up from my disillusioned views but I think you might also consider doing the same rather than being so abrasive that no one wants to deal with you....

Take this as constructive criticism if you like

Britt

:)

Come on Britt you know you are a Dem...[duhhh]
Good to see you.
Hows the Girl?

Maybe you might try to be a little less abrasive in the future? I don't particularly care what your views are but when you start spouting your views as facts (from other threads) and everyone else's view (Democrat) as non-factual just because you choose not to believe in them doesn't make you correct. From what I have seen, you seem to spout your Republican views as fact (backed up by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Ann Coulter) but if anyone from the Democrat side says anything you seem to say that they are "wining".... How is this fair and unbiased????

Don't get me wrong.. I am far from Democrat.. I have grown up from my disillusioned views but I think you might also consider doing the same rather than being so abrasive that no one wants to deal with you....

Take this as constructive criticism if you like

Britt

:)

Well when it's my view I say things like I feel, I think, in my opinion.
Now when I call it fact I base those statements on documented FACTS.
As to Rush Hannity or Coulter;
I never listen to Rush (no time during the day for it), I watch Hannity on occasion, and the only time I hear from Coulter is when she is on the news.
I've challenged many to prove me wrong in my statements and have asked others for proof of theirs. This is where the libs fail. I seldom get a response and when I do instead of answering the questions I get more accusations and/or innuendo.
Yea I know I can be abrasive but I find unfounded lies that the leaders of the left to be much more abrasive. Not saying that some folks here are lying...it could be that they've been fooled into believing the garbage that the leftist leaders have been pumping out for so many years.
Say something loud enough and long enough and folks will start believing it.

Not saying that some folks here are lying...it could be that they've been fooled into believing the garbage that the leftist leaders have been pumping out for so many years.
Say something loud enough and long enough and folks will start believing it.
The same could be said for you my friend.

Britt

:)

Come on Britt you know you are a Dem...[duhhh]
Good to see you.
Hows the Girl?Very good and thank you for asking... How is Sam?

And no.. I am as far from Demo as you are..(ok... maybe not that far but... lol) I think you know as well as I do we don't have much to chose from this election year...

Britt

:)

There is more than one way to look at things and we all have good intentions. We all bring something to the table and we all have different experiences.
True, and when I see misinformation I'm going to point it out. I guess to keep from being a cheeleader I should say nothing when folks are spinning the truth or posting nonfactual info??
Shouting BS does not further the conversation.

Well when it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....It must be a duck.

The same could be said for you my friend.

Britt

:)

I couldn't have said it better.

If only we could get past the knee jerk reactions to others views and realize that caustic comments do more harm than good. It drives people into their corners and makes us all defensive. Meanwhile, issues cannot be discussed because the answers are already decided and the intentions of others are already discounted. It's a bad habit for someone to think they are always right and everyone else has some bad intentions.

The same could be said for you my friend.

Britt

:)

As I've always said prove my words to be false.
The basis of debate is point and counterpoint. If one bases their point on facts then it must be correct. :):)

I've challenged many to prove me wrong in my statements and have asked others for proof of theirs. This is where the libs fail. I seldom get a response and when I do instead of answering the questions I get more accusations and/or innuendo.
Wrong.... Just because you "choose" to either believe or not to believe in the information put before you does not make you right or wrong... My personal problem is with you and not Republicans or Democrats. I have read many of your post and your "I am right and everyone else is wrong" (all the time) attitude is what I have the most problem with. I think if you were to ask most anyone else on this forum they would probably agree...

You allude to the "Libs" as avoiding "your" questions or statements but did you ever consider that most might not want to deal your condescending attitude? To have a true debate you must have respect for each side... Quite honestly... Judging from your previous posts... I have little respect for yours.

P.S. By the way.. Did you notice that I said that McCain was pure genius for picking Palin for VP before you label me a Demo?

Six months ago, before we had a clue who would be the canidate for either side, we were having a political discussion at the office. At that time I stated who the perfect president would be: A mother with several kids, runs a business,and takes care of her own house. If you have ever seen a "super mom" or "soccer mom" (however you want to label them) in action you know they can handle any crisis that is thrown at them. They quickly adapt to circumstances and create results. Oh well .... that's right it's just kids their dealing with. (Kind of like the way some foriegn leaders act huh?) Just food for thought.

Don't under estimate Sarah Palin just because she doesn't have "political" experience. I'm going to reserve my judgement for a later date.

This whole election should prove to be an interesting time in the political history of our nation, hang on for the ride!!

As I've always said prove my words to be false.
The basis of debate is point and counterpoint. If one bases their point on facts then it must be correct. :):)

It's not about someone else proving your words to be false it's about you proving your words to be true with facts. Like you demand from others. Where are they?

Pick some of your favorite "facts" and produce proof that they are, in fact, facts. I haven't seen much beyond accusations and those don't count much with me. Let's see some of the obvious facts that prove your points. I've posted some articles and all you've done is say they were not facts. Show me. You could disprove my posted articles with more and stronger facts.

You mentioned earlier that Bush's problems were Clintons fault. That the left is plotting to bring down the Republican Party. That we did not understand economics because we could not see how Bush has increased revenues and, I guess, made up for the deficit. And what was your characterization of Obama? Communist, or terrorist or what was it? Did it rhyme with someone with a similar name? Osa.....? I can't quite remember because only proof counts. Please show some proof.

Not to get on your case, but it's a two way street and just saying something doesn't make it true. I want to see the proof that there is a plot to bring down the Republican party.

P.S. By the way.. Did you notice that I said that McCain was pure genius for picking Palin for VP before you label me a Demo?

I don't believe that I ever labeled you a DEMO.

How about Palins daughter being Preg?

How about Palins daughter being Preg?



To me that is a total non-issue. It happened, you deal with it and move on. It is a personal family matter, not a political joke/issue.


That should have no bearing on "grandma" Sarah being VP material or not, imo.

That is one thing that I can actually agree with BO on...[laugh]

..

How about Palins daughter being Preg?

Whoever shoots themselves in the head and says that's a disqualifyer, will be losing a large voting base. Pretty sure it'll help her relate to the common family.

She drives a Jetta Diesel and hubby drives a Jetta with 500,000 on it
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/08/31/098086.html

Very good and thank you for asking... How is Sam?

And no.. I am as far from Demo as you are..(ok... maybe not that far but... lol) I think you know as well as I do we don't have much to chose from this election year...

Britt

:)


Was just tieing your fire hose on a knot.
And as far as choices you are right.
Sam just turned two and is doing great.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/samsparents/100_0820-1.jpg

How about Palins daughter being Preg?

Just like her decision to raise her child with Downs Syndrome ... It all ties in to her background of pro-life. As for how she could have a dughter who is preg at 17 .... life happens. She is human and isn't afraid to show it.

This woman is walking the walk ... not just talking the talk ... doesn't matter what the political affiliation or sex, she's got a backbone and stands behind her word ... I for one admire that !!

Cheers,
PISTOL

How about Palins daughter being Preg?

.....and your point is??

Thank God she isn't a "pro-choice" liberal, then that baby might join the 1.3 million (1) other babies aborted in this country every year.

(1) Ref: (Alan Guttmacher Institute, 2002)

I know it's not funny, but what a face. I imagine he would have cold-cocked him if he could.

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,4975,00.html#17_550



Funny face or not, he's getting my vote.

Six months ago, before we had a clue who would be the canidate for either side, we were having a political discussion at the office. At that time I stated who the perfect president would be: A mother with several kids, runs a business,and takes care of her own house. If you have ever seen a "super mom" or "soccer mom" (however you want to label them) in action you know they can handle any crisis that is thrown at them. They quickly adapt to circumstances and create results. Oh well .... that's right it's just kids their dealing with. (Kind of like the way some foriegn leaders act huh?) Just food for thought.

Don't under estimate Sarah Palin just because she doesn't have "political" experience. I'm going to reserve my judgement for a later date.

This whole election should prove to be an interesting time in the political history of our nation, hang on for the ride!!

I agree and I am trying to reserve judgement until I can find out more and listen to her statements on various issues.

On one hand, I don't think replacing some of our "experienced politicians" is necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it would help to break the rhetoric and partisanship that seems to be controlling this country. As Governor, she has shown so far that she is capable of breaking the ranks.

On the other hand, I am not sure she is ready to be #1 in the event that McCain does not survive the Presidency. Just my feelings at this point.

Although an interesting scenario could play out if McCain/Palin are elected. If he chose not to run for re-election in 2012 (due to health or age), or if they got elected to a second term, we could end up with a Hillary vs. Sarah election in the future.

How about Palins daughter being Preg?
On many levels, it should not be a big deal whatsoever......but
the only reason I feel that this could be a issue is because the Republicans have called themselves the party of moral family values for quite some time. You all know if Biden had a pregnant unwed daughter, ALL the right wing evangelicals, Focus on the Family type groups would be having a absolute field day. I always find it so ironic that the religious people who scream the loudest about "family values", seem to be doing the very thing they rail against. How many hypocrite Jim Bakers, Newt Gringrich, Taggert and a bunch of others who have been busted for having affairs or soliciting sex can we stand? Sure, both sides of the aisle have the same problems, I am very aware of that, but it is the Republicans have decided to make their party the one of moral values. If that is so, then the ambassadors who represent that party should at least toe that line. That includes not getting pregnant as a teenager before marriage. That isn't happening with the Palin family. That is why it is a issue, we have a family that represents the Republican platform, which includes "family values" that has fallen short of that definition, in a party that has made "family values" a issue with everybody else. Now they are backpedaling saying how noble it is that the daughter is going to carry the baby to term and marry the Dad. BS.

Well ... Gov. Palin is running for the position of VP, not her daughter. Her daughter, like many of our kids, has made a serious mistake in life and will have to deal with that on her own and should not have to answer to you, me or the rest of the country for that matter. I don't see that it is a reflection on how Gov. Palin will run the country as VP or president.

Kids are gonna to do what kids are gonna do regardless of what we as parents stand for. I know I did my own thing when I was younger ... and it shouldn't reflect poorly on my parents.

Did your past poor judgements cast your parents as poor role models or innefficient leaders ??

I do agree with you on the "Moral zealots" who actively preach on their own higher than thou values ... and then violate those values after bald-faced lies to the contrary. They need to be hung out to dry .... Presidents, VP's, congressmen included (particularly ones using a human humidor [yuk]).

Cheers,
PISTOL

I personally think it is very unfair to condemn an entire family for something one of their family members does, regardless of what party they belong to.

Can all of us call our parents hyprocrites after we did something they taught us not to do?

I guess it's a media thing to make such a big deal out of this while you hear nearly nothing about the fraud, etc charges against Bidens son and brother.

I guess it's a media thing to make such a big deal out of this while you hear nearly nothing about the fraud, etc charges against Bidens son and brother.

[director]exactly[director]

I guess it's a media thing to make such a big deal out of this while you hear nearly nothing about the fraud, etc charges against Bidens son and brother.Just wait, in two days you won't hear anything about Palin's problems either.
What may make trouble for her though is the results of the troopergate investigation are due out Nov 1st. Close enough to the election for people to remember if things don't turn out in her favor.

Just wait, in two days you won't hear anything about Palin's problems either.
What may make trouble for her though is the results of the troopergate investigation are due out Nov 1st. Close enough to the election for people to remember if things don't turn out in her favor.


I take it this is what you are talking about by troopergate.....

It gives you the run down....

CLICK (http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html)

By the looks of that article ... I'd fire the schmuck too !!

Cheers,
PISTOL

What a person does in their personal sexual life is None of the publics business.
I beleived it with Clinton and i beleive it with this family.

I can't phathom that anyone with just a bit of common sense can justify this lady as a good vp choice.

What a person does in their personal sexual life is None of the publics business.
I beleived it with Clinton and i beleive it with this family.

I can't phathom that anyone with just a bit of common sense can justify this lady as a good vp choice.


Well said.

I can't phathom that anyone with just a bit of common sense can justify this lady as a good vp choice.

And a lot of us feel the same way about Obama as pres.

Something I haven't noticed in the media about Palin is that she suspended the state fuel tax for a year to help with the rising fuel costs. Not a bad decision.

What a person does in their personal sexual life is None of the publics business.
I beleived it with Clinton and i beleive it with this family.

I can't phathom that anyone with just a bit of common sense can justify this lady as a good vp choice.

I think it is a bit premature to say that but I may end up agreeing with you.

So far all the press has accomplished is digging up personal dirt on her. Big surprise there. Doesn't seem to be much coverage about the issues she has handled in office, other than the trooper ordeal.

If the public safety organization turns out to be as corrupt as some of the locals are reporting, then she gets a feather in her cap for trying to clean it up. But if it turns out to be purely a personal vendetta issue, then by all means she cannot be trusted to hold a higher office.

I still don't think I will vote for McCain, but I am interested to learn more about her.

Something I haven't noticed in the media about Palin is that she suspended the state fuel tax for a year to help with the rising fuel costs. Not a bad decision.Another thing the media hasn't been reporting is that due to record oil prices the state is billions in the black. They can easily afford to suspend taxes and offer every taxpayer a $1200 rebate check this year.

And a lot of us feel the same way about Obama as pres.


Boy you got that right, El Presidente! Agreed 100 percent.

