Afternoon, DTR...

I usually don't get in the political stuff... but this one is near and dear...

I have seen a lot of discussion on illegal immigrants lately, and it is a big problem in the US.

It's not going to change unless we put out foot down to our political leaders and demand a change.

Thing is, I don't think that anyone really wants a change. As much as we cry about it, no one wants to pay 40 bucks for a gallon of milk or orange juice, so we hire illegals to do the work at a third of the cost, not counting their lack of healthcare cost to the employer...

I don't know if kicking all the illegals out would solve our problems. The prices of labor would hit us hard in the end.

What to do?

mad

I think there has been stepped up enforcement already due to political pressure. It's easy for us to bash the politicians...and im as guilty as anybody. But I have noticed there have been "some" changes. INS is hiring hiring hiring.....Need a job?

Some illegals have gone back to Mexico on their own due to increased pressure.

Don't get me wrong.......there is much, much work to do. But it does take time to get the ball rolling and I think it has started. NOW we need to keep the pressure on. This guy hit the nail on the head!!! http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=214806


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And........I don't mind paying a little bit more for goods and services up front for LEGAL American Labor...........rather than pay it on the back end for health care costs (and many others) for the Illegals.


Remember too....that we live in a Global Economy....and our workforce has to compete with China, India etc. It is not just illegals keeping our prices (and wages) low.

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Perhaps one solution could be to enforce the existing immigration laws and also require those people that are on public assistance and are physically capable do some of the jobs that the illegal immigrants do. That could possibly not only provide some kind of training for those people but possibly encourage them to get off of the welfare rolls.

Might help if we didn't make it so easy to get by up here without learning english. If it were me, I might be insulted that I could find my way all the way up here, but not be able to find my way into Lowe's or a grocery store without the netrance in spanish.

I shouldn't have to press 1 for english.

You also have to look at the employers hiring the illegals. Minumum wages and labour laws should be enforced. Illegals know they have an advantage by willing to work for less than average wages, and the companies would rather hire them because of that. But if everyone starts under cutting the others to get a job, with an economy on the downturn and jobs becoming tighter, its going to get worse and worse. Its easy to just blame the immigrants, but they aren't the only guilty party.

What Tate said. Slam the employers so hard that they stop hiring illegals. If there are no jobs to be found here, most of them will go home on their own.

We also need to open the door wider to let folks come here and work. When they come legally, companies will at least have to pay them minimum wage and improve working conditions. Right now the illegals get paid slave wages to work in unsafe conditions because they are here illegally and won't complain. What really makes me sick is that we need illegals to work here because we have too many "Americans" who were born here that are too fat and lazy to be worthy of that name. These folks are too proud to pick vegetables, but not too proud to take welfare.

I fear we cannot nor will we ever do anything. Oh, we will have a token fence, and we will hire more GOVT agents, there bloating the Fed. Gov. and "Creating" those elusive jobs that all these politicians claim they have created.

Here is President Diesel carpenter's plan on immigration reform.


#1 Steel curtain initiative.


Full coast to coast,double super max prison fence either side of a paved patrol road with deep sand either side. Full time surveillance/gun towers every 1000 yards, shoot to kill all invaders, all inbound traffic will be considered hostile to the interests of the United states. Streamline process against permits,use all private labor with approved workers. Use all US materials. Get funding by reducing all govt Salary's in the EPA, IRS, BLM, USFS, STATE Dept, Congress, CIA, DEA or as seen fit by 5% until funding goals are reached. Make accommodations with land owners to provide alternatives to Rio grand cattle watering and alleviate all other concerns. Within the realm of common sense and not compromising the fence.

Benefits: US jobs created, proper National border security established, streamlined duties for border patrol agents = manpower reduction. All illegal incursions will be limited to acts of war by cutting or damaging US territorial structures, IE. the fence. and tunneling which with proper seismic gear for dual use by the USGS/ various UNIV. and border patrol will be greatly reduced to manageable levels. Immigration will become regulated and monitored at the "WIDE" border entry points!!


#2 Labor reforms:

All Ceo's and managers who knowingly hire undocumented workers or Illegal aliens of any kind. Will be convicted and minimum 5 year sentence without parole or sentence restructuring.

