LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
11-05-2003, 05:58 PM
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LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
I have been entertaining the idea of the F.A.S.S System for my truck every since I heard about it. A few things I want to do above and beyond it's stock ability is to replace the 10 micron filter with at least a 2 micron filter and install a regulator (adjustable) on it.
I came across another product that does virtually the same thing and it gave a little more info about the benefits of the system I wanted to go ahead and post it....
Here is a copy/paste from their website:
The Fuel Preporator®
The complete fuel filtration and delivery system
The Fuel Preporator® is a complete fuel filtration and delivery system for diesel engines. With its own transfer pump and air separation system, it not only removes particulate and water contaminates, but more importantly, removes air in solution, entrained air bubbles, and fuel vapor from the fuel flow to the engine. The Fuel Preporator® also maintains a constant positive and monitored pressure/flow of fuel to the engine fuel system, eliminating cavitation, a condition that produces vapours within the fuel system. To realize the value of the Fuel Preporator® to world environmental issues and its need by the diesel industry, it is necessary to examine the dilemma presented by the problems surrounding diesel engine performance and diesel fuel. While today's middle distillate fuel still meets ASTM Specifications for Diesel Fuel Oils, problems arising from the fuels susceptibility to both outside contaminants and inherent deficiencies call for examination of current fuelling systems, their inadequacies and the solution.
Since its inception, the diesel engine has been known to run rough, produce a wet smelly exhaust at idle and excessive exhaust smoke under power. It also is known to vary in power output from day to day, lose power, and have an increase in all of the previously mentioned performance inconsistencies as the fuel filter becomes more restricted with use. The performance of the diesel engine also suffers when the fuel becomes warm to hot or when the engine is operated at a higher altitude. It is of utmost importance to world environmental issues that the cause and affect of these deficiencies be understood and the solution be both obtainable and applied by those responsible within the industry.
Specifically, how the inadequacies of the "vacuum feed" fuel filtration system currently in-use worldwide fails to meet the entire fuel delivery needs and filtration requirements of the diesel engine. In addition, how the concept of the "vacuum feed system" is in fact the source of the performance irregularities and inconsistencies of the diesel engine.
Diesel fuel becomes contaminated in three ways; by air, water, and by the fuel itself. Air enters through vents. It may be filtered, but can still carry dust, hydrocarbon utilizing bacteria, microbiological spores, and large amounts of moisture. Air, entrained in the fuel, is a contaminate that displaces the fuel which lubricates the fuel system components. This leads to metal on metal abrasive wear. The presence of water in diesel fuel, introduced accidentally or through condensation can lead to the degradation of the fuel and create a fertile growing environment for microbiological contaminants. In large ocean going ships water is used as ballast within the fuel tank as the fuel is consumed. Diesel fuel is also self contaminating. As fuel ages, it degrades forming insoluble materials. These insolubles, when in the presence of water, bond into large clumps of 'goo'.
All of these contaminates which are known to cause filter plugging; the particulates, the water, and the microbial sludge and slimes, are removed from the fuel by the "vacuum feed" system, but removed at a cost. That cost, increased fuel flow restriction, increases as the fuel filter plugs with use. Air/vapor is not removed by the filter! The amount of air/vapor present in the fuel system varies continually as effecting conditions vary. It should also be noted that, as stated in Caterpillar's Special Instruction 651-1250, "Normally, No. 2 Diesel Fuel contains about 10% air in solution". Neither the air in solution nor the entrained air/vapor is addressed by the fuel filter of the "vacuum feed" system. As Cummins Engine Company states in Service Topic 5-135 "when the equilibrium point is reached [air in the filter], any further air or vapor released from the fuel or brought in with the fuel through an air leak passes through the paper [filter paper] immediately at the extreme top".
The action of the fuel transfer pump to create a vacuum necessary to effect the flow of fuel from the fuel tank, through the lines and filter to the pump, does more than just move fuel. As stated, in the Milwaukee School of Engineering Handbook on Hydraulics, "The air, which is usually dissolved in the fluid, is pulled out of solution at the inlet side of the pump due to the pressure at the pump suction port being a vacuum". Air/vapor, whether entrained in the fuel from sloshing in the tank or "pulled out of solution at the inlet side of the pump", is a product of the inadequate "vacuum feed" system.