..

I just don't get this from a "Values" position.

5 Children, one 4 months old (with downs?), one 17 and pregnant.

Seems awfully selfish to me for her to even CONSIDER this post with a family like that. I can tell you that with one child we were very lucky my wife was able to stay at home for almost the first two years. Can't even imagine her taking on a full time job (let alone relocating us all 4K miles away) with FIVE children.

Plus, look at the position this puts her daughter in, nothing like being in the national spot light as an unwed teen mother all so Mom can go down in flames in the worst landslide in all of US history.


Real shame.


She is a pretty hot mommy though, wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers.

Tell you what, if Obama had picked Hillary, McCain wouldn't have even glanced twice her way. Nice tactical move, he should pull a decent number of swing voters out of this, many who disgruntled Clinton supports I imagine.

Another thing the media hasn't been reporting is that due to record oil prices the state is billions in the black. They can easily afford to suspend taxes and offer every taxpayer a $1200 rebate check this year.

I don't remember the details, but that $1200 came directly from money she negotiated from big oil for permits or drilling right of ways or something like that.

I am still trying to figure out the whole less experience than obama deal that all the news outlets are hammering on. Obama was a state senantor for eight years that voted present most of the time and never took a stand on anything that might draw atention to himself. He has been a us senator for less than 2 years and has been campaining for president nearly that entire time.
Small town mayor, Governor for 2 years, whatever. At least she has RUN something and stood up for what she believed during the time she has been there. I don't think she ran for the Governor job with presidential aspirations in mind as her first priority. Obama has been running for president his entire adult life with every move in his life being a calculated move to get there.
just my 2 cents

I agree 100% Obama has never ran anything. Not a town of 9,500 not a state of 670,000. All he has ever done is run his mouth and that mostly when he has a canned speech or when he has teleprompters. He is a great public speaker though, so is Bill and so was Adolph. He even does a great job of faking sincerity.
Obama has less experience than Palin does when it comes to administration. He has none.
What foreign policy experience does he have? He made a trip overseas and got the vote of a lot of Socialists? I don't want Europe to elect our next President.
She fought coruption in Alaska, even in her own party. Check out where a lot of Obama's money has come from and who raised it for him.
Obama is running on change and that he is not George Bush. George Bush isn't running and change is not always good. Tell us how you will do it. Not just pie in the sky promises.

I agree 100% Obama has never ran anything. Not a town of 9,500 not a state of 670,000. All he has ever done is run his mouth and that mostly when he has a canned speech or when he has teleprompters. He is a great public speaker though, so is Bill and so was Adolph. He even does a great job of faking sincerity.
Obama has less experience than Palin does when it comes to administration. He has none.
What foreign policy experience does he have? He made a trip overseas and got the vote of a lot of Socialists? I don't want Europe to elect our next President.
She fought coruption in Alaska, even in her own party. Check out where a lot of Obama's money has come from and who raised it for him.
Obama is running on change and that he is not George Bush. George Bush isn't running and change is not always good. Tell us how you will do it. Not just pie in the sky promises.

See, the problem here is that you aren't pitting VP elect vs. VP elect, lets have the same argument with BIDEN.

I just saw an interview with Ben Stein (go ahead, try to act like HE isn't a smart dude) He said the Palin choice was one of the most perplexing decisions in presidential history. She has ABSOLUTELY zero national economics experience.


No worries, all the talk and tying about her and McCain is a waste, they are destined to be losers.[redface]

On many levels, it should not be a big deal whatsoever......but
the only reason I feel that this could be a issue is because the Republicans have called themselves the party of moral family values for quite some time. You all know if Biden had a pregnant unwed daughter, ALL the right wing evangelicals, Focus on the Family type groups would be having a absolute field day. I always find it so ironic that the religious people who scream the loudest about "family values", seem to be doing the very thing they rail against. How many hypocrite Jim Bakers, Newt Gringrich, Taggert and a bunch of others who have been busted for having affairs or soliciting sex can we stand? Sure, both sides of the aisle have the same problems, I am very aware of that, but it is the Republicans have decided to make their party the one of moral values. If that is so, then the ambassadors who represent that party should at least toe that line. That includes not getting pregnant as a teenager before marriage. That isn't happening with the Palin family. That is why it is a issue, we have a family that represents the Republican platform, which includes "family values" that has fallen short of that definition, in a party that has made "family values" a issue with everybody else. Now they are backpedaling saying how noble it is that the daughter is going to carry the baby to term and marry the Dad. BS.

You mention Focus on the Family like it is something bad. I don't think you understand what people who want good family values are about, the whole goal is to promote those values. If you every read Focus on the Family publications they are full of people who have sinned. There are very few people who want good family values that believe they are perfect. Every Church is full of sinners, that is the reason for going. If that doesn't make sense then think of it this way.
Everyone is an Alcoholic. Some of us realize it, want to do better and have joined AA and are on a 12 step program. We are still alcoholics and some may even take that drink once in a while and then get back on the wagon. We would like everyone to get in the program, but alas not everyone will admit they have a problem.
I don't think Palin's daughter considers herself an Ambassador for the Party. She has gotten pregnant and will live with that for the rest of her life. Thankfully she hasn't made a huge mistake and killed an unborn child to try to make it easier on herself.

See, the problem here is that you aren't pitting VP elect vs. VP elect, lets have the same argument with BIDEN.

I just saw an interview with Ben Stein (go ahead, try to act like HE isn't a smart dude) He said the Palin choice was one of the most perplexing decisions in presidential history. She has ABSOLUTELY zero national economics experience.


No worries, all the talk and tying about her and McCain is a waste, they are destined to be losers.[redface]

I wasn't the one who started comparing her to Obama, it was Baja. Yes, Biden does have much more experience than her. Wait, he has never run anything either has he. He has just voted poorly on many things trying to restrict my rights. I love the fact that Biden has said many times that Obama doesn't have enough experience to be President.

She has ABSOLUTELY zero national economics experience.Must be pretty easy running a state that has so much oil income that it's always been billions in the black.
Wonder how much different it would be running a nation that's trillions in the red?

Iron Mike,

You clarified your point very well. Everyone wants good family values.

But I have to say that Baja nailed it! Well said.

We all know that we are all sinners or that we all make mistakes, that's a given. It's the irony of the right wing being so anti sex education, pro abstinence and so intolerant of other methods of avoiding teen pregnancy that makes this worth mentioning and interesting. And sure enough, the same right wing crowd that screams at others about this issue, claiming they have the moral high ground, rallies around their fellow party member and declares her brave and true to her word, etc. The hypocrisy is so predictable.

None of this makes Palin a bad person. But I hope it helps to tone down the ridiculous rhetoric about the right's method being the only way.

Another point about this is that everyone is treating Bristol's pregnancy like it's a family tragedy or something. We don't know what her and her family really think about it. For all I know they might be thrilled. So it's not right to come at this issue assuming it's tragic, it is going to damage her or be embarrassing. I feel sorry for the poor girl being thrust into the spotlight and her case being reviewed by everyone in the country. Sheesh.

I feel sorry for the poor girl being thrust into the spotlight and her case being reviewed by everyone in the country. Sheesh.

But yet you and others continue to use her and her family as an excuse to throw bombs at the right-wingers. Very nice. That's a form of hypocricy in itself isn't it?

Wow a 17 yo that is pregnant, crap happens and it looks as though they are dealing with it as a family. I applaud them.

Come ride with me at work for a night, I will show you 17 yo girls with 3-4 kids already, all from different fathers. Yup, its hard to uproot a family with young children and move, knowing its only going to be for a few years but what the heck, Obama doesn't mind doing it.

Here is some more fat to chew on. How did Michelle Obama land on a board of directors for one of this country's biggest meat processors making 350k per year immediately following her husbands election to the senate? Kinda makes me go hmmmm.



Tim

You mention Focus on the Family like it is something bad. I don't think you understand what people who want good family values are about, the whole goal is to promote those values. If you every read Focus on the Family publications they are full of people who have sinned. There are very few people who want good family values that believe they are perfect. Every Church is full of sinners, that is the reason for going. If that doesn't make sense then think of it this way.
Everyone is an Alcoholic. Some of us realize it, want to do better and have joined AA and are on a 12 step program. We are still alcoholics and some may even take that drink once in a while and then get back on the wagon. We would like everyone to get in the program, but alas not everyone will admit they have a problem.
I don't think Palin's daughter considers herself an Ambassador for the Party. She has gotten pregnant and will live with that for the rest of her life. Thankfully she hasn't made a huge mistake and killed an unborn child to try to make it easier on herself.


I mentioned FOF and their like for many reasons, and you are right, I don't like them very much. One of their stands is that they have consistently taken the high moral ground of family values. As another subject of long discussion, just what are "family values" anyway? Does my family qualify? I won't go there now. As a part of that stand, they have condemned all others that do not subject themselves to their thinking. Yet as I mentioned before, and have been supported in my view, (thank you) plenty of the biggest supporters have been busted. That hypocrisy is so two-faced. "Do as I say, not as I do".

You bring in a very interesting factor here, the Church. I am 100% for freedom of religion, however, I feel personally attacked when any religion forces their point of view on me. If you and your religion have a belief, that is your personal thing and I think it should be kept that way. What is right and correct for you is not necessarily right and correct for me.

That is why I think this pregnancy is a issue. The FOF and their like wildly condemn such activity, yet when "one of their own" get caught in the web, they backpedal and spin it. I DO NOT blame the kid, not even, please believe me on that. I think she is caught up in a huge tangle that is not of her doing, and I really feel sorry for her. I am just asking for consistency.

You use the alcoholic simile for sinner, I get it. What I don't get is that you may, because of your beliefs, which I respect, consider me a alcoholic. My beliefs are different from yours and just as real, yet I am a alcoholic/sinner in your eyes. Just who is right?

Sarah is a strong supporter of abstinence only sex education, yet her own daughter didn't take to it too well. I don't blame her, hormones are strong, maybe throw in a little boredom. If her own daughter is a example of abstinence only, how is this stringent policy going to work for the rest of the kids?

You mentioned earlier that Bush's problems were Clintons fault.
No I did not. What I did say was that the vitriol that we're seeing in politics today got really bad when Former President Clinton Claimed that president George H. Bush lied when he promised "No New Taxes". A broken promise yea but not a lie.
An excerpt from Wikipedia;
Once he became president, however, Bush was pressured by Democrats and some Republicans to raise taxes as a way to reduce the national budget deficit. Bush refused many times but was making no progress with a Senate and House that was controlled by Democrats. Bush later agreed to a compromise in which he worked with Congressional Democrats to raise several taxes as part of a 1990 budget agreement.
He gave them their request and they used it against him.
That the left is plotting to bring down the Republican Party.
I never said that but they do go to extremes to dishonestly paint a bad image on republicans.
They called Reagan an idiot yet his policies brought down the soviet union.
He also beat Jimmy Carter by a landslide...90% of the Electorate went to Reagan!! Not sure how an idiot can do that
They accused President Bush of lying about the war in Iraq yet the vast majority of them previously proclaimed that Saddam was a threat not only to us but the world and the vast majority of them proclaimed that he possessed WMDs.
Those same DEMs who have accused President Bush of getting us into a war by lying to us voted to authorize this war.
Here's just one.
Up2ySBv5OX0
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday sharply questioned President Bush's competence as a leader, suggesting his policy in Iraq is to blame for the loss of U.S. lives. That assessment drew a furious response by Republicans who called on the Democratic leader to apologize.
If he is so incompetent how in the world did he spank the pants off of the intellectual democrat John Kerry??
Also if President Bush is incompetent this senator is a complete moron.
R7mRSI8yWwg&eur
That we did not understand economics because we could not see how Bush has increased revenues and, I guess, made up for the deficit.
Well at no time did I say that the increased revenues from the Tax cuts made up for the deficit. But I stand behind my statement that the cuts did indeed increase revenues.
July 9, 2006
Surprising Jump in Tax Revenues Is Curbing Deficit
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

WASHINGTON, July 8 — An unexpectedly steep rise in tax revenues from corporations and the wealthy is driving down the projected budget deficit this year, even though spending has climbed sharply because of the war in Iraq and the cost of hurricane relief.

On Tuesday, White House officials are expected to announce that the tax receipts will be about $250 billion above last year's levels and that the deficit will be about $100 billion less than what they projected six months ago. The rising tide in tax payments has been building for months, but the increased scale is surprising even seasoned budget analysts and making it easier for both the administration and Congress to finesse the big run-up in spending over the past year.

Tax revenues are climbing twice as fast as the administration predicted in February, so fast that the budget deficit could actually decline this year.

The main reason is a big spike in corporate tax receipts, which have nearly tripled since 2003, as well as what appears to be a big increase in individual taxes on stock market profits and executive bonuses.
This surprising news is reported by Larry Kudlow, Economics Editor of National Review Online, and host of CNBC’s Kudlow & Cramer:

...at lower tax rates, Treasury coffers are rapidly filling up with rising tax collections. The Laffer Curve is alive and well. Over the past twelve months individual income-tax collections have increased by 15 percent. Non-withheld individual collections, which include stock market-generated capital gains and dividends, have increased 14 percent.

