flat_lander

Ok, sit down and have a cup...this one's big.

Help me cut through the transmission BS. First the problem. I am pretty sure I have a cracked OD housing because I am leaking tranny fluid in that area. I have 100k on the clock. The first 85k was bone stock used to pull 13.5k trailer fairly frequently. Then VB went out. It was replaced with factory unit and then I acquired the truck. I've been running a Smarty Jr. for the last 15k or so. I've been putting off fixing the leaky OD for about a year by feeding it fluid. Well, now the TC is slipping/shuddering at highway speeds when getting on it to merge/pass. It has had shuttle shift since I got it at 85k, but have not worried about it yet. I would love to drop $6k to have someone fix it right if I had the $$$, but I don't. I've been reading on several forums for the last couple weeks and have some ideas, but I need someone with a lot more experience to help me cut through the BS. I'm gonna do this myself and learn, but I want to do it right the first time.

Now the fun begins. From what I've read, some people indicate I could pull tranny, replace OD housing, reassemble with new TC and VB, all problems solved because the rest of the stock parts are quite solid. That sounds great, but how realistic is it? I really don't want to do that now, and be pulling it again in another year or so to be doing the over haul. So I'm thinking I need to go ahead and do rebuild.

So I'm looking at something like the Suncoast Extreme Duty rebuild kit, ATS over-haul kit, or High Performance rebuild kit from Revmax. I called Revmax, and they said their kit was better because it included "all 3 power packs", where Suncoast and the others don't. I admit, I'm not the most knowledgeable with transmissions yet, but I am still not seeing what is extra in the Revmax kit. It actually seems to be the opposite. Suncoast/ATS include billet strut/anchor and billet accumulator piston where Revmax doesn't, so they appear to be $50 less until you buy the other stuff that isn't included in their kit. Can someone else who knows more about this stuff point out a flaw in my thinking?

VB. Mine is fairly new/low miles. Is someone else's "built" VB honestly going to be that much better than a Transgo kit? $80 vs $500 is a BIG difference for me right now.

Here's where I get fuzzy, if I get the VB improved via kit or built do you still need all the othter stuff? The fancy billet servos. Is 1 really any better than another? Superior here, DTT there, blah blah blah. And even if this is done, it appears you still need to do the GM governor solenoid upgrade. Seems to be more dimes than nickles.

I'm not even going to ask about the TC, because that usually turns into a pissing contest with people getting their feelings hurt. All I'll say is I think I need a triple disk because I would like to get slightly over sized injectors some time down the road if the budget ever allows it to complement the Jr.

Last, if you are still reading, is input shaft. What are the implications if I don't get a new one? Again, if I can save $750 for an unnecessary part then that would be awesome. But I don't want to skimp now if it will cost a whole bunch more down the road.

Sorry for the long read, but I'm at wits end, and need to do something soon. I am planning on pulling the trailer to the mountains later this summer.

Thanks

bill50cal

I will go in the order you posted.
1 the cracked OD housing is some what common and sued ones can be had. now for the bad news. it takes 2 special tools to rebuild the OD direct clutch pack and there is an 800# spring in it so you better know what your doing in that part. An HONEST trans shop should do this part for you.

2 if you have it out and you don't know it history it would not hurt to do a complete rebuild as the piston seals get hard from heat and will give trouble with cold weather and you can inspect all the clutch's and front band but I would do the rebuild kit from a quality vendor ( not getting into who ) the plastic accumulator piston is a known issue and band strut also ( hint )

3 IF you are ONLY looking at a small bump in power ( 150 200 HP ) a transgo kit is just fine IF properly installed and a single disc converter is also plenty. as for the gov solenoid the GM kit is THE way to go as the OE is also a known issue and you WILL be buying more.

4 If you don't do boosted 4x launch's and get up in power the stock input is OK.

I was in transmission business for 35 years if that helps where I am coming from.

rockcrawler304

Good advise above.
All I will add is, if you have never taken an auto trans apart, I can "almost" guarantee that it will not be right when you put it back in the truck.

And, If you plan on ANY extra power in the future and it looks like you are since you already have the Smarty, I will use the phrase "Pay me now or pay me more later" I 100% fully understand a tight money situation but with these trannys you will be doing this again if you skimp now. There is just really no way around it.

flat_lander

So with the Jr. and maybe 90 hp injectors, you think I'm still ok with a single disk? I talked to a couple shops, and they all said I'd definitely have to go triple disk. Their opinion was the base HO engine has a single almost maxed out, and ANY power adder puts it over a single capacity. Of course, that's why I'm asking to cut through the BS.

bill50cal

I have been running with an edge comp set wide open a, set of rv275 injectors and 4" exh.for 80,000 miles with a suncoast single disk and tow some heavy loads (15,000# )with NO trouble so far. I don't think just anybody;s single would hold IF they don;t increase the clutch size from stock like suncoast does and use a billet cover to stop it from distorting. one thing I seen and heard of with the triple is SOME will have a harsh unlock.

flat_lander

I will be the first to admit this one will stretch me a little, but I've always done all of my own wrenching and firmly believe no one cares more for my truck than me. That, and having 4 deductions happily moving my parts around has caused me to become quite handy and resourceful.