All companies which are found to have illegal workers will be fined 1 million dollars per worker due within 1 month of infraction discovery at which point all assets will be seized and auctioned off. funds from said auctions will go toward the national debt without fail.

Union reforms- these can get quit complicated so short and sweet, Unions are big and corrupt, they have inflated the value of the work the people do. We as a country need to bring down unions. This must be done along side of economic reforms, and energy reforms, minimum wage reforms. Honest pay for honest work. Benefits are good but nothing comes for free.

As company's must pay more for energy, materials, and labor they have to cover the costs by passing this on to the consumers. If we can affect these things, our pay vs our consumption will be come more in line, we could buy more with less and then Americans would be more inclined to do more jobs.

Homeless/inmate to work act:

Homeless:
All homeless must be enrolled in a work program,( provided they are sane, other accommodations will be made) they will be paid for their work the same as others by the business of choice, the only difference will be a systematic "round-up" Room and board will be provided for one month. Each worker will have a choice of job, location and skill to be learned. If they fail to integrate into working and prosperous society they will be institutionalized.

Inmate:

Prisons will become the new sweatshops. Textiles, food production, Our vast prison inmate system will become the stop gap for the loss of foreign workers. Forced labor will foster OJT and skills learning while providing much needed service to the country. The inmates will be paid by the private firms at standard rates which will be garnished to pay for prison upkeep. Prisons will moved to industrial and agricultural centers to facilitate work. In short chain gangs for all inmates:With this could do away with death penalty because upkeep would be paid for at the level of earning. Or we could make all non parole lifers sudden executions?? All jailed offenders would be required to serve at least 90 days in a work center.

Adult work or else act:


All US adults 18 or older must be employed or enrolled in education within six months of birthday or previous employment. No limit on type of school or employment, but must draw pay or be in a program. Failure to comply will result in mandatory 1 yr standard military service (with all benefits) in branch of choice, failure to comply will result in 2 yr prison at a forced work program.

#3 Welfare reforms:


All such benefits will only be allowed for Full documented US citizens with mandatory document checks and searches.

Reduce welfare to those who are disabled only.

Welfare to work act: Part 2 of the homeless to work act. Pick a job, take it and move forward with your life.


#4 Repeal the born on US soil baby loop hole:

Nuff said, Birth certs will require full citizenship documentation of both parents.


#5 Sec. State Brief to Mexico and Canada:


Dear Neighbor to the North/South,

In these perilous times of global Jihad and terror. It is incumbent on every Nation to monitor its borders. Yours and ours are no different. Effective immediately, our border is closed to all illegal traffic. Any persons or cargo found attempting to cross or that has crossed our border that can be traced to your Nation will be considered an act aggression. All trade and aid will cease. If said incursion results in the death of 1 or more US citizens Military options will be exorcised against key targets in your country. We know you are willing to do your part and would expect the same from your neighbors. We can no longer set idly by, take this opportunity to make a stand for right! And join with us!

Thank you, Pres. D-C :cool:




#6 Immigration reform:


Visa and entry requirements will be reworked to allow fully background checked individuals to become citizens. 1yr process. Speak English, Criminal history is a no go. Any criminal act once in will result in deportation and revoking of any chance. Must show allegiance to US.

All illegals will be deported, 5 year minimum wait for clean records. All with US criminal records are never allowed back.

Full sweeps for illegals, all agencies will require documents upon arrest. SS will be revamped and no duplicate #'s allowed, alerts will be issued. Common hot spots will under go random sweeps. DUI checks will require documents == (all valid Drivers License and ID will be tamper proof watermarked with US citizen. Status)

in short, round them up. Make the Govt agencies actually earn their money.



#7 Whistle blower act:

500 real dollar tax refund for information leading to arrest, verification, and deportation of an illegal. 1000 dollar immediate fine for bogus accusations


#8 over stayed Visa act:

all visa holders will be required to carry a tamper proof ID, and required to check in at regular intervals, employers will be required to do regular full sweeps for documents, as will land lords and mortgage companies, every check in date will require updated photos, fingerprints, and reporting of location.