This didnt happen on its own. In June 2003 the president signed tax-reform legislation that immediately lowered the top personal tax rate to 35 percent. Investment tax cuts were also part of that reform. The economys recovery rate subsequently doubled from the new dose of supply-side incentives.

...Deficit teeth-gnashing will go on forever. But there is no evidence that a temporary deficit increase to finance recovery investment has had any ill effect on the economy. Well-run businesses sometimes borrow to invest in future expansion. So must the federal government. The latest government statistics show that private-sector GDP growth is rising at better than 5 percent, while core inflation is a tame 1.5 percent. At 5.2 percent unemployment, the economy is moving steadily towards full utilization of the available workforce.

And what was your characterization of Obama? Communist, or terrorist or what was it?
I've yet to call him either of those names. Since YOU brought it up his leftist ideas are much closer to communism than capitalism but I never called him a communist.
I also don't see him as nor have I called him a terrorist. He is friends with one though. William Ayers!! A man that he has spent much time with.
"The facts are simply this – and no one has disputed these facts," Martin said. "Sen. Obama began his career not 50 years ago, not 30 years ago, not 20 years ago, but maybe in the last five or 10 years. His career began with an unrepentant terrorist named William Ayers in Chicago. Now, I'm not from Chicago, I'm from St. Louis, Missouri. Maybe in Chicago you have to get a sponsor to get into politics that includes unrepentant terrorists or mobsters, I don't know. But in this case, William Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist who bombed the Capitol and helped bomb police stations and killed police officers. And not only did Sen. Obama have his opening kick-off for his state senate campaign in this guy's home, but then the guy gave him money, he served on a board with him for years.

What a person does in their personal sexual life is None of the publics business.
I beleived it with Clinton and i beleive it with this family.

I can't phathom that anyone with just a bit of common sense can justify this lady as a good vp choice.

Hey Firefighter, you don't find this comment abrasive, mean spirited, or improper??
It appears to me that our good friend Herb is accusing anyone considering voting for McCain/Palin of not having common sense.
I'm not offended at all but I thought you might be.:)

I DO NOT blame the kid, not even, please believe me on that.
Well the only one to blame is the kid..well and her boyfriend.

Sarah is a strong supporter of abstinence only sex education, yet her own daughter didn't take to it too well. I don't blame her, hormones are strong, maybe throw in a little boredom. If her own daughter is a example of abstinence only, how is this stringent policy going to work for the rest of the kids?
As a parent I try to teach my kids right from wrong and do everything I can to make sure they follow that instruction. I'm sure Gov. Palin did too but we must remember that we can't be with our kids 24hrs a day.
I wouldn't say her daughter is an example of abstinence but rather a lack of it.
Had she practiced abstinence she wouldn't be pregnant.
Besides whos to say that if she was offered birth control that she might not have slipped up and got pregnant anyway??
What if those hormones were raging yet she didn't have her birth control of choice with her at the time and they went for it anyway?
It's happened many times!!

Hey Firefighter, you don't find this comment abrasive, mean spirited, or improper??
It appears to me that our good friend Herb is accusing anyone considering voting for McCain/Palin of not having common sense.
I'm not offended at all but I thought you might be.:)


Naaa, he is entitled to his opinions and I can respect that, even if i don't agree with them.



Tim

Kinda strikes me as odd ... those who would blast Gov. Palin for having the audacity to run for such an office when she has that large of a family at home ... obviously neglecting their upbringing :rolleyes:.

How many folks are in the military right now with large families, who leave their spouse and kids for 6 months to more than a year ... all in the name of freedom ... and that is perfectly acceptable ... noone blasts them for ruining their childrens lives and scrambling their morals by doing their job on our behalf. We just chalk it up to a decision that they made to defend their country regardless of the cost.

BUT ... they sure will jump on this woman (no pun intended) for doing the same thing. She will still be there most nights to make sure they are doing the right thing ... just as well as you or I would do after a long day at work.

I WANT someone in office who has walked in my families shoes ... someone who shares my families pain of separation for duty, balancing child care & work responsibilities, and someone who is well versed & experienced with families with disabilities. Again folks... this gal walks the walk.

If it was a man running for office who had a large family ... nothing would be said because he would have a wife at home who would take care of those things .... "like any good woman would". Do ya think Gov. Palins ol' man is gonna sit around the house eating bon-bons all day and not make sure the kiddos were taken care of properly ??

Gimme a break with the double standards ...:rolleyes:

Cheers,
PISTOL

Double standards are a fundamental of the conservative christian stance, that and being judgmental, and hypocritical.

She's selfish, period.

Teach abstinence as the only form of birth control, then limit sex education.

Wise move.

Another thing, why is it that she is PRO Gun, ANTI- abortion? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that she would be against killing unborn babies, but for instruments that are able to kill fully grown humans........?

I'm not buying the she's a hunter and fisherwoman nonsense, it's all a big setup to have all the GOP men drooling over her.

Another thing, why is it that she is PRO Gun, ANTI- abortion? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that she would be against killing unborn babies, but for instruments that are able to kill fully grown humans........?



Abortion issues are personal choices. Everyone has the right to believe what they want.

Guns do not have the ability to think or reason. It's the PERSON behind the sights that kill. Just like prohibition and liquor, the bad guys will have guns regardless of the laws. What's wrong with putting good citizens on even ground?

I'm not buying the she's a hunter and fisherwoman nonsense, it's all a big setup to have all the GOP men drooling over her.

Whatever...........it's working. :) Although, I think the women are more excited about her than most men.

Another thing, why is it that she is PRO Gun, ANTI- abortion? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that she would be against killing unborn babies, but for instruments that are able to kill fully grown humans........?

.



Thinking hard about the last time I got robbed by an unborn child!?!?!? Hmmm yep never....[duhhh]

So....If it's considered selfish for her to consider the position with a family like hers, even though the husband is now a stay at home dad.

Then I am curious as how one would classify what Biden did right after he was FIRST elected to the Senate?

(From his Wiki.....)

"On August 27, 1966 (while in law school) Biden married Neilia Hunter. They had three children, Joseph R. "Beau" Biden III, Robert Hunter, and Naomi Christina (aka Amy). His wife and infant daughter died in a car accident shortly after he was first elected to the Senate in 1972. His two sons, Beau and Hunter, were seriously injured in the accident, but both eventually made full recoveries. Biden was sworn into office from their bedside. Persuaded not to resign in order to care for them, Biden began the practice of commuting an hour and a half each day on the train from his home in the Wilmington suburbs to Washington, D.C., which he continues to do."


At least with the Palins' there IS another parent at home.....

Just saying....

Naaa, he is entitled to his opinions and I can respect that, even if i don't agree with them.

Tim
I'm with ya but since I was chastised for my disagreement (or the way I disagreed) with some I thought I might ask him (the chastiser) if Herb's opinion should also receive his wrath. Since it does somewhat accuse others who he does not agree with in lacking good common sense. Doesn't exactly agree with the open minded discussion theory.
I could care less, I have fun with Herb all of the time.

Double standards are a fundamental of the conservative christian stance, that and being judgmental, and hypocritical.

She's selfish, period.

So you're a conservative christian???
I'd have never thought it.[laugh]

So you're a conservative christian???
I'd have never thought it.[laugh]

I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing. :o

Abortion issues are personal choices. Everyone has the right to believe what they want.


Agree 100%.

Problem comes in when you make it a law. And, for a lot of people I know, that is what this election is about. ONE issue voters, you are either for a woman's right to choose or not.

I'm all about guns, I don't even really fully understand why ALL non-felon American citizens are automatically allowed to carry.

Let McCain make THAT part of his platform, I'll vote for him without thinking twice!

Let McCain make THAT part of his platform, I'll vote for him without thinking twice!

I'll pass this on to him. :)

Agree 100%.
for a lot of people I know, that is what this election is about. ONE issue voters, you are either for a woman's right to choose or not.
For me it's a "I could care less" issue. Allow or ban abortion...I don't care either way.
Now for some it's not completely a one or the other. Some are ok with early term abortions and against late term or partial birth.
I'm definitely against partial birth.
Partial Birth Defined by law
An abortion in which the person performing the abortion, deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus. (18 U.S. Code 1531)
I'm all about guns, I don't even really fully understand why ALL non-felon American citizens are automatically allowed to carry.

Let McCain make THAT part of his platform, I'll vote for him without thinking twice!
I think you typo-ed. Did you mean you don't understand why non-felons are NOT automatically allowed?

For me it's a "I could care less" issue. Allow or ban abortion...I don't care either way.
Now for some it's not completely a one or the other.


I think you typo-ed. Did you mean you don't understand why non-felons are NOT automatically allowed?

Did I use a double negative there?

What I am attempting to convey is that if you are a law abiding, non-pedophile citizen, you should be fully within the law to carry a handgun on or about your person.

Oh, yup, I see it now.

I meant to say NOT allowed.

As far as abortion is concerned. Unless I have a womb of my own, I don't see where I should even have a say in it.

Did I use a double negative there?

What I am attempting to convey is that if you are a law abiding, non-pedophile citizen, you should be fully within the law to carry a handgun on or about your person.

That's what I thought you meant. I concur! :)

Another thing, why is it that she is PRO Gun, ANTI- abortion? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that she would be against killing unborn babies, but for instruments that are able to kill fully grown humans........?


Unborn babies can't fight back ... someone needs to make a stand for them. They don't have a need for guns at that age to protect those they love and the things they've worked a lifetime for.

Granted, a life is a life, regardless of what age .... but when there are people out there using THEIR weapons to do harm against US ... why shouldn't we be able to defend ourselves ?

cheers,
PISTOL

I mentioned FOF and their like for many reasons, and you are right, I don't like them very much. One of their stands is that they have consistently taken the high moral ground of family values. As another subject of long discussion, just what are "family values" anyway? Does my family qualify? I won't go there now. As a part of that stand, they have condemned all others that do not subject themselves to their thinking. Yet as I mentioned before, and have been supported in my view, (thank you) plenty of the biggest supporters have been busted. That hypocrisy is so two-faced. "Do as I say, not as I do".

You bring in a very interesting factor here, the Church. I am 100% for freedom of religion, however, I feel personally attacked when any religion forces their point of view on me. If you and your religion have a belief, that is your personal thing and I think it should be kept that way. What is right and correct for you is not necessarily right and correct for me.

That is why I think this pregnancy is a issue. The FOF and their like wildly condemn such activity, yet when "one of their own" get caught in the web, they backpedal and spin it. I DO NOT blame the kid, not even, please believe me on that. I think she is caught up in a huge tangle that is not of her doing, and I really feel sorry for her. I am just asking for consistency.

You use the alcoholic simile for sinner, I get it. What I don't get is that you may, because of your beliefs, which I respect, consider me a alcoholic. My beliefs are different from yours and just as real, yet I am a alcoholic/sinner in your eyes. Just who is right?

Sarah is a strong supporter of abstinence only sex education, yet her own daughter didn't take to it too well. I don't blame her, hormones are strong, maybe throw in a little boredom. If her own daughter is a example of abstinence only, how is this stringent policy going to work for the rest of the kids?

Once again, well said!

The whole idea of declaring one has the high moral ground, and asserting it's true because the Bible says so, and then trying to make it the law, just completely goes against my interpretation of what this country is all about. And what I am all about.

Family values, family planning, raising children and moral judgments are something we all struggle with, dedicate ourselves to and do the best we can with. The last thing I want in government is someone trying to advance politically by forcing their own religious views on me. Pandering to the religious right at the expense of everyone else. Or forcing teachings on my children that haven't even worked with hers. I'm concerned that her idea of doing the peoples business means dividing the people further.

Palin is obviously very conservative and outspoken. She seems to play it right down the party line and has no problem throwing jabs at the other side. Since the Republicans are so abstinence only and anti sex education she should acknowledge that that system may not always work and that there may be other methods that are affective. She seems very inflexible so I'm not holding my breath.

It's really the thing that turns me off the most about the Republican party. The holier than thow, we know what's best because of our religion, and we're gonna cram it down your throat, idealism. Say one thing and do something else. For instance, say small government and fiscal responsibility, then borrow and spend like never before in history.

Unborn babies can't fight back ... someone needs to make a stand for them. They don't have a need for guns at that age to protect those they love and the things they've worked a lifetime for.

Granted, a life is a life, regardless of what age .... but when there are people out there using THEIR weapons to do harm against US ... why shouldn't we be able to defend ourselves ?

cheers,
PISTOL

So, you're against the death penalty then, correct?

I mean, we certainly can't protect a fetus and go on to kill a fully grown man, right?:confused:

We should be able to defend ourselves, but not to protect material possessions that can be replaced.

I mean, we certainly can't protect a fetus and go on to kill a fully grown man, right?:confused:


Well one can argue against the death penalty but the comparison between a fetus and a murderer doesn't quite fit. The fetus did nothing to harm someone else.

Oh no ... I'm all for the death penalty. If they deserve it ... "make mine extra crispy, please !!" Those on death row are fully grown, fully functional human beings that had every opportunity to live right and made the concious choice not to.

Once again ... an unborn fetus doesn't have the luxury of a voice or a choice and should be hands off.

