motovate

New to forum - found it today - looks like a real good place for information. I've been looking through it and absorbing some of it.

Here is the deal - I'm convinced I need to get a Dodge Cummings 4x4 3/4 or 1 T. I'm driving 100+ miles this Friday to play lets make a deal and hopefully buy one. It is a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Flat bed - turbo, 6 speed manual, I think it has all the stuff, cruise, air, 2 Door , Power everything. On line Photos look good - used car dealer has had it for awhile, 150,000 miles - ad said it was used to haul 5th wheel horse trailers. Asking price is 16,777 in the add. I won't know if it was farm use until I get there but there a lot of "Gentleman ranches in Arizona". I suspect that was the use.

I plan on using it to haul 35' RV, car trailer loaded, boat, etc from Oregon to Arizona, multiple trips since I have a bunch of iron stored still in Oregon. One trip will have a Geo tracker on the FB and tow a 30 Airstream converted to storage - I would guess the trailer will be at it's max - 7000 or 8000 lbs anyway.

Reading this forum it looks like fuel pumps are a problem. I think lift pumps are basically electric fuel pumps bringing fuel from the tank and VPN's are the injector pumps and fuel pressure is critical. Am I correct???????

What should I look for when checking out the truck. How do I check codes and determine what they mean if they are there. How can I tell if it is worth the cost and what sounds like probable repairs. How can I tell if the VPN has been changed out???? I'm not new to trucks but am new to Diesels. Lots of Automatics are available but I think I am better off towing with a manual - any thoughts?

Anything you all can toss my way will help - Thanks.

LBM
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SkyKing56

Hi Motovate
Welcome to the list, and welcome to the world of oil burners! We have a clothing store here in the Northeast who's advertisement says- "an educated consumer is our best customer" . I would go one step further and say "an educated consumer is a car dealer's worst nightmare". Imagine unlocking the secrets hidden inside the truck's computer right in front of the salesman. A lot of times the CEL (check engine light) does not appear when a code issue occurs. You can download a list of engine codes here from DTR and bring it with you to the dealer. Once there, you can use the 3 - key method to retrieve any stored codes- turn the key on and off 3 times (without starting the engine) , the third time leave the key on. Have a pen and paper ready, and look in the odometer for the codes to flash. The PO216 is the dreaded "DEAD IP" code. If this or any other serious codes appear, you have a fair warning that big $$$ may be required to fix the truck. You can use this information as a negotiating tool- make a substantially reduced offer,(hint- A new VP installed can run as high as $2000) or have the dealer agree to fix the problems that the code reflects, or just walk away knowing you dodged a bullet. You can get the truck's history through CarFax, worth the investment. This may show any warranty repairs the truck has incurred. Good luck with the Dodge,and if you want to stay on the good side of list members, remember that Cummins does not have a 'g' at the end.

CTDPower11

haha... I love the new stickers SkyKing56!!!

SkyKing56

Thanks
Ive had more than one P-O-ed Hemi-head zoom past me in disgust. Then they see that big ol' 5" puffer sticking out the back, and they pout all day. Wah wah!
I just got some new stickers in the mail today- its the classic Ford oval logo, only its spelled
"Fuct". One is for my friend who has an 89 F350 with the old International 7.3 in it. He is my main diesel wrench and loves to work on my "short bus" as he calls it. I keep telling him to get out of the dark side and buy a Dodge.

CTDPower11

haha...thats nice!!!

turbomike

Try to check for the '53' block, some of them crack. Drive it to check the steering, the ball joints wear out bad. Check the air conditioner if you can, there is something under the dashboard that can start leaking the refrigerant out. Can't think of anything else right now. Good luck in your search.

motovate

Thanks and that's Cummins, Cummins, Cummins....!!!!!

Did the $$$16,777 sound about right for price????? Any thoughts about towing with Automatics vs 6 speed manuals??? Is there a real trick to replacing the VP-??? fuel injector pump???? Is it a must be done by a Dealer or a Diesel shop - special tools required???? How can I tell if it has been replaced - different paint color????? is there only 1 mfg for the correct pump - dealer item??? Can it be sent in and rebuilt to save $ or is it a rebuilt with a core exchange?????

Any other regular trouble areas to look for? Are the 6 speeds pretty solid - seems like there might be a lube issue??