The presence of air/vapour in the fuel injection system of the diesel engine, because of its compressibility, causes a lag or delay in the injection of fuel. This retarding of the injection timing has a similar effect on diesel engine performance as that of a gasoline engine in severe need of a "tune-up", roughness, high fuel consumption, lower than rated power, and increased smelly exhaust with increased EMISSIONS!
Air/vapor because it is compressible requires more travel of the injector plunger to reach injector pressure. This delays the pressure build-up in the injector, in turn, delaying the injection of fuel and retarding the injection timing of the engine. The retarded injection timing shortens the power stroke of the engine or simply reduces the amount of time the fuel has to burn. The amount of air/vapor present varies with each injection. All of this means that the engine has now lost power, runs rough, uses more fuel, but even worse has increased the amount of unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) emitting from the exhaust in the form of black smoke. The unburned hydrocarbons, whether visible as black smoke or not present at a level to be visible to the naked eye, form deposits in the combustion chamber of the engine.
The diesel engine, since its inception, has run rougher and loses power as the fuel filter becomes more restricted with use. Consequently, these symptoms have not only become accepted, but rather expected by the user. Also, the wet diesel smell of the idling diesel engine is tolerated as a "fact of life."
High speed diesels lose torque and fuel economy at midrange and higher operating speeds. This is especially troublesome in marine applications where the maximum output of the engine is most commonly the norm. While operating at higher Rpms the fuel pump develops extreme cavitation. This creates a high ratio of air/vapor to fuel, in turn, greatly retarding the injection timing of the engine. In addition, this is compounded by the increasing temperature of the fuel. Correcting the injection timing of the engine to design specification is a matter of eliminating the air/vapor from the fuel and the conditions that create cavitation in the fuel pump. Once air/vapor has been eliminated from the fuel injection system, the injection timing will be corrected and the power output and efficiency of the engine will then be restored to the rated level desired by the designer.
These conditions and symptoms, which are not particularly noticeable in a new diesel engine or in the test cell, develop and increase with use. The increasing level of toxic emissions which spew from the exhaust of "in use" diesel engines, are the direct result of the "vacuum feed" system's inadequacy. The inadequacy is to remove entrained air/vapor from the fuel and inability to deliver the fuel to the pump at a pressure great enough to eliminate cavitation. The very concept of the system, "vacuum feed," is at the heart of the problem
The development of the diesel engine and the quest for precise injection timing has led to the use of the Electronic Control Module (ECM). Precise control of the mechanism of the fuel injector through the use of an ECM has made these symptoms somewhat less noticeable. However, because the source of these symptoms are in the fuel and not the mechanism of the engine, they have not been fully understood or resolved, until NOW!
The product is UK and NOT a bargain (if I did my currency conversions correctly)but I felt it an interesting read.
IMO your not just buying a lift pump and filter set when you go with the FASS System. It looks like your buying ALOT of solutions for the money.
Here is their website: http://www.superslipperystuff.com/ht...reparator.html
James
I came across another product that does virtually the same thing and it gave a little more info about the benefits of the system I wanted to go ahead and post it....
Here is a copy/paste from their website:
The Fuel Preporator®
The complete fuel filtration and delivery system
The Fuel Preporator® is a complete fuel filtration and delivery system for diesel engines. With its own transfer pump and air separation system, it not only removes particulate and water contaminates, but more importantly, removes air in solution, entrained air bubbles, and fuel vapor from the fuel flow to the engine. The Fuel Preporator® also maintains a constant positive and monitored pressure/flow of fuel to the engine fuel system, eliminating cavitation, a condition that produces vapours within the fuel system. To realize the value of the Fuel Preporator® to world environmental issues and its need by the diesel industry, it is necessary to examine the dilemma presented by the problems surrounding diesel engine performance and diesel fuel. While today's middle distillate fuel still meets ASTM Specifications for Diesel Fuel Oils, problems arising from the fuels susceptibility to both outside contaminants and inherent deficiencies call for examination of current fuelling systems, their inadequacies and the solution.
Since its inception, the diesel engine has been known to run rough, produce a wet smelly exhaust at idle and excessive exhaust smoke under power. It also is known to vary in power output from day to day, lose power, and have an increase in all of the previously mentioned performance inconsistencies as the fuel filter becomes more restricted with use. The performance of the diesel engine also suffers when the fuel becomes warm to hot or when the engine is operated at a higher altitude. It is of utmost importance to world environmental issues that the cause and affect of these deficiencies be understood and the solution be both obtainable and applied by those responsible within the industry.