IRT protecting material things that can be replaced ... you don't have a problem with someone coming in and making off with all of your "stuff" ... and won't make an effort to prevent it ??? I don't think I would say that too loud ... especially in some of the neighborhoods near where I live. You're liable to come home to an empty house !! [laugh]

Stuff can be replaced, this is true and shouldn't be a big deal ... unfortunately it is.

Cheers,
PISTOL

Well one can argue against the death penalty but the comparison between a fetus and a murderer doesn't quite fit. The fetus did nothing to harm someone else.
Taking a life, shouldn't matter........

I only even argue (a little) over the death penalty because our justice system is fundamentally flawed. We can all joke about how if we accidentally kill one or two but are justified in the other thousands we'll be okay.

I disagree.

Let that one be a family member of yours who is wrongfully accused, framed, pigeonholed, (which, we all know HAS HAPPENED), that'll change your tone.

Talk about protecting your hard earned belongings, try to keep up with the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of unwanted children, raised by heroin addicts and crack heads. They'll rob you blind.[redface]

Good luck with that one.

I for one thank GOD (yup, I said it) these women are killing off their unborn. Less for me to have to support on welfare.

Come'on, get on board, abortion is GREAT!

I don't believe that I ever labeled you a DEMO. Which is why I said “before” you label me ;)

Hey Firefighter, you don't find this comment abrasive, mean spirited, or improper??
It appears to me that our good friend Herb is accusing anyone considering voting for McCain/Palin of not having common sense.
I'm not offended at all but I thought you might be.:)
I'm with ya but since I was chastised for my disagreement (or the way I disagreed) with some I thought I might ask him (the chastiser) if Herb's opinion should also receive his wrath. Since it does somewhat accuse others who he does not agree with in lacking good common sense. Doesn't exactly agree with the open minded discussion theory.
I could care less, I have fun with Herb all of the time.[laugh] Pot… I’d like to introduce you to the kettle. Wrath?… that is funny. Yes Herb’s comment could be abrasive to those that don’t share his ideas or beliefs. I personally disagree with his statement. Funny thing is… I agree with your comments a lot of the time I just have a problem with your delivery. Call it the “squeaky wheel gets the grease” syndrome if you like since you seem to be the most outspoken one of the bunch.
I tire of the condescending attitude, your “my facts are the only one’s that are correct”, and Democrats are somehow inferior Far more perfect than anything democRAT but still far from perfect.
I realize that politics can be a hotly debated subject but if you are trying to win over the independent voters… I’m not sure that the republican party would want you championing their cause.

For me it's a "I could care less" issue. Allow or ban abortion...I don't care either way.
Now for some it's not completely a one or the other. Some are ok with early term abortions and against late term or partial birth.
I'm definitely against partial birth.
I 100% agree with you on this issue. You took the words out of my mouth.



As an independent voter I have the luxury of being able to look from the outside in. I don’t vote down party lines and I personally don’t understand those that do. I have never understood single-issue voters (democrat or republican). Voting strictly for gun control or gun rights or over turning abortion or abortion rights are pretty much non-issues. Neither is going to happen as much as you may want it too. Those are hot button topics that both sides like (and are required to some extent) to focus on. The real issue is who is more qualified to lead our country for the next four years?

How John McCain and Barack Obama ended up the front-runners in this election is still beyond me but this is whom we have to choose from. So that said you have to look at the experience that each candidate has (life and political). When you do that I personally think the choice becomes much clearer. I'm not comfortable handing over the keys to the White House to a man that has little more experience in foreign affairs than I have. The stakes are too high for on the job training. I have voted Democrat in the last four elections but unless something unusual happens it will be Republican this election.

Britt

:)

unless something unusual happens it will be Republican this election.



Site back and wait, I'm sure there is MUCH more to come out of this.

Family values, family planning, raising children and moral judgments are something we all struggle with, dedicate ourselves to and do the best we can with. The last thing I want in government is someone trying to advance politically by forcing their own religious views on me. Pandering to the religious right at the expense of everyone else. Or forcing teachings on my children that haven't even worked with hers. I'm concerned that her idea of doing the peoples business means dividing the people further.

Palin is obviously very conservative and outspoken. She seems to play it right down the party line and has no problem throwing jabs at the other side. Since the Republicans are so abstinence only and anti sex education she should acknowledge that that system may not always work and that there may be other methods that are affective. She seems very inflexible so I'm not holding my breath.

With all due respect to be fair with your point of veiw we shouldn't have any sex ed in schools because the school is forcing it's view of sex ed and birth control down my childrens throat. What if I and my family were of a religion where we didn't believe in birth control of any kind, but my children have condoms and safe sex practices forced upon them in 5th grade. Is that fair.
I agree abstinence only doesn't usually work but I think you would have to agree that the other programs do not work either. As an example we have spent millions on aids education and condoms for African nations and it hasn't helped at all. We hand out condoms like cray in our inner city schools and it hasn't been efective either.
Kids are going to be kids. Or should I say humans are going to be human no amount of education is going to totally stop unwnated pregnancies or the spread of std's. I can't see where her daughter or any of our daughters being pregnant is a reflection on the parents in this day and age when everything they are exposed to is sexualized from tv to 16 magazine. Did you see the pics of Miley Cyrus?
I was raised with a Mom that was home everyday. We went to church every Sunday either with our parents or grandparents or both. We had the churches sex ed and the public schools sex ed neither stopped me from fooling around at 14. If anything it made it worse. As long as she was on birth control and I used a condom we were ok right?

If anything it made it worse. As long as she was on birth control and I used a condom we were ok right?

Hit the nail on the head. Any "unwanted" pregnancies? STDs?

All is well.

Tell me this, what would have stopped you?

Another thing, why is it that she is PRO Gun, ANTI- abortion? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that she would be against killing unborn babies, but for instruments that are able to kill fully grown humans........?

So should she also be anti steak knife, anti baseball bat, anti ink pen, etc, etc[laugh]. People were brutalizing other people long before the NRA or even the invention of black powder. Does anyone remember how Julius Ceasar was assassinated.
I do agree with you on being able to defend yourself. Every law abiding citizen should be able to defend their own life AND property. I don't know about everyone else but if someone is breaking in my house I don't really plan on asking them what their intentions are going to be after they get in. I don't really care if it is just to take my TV or to have his way with my family, he has overstepped his boundaries and I am not taking chances with my families safety.
I personally wish it hadn't come to the point that it has where you need a gun to defend yourself, but as long as the savages have them I will carry one also.

Hit the nail on the head. Any "unwanted" pregnancies? STDs?

All is well.

Tell me this, what would have stopped you?



I had a daughter when I was 20. Her mom was suposedly on bc. Anyway I wouldn't give her back then or now it wasn't her fault that me and her mom messed up.

What would have stopped me? Not being human and having hormones I supose.

My wife had our son when I was barely 18, finished out high school with a full time job, worked 2-10:30 to make it happen.

Doc, you've got me all wrong! I'm all about shooting people. Got a laser on my 9mm to take some of the guess work out. I say, if you want to be 100% sure I won't light you up, don't come in my house uninvited after dark!

I was just making a point about abortion.

Which is why I said “before” you label me ;)
I guess dyslexia (or something) dropped and "ed" at the end of label.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1084/1308831460_cd698b82b4.jpg


[laugh] Pot… I’d like to introduce you to the kettle. Wrath?… that is funny. Yes Herb’s comment could be abrasive to those that don’t share his ideas or beliefs.
See I "FEEL" that mine are no more abrasive. Just my opnion. ;)
I tire of the condescending attitude, your “my facts are the only one’s that are correct”, and Democrats are somehow inferior
I've looked back over many of my posts to get a perspective on your point and "To me" I don't see the condescending attitude from me accept for when similar attitudes have been placed towards me or conservatives in general.
I realize that politics can be a hotly debated subject but if you are trying to win over the independent voters…
Nah it's more of a tit-for-tat thing. they poke, I poke, they poke, I poke, before we know it we're both blind. :(


As an independent voter I have the luxury of being able to look from the outside in. I don’t vote down party lines and I personally don’t understand those that do. I have never understood single-issue voters (democrat or republican). Voting strictly for gun control or gun rights or over turning abortion or abortion rights are pretty much non-issues. Neither is going to happen as much as you may want it too. Those are hot button topics that both sides like (and are required to some extent) to focus on. The real issue is who is more qualified to lead our country for the next four years?
Well I am mostly an across the board Conservative (yea I know you're shocked :o ) The reason being is that the vast majority of liberals "SEEM" to think that increasing taxes cures all ails. Also the majority want to reduce our military. The military thing is my one major hot button.
I could be persuaded to vote Dem but I can only think of one scenario, (Ron Paul Versus Joe Lieberman).
How John McCain and Barack Obama ended up the front-runners in this election is still beyond me but this is whom we have to choose from.
I'm with ya there but that said I would rather "SETTLE" for Barrack than to end up with Hillary!! To me she has ZERO credibility, ZERO morals, and is clearly all about Hillary.

Britt

:)[/QUOTE]

My wife had our son when I was barely 18, finished out high school with a full time job, worked 2-10:30 to make it happen.

Doc, you've got me all wrong! I'm all about shooting people. Got a laser on my 9mm to take some of the guess work out. I say, if you want to be 100% sure I won't light you up, don't come in my house uninvited after dark!

I was just making a point about abortion.

Cool nothing personal. I kinda got on a rant and mixed you in with the other guy that didn't think it justifiable to protect personal property sorry to group you both together.

What a person does in their personal sexual life is None of the publics business.
I beleived it with Clinton and i beleive it with this family.

I can't phathom that anyone with just a bit of common sense can justify this lady as a good vp choice.

While a lot of the Rep talking points have a addressed the "executive experience" angle, I have a slightly take on it.

I'm personally not that impressed by "experience" as defined simply by the passage of time. I'm far more impressed by what a person's values are and whether they will exercise courage in their defense-- and what is the *quality* of that experience.

Reagan came to office with as much foreign policy experience as a Governor can have-- which is to say, basically none. Yet because he possessed moral clarity and moral courage, he was quite successful in the foreign policy arena, imo. Exhibit A would have to be the Cold War, but there was also Grenada, the decision to stay out of the Falklands issue, the decision to covertly arm the Afghans, the Nicaraguan counter-communism effort, etc.

Perhaps he was less successful in the budgetary restraint department, but then again we haven't had a semblance of budgetary restraint in so long it makes a person wonder if anyone in DC actually thinks that deficit spending is unsustainable.

It's no accident that the vast majority of Presidents in the last century have been Governors, not legislators. Being in that hot seat provides a proving ground legislators never experience, thus making governors a safer bet for executive competence, in general.

Personally, I'd be comfortable with Palin assuming the Presidency tomorrow.

Probably even moreso than McCain.

Personally, I'd be comfortable with Palin assuming the Presidency tomorrow.

Probably even moreso than McCain.Unfortunately or fortunately (however you look at it) I have to agree with you.

Britt

:)

[dummy][dummy] Just curious, do you guys spend a lot of time at casino's ? [dummy][dummy]

While a lot of the Rep talking points have a addressed the "executive experience" angle, I have a slightly take on it.

I'm personally not that impressed by "experience" as defined simply by the passage of time. I'm far more impressed by what a person's values are and whether they will exercise courage in their defense-- and what is the *quality* of that experience.

Reagan came to office with as much foreign policy experience as a Governor can have-- which is to say, basically none. Yet because he possessed moral clarity and moral courage, he was quite successful in the foreign policy arena, imo. Exhibit A would have to be the Cold War, but there was also Grenada, the decision to stay out of the Falklands issue, the decision to covertly arm the Afghans, the Nicaraguan counter-communism effort, etc.

Perhaps he was less successful in the budgetary restraint department, but then again we haven't had a semblance of budgetary restraint in so long it makes a person wonder if anyone in DC actually thinks that deficit spending is unsustainable.

It's no accident that the vast majority of Presidents in the last century have been Governors, not legislators. Being in that hot seat provides a proving ground legislators never experience, thus making governors a safer bet for executive competence, in general.

Personally, I'd be comfortable with Palin assuming the Presidency tomorrow.

Probably even moreso than McCain.

Good post, Justin.

Palin is the safest choice I see.

Palin is the safest choice I see.

Clearly the Republican ticket is the only Intelligent choice we have this year.

I still can not believe that the Dems could not come up with someone more qualified than Obama or Clinton to run......... I think it is a sad indicator of how lost the Democratic party has become as a whole.

[QUOTE=Diesel Doc;2198699]With all due respect to be fair with your point of veiw we shouldn't have any sex ed in schools because the school is forcing it's view of sex ed and birth control down my childrens throat. What if I and my family were of a religion where we didn't believe in birth control of any kind, but my children have condoms and safe sex practices forced upon them in 5th grade. Is that fair.




With all due respect to your views, I did not say anything about forcing sex ed on a 5th grader whose parents had a certain religious belief.

My kids do and have gone to public schools and I don't want a politician, who is trying for a certain voting block, to attempt to block knowledge about any health issues or biology issues or chemistry issues or re-productive issues or anything else.