Well this concludes a basic overview of what I think it would take to rid the country of our illegal problem.

People always say we are a nation of immigrants, well my family came through Elis island, you know what the difference is between them and the what is happening on th southern border???? My family signed the Book, and learned English!!!!!!


sorry about the length of this post, I just wish we had some strong leaders and commons sense in this country.


D-C out! :cool:

People always say we are a nation of immigrants, well my family came through Elis island, you know what the difference is between them and the what is happening on th southern border???? My family signed the Book, and learned English!!!!!! Not a bad plan D-C! The whole English thing is one of my pet peeves. But we've been doing things the same way since the arrival of the Pilgrims, ie, we speak ENGLISH, not Native American. I've said for a long time that someday, some smart Indian with a lot of money is going to find a loophole and say, "This is MY country and I want it back... NOW!"

chaikwa.

DC, I like all of what you wrote.

I would like to give everyone in the country 3 months to become legal. Make it a no hassle to get a SSN, ect. (I'm not too versed in this process... we may need longer)

At the same time, be building that fence that DC was talking about.

Once the time limit is up, forceable depertation. No quarter, no nothin but water for the trip back to Mexico.


More pain...


I like the tax refund thing. Put a bounty on illegals heads...

DC, I like all of what you wrote.

I would like to give everyone in the country 3 months to become legal. Make it a no hassle to get a SSN, ect. (I'm not too versed in this process... we may need longer)

At the same time, be building that fence that DC was talking about.

Once the time limit is up, forceable depertation. No quarter, no nothin but water for the trip back to Mexico.


More pain...


I like the tax refund thing. Put a bounty on illegals heads...

This is a trickle down economic issue. If an illegal is working for a farmer, the farmers income goes up. If he works as a framer or sheetrocker, the developer makes more profit per home. When the illegal gets hurt on the job, he goes to the hospital, he`s got no isurance so the hospital bills the government. Here in ORYGUN, this is the true story. The city of Roses is a sanctuary city so their privacy is guaranteed. They are being registered to vote by the local democractic commitee because not all will be caught or checked and we are 100% vote by mail. I have become a true minority here, over 50, white, male and an independant. May God bless and Protect us from ourselves!!!!

I can solve this issue real quick and in a hurry, this is all we have to do:

Take every individual that collects a welfare check and stick them in the fields by making it mandatory or they don't get paid. Then there will be no work for the illegals, so they wont want to come over, and the welfare recipients will be actually earning their keep. Nothing should be for free.


Tim

This is a trickle down economic issue. If an illegal is working for a farmer, the farmers income goes up. If he works as a framer or sheetrocker, the developer makes more profit per home. When the illegal gets hurt on the job, he goes to the hospital, he`s got no isurance so the hospital bills the government. Here in ORYGUN, this is the true story. The city of Roses is a sanctuary city so their privacy is guaranteed. They are being registered to vote by the local democractic commitee because not all will be caught or checked and we are 100% vote by mail. I have become a true minority here, over 50, white, male and an independant. May God bless and Protect us from ourselves!!!!



Southern Orygun is going that way fast. Thank Goodness for the time being we still have a conservitive majority here. The State is for sure on the Left Coast.

need to send them all back

I was in the DMV last week to get a new drivers license.

The place was packed with immigrants, apparantly from Mexico. And they were also all over town. Much more than usual.

The onions are about ready to be picked and when it's time there are a fleet of busses that show up with pickers. Hundreds of workers.

Meanwhile I'm having to show a CA drivers license, Social Security card, passport and anything else I can come up with to prove who I am (native born citizen with a drivers license for 40 years). Fill out forms about my driving record, medical stuff and all other licenses I've ever had. Where I was born by state, county and dates. Mothers name, etc, etc.

So I asked the woman behind the counter "how can all these folks get a license if I can barely get one?". And she said "oh, they all have social security cards and are here legally".

So, I'm wondering, why do all the migrant workers that follow crops and show up by the hundreds when it's time to pick, need a DL from Nevada, why right then and how did they get "legal"? What other ID information do they have and why is it easy for them and hard for me?

And not all immigrants that look like illegals are illegal. And not everyone that is legal is here to be a part of America.