Specifically, how the inadequacies of the "vacuum feed" fuel filtration system currently in-use worldwide fails to meet the entire fuel delivery needs and filtration requirements of the diesel engine. In addition, how the concept of the "vacuum feed system" is in fact the source of the performance irregularities and inconsistencies of the diesel engine.
Diesel fuel becomes contaminated in three ways; by air, water, and by the fuel itself. Air enters through vents. It may be filtered, but can still carry dust, hydrocarbon utilizing bacteria, microbiological spores, and large amounts of moisture. Air, entrained in the fuel, is a contaminate that displaces the fuel which lubricates the fuel system components. This leads to metal on metal abrasive wear. The presence of water in diesel fuel, introduced accidentally or through condensation can lead to the degradation of the fuel and create a fertile growing environment for microbiological contaminants. In large ocean going ships water is used as ballast within the fuel tank as the fuel is consumed. Diesel fuel is also self contaminating. As fuel ages, it degrades forming insoluble materials. These insolubles, when in the presence of water, bond into large clumps of 'goo'.
All of these contaminates which are known to cause filter plugging; the particulates, the water, and the microbial sludge and slimes, are removed from the fuel by the "vacuum feed" system, but removed at a cost. That cost, increased fuel flow restriction, increases as the fuel filter plugs with use. Air/vapor is not removed by the filter! The amount of air/vapor present in the fuel system varies continually as effecting conditions vary. It should also be noted that, as stated in Caterpillar's Special Instruction 651-1250, "Normally, No. 2 Diesel Fuel contains about 10% air in solution". Neither the air in solution nor the entrained air/vapor is addressed by the fuel filter of the "vacuum feed" system. As Cummins Engine Company states in Service Topic 5-135 "when the equilibrium point is reached [air in the filter], any further air or vapor released from the fuel or brought in with the fuel through an air leak passes through the paper [filter paper] immediately at the extreme top".
The action of the fuel transfer pump to create a vacuum necessary to effect the flow of fuel from the fuel tank, through the lines and filter to the pump, does more than just move fuel. As stated, in the Milwaukee School of Engineering Handbook on Hydraulics, "The air, which is usually dissolved in the fluid, is pulled out of solution at the inlet side of the pump due to the pressure at the pump suction port being a vacuum". Air/vapor, whether entrained in the fuel from sloshing in the tank or "pulled out of solution at the inlet side of the pump", is a product of the inadequate "vacuum feed" system.
The presence of air/vapour in the fuel injection system of the diesel engine, because of its compressibility, causes a lag or delay in the injection of fuel. This retarding of the injection timing has a similar effect on diesel engine performance as that of a gasoline engine in severe need of a "tune-up", roughness, high fuel consumption, lower than rated power, and increased smelly exhaust with increased EMISSIONS!
Air/vapor because it is compressible requires more travel of the injector plunger to reach injector pressure. This delays the pressure build-up in the injector, in turn, delaying the injection of fuel and retarding the injection timing of the engine. The retarded injection timing shortens the power stroke of the engine or simply reduces the amount of time the fuel has to burn. The amount of air/vapor present varies with each injection. All of this means that the engine has now lost power, runs rough, uses more fuel, but even worse has increased the amount of unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) emitting from the exhaust in the form of black smoke. The unburned hydrocarbons, whether visible as black smoke or not present at a level to be visible to the naked eye, form deposits in the combustion chamber of the engine.
The diesel engine, since its inception, has run rougher and loses power as the fuel filter becomes more restricted with use. Consequently, these symptoms have not only become accepted, but rather expected by the user. Also, the wet diesel smell of the idling diesel engine is tolerated as a "fact of life."
High speed diesels lose torque and fuel economy at midrange and higher operating speeds. This is especially troublesome in marine applications where the maximum output of the engine is most commonly the norm. While operating at higher Rpms the fuel pump develops extreme cavitation. This creates a high ratio of air/vapor to fuel, in turn, greatly retarding the injection timing of the engine. In addition, this is compounded by the increasing temperature of the fuel. Correcting the injection timing of the engine to design specification is a matter of eliminating the air/vapor from the fuel and the conditions that create cavitation in the fuel pump. Once air/vapor has been eliminated from the fuel injection system, the injection timing will be corrected and the power output and efficiency of the engine will then be restored to the rated level desired by the designer.