There is a huge difference between sharing knowledge and forcing something on someone. I, for one, want my children prepared for the 21st century and not the 16th. If you choose to run your life and your childrens lives around religion, it might be better to send them to a religious school that prohibits sex ed. Then they can learn about sex with their boyfriend or girlfriend, behind your back, in the backseat of a car. You might also benefit from having them learn more about your religion and less about modern science. But please don't tell my kids that common health and sex knowledge is out of bounds. I will prepare them the best I can at home too, but I don't know everything. Just like I help them with math the best I can, but I don't know it all.

It never ceases to amaze me that in this modern age and with so many diseases floating around and with general agreement that un-wed teen pregnancy is bad and such an uproar about abortion, that there can be so much fear and embarrasment about sex ed. So much so, in fact, that presidential candidates are likely to flaunt their positions on the subject and actually win voters. Or that education can be labeled as promoting sex. Kids will be kids, we're all human. When I was 18 there was no way an abstinence lesson was going to keep me away from my girl friend. Education had nothing to do with it and we would have been far better off with more knowledge.

Sometimes it's uncomfortable dealing with issues, but the alternative can be way worse. The whole idea of education is to give someone the tools needed to be succesful in life. To go out in the world and make it better. To pass the torch. Without it we'd all be living in caves like a bunch of wild dogs. We have to move forward. We have to learn about our bodies and the world around us.

Clearly the Republican ticket is the only Intelligent choice we have this year.

I still can not believe that the Dems could not come up with someone more qualified than Obama or Clinton to run......... I think it is a sad indicator of how lost the Democratic party has become as a whole.

They're smarter than you think. They know there are too m any skeletons to be found.

Clearly the Republican ticket is the only Intelligent choice we have this year.

I still can not believe that the Dems could not come up with someone more qualified than Obama or Clinton to run......... I think it is a sad indicator of how lost the Democratic party has become as a whole.


Larry, correct me if my memory is failing me but do i remember a similar statement from you several years ago when you were supporting George Bush ?

We were right then and it has now been proven after 7 years of this administration. Why would you want to gamble with the same ones again ?

Larry, correct me if my memory is failing me but do i remember a similar statement from you several years ago when you were supporting George Bush ?

We were right then and it has now been proven after 7 years of this administration. Why would you want to gamble with the same ones again ?

Herb, I don't know why the Democrats refuse to put up a decent candidate, but it cost them the last election and it will cost them this time as well.

I refuse to believe that Obama and Hillary were the best your party has to offer, but if that is true then the Democratic Party is in serious trouble now and in the future.

Herb, I don't know why the Democrats refuse to put up a decent candidate, but it cost them the last election and it will cost them this time as well.

I refuse to believe that Obama and Hillary were the best your party has to offer, but if that is true then the Democratic Party is in serious trouble now and in the future.

Altho i do not agree with your assesmaent, I am still convinced Hillary should be our nominee, for the sake of your arguement I will agree that there may have been smarter people that the Dems could have ran
That said, with what the Republicans have put up to replace Bush, if I were a Republican i could not look anyone in the face and say you guys have put up the best your party had to offer.
If indeed you have, the Republican party is in worse trouble than the Dems.[coffee]

Herb, when the Dems run people like Hillary and Obama, a dead Elvis is a shoe in as a write in candidate compared to those two clowns [laugh]

I have to agree that character is the issue, and more important than just experience.

Character and confidence are what make great leaders.

It's also important for those leaders to reach out and recognize that hard inflexible positions can be very damaging. Character is the most important, then confidence tempered with an open mind.

Of course, a person's philosophy must match the will of the people. Otherwise all that character and confidence will be at odds with them. This is where the discussion of Palin starts. If someone agrees with her philosophy she's great. If not she's dangerous.

In the end, we all want the same things anyway. It's just about how we get there or who will move us in the right direction. We all want peace and security, a healthy family, freedom to live a good creative and fun life, financial security.

The vetting process we have to participate in and endure is always tedious in this country. But, in the end, works. Too bad it takes so much time and energy.

Herb, when the Dems run people like Hillary and Obama, a dead Elvis is a shoe in as a write in candidate compared to those two clowns [laugh]Herb and Lary.. I have to agree with both of your assessments. Neither party has put up the best candidate that they could have put up in my opinion. The thing is Herb, do you honesty put your faith and trust in Obama as the best choice for our nation at this point and time or are you just voting Democratic because that is what you have always done in the past and you are just looking for a change? The reason I ask this is because I have voted Democrat the last four elections but I can not in good conscious vote for someone with so little experience to run our country during these trying times. Yes I personally want change. Yes I personally can not stand the current President but those feelings aside, you have to look out for what is best for our country and I'm not sure Obama is it.

Britt

:)

Herb.

I have to agree. The Republicans must be very satisfied with the last eight years and the economy now to put up McCain and Palin as Bush replacements. Not just run them but actually get excited about it.

They are likely to be better than the current admin. But, it's generally more of the same. How much more of this can we take and keep saying that life is getting better?

Too bad we don't have a third choice!

All a person has to do is ignore the rhetoric on TV and study the Senate records of McCain and Obama to see who is best suited for the job of the leader of the free world.

It takes more than someone shouting the word "change" from the mountaintops to satisfy me. I look at the candidates qualifications and experience, then it is a no brainer.

Do I personally think McCain was the best choice for the Republican nomination?... No but the choice wasn't mine to make. I do however now have to fulfill my obligation as a US citizen and vote for the person best qualified for the job.

Ummmm Lary.... I'm not running in the US election this time.

Seriously enough. I stay away from political discussions at the best of times, however. When I see the two choices that you people have, I feel sorry for America. Not nice to say, but you are left making the choice known as the " lesser of two evils"

I do agree it is time for change. I also think that when the faces change, there is going to be a rather large mess to be cleaned up. This is before "change" can happen.

I hear a lot of people downing on Sarah Palin as the VP choice. I am simply going to say, that being a neighbour of the state of Alaska, she had one heck of a mess to clean up after Frank Murkowski. She and her crew have done a lot of things that some alaskans don't like, in the interest of the state. So far, decent overall job. She and her crew have also made some mistakes, as we all do.

As far as McCain being the best for the job of Pres. Not sure on that one. I also think the party could have done much better, but that is party politics. Party politics is something that I have never agreed with, but I am a bit of a throwback, to when you elected a person, place by place, not a "party" of the most popular choices. Anyway, I am getting off track here.

Obama is not the best choice, from what I have seen of him. People have compared him to JFK. Not so much. I think you guys would be in trouble if he were elected. Although it would be a pleasant surprise if he were elected, and proved me wrong.

Herb and Lary both have good points, and it will be interesting to see how this all washes out.

Clearly the Republican ticket is the only Intelligent choice we have this year.

I still can not believe that the Dems could not come up with someone more qualified than Obama or Clinton to run......... I think it is a sad indicator of how lost the Democratic party has become as a whole.

I'm saddened by it, a little bit. It seems that the disunity in the country is captured in microcosm format within the tribalism of the Democrats.

The only thing the various camps in the Democratic party have in common is that they hope their particular pet change issue gets addressed as the coattails of electing a Liberal. The various liberal tribes -- the LGBT, the feminists, the welfare advocates, the environmentalists, the abortionistas, the unions, the educrats-- they all don't much seem to like each other so much as they *hate* republicans.

Republicans have begun to emulate this to a limited extent at their own peril. I think there is still a little more consensus on the Right-- most of the pro-lifers are also in favor of strong defense, low taxes, etc.

I think the emphasis on diversity has cost us a national identity. We've been so focused on how we're different (and therefore "special") that we've forgotton how we're the same.

Indeed, how much of the leftist agenda revolves around some group being "special"? If you're poor enough, you are special enough to receive the largess stolen from your more prosperous countrymen. If you are gay, then you are special enough to get the privilege of same sex marriage that no one else enjoys (nor wants, but that's beside the point). If you're old enough, you're special enough that someone ELSE should be paying your medical bills and even giving you a stipend. If you're in love with mother earth, then you're extra special: we'll erode and, in some cases, destroy the freedoms of every American in the name of achieving your version of a green utopia.

Meanwhile, the conservatives seem to be just trying to live life without some busybody with a "there ought to be a law" obsession getting in the way of carving out their own American Dream.

With almost 38% of our eligible voting bloc no longer obliged to pay income taxes, our American system is very much in danger. What do you have when you get the 51% plundering from the 49%? I submit you have the end of the great American experiment.

So who will be the first to stand up and say that playing Robin Hood isn't a Constitutional function of gov't?

There seems to be no will to save our great land from the weaknesses of human nature.

As the saying goes-- "if you rob from Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul's vote"

jmo

Obama does not take care of his own family..What makes you think he will take care of yours..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html

I'm saddened by it, a little bit. It seems that the disunity in the country is captured in microcosm format within the tribalism of the Democrats.

The only thing the various camps in the Democratic party have in common is that they hope their particular pet change issue gets addressed as the coattails of electing a Liberal. The various liberal tribes -- the LGBT, the feminists, the welfare advocates, the environmentalists, the abortionistas, the unions, the educrats-- they all don't much seem to like each other so much as they *hate* republicans.

Republicans have begun to emulate this to a limited extent at their own peril. I think there is still a little more consensus on the Right-- most of the pro-lifers are also in favor of strong defense, low taxes, etc.

I think the emphasis on diversity has cost us a national identity. We've been so focused on how we're different (and therefore "special") that we've forgotton how we're the same.

Indeed, how much of the leftist agenda revolves around some group being "special"? If you're poor enough, you are special enough to receive the largess stolen from your more prosperous countrymen. If you are gay, then you are special enough to get the privilege of same sex marriage that no one else enjoys (nor wants, but that's beside the point). If you're old enough, you're special enough that someone ELSE should be paying your medical bills and even giving you a stipend. If you're in love with mother earth, then you're extra special: we'll erode and, in some cases, destroy the freedoms of every American in the name of achieving your version of a green utopia.

Meanwhile, the conservatives seem to be just trying to live life without some busybody with a "there ought to be a law" obsession getting in the way of carving out their own American Dream.

With almost 38% of our eligible voting bloc no longer obliged to pay income taxes, our American system is very much in danger. What do you have when you get the 51% plundering from the 49%? I submit you have the end of the great American experiment.

So who will be the first to stand up and say that playing Robin Hood isn't a Constitutional function of gov't?

There seems to be no will to save our great land from the weaknesses of human nature.

As the saying goes-- "if you rob from Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul's vote"

jmo

That was a very well thought out description of the state of this country and our populous!!
Thank you for that!!

With all due respect to your views, I did not say anything about forcing sex ed on a 5th grader whose parents had a certain religious belief.

My kids do and have gone to public schools and I don't want a politician, who is trying for a certain voting block, to attempt to block knowledge about any health issues or biology issues or chemistry issues or re-productive issues or anything else.

There is a huge difference between sharing knowledge and forcing something on someone. I, for one, want my children prepared for the 21st century and not the 16th. If you choose to run your life and your childrens lives around religion, it might be better to send them to a religious school that prohibits sex ed. Then they can learn about sex with their boyfriend or girlfriend, behind your back, in the backseat of a car. You might also benefit from having them learn more about your religion and less about modern science. But please don't tell my kids that common health and sex knowledge is out of bounds. I will prepare them the best I can at home too, but I don't know everything. Just like I help them with math the best I can, but I don't know it all.

Sometimes it's uncomfortable dealing with issues, but the alternative can be way worse. The whole idea of education is to give someone the tools needed to be succesful in life. To go out in the world and make it better. To pass the torch. Without it we'd all be living in caves like a bunch of wild dogs. We have to move forward. We have to learn about our bodies and the world around us.

I don't personally think their is anything wrong with sex ed I said that the public schools making it mandatory starting in 5th grade is wrong. Whatever your veiws you should have the right to opt out of their version and have the sit down with your kids yourself like my dad did with me and I will do with my kids. Some schools are even getting girls birth control without parental consent and now are teaching homosexual sex ed also. You can frown on religion all you want, but that isn't even the point I am trying to make.

Honestly the biggest problem I see now is that parents are no longer parents the leave their kids to the state to raise and then complain when something isn't the way they think it should be. Trust me I would send my kids to private school if I could. Maybe oneday someone would see the foley in the public school system and let me keep the tax dollars I pay for schools so I can send my children where I wish.

I'm saddened by it, a little bit. It seems that the disunity in the country is captured in microcosm format within the tribalism of the Democrats.

The only thing the various camps in the Democratic party have in common is that they hope their particular pet change issue gets addressed as the coattails of electing a Liberal. The various liberal tribes -- the LGBT, the feminists, the welfare advocates, the environmentalists, the abortionistas, the unions, the educrats-- they all don't much seem to like each other so much as they *hate* republicans.

Republicans have begun to emulate this to a limited extent at their own peril. I think there is still a little more consensus on the Right-- most of the pro-lifers are also in favor of strong defense, low taxes, etc.

I think the emphasis on diversity has cost us a national identity. We've been so focused on how we're different (and therefore "special") that we've forgotton how we're the same.

Indeed, how much of the leftist agenda revolves around some group being "special"? If you're poor enough, you are special enough to receive the largess stolen from your more prosperous countrymen. If you are gay, then you are special enough to get the privilege of same sex marriage that no one else enjoys (nor wants, but that's beside the point). If you're old enough, you're special enough that someone ELSE should be paying your medical bills and even giving you a stipend. If you're in love with mother earth, then you're extra special: we'll erode and, in some cases, destroy the freedoms of every American in the name of achieving your version of a green utopia.

