crossy

in an answer to a guy asking for more 6.5 GM turbo info/build ups.. DIESEL POWER magazine has promised they will be doing some articles on that engine. a N/A 6.9 or 7.3 Furd, AND----------------- they say they are in the midst of buying an 89-93 CTD. ithink we should ALL start emailing them with suggestions, but most of all to keep it on a real level reminding them that most guys buying and bombing first gens are not millionaires. Since it is a durable cummins they could go through the whole gammet(sp?) of our simple pump mods with a minor upgrade turbo like an HX35 and eventually get to a full house build up.
they will want to stop at mild bombing to the venerable 6.5 I'm sure:-) .
crossy

Begle1

Best way to bomb a 6.5 liter involves a few pounds of black powder in through the injector holes...

wannadiesel

Now that's BOMBing!

MJDiesel

**** Straight!!!

stillsmokin

Guys, Kids?

Stop the 6.5 bashing, the only junk ones were the 94-95 models (massive problems with the optical sensor in the electronic pump). Besides don't you hate it when one of the p7100 team look down on you for your little rotary pump! Take it from someone who owned a GM diesel and worked on them for the company that built em. The weak link is supposedly the cast crank, but I never saw one break. Also over / owner advanced timing didn't help, the compression is 23.5:1 not 16:1 or so like the cummins. Too much boost (over 20 PSI) or too much advance and melted pistons. The wussy lift pump or bad oil pressure switch has smoked its share of pistons as well.

I'm building one with a guy now. Its a '93 6.5 turbo MECHANICAL injection model (the good one only made for a year and a half). Were pitching the sissy GM3 IHI turbo and it's joke of a wastegate actuator for an HX35W (then it gets boost), 300 HP Marine injectors, pump mods, custom lift pump, main girdle, intercooler, water meth, and possibly a custom 4340 steel crank. We might upgrade to the enhanced block '96-00 which has piston skirt cooling just like cummins and use a set of Mahle 16.5:1 pistons to up our boost capabilities.

These engines can be built to run hard and stay together. Besides it's cool to do what others say is impossible like making a first gen run hard. I'd be first in line to help diesel power magazine with both builds if they actually did them. You guys would as well.

You guys are still scarred from the olds 5.7 diesel. But, remember dodges first attempt that nissan chrysler 6 N/A talk about a POS don't even get me started.

wannadiesel

I have no beef with the 6.2/6.5 rotating assembly. The electronic pump is another matter, and the whole glow plug thing kinda sucks too.

They are pretty reliable in stock form, but it's best to leave them that way unless you want to do like you're doing and redo the whole motor.

MJDiesel

Hey, even us children know a boat anchor when we see one!!!!!!!! JK!

Seriously, the 6.5 is probably not such a bad motor if it is in a half-ton pickup and/or doesn't get used for heavy towing very often. Still, it is a motor that takes patience; and it, along with the 6.2, has not had the best relibability or longevity record. It seems like there are alot of 6.5s sitting on non-GM lots, and they are worth less than similar Chevys with gas engines. The Cummins, on the other hand, is a heavy duty engine ready to take the abuse of frequent towing, and it is generally very reliable. The old rotary pump kinda sucks, but you can get quite a bit of power out of it, and a set of injectors will provide all the power that anyone needs.

If ya need a Chevy, get a 454!! To hell with fuel mileage!!!!!!

P.S. I think that it would be sweet to drop a 6.5 into an older car, like a Cadillac. I saw a Camaro or Firebird with one.

Diesel Junkie

I was getting ready to put a 6.2L GM in my off road truck.... Its a rock crawler, so no real power mods required.....

I had already bought 2 old motors, and about 400lbs of spare 6.2 parts that a guy had collected after 20+ years of 6.2 ownership....

Then i learned more about them. The injection pump is driven by the timing chain.
I have a buddy that is on his 5th injection pump in a 6.5, with no mods to the truck.
The same guy wanted to buy a 6speed cummins about 5-6 years ago... but he decided they were too expensive so he bought a 6.5L Dually 4 door 4x4 instead and added injectors, water, propane and a couple other things.... after blowing up 2 trannys, he melted a piston. He is taking his time, but the replacement motor is almost back together 3 years later..... i cant blame him though. He and his dad are big chevy freaks... he has 4 chevy diesels in all.

Bottom line is that i couldnt risk the reliability of a 6.2 in my rock crawler... Dont need to get stranded 40 miles from pavement.

