Cameronc

Ok so i've never played with injectors before and need to learn before i make a mistake and buy garbage.. There is SO MANY options and brands.. just would like some feed back on brands what works what the heck is what..We have 7 hole 8 hole, Extrode Honed, Edm's, Jammers, Nozzles, 275's even saw 300's, Industial Injections version of 275's flowed 2 or 3 times?,Then we have to start worring about egt with stock turbos, at what level do you grow out of the stock turbo. I'm done now thanks in advance guys

J BODY

well to clear things up what do YOU want the truck to do? First thing I see is that you have an auto trans and currently run an EZ. I wanted my truck to pull my toys better (boat and race trailer) and ran the EZ for a long time......of course I wanted a wee bit more and the RV 275 injectors put me right where I wanted to be......and now to the "bad" news.

Don't expect to upgrade you engine without having to pay attention to the rest of your driveline. These engines are incredibly de-tuned so that the trans has a chance at survival. I upgraded my spare trans and had it ready to go. Within a month of the injector install I found that it was way too easy to drive through the torque converter on the stock unit and installed my upgraded trans. Works like a champ now!

Cameronc

Mine is a daily driver and don't tow... Would like to piece together 400hp with room to grow eventually.. It's safe to say that this will be a budget build up and don't want to buy something cheap that i will have to replace down the road.. I'm pretty sure a set of small injectors and an adjustable fueling box should get me there... I Think??

HOHN

The stock turbo will support a max of about 350hp towing, depending on elevation and temp. If you tow heavy, there are times when you will have to back out of it a little with 350hp because temps are a little too warm when towing heavy uphill in hot weather.

Injector-wise, that translates into an injector right around 80hp (figure 220 hp stock, 50hp for the timing box you're likely running with the injectors, and then the injectors).

Injectors can be made one of two ways: either a custom blank nozzle can be machined from scratch or you can modify an existing Bosch nozzle (typically the 275, as that's the biggest factory injector for 24V trucks like ours).

Almost all of the EDM injectors use a custom nozzle that is machined from blank. EDM is used to drill the holes, giving the injector designer complete control over the specs (number and diameter of holes, as well as spray angle). If an EDM nozzle does NOT start with a blank nozzle, run away. A Bosch nozzle that is modified via the EDM process is a ticking time bomb. EDM, if you're not up on that, is a process that uses a tiny electric arc to erode metal away in tiny little amounts. There's an electrode that's thinner than a human hair that's used to precisely discharge an electric arc that will vaporize metal, allowing tiny holes to be drilled with the highest levels of precision and roundness.

With the modifed Bosch nozzles, an injector has the existing Bosch holes enlarged by forcing an abrasive liquid through the holes. This increases flow and hole size. But it also can negatively affect the sharpness of the hole edges (atomization), spray angle, and hole-to-hole balance unless each hole is honed separately (I don't think any shops do this.).

Don't be confused by 300s-- they are the same as 275s. This is injector is used in a 300hp Cummins engine as well as the 275hp RV tune that gives the injector its name-- hence some marketers call them "300s" because they are used in a 300hp engine. Let's face it, which would you buy? It's intellectually dishonest, but marketing is marketing, and those guys aren't known for exceptional forthrightness.

Nozzles are a way to save money, because you buy just the "business end" of an injector and have your current injectors mated to the new nozzles, which will require pop testing and other professional setup to make them work their best.

As for personal preference, the F1 injectors are probably the Rolls Royce of 24V injectors. They are priced like it, too.

Jammers are much cheaper, but appear to have a much higher rate of snafus and other little aggravations with them, though plenty of had good results. Both the Jammers and the Machs are EDM, but that's like saying both Barry Bonds and I play baseball.

On the honed injectors, I think the Dynomite Diesel Performance injectors are the best. They singlehandedly revived the honed injector, as people almost abandoned them once EDM came on the scene. They have a lot of trucks making big power. Pricing wise, they are not as expensive as the Machs, but not as cheap as the Jammers because they are matched very closely to each other, and the high tolerance costs money.