These conditions and symptoms, which are not particularly noticeable in a new diesel engine or in the test cell, develop and increase with use. The increasing level of toxic emissions which spew from the exhaust of "in use" diesel engines, are the direct result of the "vacuum feed" system's inadequacy. The inadequacy is to remove entrained air/vapor from the fuel and inability to deliver the fuel to the pump at a pressure great enough to eliminate cavitation. The very concept of the system, "vacuum feed," is at the heart of the problem
The development of the diesel engine and the quest for precise injection timing has led to the use of the Electronic Control Module (ECM). Precise control of the mechanism of the fuel injector through the use of an ECM has made these symptoms somewhat less noticeable. However, because the source of these symptoms are in the fuel and not the mechanism of the engine, they have not been fully understood or resolved, until NOW!
The product is UK and NOT a bargain (if I did my currency conversions correctly)but I felt it an interesting read.
IMO your not just buying a lift pump and filter set when you go with the FASS System. It looks like your buying ALOT of solutions for the money.
Here is their website: http://www.superslipperystuff.com/ht...reparator.html
James
11-05-2003, 06:05 PM
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Re:LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
Hmmmmmm
Seems it is a US Company also ??? and it looks alot like the FASS System ;D
http://www.fuelpreporator.com/
James
Seems it is a US Company also ??? and it looks alot like the FASS System ;D
http://www.fuelpreporator.com/
James
11-05-2003, 06:33 PM
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Re:LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
I had posted in another thread. The Preporator was the first system and there was some kind of a family situation where the son set up business and is selling the FASS system. The two of them are essentially the same. The Preporator is somewhat higher in price.
Don't know if you would want a 2 micron filter. My system (FASS) used up the filter in 10,000 miles. Possibly the tank was dirty and the constant recycling of fuel cleaned it up dirtying the fuel. Interesting how it acted. The starting went weak, once runningit was ok but the fuel pressure to start was real weak. I then noticed that the pressure was running a pound or so low. Replaced the filter and it was back to normal. Its a big filter and there must have been a bunch of junk to kill it.
Don't know if you would want a 2 micron filter. My system (FASS) used up the filter in 10,000 miles. Possibly the tank was dirty and the constant recycling of fuel cleaned it up dirtying the fuel. Interesting how it acted. The starting went weak, once runningit was ok but the fuel pressure to start was real weak. I then noticed that the pressure was running a pound or so low. Replaced the filter and it was back to normal. Its a big filter and there must have been a bunch of junk to kill it.
11-05-2003, 06:47 PM
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Re:LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
Haulin,
I'm not sure if that re-affirms the fact that I want a 2 micron filter or makes me want to rethink it...
Interesting point though...
In my case with 37,000 miles on a truck I have had since May of 2000, 10,000 miles is a LONG time.
Have you noticed any of the positive results they claim or any negative effects?
James
I'm not sure if that re-affirms the fact that I want a 2 micron filter or makes me want to rethink it...
Interesting point though...
In my case with 37,000 miles on a truck I have had since May of 2000, 10,000 miles is a LONG time.
Have you noticed any of the positive results they claim or any negative effects?
James
11-05-2003, 06:52 PM
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Re:LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
I found the thread where you posted about the two...
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...=20059;start=0
Pretty good info there too
James
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...=20059;start=0
Pretty good info there too
James
11-06-2003, 01:16 PM
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Re:LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
After a long talk with the gentleman from the Fuel Preporator I have come to the conclusion that it is probably worth the extra money.
Currently it is not available with a nifty "out of the box" kit for our trucks but it is clearly a higher quality product and it won't take much to install it.
I also got the impression that the FASS system may not be around very long due to some serious legal issues.
James
Currently it is not available with a nifty "out of the box" kit for our trucks but it is clearly a higher quality product and it won't take much to install it.
I also got the impression that the FASS system may not be around very long due to some serious legal issues.
James
12-01-2003, 07:30 PM
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Re:LIFT PUMP or FASS interesting read
Interesting debate going on in the TDR about the FASS and Preporator. I went with the Preporator and am very happy with it. Having said that I have no knowledge about the FASS system and it may be a great system as well!!!!
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...p;pagenumber=1
Both Father (preporator inventor) and son (FASS inventor) are making comments on that thread.
personnally I would like to see a dyno comparison between the two.
James
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...p;pagenumber=1
Both Father (preporator inventor) and son (FASS inventor) are making comments on that thread.
personnally I would like to see a dyno comparison between the two.
James
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