I work with mostly Mexicans in construction and they, for the most part, are just regular guys with families that are perfectly legal. In some cases, it seems, becomming legal is not a big deal.

I hate the idea of irresponsible immigrants walking away from car wrecks without liability, going for free medical, and sending billions home to Mexico with the Mexican government actually helping them. While I try to play by the rules and am faced with a lot of expenses they don't have. As well as my government playing heavy handed with me and giving them a pass.

It's not fair to paint every immigrant with the same brush just because they look the same. Some are legal and some are not. Some are actually immigrants, some are short term legal workers, some are just here for the day and some are illegals looking for a few bucks. A good way to round up the last category would be for the INS to "visit" the Home Depot parking lots or many of the other "labor pools" around the cities. But then, after throwing them out, they'll just walk back over the border and try again. We can't very well fill up the jails with them.

The problem with an open southern border is not only migrant workers but anyone else who may want to come in can just walk in. I can't see how a fence can solve the problem though, without it being a massive 3000 mile long thing with troops stationed along the entire thing at close interval. Wow.

I can solve this issue real quick and in a hurry, this is all we have to do:

Take every individual that collects a welfare check and stick them in the fields by making it mandatory or they don't get paid. Then there will be no work for the illegals, so they wont want to come over, and the welfare recipients will be actually earning their keep. Nothing should be for free.


Tim


Heck, If we even required a passing drug test to receive a welfare check, we would save money. But THAT would probably be violating privacy or something stupid.

Im gonna leave this with two thoughts.
1. Ask any native american what they think of illegal aliens....
2. I agree they should learn english. I have been around the world and english is spoken around the world. From Kazakhstan (speaking Kazak, Russian, and English) to Norway (learning English when they start school) to Indonesia (they learn it on their own because they know English is the key to dealing with Expats which will help improve life)

I dont think what the illegals are doing (work wise) is particularly the problem. I believe it lies more in the language barrier and the criminal aspect that comes with an immigrant group.

Im gonna leave this with two thoughts.
1. Ask any native american what they think of illegal aliens....
2. I agree they should learn english. I have been around the world and english is spoken around the world. From Kazakhstan (speaking Kazak, Russian, and English) to Norway (learning English when they start school) to Indonesia (they learn it on their own because they know English is the key to dealing with Expats which will help improve life)

I dont think what the illegals are doing (work wise) is particularly the problem. I believe it lies more in the language barrier and the criminal aspect that comes with an immigrant group.

Well said. I suppose whenever you have a fringe group, unsuccesful in their own land and sneaking into another, living just out of sight and trying to get by the best they can. And at the same time only spending time with their own countrymen here, there will be problems. And the language barrier both identifies them and isolates them. They don't need to learn English to become part of America as much as they need it to get by in America. Otherwise they will stay isolated and under suspicion.

The age old idea that immigrants come here through great hardship with a commitment to this country and all it promises, is outdated and doesn't apply to many uneducated migrant workers. And the fact that there is an uncontrolled border in these times of terrorist awareness, is disconcerting. Also, in poor economic times, and fearful times, it's easy to find someone to blame.

Plus, Americans in general, are very ignorant of the rest of the world and how it works. I've travelled some too. Learned all I could about the places and returned to share what I found. Most don't know much about other places or care much to learn. From China to Mexico, beyond the the US border is a big dangerous mystery area.

Alot of interesting stuff going on here. I'd like to add a little something to the illegal problem.

We have gotten too soft. The first time the news shows a child weeping because her mommy is illegal and is being deported, we'll buckle. BUT there is a solution.

There are between 15 and 22 million illegal Mexicans in the USA, plus all the others. Let's use 20 million illegal Mexicans for this example. Right now, we allow a certain number of legal immigrants into this country every year. We shut the door, immediately and totally, to all immigration; make strong laws and enforce them. The illegals now here are required to register, without exception, within six months. Failure to register means ejection from the USA without appeal.
Once registered, the illegals would be required to learn English. They would also go through background checks- felons, nutjobs and other undesirables would get bounced.

Between the people who don't register and the people who are undesirables, we can drop the number by 25%.