There are other honed injectors like the older Diesel Dynamics which aren't too bad.

Then there are the Bully Dog injectors, which imo are not worth the hassle of installing. They tend to be all sizzle and no steak-- smoke and heat, but comparably less power and worse MPG. I'd suggest avoiding them.

I don't know anything about the Industrial Injection injectors, but I think they are honed. They are supposed almost as good as the DDP injectors.

Justin

dodgediesel

I'm curious about a EGT comparison. Does anyone know the difference in EGT's between a 80hp jammer injector and a 150 hp Mach 4 injector???? Just preparing myself for a possible EGT problem!!!!

HOHN

I've never run an 80hp Jammer, but I can tell you the M4s can bring some heat.

Relative to their size, though-- they run quite cool. In daily driving, I didn't notice any real EGT increase over my honed 75hp injectors. When you got into it, you'll see the heat, as well as see the boost go 6-10psi higher.

Cameronc

Wooo.. Thank you very much Hohn sounds like you've done this once or twice, and also sounds like you've got to spend the money to get something good (not just a marketing scam) So your vote stands with F1 or the DDP as far as good power with managable egt's and smoke right?

HOHN

How many votes do I get? If just one, you can tell what I bought. I had to save 2 years to upgrade over my honed 75hp injectors, and I'd do it again.

jmo

Cameronc

Yes they are up there in price... What do you think will meet my needs just daily driving and don't care for a smoke show that will help me get 400 hp.. I don't see many people running Mach 2's or 3's usually 1.6's, 4's and up?

HOHN

The reason for that is that the guys who want to tow and have full functionality stop with the 1.6s because they don't make too much heat.

The M4s are so clean for the size that there's little reason to go smaller if you are looking for performance. Hence, you don't see much of the 2s or 3s around anymore.

What else will you be running with your injectors in your quest for 400hp? If you are only running the EZ, you'll need a big injector like the M4s to get there. With a fueling box like an Edge Comp, you'll only need injectors in the 85hp range (1.6).

I think an Edge Comp or Quad's Xzillaraider and M1.6s is a great all-around setup that should get you close to 400hp and be more versatile than other setups.

Justin

1BAD4X4

What about a guy who prefers smoke(and I know from reading a lot of the highly informational posts HOHN... that you don't like smoke and that its essentially being ineffiecient), doesn't tow, stock turbo, and will be running the power puck soon?



Would 275s fit the bill for me? what kind of numbers would I be seing possibly? Both power and EGTs.

Big Blue24

I wouldn't waste my time with the 275's. They do add power but seem to fall on their face around fourth gear in my five speed. If you want smoke, buy some Jammer's. Just go with the nozzle and buy a used set of injectors to swap them into so you don't have to have more than a few hours of down time. I went with the 5's, supposedly 150 HP but more like 130. They will smoke forever with this stock turbo if it's hot and I mash the throttle. My mileage hasn't suffered or improved with these tips. My previous 275's felt good but not good enough to justify their purchase. Industrial injection injectors are edm'd as well, at least I don't see how they can produce 10 hole injectors without that process. They are good injectors from what I hear, but i've never ran them.

Also, you might as well learn how to swap out injectors right now, why pay 1-200$ each time you experiment. Most people that have done one experiment on injectors will do another set after a year or two.

Jetpilot

Look into something Buddha Power makes. They are the smokiest injectors that I have seen. They don't make the HP but sure put on a big smoke show!

Doug

Cameronc

Alright so 1.6's a fueling box and my ez should put me in the neighborhood with plenty of room to grow...

PaulDaisy

That sounds great! no HP and a lot of smoke? I have seen that recently at my camp site when starting a fire from wet firewood.

Awesome info Hohn, thanks! I am learning about injectors too at this time. One needs time and money to experiment... once I pay off the truck I will experiment. I am falling behind on my toys, I either don't have the money, or don't have the time
-P