Meanwhile, the conservatives seem to be just trying to live life without some busybody with a "there ought to be a law" obsession getting in the way of carving out their own American Dream.

With almost 38% of our eligible voting bloc no longer obliged to pay income taxes, our American system is very much in danger. What do you have when you get the 51% plundering from the 49%? I submit you have the end of the great American experiment.

So who will be the first to stand up and say that playing Robin Hood isn't a Constitutional function of gov't?

There seems to be no will to save our great land from the weaknesses of human nature.

As the saying goes-- "if you rob from Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul's vote"

jmo



That was a very well thought out description of the state of this country and our populous!!
Thank you for that!!



I agree!! :cool:

I nominate Justin Hohn for President in 2012!!![director]

..

But keep Palin on the ticket too. She can do two terms of VP with 2 different Prezs'.[coffee]

..

Herb, when the Dems run people like Hillary and Obama, a dead Elvis is a shoe in as a write in candidate compared to those two clowns [laugh]

This is the first e mail i opened this AM (pre-coffee). First thing that flashed in my mind when i read it was an Image of Mcpain laying in that shoe-box. [coffee]

This is the first e mail i opened this AM (pre-coffee). First thing that flashed in my mind when i read it was an Image of Mcpain laying in that shoe-box. [coffee]

Herb,

John McCain is a National Hero, and as a former Nam vet yourself, you should be aware that McCain spent years in a box suffering at the hands of his captors.

Sorry try as I may I can find nothing funny about your comment and I believe ANY American should be ashamed of making a comment like that. The man has done more for his country in a single day than you have in a lifetime by sticking to the values he shared with his other captive soldiers.

I can tell you as a Former POW myself, that had you made such a disgraceful comment like that in front of me, I would not have been capable of controlling my anger enough to keep from knocking you on your can.

I lost what little respect I had for you when you took such a childish and cheap shot at a true American Hero. I don't mind your differing opinion in Politics, in fact I spent 22 years defending your right to voice a different opinion.

But with the right to free speech comes the responsibility of using it in a mature fashion, not to make light of another persons pain and suffering, Especially when that person devoted his life to the country you say you love.

You sir have acted in a despicable manner and you should consider yourself lucky not to have been banned from this forum. Making fun of a POW and calling him "McPain" ....... What the heck were you thinking? Whats next? are you going to start telling us jokes about children with Autism? or perhaps maybe the Special Olympics?

[yuk]

Herb,

John McCain is a National Hero, and as a former Nam vet yourself, you should be aware that McCain spent years in a box suffering at the hands of his captors.

Sorry try as I may I can find nothing funny about your comment and I believe ANY American should be ashamed of making a comment like that. The man has done more for his country in a single day than you have in a lifetime by sticking to the values he shared with his other captive soldiers.

I can tell you as a Former POW myself, that had you made such a disgraceful comment like that in front of me, I would not have been capable of controlling my anger enough to keep from knocking you on your can.

I lost what little respect I had for you when you took such a childish and cheap shot at a true American Hero. I don't mind your differing opinion in Politics, in fact I spent 22 years defending your right to voice a different opinion.

But with the right to free speech comes the responsibility of using it in a mature fashion, not to make light of another persons pain and suffering, Especially when that person devoted his life to the country you say you love.

You sir have acted in a despicable manner and you should consider yourself lucky not to have been banned from this forum. Making fun of a POW and calling him "McPain" ....... What the heck were you thinking? Whats next? are you going to start telling us jokes about children with Autism? or perhaps maybe the Special Olympics?


[yuk]


Back up a little dude. You are drawing conclutions about my response that are completely unfounded. I meant NO disrespect for Mcain. My vison was brought on by his age and health problems he has had over the past few years.

As far as spelling of his name, I have never seen any comments made about anyones "misspelling" of other polititions on this forum.[coffee]

Back up a little dude. You are drawing conclutions about my response that are completely unfounded. I meant NO disrespect for Mcain. My vison was brought on by his age and health problems he has had over the past few years.

As far as spelling of his name, I have never seen any comments made about anyones "misspelling" of other polititions on this forum.[coffee]

You still do not get it, many of his health problems come from the lack of medical attention he received while being repeatedly beaten and thrown back into that box WITH NO MEDICAL TREATMENT. It is a wonder the man can tolerate the pain long enough to walk across the room.

How can you justify your comments knowing that to be true?

Mark my words. In 16 years or less, Palin will become the first female president.

Mark my words. In 16 years or less, Palin will become the first female president.

Ahhhh now dang it....I had my heart set on Condi :)

You still do not get it, many of his health problems come from the lack of medical attention he received while being repeatedly beaten and thrown back into that box WITH NO MEDICAL TREATMENT. It is a wonder the man can tolerate the pain long enough to walk across the room.

How can you justify your comments knowing that to be true?

Thank you! I cried last night listening to McCain, I can't even get my mind around what he or any other POW must have had to endure for our country. He is a true patriot, all politics aside. My whole adult life I have watched my own father suffer from mental anguish caused by the ugliness of war. Every time McCain raised his stiff shoulders to wave you could feel his pain.

I believe he knows what government is all about, to protect us from the enemy, not ourselves!

You are so right Larry if you are a TRUE AMERICAN you don't have to like or agree with MCCAIN but YOU dam sure need to HONOR AND RESPECT HIM FOR HIS PRIOR SERVICE TO THIS COUNTRY!!

Even if you do not agree with what he is and has been doing in politics at least he has been trying very hard to get things done the same as Sarah Palin.
I for sure do not see that in obama's record he has spent most of his time since being elected to congress running for president and i will give him credit he has gotten the nomination but other than that nothing for the people he was elected to serve. He is just another ME FIRST politician as Mccain pointed out last night !!!!

Herb,

John McCain is a National Hero, and as a former Nam vet yourself, you should be aware that McCain spent years in a box suffering at the hands of his captors.

Sorry try as I may I can find nothing funny about your comment and I believe ANY American should be ashamed of making a comment like that. The man has done more for his country in a single day than you have in a lifetime by sticking to the values he shared with his other captive soldiers.

I can tell you as a Former POW myself, that had you made such a disgraceful comment like that in front of me, I would not have been capable of controlling my anger enough to keep from knocking you on your can.

I lost what little respect I had for you when you took such a childish and cheap shot at a true American Hero. I don't mind your differing opinion in Politics, in fact I spent 22 years defending your right to voice a different opinion.

But with the right to free speech comes the responsibility of using it in a mature fashion, not to make light of another persons pain and suffering, Especially when that person devoted his life to the country you say you love.

You sir have acted in a despicable manner and you should consider yourself lucky not to have been banned from this forum. Making fun of a POW and calling him "McPain" ....... What the heck were you thinking? Whats next? are you going to start telling us jokes about children with Autism? or perhaps maybe the Special Olympics?

[yuk]

The hyprocracy of the conservatives just never ends. Just 4 short years ago, John Kerry was ridiculed by conservatives nation wide. The man did 2 tours in Nam and received a Purple Heart. He was swift boated by a bunch of lying scum bags. Nearly every conservative at the republican convention wore a band-aid over a purple heart mocking Kerry’s war injury. Did you speak out then?

I can’t begin to count all the times on this forum that I have seen people refer to Senator Obama as Sadam Hussein. Repectful? Get down down off your high horse Mr Ellis. The only thing that Herb did was refer to McCain as McPain. It’s more typical conservative antics. Try to guilt and shame someone into silence. Consider himself lucky to not have been banned from this forum? Really? Wouldn’t surprise me a bit.

Herb….he’s just trying to silence you. Speak you mind! It’s a free country. At least it used to be before the conservatives took over.

[QUOTE=speyguy;2199795]The hyprocracy of the conservatives just never ends. Just 4 short years ago, John Kerry was ridiculed by conservatives nation wide. The man did 2 tours in Nam and received a Purple Heart. He was swift boated by a bunch of lying scum bags. Nearly every conservative at the republican convention wore a band-aid over a purple heart mocking Kerry’s war injury. Did you speak out then?

Well said

As time has passed and the truth has come out, most, if not all of the "swift boats" accusations have been proven false.

From John Kerry: Candidate in the Making

"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

Not to make little of any time in a war zone but 3 months in theater with three wounds that many, many men didn't even pay atention if they were not looking for the magical 3 to get home.
Like I said I am not trying to make little of service in any warzone Many of us have been there done that, but comparing John ( Throw my medals away) Kerrry with what John McCain had to endure is apples and oranges. When McCain said "They Broke Me" that means they took every bit of will he had to live from him. And to be honest way too many men didn't come home for that very reason so please do not even put them in the same sentence or thought.


Read Carlos Hathcocks biography sometime. He went well above the call of duty and refused any decoration for it saying he was doing his job. He spent years in and out of hospitals fighting his wounds and fighting to stay in the Marine Corps, all for a incident he could have ran away from. He finally accepted decoration near the end of his life after years of other men petitioning for it.

The hyprocracy of the conservatives just never ends. Just 4 short years ago, John Kerry was ridiculed by conservatives nation wide. The man did 2 tours in Nam and received a Purple Heart. He was swift boated by a bunch of lying scum bags. Nearly every conservative at the republican convention wore a band-aid over a purple heart mocking Kerry’s war injury. Did you speak out then?
Those "Lying Scumbags" served with Kerry and gave THEIR accounts of his service. I guess since he's a DEM that his STORY is more valid than theirs??
What if he's the Lying scumbag and your support for him is misguided??
I can’t begin to count all the times on this forum that I have seen people refer to Senator Obama as Sadam Hussein.
Hmmm I can remember folks calling him "Barrack Hussein Obama" which BTW is his name. I don't believe I've seen anything referring to him as Saddam?

The only thing that Herb did was refer to McCain as McPain.
Actually his reference to McCain in a box was what angered Mr. Ellis the most.
If you had served as he and Herb has you should understand his point!!

Herb….he’s just trying to silence you. Speak you mind! It’s a free country. At least it used to be before the conservatives took over.
Yep you are free to say what you want and you are free to suffer the consequences from that "FREE SPEECH".
Mr. Ellis runs this board and has rules...you break em and you could find yourself spewing your hatred somewhere else.
Both being Viet Nam vets I'm sure they're working it out behind the scenes. It's probably best that you respect that!!

Kerry played up his involvement and reasons for the Purple Heart in an effort to gain credibility with the American public... this was verified and openly disputed by many of his fellow comrades-in-arms who were actually there !! Has nothing to do with his party affiliation ... it does however speak volumes of the man's character ... which is why he LOST !!!



McCain has NEVER asked for special consideration because of what he went through other than to be allowed to repay his country for getting him the heck out of the situation he was in !! What kind of intestinal fortitude would a man have to possess to take on such a task as becoming the Commander-In-Chief despite his age and health issues ?? Definately more than Obama and Hillary have got combined !!

Our country has gotten so stupid with who and what we would consider a "hero" and role model for our youth .... 2-Pac, Bono .... Hillary... are perfect examples of bass-ackward thinking... and comments like those from Herb and Speyguy back that up.

Add me to the list of people who lost any respect I had for you ....

PISTOL

I seem to remember something about john Kerry, throwing away his purple heart.

I respect anyone who joins the military. But to compare Kerry's record to McCain is nearing the ridiculous.

Let me get this straight.....it's OK for you to call Kerry's mates "scum bags", but not OK to call Osama Obama names? How about all of the names "King George" gets called.........is that good or bad?

NO! We do not want Herb banned!

Easy there boys! It's getting a little hot in here.

Time for a little break. Take a minute to cool off a bit. [whistle]




Ah................................that's better. :cool:

Add me to the list of people who lost any respect I had for you ....

PISTOL

I don't get this comment. Are you talking to Herb?

To set everything on an even keel--the only person i have to justify my comments to is myself. I know I meant NO ill toward McCain so if i am content with that , thats all that matters to me.

I have nothing but respect for McCain as a soldier, I have no use for his views as a politician.

Many if not the majority of the persons on this forum have no admiration or respect for Hillary or Obama, and many have expressed themselves openly of their feeling toward them. I often time cringe when i read some of the things that are said about them but as has been said many times. I served so that people could express themselves freely and i respect your right to do so.

Here you all go, beating down the democratic war veteran, but don’t talk about my republican war hero veteran …….

You guys can play the whole “my war hero is more significant than your war hero” game all you want. But you’re taking your eyes off the ball. The point was about having some common decent respect for those who have served. Period. And the example that I gave regarding last years GOP convention illustrates the hypocrisy of the right. No one on this thread that I recall has made any reference to McCain’s service record. The only thing done was to slant the name to McPain. But, it’s obvious that in the conservative world, only veterans associated with the re-pub-licken party are worthy of respect.

The hyprocracy of the conservatives just never ends. Just 4 short years ago, John Kerry was ridiculed by conservatives nation wide. The man did 2 tours in Nam and received a Purple Heart. He was swift boated by a bunch of lying scum bags. Nearly every conservative at the republican convention wore a band-aid over a purple heart mocking Kerry’s war injury. Did you speak out then?