So to avoid the pay me later scenario, if I do full rebuild kit (new band/strut implied), Transgo VB, upgraded accumulator, servos, and GM solenoid, and new "quality" TC would that be enough on the now part? I'm figuring if I scour ebay, and other quality online vendors I can maybe get it for about ~$800 + whatever converter I end up selecting.

rockcrawler304

4 deductions I like that!!

I'm definitely not saying you can't do it. If you do it and get it right, more power to you. I also feel the same way. Nobody cares about my truck like I do so i do all my own maint.

I would just say skimp as little as possible and you will be much happier in the long run. Keep us posted.

bill50cal

if you get an ATSG book and study it REAL good along with keeping it right with you during the rebuild you should be OK. ditto on the transgo instructions. these things are not rocket science!! just keep track of how many and what comes out where and maybe take pictures as you go as there are different clutch counts depending on engine size.one thing I can not stress enough is CLEANLINESS is everything on these things and be very careful on the front drum and as I said earlier the OD direct clutch.talk to some local shops and see if one will assist on these parts of your rebuild as the special tools it will require.

flat_lander

I'll include the manual with my purchases, and have a bunch of threads already bookmarked that have pretty good step by step pictures and instructions from different sites. I have an old laptop that can be used in the garage on my workbench for side by side comparisons. I think it was "baxy" that has a step by step on VB kit, although I think it was the superior flavor instead of transgo. I'll try to document as much as I can with pictures so maybe I can have my own right up....assuming I get done. LOL

flat_lander

I went to suncoast's site to look into getting a good solid single disk, but they are discontinued. Well I've been looking around and it appears most "big" names that would be recommended have stopped producing single disks, and are offering only triple disks. The exception is DTT still has a single listed. Says it is good to 450hp. I may be thinking my britches are bigger than they are, but with just the Jr. on switch 3, I think I'd be pretty close to that, then a bit more with injectors. I think *used* 90hp tips are as much as I will do for the foreseeable future because I can't look at additional fueling, upgraded turbos, etc, but that is down the road. But then when you talk about harsher lock/unlock it makes me wonder, do I really want a triple.

Does anyone have a DTT single with light mods to give perspective?

quadman20

One thing to think is the more surfaces you have the stronger the hold less heat build up. So single gives you 2 surfaces of hold as a triple as more grabbing surfaces less heat build up longer life. So if a single holds up to 450hp you will be almost at that after your done with you future plans. So why not extend that gab for a better comfort level.

BigDogJeepin

You need to check your rear driveshaft u-joints. When they fail, the vibration cracks the OD housing.

flat_lander

I'm 98% sure that is exactly what happened. I think I am going to swap to a 1 piece, rather than replacing all the u-joints and any damage done to the carrier bearing. I'll probably save money in the long run this way.

no_6_oh_no

Thats the problem with the triples, you can't just throw one in these newer trucks and add a shift kit. The shift\lock algorithms to OD will drive you nuts on the street and heaven forbid you do it under power with a load on, it will literaly knock the dust off the headliner. You have to so fanct work in the VB to get those to NOT tear things up and NOT need a billet input shaft. If you don't know exactly what to do to make it work with the TC build then you have a problem.

A good single will handle anything you want to do on a daily basis, except race or sled pull. Thats where the triple disks shine plus really heavy towing. A Smarty Jr on performance and 50 HP injectors should not tax a DTT single, or any decent one for that matter.

You might check with Idaho Transmission Warehouse in Boise Id. Ultimate transmission used their TC builder out of Idaho Falls for some big $$ big power units. I have a single from them running at 450 HP DD and have had no issues with it other than I did not get it low enough stall and high enough efficiency.

flat_lander

Ok, so I have made some calls this morning and am more confused. I have read on here to make sure and get the Alto Red clutches and Kolene Steels time and time again because they are the best. In talking to the shops, they indicated they are using BW/Raybestos because they are more 'durable'. They indicated the Red's weren't durable, but were very good at holding (IE sticking) so they should only be used in sled trucks or race trucks. They have the Red's available but didn't want to sell them to me for my application. So are the Reds going to wear out that much faster? I don't want to be doing this every couple of years.
And with the converters, apparently they are no longer able to source the high quality material like they once did for single disks. They did not recommend anything other than a triple if you towed more than 3,000 pounds. And yes, that is a 3 with only 3 zeros. My minivan was rated for 3,500. LOL WTH?!?