Thanks - LBM

motovate

Thanks - How can I tell if it is a "53" Block - is it in the Vin? Can the cracks be seen from the outside of the engine - weeping oil????

LBM

PaulDaisy

Take a look if the truck already has gauges installed. If yes. look for fuel pressure gauge. It should read at least 15 psi idling and no less than 5 during aggressive acceleration. If not gauge, try to bump the starter but not start the engine, and leave the key in On position, and listen. The lift pump will run under the hood on the driver side, you should hear it. If you don't pop the hood and look behind the fuel filter: is there a pump there? If yes, chances are its dead and the injection pump may soon follow. If there is a piece of aluminum there, you have a lift pump in the tank or on the frame under the bed. Look for that; if there's one on the frame and looks BIG, it is probably a FASS and you're lucky.
If the factory lift pump runs, you are Ok in that department.
I would take a 6 speed over automatic any day and pay extra, too, myself just to stay away from an auto... not that they are real bad but the manual just seems more robust.
The 53 block: look on the forward left side of the block, under the left fender under the wiring harness. "53" would be cast in 1" tall letters. I think I read that 01s don't have 53 blocks but I am not totally sure.
If it is a 53, it is not necesserily bad but look for seepage of coolant along the block. You can find pictures here:
http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/read.php?id=185
For the price, it is not unreasonable but I'd try to talk him down starting at 15k, myself. 150k miles is a bit high for $16.7k in my opinion, unless the truck is impeckable otherwise.
-P

SkyKing56

"I would take a 6 speed over automatic any day"
Same here, a 6 speed designates that the engine is an HO (high output). As far as whether the VP has been changed, I would almost guess so since the truck has 150K.The CarFax may show it has been replaced under warranty. Use the search feature here on DTR and find posts on LP and VP replacement- the LP (lift pump) is the Achilles heel on these trucks, a faulty LP will starve the VP (fuel injection pump) and cause early failure. So if you buy the truck, immediatley install a fuel pressure gauge to monitor your fuel pressure (gauge- $100 VP- $2000) Try PaulDaisy's suggestions- look and see if the stock lift pump is still on the left side of the engine or if its gone, which means you may have a warranty replaced LP and VP, with the LP now in the fuel tank. These are also faulty, so the best set-up is a stock or Holley Blue or FASS LP relocated to the frame next to the tank, (see my truck specs below) Kits are available here and on ebay.

motovate

Thanks - I've looked some more and still more questions. FASS??? Looks like they have 2 filters and a fuel pump?? One for particles and one for water????

Also what is the difference between STD and HO. Spec I've found show a little more Horsepower and a little more Torque but not a lot more??? Is it a heavier duty motor???? Looks like I can make more HP and torque just by changing the exhaust then the difference in specs????? If you believe the adds!!

If the stock lift pump is still in place and the fuel pressure Gage shows 15psi and it seems to run OK will I benefit from putting on an external pump - Holly, FASS, Summit by the tank - just in case??? Wondering if that would overpower the stock lift pump and create a problem I don't have. Maybe bypass the stock pump - leaving it on as a back up would be better? I'd pay a couple hundred now to save 2 grand later - just in case????

Did the 24 valve come stock with an electric LP and the 12 valves Cummins come stock with mechanical LP's? I saw on Ebay a mechanical pump but it didn't say how old a block it fit?

With the switch in fuel looks like maybe adding Marvel Mystery oil or something at fill up would be wise any idea how much --- 1 ounce or 1 qt??

Thanks again.

LBM

PaulDaisy

I suppose the advice applies to figuring out whether to buy it or not (or, rather, how much to play the price down, since it is probably worth it anyway). After you've got it, think of what you want to do with it. I myself am thinking about lift pump option. The Walbro seems to be the choice for reliability but the kit bypass valve seems too high pressure. I have read reports here where people say VP failed right after this or that fuel mod, then blame it on the dying stock LP. I wonder. Maybe the high pressure of aftermarket LP stresses IP too much? I don't know. I may buy a pump separately and put my own 17 psi bypass.
Anyway, good luck with choosing! Looking forward to seeing a Cummins in your signature.
Cheers,
-P

Junk Man

As far as price, go ask a bank what the loan value is. That's where you want to start. Banks don't take risk & dealers don't fall in love with a truck.