I can’t begin to count all the times on this forum that I have seen people refer to Senator Obama as Sadam Hussein. Repectful? Get down down off your high horse Mr Ellis. The only thing that Herb did was refer to McCain as McPain. It’s more typical conservative antics. Try to guilt and shame someone into silence. Consider himself lucky to not have been banned from this forum? Really? Wouldn’t surprise me a bit.

Herb….he’s just trying to silence you. Speak you mind! It’s a free country. At least it used to be before the conservatives took over.

Again you run your mouth and make the stuff up as you go along, Herb called McCain "McPain" and put him in a box. Seeing as how he spent 5 years in a box for his country, that was the dumbest thing I have seen anyone ever say on this forum.

How much time did you give in service of this country and which branch did you serve in?

If I wanted to silence you or Herb I could do it in the blink of an eye. As I CLEARLY stated before, I don't care about your Politics, but I do care when you attack a true war hero in such a hateful and disgusting manner.

Insult his politics, tell us how much you hate the man...I don't care, but only a fool would make comments of that type about a man that suffered so horribly at the hands of the enemy.

If you are unable to distinguish the difference, then you may as well move along now yourself because you won't last long here.

Here you all go, beating down the democratic war veteran, but don’t talk about my republican war hero veteran …….

You guys can play the whole “my war hero is more significant than your war hero” game all you want. But you’re taking your eyes off the ball. The point was about having some common decent respect for those who have served. Period. And the example that I gave regarding last years GOP convention illustrates the hypocrisy of the right. No one on this thread that I recall has made any reference to McCain’s service record. The only thing done was to slant the name to McPain. But, it’s obvious that in the conservative world, only veterans associated with the re-pub-licken party are worthy of respect.

Just more banter from you because you are trying to help justify Herbs ridiculous comments.

Here you all go, beating down the democratic war veteran, but don’t talk about my republican war hero veteran …….

You guys can play the whole “my war hero is more significant than your war hero” game all you want. But you’re taking your eyes off the ball. The point was about having some common decent respect for those who have served. Period. And the example that I gave regarding last years GOP convention illustrates the hypocrisy of the right. No one on this thread that I recall has made any reference to McCain’s service record. The only thing done was to slant the name to McPain. But, it’s obvious that in the conservative world, only veterans associated with the re-pub-licken party are worthy of respect.


Ditto : A vet is a vet and their honorable service records as a soldier should be respected regardless of anyone's politics . Now if that same vet has a different slant on his political views than someone else , his politics are fair game if they are different than another persons.
Being a vet doesn't give him a free pass to have his political views go unchallenged by someone with different views

Just more banter from you because you are trying to help justify Herbs ridiculous comments.


Larry---You are trying to govern this forum because of your perception of what you think I was saying , even AFTER i came back and explained to you that you were reading something into what I had said incorrectly.
You are Dead wrong by passing judgements as such as "Herbs ridiculous comments" is over the edge and threatning to bann people because they are not supporting your way of thinking is out of line .

Ditto : A vet is a vet and their honorable service records as a soldier should be respected regardless of anyone's politics . Now if that same vet has a different slant on his political views than someone else , his politics are fair game if they are different than another persons.
Being a vet doesn't give him a free pass to have his political views go unchallenged by someone with different views

If for one second you believed what you just wrote, you would not have attacked McCain for his Pain and put him back in a Box.....You would have instead attacked his political views which I have NO problem with.

Larry---You are trying to govern this forum because of your perception of what you think I was saying , even AFTER i came back and explained to you that you were reading something into what I had said incorrectly.
You are Dead wrong by passing judgements as such as "Herbs ridiculous comments" is over the edge and threatning to bann people because they are not supporting your way of thinking is out of line .

Herb you can claim all day long that you didn't say what you did, but it is there for everyone to see in black and white. The only one dead wrong here is the person that made a mistake but isn't man enough to correct it.

You could have admitted you got carried away with your callous remarks in the heat of discussion and we would have been passed this immediately. instead you and speyguy just keep trying to spin it into my trying to stop you from having an opinion.

I have stated my point quite clearly, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR POLITICS, IT WASNT McCAINS POLITICS YOU ATTACKED. Time to man up if you can......

Noone cares whether someone agree's with or disagrees with either Obama or McCain on a political level ... that's what politics and this political forum is all about. Viewing and discussing the pro's & con's, likes & dislikes etc of the other persons stand is exactly what our system is known to be great for.

Noone should bash Kerry for his record ... provided the info was truthful and not being used BY HIM to gain notoriety in the political arena. That particular point is what makes this candidate better than that candidate.
I know that I would make the exact same statement if there were two democrat running for the office, both war veterans with this type of disparegy in the way they presented their service. Just kinda worked out that McCain is a Republican. I'd have stood the same ground if McCain was a democrat ... or if Obama was a war hero.

Vote for the man/woman .... not the party affiliation.

My previous comment regarding my loss of respect was directed at Herb for his bad form in refering to "McPain in a shoebox" and to Speyguy for drafting behind him on that train of thought.

Childish behavior.... "re-pub-licken" ... what are we 9 years old ?


PISTOL

Yet again, case and point for why talking politics here is a gay idea.

Yet again, case and point for why talking politics here is a gay idea.


Actually there are several threads going where guys are not having any problems making their views known without stooping to such extreme non political insults.

Some times a guy gets a little hot and out of hand but then they apologize for their behavior and move forward, not a big deal really because it is done within acceptable limits.

Then there are those that ONLY post for SHOCK value, they really could care less about the subject, it is all about trying to upset someone. These people are very easy to see, just look at their previous posts by going to their profile... you quickly see that a conversation, is the last thing they want ;)

Herb you can claim all day long that you didn't say what you did, but it is there for everyone to see in black and white. The only one dead wrong here is the person that made a mistake but isn't man enough to correct it.

You could have admitted you got carried away with your callous remarks in the heat of discussion and we would have been passed this immediately. instead you and speyguy just keep trying to spin it into my trying to stop you from having an opinion.

I have stated my point quite clearly, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR POLITICS, IT WASNT McCAINS POLITICS YOU ATTACKED. Time to man up if you can......

My remarks were not calloues nor intended to be disrespectful----i went back and read again what i posted

My remarks were to your comment

"Originally Posted by Lary Ellis (Top)
Herb, when the Dems run people like Hillary and Obama, a dead Elvis is a shoe in as a write in candidate compared to those two clowns

certainly not as disrespectfull as were your towards Obahma Hillary or Elvis

and after going back and rereading i wonder what your response might have been had i or someone else on this forum suggested "I would not have been capable of controlling my anger enough to keep from knocking you on your can."

My remarks were not calloues nor intended to be disrespectful----i went back and read again what i posted

My remarks were to your comment

"Originally Posted by Lary Ellis (Top)
Herb, when the Dems run people like Hillary and Obama, a dead Elvis is a shoe in as a write in candidate compared to those two clowns

certainly not as disrespectfull as were your towards Obahma Hillary or Elvis

and after going back and rereading i wonder what your response might have been had i or someone else on this forum suggested "I would not have been capable of controlling my anger enough to keep from knocking you on your can."

This is simple stuff Herb, I called those people Clowns, you can call McCain a Clown all day long and nobody will care even a little bit. However, make fun of the pain he endured in a box at the hands of the enemy and you are WAY out of line. He didn't ask to be tortured by his captors or to be in that hell hole in the first place, he was doing his duty and honorably I might add.

As to my comment about knocking you on your can, I did not insult you, I told you the truth and I know for a fact that there are millions of COMBAT soldiers like myself that would do the same if you said it out loud in front of them. Democrat, Republican, Independent it makes no never mind.

I am not going to continue to argue this point with you, you said it, I know it and everybody here knows it, you are the one that has to live with it.

This is the first e mail i opened this AM (pre-coffee). First thing that flashed in my mind when i read it was an Image of Mcpain laying in that shoe-box. [coffee]

Hey, Herb... not to have 2 mods on you here, cause that's not what it is...

I totally disagree with the majority of your politicial standpoints. You have your opinions, I have mine. Whatever. That is neither here nor there.

I think that making light of the suffering of veterans that have been tortured is a low thing to say.

I do not personally know if this was your intent, however, that is my perception of it.

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184086

OK, OK, OK, now to try something completely different.[deadhors]
I received this video of Jon Stewart comparing complete trunarounds by some Republican figures. Karl Rove talking how one of the potential (before he made his actual choice) VP picks of Obama would be so unqualified, later talking how Sarah Pailen is so qualified.

Bill O'Reilly talking on the open air how rotten and out of control from her parents Britteny Spear's sister must be by getting pregnant at 16. Later talking how wrong it is to invade the family of SP and her daughter.

I will admit I am no fan of Jon Stewart, I don't listen to him, I rarely find his humor good, HOWEVER this is interesting to listen to. You will just have to bite the bullet and stomach him.
If nothing else, this may move this thread in another direction.
Hope this link works.

Link didn't work, maybe this one will
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card&byDate=true

Sort of a waste of time when arguing with a republican though, they won't click a link that proves what is true. Once in a message board argument with several neocons I provided a link to prove a point. I could tell by the responses none read it. To prove my point further provided another link, this time to a porn site. Considering none complained I'm sure none clicked it.

Have to try and let the Pubs slide a little bit----they have been inflicted with a lot of pain over the past 7 years. The saddest part is their lack of ability to see the damage their party has done to this country (or to be able to admit it to themselves).
It really wouldn't surprise me if many of them voted Democrat when they go to the voting booth this time while verbally professing the magnifent job the Repubs have been doing.
It is hard to imagine that the majority of the Bush supporters would go for another dose of the past.

Last I checked Bush's name isn't on the ballot this time ( and in all fairness niether is Clinton's). Pick the canidate that is most qualified, not based on the sins of thier predecessor.

Last I checked Bush's name isn't on the ballot this time ( and in all fairness niether is Clinton's). Pick the canidate that is most qualified, not based on the sins of thier predecessor.I have to agree with you. Very well put.

Britt

:)

I have to agree with you. Very well put.

Britt

:)

Be sure to look at who is going to be placed in their team----it appears Mcain is taking a lot of the Bush policy makers along with him

Obama appears to have several of the Clinton advisors behind him

Obama appears to have several of the Clinton advisors behind him
All the more reason NOT to vote for Obama!!

Some on here seem to be blaming Bush for the current position of this country. If I remember correctly, Nancy Pelosi stated that when her party took control of congress several years back, everything would change. I certainly don't think it has changed for the better! It seems to me that there is plenty of blame to go around! I think it is time for some new faces in washington. Lets start with Palin!!!!!!!!!

All the more reason NOT to vote for Obama!!


In your opinion---everyones got one [coffee]

Some on here seem to be blaming Bush for the current position of this country. If I remember correctly, Nancy Pelosi stated that when her party took control of congress several years back, everything would change. I certainly don't think it has changed for the better! It seems to me that there is plenty of blame to go around! I think it is time for some new faces in washington. Lets start with Palin!!!!!!!!!

I am in agreement here.
One party calls the problems as Bushes, but he doesn't introduce the spending bills, ALL of congress does this.
They have fooled us voters for decades.

I am in agreement here.
One party calls the problems as Bushes, but he doesn't introduce the spending bills, ALL of congress does this.
They have fooled us voters for decades.


They had the majority vote for most of his terms-veto power and ability to control congress and the senate was his

One party calls the problems as Bushes, but he doesn't introduce the spending bills, ALL of congress does this.Bush sure couldn't find his veto pen until the Demos took over.
With slim majority in the Senate, a even draw if you call Lieberman what he really is, it's been impossible for the Demo congress to pass anything. The Republicans in the Senate have blocked a record amount of bills in the last two years.

They had the majority vote for most of his terms-veto power and ability to control congress and the senate was his

I ask you Herb...Did Clinton not veto the energy bill put before him?
Did the Dems not filibuster an energy bill that would have allowed drilling in ANWR??
Did Pelosi not allow a vote in congress for an energy bill that would have let us drill offshore and then take a 5 week vacation?
Spin it any way you want but high fuel prices are effecting our economy and the DEMs have stopped 3 energy bills in a row that would have lowered fuel prices!!
There's no way around it!!

The Republicans in the Senate have blocked a record amount of bills in the last two years.
Really????
How many and what were they for??

Really????
How many and what were they for??
Looks like 62 bills.
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/z_historic/tba05/block-and-blame.pdf
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68962





Today, the filibuster is used by the Republicans as a routine measure on virtually every bill and it is used on bills where there is a Republican consensus as a tactic to just slow things down. As stated by Norm Ornstein, a congressional expert with the American Enterprise Institute; "The continuous use of the filibuster is sending Congress' approval rating down into the sewer, but it is also sending each of the Republican Senators even further into the sewer."

Among the recent pieces of legislation that have been blocked, they included bills that would have amended the 1964 Civil Rights Act to allow all US employees to file charges of worker's pay discrimination; they blocked an expanded economic stimulus package and a slew of Iraq troop withdrawal measures.

The GOP's current standard-bearer, John McCain, has been in the midst of several of these efforts. He voted against ending the debate on a bill that would have raised the minimum wage. The "War Hero McCain", also up held the blockage of an amendment that would have standardized the amount of time for troops to serve in Iraq and he voted to hold up legislation that would have restored Habeas Corpus rights to military detainees under U.S. detention.