Here's the good part. Remember I said the door on ANY immigration gets closed? Let's say we now allow 200,000 Mexicans to emigrate legally every year. Divide that number into the number of illegal Mexicans we have registered, and the result is the number of years the door stays closed for that particular nation. Every year, we'd have a lottery to grant citizenship to 200,000 "registered resident illegal" Mexicans, provided they demonstrate fluency in English and continue to be productive members of society. No good English? Back to the registered resident pile. Background check turns up a felony? Back to Mexico.

They'd be able to work, pay taxes, etc., but they would not be able to vote until they achieve citizenship. There would also be no "anchor babies"- any children would have their status linked to their parents. If mom is returned to Mexico, the children can go back with her, or can stay with the father. If the remaining parent acjieves citizenship, the kids get it too.

It will take a long time, but between "graduating" people into citizenship, deporting undesirables and natural attrition, we may finally get ahead of the problem of illegal immigration.

And the people in other counties who want to emigrate to the USA but found the legal doorway locked until all the registered resident illegals are assimilated? Three basic choices. 1-Settle for your "backup" country. Go there instead. 2- Wait until all the people who cut to the head of the line as illegal immigrants are processed. It'll be a while, so pack a lunch. 3- Make your country better. Everyone knows America is great, that's why folks will give everything they've got to get here, braving all manner of danger and trusting people of dubious character to ferry them into the USA. Why not turn your country into a "tribute" country; just like the guy down the street from me who couldn't afford a 1972 Hemi Cuda, he COULD afford a Barracuda and a reproduction Hemi sticker kit... yeah, you'll never actually BE America, but you and a bunch of friends might be able to come close.

Im gonna leave this with two thoughts.
1. Ask any native american what they think of illegal aliens....
2. I agree they should learn english. I have been around the world and english is spoken around the world. From Kazakhstan (speaking Kazak, Russian, and English) to Norway (learning English when they start school) to Indonesia (they learn it on their own because they know English is the key to dealing with Expats which will help improve life)

I dont think what the illegals are doing (work wise) is particularly the problem. I believe it lies more in the language barrier and the criminal aspect that comes with an immigrant group.

Native Americans left themselves wide open to unregulated immigration because of their total lack of immigration laws. We, on the other hand, have plenty of immigration statutes on the books, but we just don't use them.

The Native Americans did back then what we're doing now... nothing. If they had met the first boatloads of explorers with the violence that would soon be visited upon their own heads, the immigrant problem would've taken a different path. The Native Americans also faced another hurdle, their tribal divisiveness. Without a central seat of power, they never stood a chance.

Today, America faces a similar problem. Noone cares what is best for the country, they are too busy looking out for the interests of their own special groups. Many are willing to ignore future detriment for immediate gain. Many more are willing to be ravenous parasites, greedily destroying this country as they ensure only their futures. There is nothing to unite us.

Native Americans left themselves wide open to unregulated immigration because of their total lack of immigration laws. We, on the other hand, have plenty of immigration statutes on the books, but we just don't use them.

The Native Americans did back then what we're doing now... nothing. If they had met the first boatloads of explorers with the violence that would soon be visited upon their own heads, the immigrant problem would've taken a different path. The Native Americans also faced another hurdle, their tribal divisiveness. Without a central seat of power, they never stood a chance.

Given the VAST unkowns and dangers of the word back then, I'd say the Native Americans met the first boatloads of explorers (and many boatloads after that) with a respect and caring for their fellow man that often was not returned at all. And if they had met the first explorers with violence, I see nothing that would lead me to believe anything would have turned out differently. The palefaces would have returned, only with more men and guns, and the Indians would not have stood a chance after all. Only real difference is there would have been a whole lot fewer tribes to herd off to "reservations" like so much cattle.

Yes, they were overrun by Europeans with guns. If, after understanding the European tendency to "claim and name" entire continents, they had united with the goal of driving the Euros back to their boats, perhaps things would have gone differently. The Maoris fared much better.

The Native Americans were overrun by their lack of intertibal communication and cooperation, and their willingness to accept the foriegners into the neighborhood. Then the foriegners declared "Manifest Destiny" and the rest is history.