Not to bag on the chevy motors too much... But thats the way it is... Beauty thing is that i was able to sell the motors and parts for more than i had into them... funny thing is that is how it always seems to work out for car parts.

farmer0_1

we have several of them gm diesels on the farm bought them all brand new. two 84 one with 200k and i replaced the engine. another with 400k and it had a new engine around 200k and it towed 4-5 ton loads all the time. and a 87 stick that has 150k and i forgot about the 85 suburban and the other 85 i just bought. yes they tow slow and the resale is not much. but for reliability we just can't complain and cheap overall rigs to drive. i do like my first gen dodge , but i broke my self in on a long line of gms. dad has a dmax to and it tows pretty dang good. once i got rid of the dual mass flywheel. no body or box cracks in any of them with 20 plus years of farm use. i must say that the electronics on the 95 and newer 6.5s is a joke and cannot belive any one would put up with that. our 6.2 got replaced with new in the crate 6.5 . just one word HUMVEE

crossy

still smokin, you should mail the SAME letter you typed here to Dieselpower and maybe they will hire you on.
MJdiesel, funny thing.In this months mag they had a full comparo between a 6.5TD burb and a 454 vortec burb. they were only towing 6K#s and the 6.5TD could not maintain 65mph up a slight grade where they could run 80 with the 454. needless to ay that the 6.5 easily won the fuel mileage contest. I love the guys that say their 454 gets 10 pulling or towing, LIE! and the test proved it. they get 10 on a good day and 7 on a tow day. crossy

MJDiesel

Yeah, I saw that article, too. I was not surprized with the mileage of the 454, but I didn't expect the 6.5 to be as efficient as it was. I have also heard a number of people (who drive like maniacs and tow heavy loads) claim that their 454 gets 12-14 mpg. Some also makes claims of the same mileage towing or empty. I guess that alot of people stretch it a little when they are talking about mileage! One neighbor, being completely honest, said that his 454 only got 2-4 mpg pulling a backhoe. Ouch!

crossy

I can tell you this. With my 05 I towed home a 3/4 ton 454 burb on my trailer(7500# total) from pa. to so. NJ then back up to pa. and I got 14.2 MPG :-)

stillsmokin

6.5's are in high demand here and sell about $2000 over blue book. Course for the record anything diesel is big money here maybe highest retail prices in the US . FYI I have a 454 vortec /nv4500 I purchased new, and 73 chevy k20 454 4 speed/205 400hp/550TQ they will pull to the death. The big block chevy knew the term overloaded before anyone made a diesel pickup. Oh wait, thats right GM built had a little known diesel engine in pickup option in 1970 when the 396 (402) was the biggest engine in a GM pickup truck. The trucks were powered by detroit 3-53 N/A motors. The 454 wasn't offered in trucks from the factory till 1973 and it was 2wd ONLY! till 1981 when big block were introduced in 4x4s.

My 454's are nearly uneffected by load, as are most. Turn on the a/c it won't drop the mileage pulling.

The 6.2 timing chain thing had me laughing hard . That chain runs a roller cam (minimal drag compared to solid lifters on the cummins). It has steel gears and is a double roller just like many competition gas motors run. This adds life to the injection pump. Stretch or break isn't in the vocabulary when your running 15W40. It also dampens the shock of diesel power pulses unlike helical gears which directly transfer the same pulses. I have seen many many GM IDI diesels over the 400,000 mile range.

It is easy to be brand biased when it comes to engines. A real hot rodder sees potential of any engine in its design features.... Of course you have to understand these concepts from an engineering or hands on point of view rather than being blinded by the opinion of others. I have built and repaired hundreds maybe thousands of light duty truck engines and built many for competition. There is no greater reward than watching a truck full pull for the win first time out on the engine you designed.

I was brand biased towards GM products for 22 years. I selected the first gen intercooled dodge I own for its leaf spring front suspension with standard dana 60 axle. It looks similar to the 73-87 GM truck body lines and shares many features. I went with the intercooled model for obvious reasons and selected the manual transmission as dodge has been plagued by automatic transmission problems for many years. The body cracks, common roof rust out problem, and poor electrical system were a disappoitment. However I will keep the dodge till I die. It was hard for me to admit my favorite truck couldn't give me what I wanted. I was tired of going to training center courses as a GM diesel tech and hearing about talks with Caterpillar that were going nowhere.

MJDiesel

6.5s sell for $2000 over book?!?! Oh....... its Nebraska. Thats the problem! jk!

Begle1

$2,000 isn't that much, is it?

I couldn't find a single 6.5 in Southern California for below $3,500; 6.2's run for $2,000 in a realy beat up chassis; Cummins are virtually non-existant for below $4,000...

What's the most anybody call pull out of a 6.5? 400 HP with $10,000 in engine modifications?