On the whole, however, McCain has been more absent than active in recent Senate affairs, having missed more than 350 votes (60.5%) during the current Congress. (This is also an all-time record for a Senator not-voting.)

Looks like 62 bills.
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/z_historic/tba05/block-and-blame.pdf
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68962





Today, the filibuster is used by the Republicans as a routine measure on virtually every bill and it is used on bills where there is a Republican consensus as a tactic to just slow things down. As stated by Norm Ornstein, a congressional expert with the American Enterprise Institute; "The continuous use of the filibuster is sending Congress' approval rating down into the sewer, but it is also sending each of the Republican Senators even further into the sewer."

Among the recent pieces of legislation that have been blocked, they included bills that would have amended the 1964 Civil Rights Act to allow all US employees to file charges of worker's pay discrimination; they blocked an expanded economic stimulus package and a slew of Iraq troop withdrawal measures.

The GOP's current standard-bearer, John McCain, has been in the midst of several of these efforts. He voted against ending the debate on a bill that would have raised the minimum wage. The "War Hero McCain", also up held the blockage of an amendment that would have standardized the amount of time for troops to serve in Iraq and he voted to hold up legislation that would have restored Habeas Corpus rights to military detainees under U.S. detention.

On the whole, however, McCain has been more absent than active in recent Senate affairs, having missed more than 350 votes (60.5%) during the current Congress. (This is also an all-time record for a Senator not-voting.)



That will slow em down for a short while while they get there "spin" machined brains around all that info.

That will slow em down for a short while while they get there "spin" machined brains around all that info.


Got me to laugh I have seen more spin from you than a whammo Top.

Looks like 62 bills.
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/z_historic/tba05/block-and-blame.pdf
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68962





Today, the filibuster is used by the Republicans as a routine measure on virtually every bill and it is used on bills where there is a Republican consensus as a tactic to just slow things down. As stated by Norm Ornstein, a congressional expert with the American Enterprise Institute; "The continuous use of the filibuster is sending Congress' approval rating down into the sewer, but it is also sending each of the Republican Senators even further into the sewer."

Among the recent pieces of legislation that have been blocked, they included bills that would have amended the 1964 Civil Rights Act to allow all US employees to file charges of worker's pay discrimination; they blocked an expanded economic stimulus package and a slew of Iraq troop withdrawal measures.

The GOP's current standard-bearer, John McCain, has been in the midst of several of these efforts. He voted against ending the debate on a bill that would have raised the minimum wage. The "War Hero McCain", also up held the blockage of an amendment that would have standardized the amount of time for troops to serve in Iraq and he voted to hold up legislation that would have restored Habeas Corpus rights to military detainees under U.S. detention.

On the whole, however, McCain has been more absent than active in recent Senate affairs, having missed more than 350 votes (60.5%) during the current Congress. (This is also an all-time record for a Senator not-voting.)



And Obama has missed 77%!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, we are all in agreement, EVERY one of them are bad for the tax payers!!!!

Looks like 62 bills.
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/z_historic/tba05/block-and-blame.pdf
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68962





Today, the filibuster is used by the Republicans as a routine measure on virtually every bill and it is used on bills where there is a Republican consensus as a tactic to just slow things down. As stated by Norm Ornstein, a congressional expert with the American Enterprise Institute; "The continuous use of the filibuster is sending Congress' approval rating down into the sewer, but it is also sending each of the Republican Senators even further into the sewer."

Among the recent pieces of legislation that have been blocked, they included bills that would have amended the 1964 Civil Rights Act to allow all US employees to file charges of worker's pay discrimination; they blocked an expanded economic stimulus package and a slew of Iraq troop withdrawal measures.

The GOP's current standard-bearer, John McCain, has been in the midst of several of these efforts. He voted against ending the debate on a bill that would have raised the minimum wage. The "War Hero McCain", also up held the blockage of an amendment that would have standardized the amount of time for troops to serve in Iraq and he voted to hold up legislation that would have restored Habeas Corpus rights to military detainees under U.S. detention.



And in the 6 years before that the dems didn't filibuster anything? I seem to remember them filibustering every little thing that came along. They didn't even have the decency to alow up and down votes on judges so that they could get along with their lives. Yea or nea it would be that simple. You can't honestly say the endless filabuster is a new GOP thing. In the last 8-12 years Congress han't acomplished anything the far left PETA and Earth Liberation Front types have taken over the democratic party and the GOP has lost all of it's backbone. No member of congress will do anything that may jepardize his chances of getting re elected. Until term limits are put in place and 30+ year career politicians are sent home nothing will get done. I supose it is just easier to blame it on this president or that president when most of the problem lies farther down the hill.

The day that prisoners of war get Habeas Corpus rights under our constitution will be a sad day indeed.

Well maybe I am just bitter. I should go read my Bible and clean some of my guns.

The dems here are trying to justify electing a guy who simply has no experience qualifying him for Pres. Biden didn't help the ticket either. Before its over, good ol' Joe will stick his foot in his mouth and BO will have to perform damage control.

BO is probably a good guy but he needs more than a good speech to make up for the experience he lacks. That's not even me saying it, listen to what Hillery and Biden had to say:

Biden: December 11, 2007: “If Iowans believe campaign funds and celebrity will fix the debacle in Iraq, put the economy on track, and provide health care and education for America’s children, they should support another candidate,” said Biden for President Campaign Manager Luis Navarro. “But I’m confident that Iowans know what I know: our problems will require experience and leadership from Day One. Empty slogans will be no match for proven action on caucus night.”

Clinton: "So you decide which makes more sense: Entrust our country to someone who is ready on day one ... or to put America in the hands of someone with little national or international experience, who started running for president the day he arrived in the U.S. Senate," Clinton said.

Undeniable: His own party doesn't think he's got what it takes. :o

I have yet to hear from the republicans or democrats that John McCain doesn't have the experience to be President.

The dems here are trying to justify electing a guy who simply has no experience qualifying him for Pres. Biden didn't help the ticket either. Before its over, good ol' Joe will stick his foot in his mouth and BO will have to perform damage control.

BO is probably a good guy but he needs more than a good speech to make up for the experience he lacks. That's not even me saying it, listen to what Hillery and Biden had to say:

Biden: December 11, 2007: “If Iowans believe campaign funds and celebrity will fix the debacle in Iraq, put the economy on track, and provide health care and education for America’s children, they should support another candidate,” said Biden for President Campaign Manager Luis Navarro. “But I’m confident that Iowans know what I know: our problems will require experience and leadership from Day One. Empty slogans will be no match for proven action on caucus night.”

Clinton: "So you decide which makes more sense: Entrust our country to someone who is ready on day one ... or to put America in the hands of someone with little national or international experience, who started running for president the day he arrived in the U.S. Senate," Clinton said.

Undeniable: His own party doesn't think he's got what it takes. :o

I have yet to hear from the republicans or democrats that John McCain doesn't have the experience to be President.

[laugh][laugh]I love it!! Only in politics..."anything you say may...no...will be used against you".

Great post... truth with no spin... only facts quoted there!

up until this point i have not been a registered voter. but when this election comes I can assure you that I will be because I know who I do NOT wont to run this country

Biden: December 11, 2007: “If Iowans believe campaign funds and celebrity will fix the debacle in Iraq, put the economy on track, and provide health care and education for America’s children, they should support another candidate,” said Biden for President Campaign Manager Luis Navarro. “But I’m confident that Iowans know what I know: our problems will require experience and leadership from Day One. Empty slogans will be no match for proven action on caucus night.”

Clinton: "So you decide which makes more sense: Entrust our country to someone who is ready on day one ... or to put America in the hands of someone with little national or international experience, who started running for president the day he arrived in the U.S. Senate," Clinton said.

Undeniable: His own party doesn't think he's got what it takes. :o

I have yet to hear from the republicans or democrats that John McCain doesn't have the experience to be President.[/QUOTE]

OOOOPPSSSSS I hit the "submit" button too soon.

Concerning the quotes above, sure they are there, no doubt, but they were also said during the campaign. You can find just as many disparaging quotes from the Republican candidates talking about McCain during that time. Both parties shoot each other during the campaign process, providing lots of fodder to others. To take those quotes as reality is absurd.

McCain experience: No you will not hear other Republicans dissing him over that, especially after what, 150 years in the senate. You will hear them talking about other issues though.

Sort of a waste of time when arguing with a republican though, they won't click a link that proves what is true. Once in a message board argument with several neocons I provided a link to prove a point. I could tell by the responses none read it. To prove my point further provided another link, this time to a porn site. Considering none complained I'm sure none clicked it.

Hmmm....brings to mind something about a "pot" and a "kettle". :rolleyes:

OOOOPPSSSSS I hit the "submit" button too soon.

Concerning the quotes above, sure they are there, no doubt, but they were also said during the campaign. You can find just as many disparaging quotes from the Republican candidates talking about McCain during that time. Both parties shoot each other during the campaign process, providing lots of fodder to others. To take those quotes as reality is absurd.

McCain experience: No you will not hear other Republicans dissing him over that, especially after what, 150 years in the senate. You will hear them talking about other issues though.

Exactly the point. You are right on about what's being said out there but none are saying McCain isn't qualified. Think about it, you and I really don't know that much about these folks, except for the spin the media puts on things, speechs they make, or interviews of some kind. That's where comments like Biden and Clinton made really hit home. If they don't value his experience why should I?

As a conservative, McCain is not my first pick. Actually I probably agree somewhat more with Biden on the social issues of the campaign. Regardless of his politics, he is a man of strong faith. With that said, McCain is by far the most experienced and informed candidate in all other areas. The biggest risk with any of them is, will they really change Washington and work to restore our nation as one, of the people, by the people, and for the people. Time will tell.

Looks like 62 bills.
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/z_historic/tba05/block-and-blame.pdf
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68962





Today, the filibuster is used by the Republicans as a routine measure on virtually every bill and it is used on bills where there is a Republican consensus as a tactic to just slow things down. As stated by Norm Ornstein, a congressional expert with the American Enterprise Institute; "The continuous use of the filibuster is sending Congress' approval rating down into the sewer, but it is also sending each of the Republican Senators even further into the sewer."

Among the recent pieces of legislation that have been blocked, they included bills that would have amended the 1964 Civil Rights Act to allow all US employees to file charges of worker's pay discrimination; they blocked an expanded economic stimulus package and a slew of Iraq troop withdrawal measures.

The GOP's current standard-bearer, John McCain, has been in the midst of several of these efforts. He voted against ending the debate on a bill that would have raised the minimum wage. The "War Hero McCain", also up held the blockage of an amendment that would have standardized the amount of time for troops to serve in Iraq and he voted to hold up legislation that would have restored Habeas Corpus rights to military detainees under U.S. detention.

On the whole, however, McCain has been more absent than active in recent Senate affairs, having missed more than 350 votes (60.5%) during the current Congress. (This is also an all-time record for a Senator not-voting.)



OK, let's be forthright here. The Republicans fillibustered. This may be something I applaud.

We have some statements completely lacking context. So a bill might raise the minimum wage, and JM tries to stop (showing he actually DOES understand economics!)-- but WHAT ELSE WAS IN THAT BILL?

How many dozens or hundreds of earmarks and "Christmas-tree" amendments were hanging on these bills?

So a bill comes up that, if enacted, would:
1) raise the minimum wage
2) extend unemployment benefits
3) De-fund the "bridge to nowhere"
4) mandated federal funding of abortion
5) Severely restricted private firearms ownership

Now, most Repulicans would vote this bill down, if for no other reason than item #5 (and probably #4).

But, in doing so, they allow their opponents now to claim that "this Republican tried to stop a bill that would have killed the "bridge to nowhere." Factually, this is a true statement.

But it's an insult to the intelligence to think that a politician would support that bridge intentionally, rather than address the immediately pressing concerns of #4 and #5 while trying to kill off the bridge with a separate piece of legislation at a later point.

Of course, the Republican in question would now have to answer to his conservative constituents why he voted to increase the minimum wage and spend billions more tax dollars in federal unemployment.


This is the kind of shameful political maneuvering that is de rigeur for Congress (on BOTH sides) and also why Congress is about the only gov't function with less popular support than the current POTUS.

The kinds of rules that allow these things to occur are drafted in the House Ways and Means committee, and the Senate Rules Committee. That's why these committtees are considered to be among the most powerful in their respective bodies, along with the Budget/finance committees.

A simple way to eliminate some of this absurd behavior is the make the Speaker of the House a nationally-elected office that would run just like the President and VP do.

As it is right now, the Speaker only has to answer to the party leadership, and their respective home district. Our current Speaker is the most liberal ever (hailing from that bastion of conservatism, San Fransisco -- led by its mayor Gavin Newsom of marry-the-gays-even-if-its-breaking-the-law fame). She answers only to leftists from SF and to a party she has significant control of.

She controls a significant portion of the gov't.

What do most of these posts have to do with Palin??

Stay on topic or start another one.

What do most of these posts have to do with Palin??

Stay on topic or start another one.



Andy, they did hijack this thread. [dummy]

But I feel honored to have started a 239 post thread...[laugh]

..

Andy, they did hijack this thread. [dummy]

But I feel honored to have started a 239 post thread...[laugh]

..

You mean you though a political thread would stay on topic???[laugh][laugh]