Today, the current crop of Americans is being overrun by foriegners who use "anchor babies" and weak, confused politicians, and who have also declared a form of "manifest destiny".

Any of the other older folks here notice that there was little complaint about illegals back when jobs were abundant?
Seems to me the public's increased dissatisfaction with illegals has followed the increased loss of jobs here in the last eight years.

Don't get the meaning of this thread wrong... My family were immigrants...

I just want them to be responsible for their bills. Not me... I already have enough mouths to feed... I'm mad because they get more free stuff and rights, yet they do not pay taxes...

We have plenty of jobs around here. Many of the retail stores and restaurants cannot find enough local help who are able or willing to work.

If legal immigrants want to come and fill these jobs, more power to them. They would simply be doing what my family did 120 years ago. But it needs to be done based on the laws and procedures we have on the books. No matter how you look at it, unregulated immigration from centuries ago is no justification for illegal immigration today.

Immigration is always a touchy subject for those who are already established in a country/region etc. Heck, many people around here don't want to see people move here from out of state, let alone from out of the country.

Isn't it funny though how our very own Gvt. makes the case that we need Immigrants to do the work, yet steadfastly refuse to create realistic Immigration/temporary visa policies to provide said workers?

If I wasn't so cynical, I would say they want a bunch of Illegals here to have someone to mother.................

Isn't it funny though how our very own Gvt. makes the case that we need Immigrants to do the work, yet steadfastly refuse to create realistic Immigration/temporary visa policies to provide said workers?

If I wasn't so cynical, I would say they want a bunch of Illegals here to have someone to mother.................

Yeah it's the same old grid lock that we fight with on everything. Everyone has their own opinion and won't compromise to move anything forward. It's the "my way or no way" attitude. If someone comes up with good ideas, the other party will oppose them in spite.

Having someone to mother? In some eyes they are a potential new voting block, so you are not too far off the mark with that statement. [laugh]

What is loudly proclaimed from the stump, real policies, and what goes on in the privacy of the voting booth, are very different. The true cause and affect of policies can never be explored because it shows the weakness of those policies. It shows that maybe the other side has a point or it makes the listener uncomfortable. Once again, compromise is a last resort, except in the real world.

For example, even though the polls show the two contenders very close or Obama ahead, watch what happens on election night. McCain will be the one with the biggest smile and we won't have to wait a month to see it. There is a lot of talk about vigor, intelligence, forward thinking and vast cheering crowds etc., but fear of the unknown will rule.

When one side says "we must reduce our dependence on oil", a listener hears, "he wants me to stop driving my truck". When one side says "we must win" and "we'll stay there for 100 years if needed" (or something to that effect), I hear "he's pandering to a scared and uninformed populace" and "he's ignoring the real battle and breaking our country in the process". When one side says they want strict constructionist judges that won't re-interpret the Constitution, on the Supreme Court, I hear the right pandering to a group that wants to force their religious views on the rest of us, by doing exactly what they say they don't want to do.

As far as the realistic immigration and immigrant policies are concerned, I agree completely, that would be nice, but dream on. The federal government is so convoluted and bogged down over immigration it's just appalling. I recently went through and am still going through a 5 year, and counting, immigration case. It's frustrating, comical, slow, and filled with pit falls. There is no clear path to the end game because of bureaucracy and design. Stir that in with confusion about what should be the policy from the top down and it's just a joke. I have made it this far because I am determined, curious, a native born citizen with good documentation, no criminal record, help from a congressman, reasonably intelligent, somewhat educated, have sufficient finances, patience and time.

Just as an example and to give you an idea of my determination, I flew to Guanzhou China just to have a meeting at the American consulate because I could not get any answers to my calls, e-mails and letters that I had sent using their system. A meeting prompted by lack of response and a meeting that could not be scheduled. When I got there they were out on holiday. They take all the Chinese and the American holidays and they only open the window to drop-ins once a week. I had arrived, and was scheduled to leave on the only two days during those two weeks that there was any chance of seeing someone helpful. Bottom line: I left a business card with someone on the other side of the bullet proof glass that could not help in any way, and flew home. The stories like this go on and on and seem funny now.