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cpermd
10-30-2002, 08:06 AM
Will it work as a pusher to the lift pump?<br>Why or why not?<br>Seems like I have read it won't but I can't find any info.<br>TIA<br>cpermd

admin
10-30-2002, 10:12 AM
What are the specs on this pump? Do you have a link to it?

CMN_NOT_STROKN
10-30-2002, 11:09 PM
According to the Holley website:<br> Low pressure pumps that are perfect for NOS wet system pump <br> New tumble polished billet look <br> New lower housing casting for enhanced fuel flow <br> Improved design for street/strip applications <br> Distinctive &quot;BLUE&quot; logo <br> Flows 110 GPH (free flow) <br> Flows 70 GPH at 9 PSI <br> Pressure is pre-set at 14 PSI <br> Includes P/N 12-803 fuel pressure regulator <br> Motor draws only 3 Amps current <br> 7-1/2 Amp fuse recommended <br> Provides constant fuel flow with no pulsation <br> Has externally accessible pressure relief valve <br> Rotor/Vane pump design is more tolerant of contaminated fuels <br> Weighs only 3 lbs. <br> Includes mounting bracket <br> Repair kits are readily available <br> Can be serviced from either pump end or brush cap end <br> NOT compatible with alcohol or methanol fuels <br> Use of safety shut-off switch, P/N 12-810, strongly recommended <br> Not designed or recommended for use with fuel injection systems <br><br>I have used these on alot of 500HP Mustangs that I have built and have never really had a problem feeding them. What are the specs for the stock lifter pump? I would think it would work fine for a booster, but not sure on a replacement. What do y'all think?

cpermd
10-30-2002, 11:26 PM
It looked real good to me til that last sentence.<br>That is why I asked,and regulator included.<br>Seems like it should work to feed the lift pump.<br>cpermd

10-31-2002, 12:03 AM
What about the Holley Black? Sheep Rod was pushing it a while back on another forum. It's compatible with a variety of fuels; the Blue isn't.

GP

CMN_NOT_STROKN
10-31-2002, 10:38 AM
Well what I think they mean is they won't work on gasser EFI. The EFI systems on a gasser are in the 40-50 psi range where ours is in the 10-15 psi range. I think that you could just run it without the regulator since it is internally regulated for 14 psi and that should be fine for us. What do you guys think? These pumps can be had for around $100.

cpermd
10-31-2002, 12:09 PM
I have been looking at this and thinking about it for a month.<br>I think I will start looking for one on ebay.<br>cpermd

chuck3
10-31-2002, 05:18 PM
I don't understand why everyone wants to have a pusher that goes to the lift pump? Why not just get a pusher that will have the right psi and flow and go to the injection pump, eliminate the problem pump instead of adding to it. Just MHO. ???

scottrod
10-31-2002, 07:35 PM
Gotta agree with chuck3. I'm going to junk it all and go with a Holley Black, bigger fuel lines and banjo's. Rod has some good advice on the stuff.

Duelin
10-31-2002, 09:47 PM
(I havent checked my pressure yet ---I'm gonna!)<br><br>As I understand it ? The lift pump seems to fail quickly on some units. <br>Because it is (sucking) fuel from the tank? Is it a rotary vane pump? Is it experiancing cavitation? Has any body pulled a bad one apart to see what is causing the failures?<br> I have a 12 v. AC fuel pump on the shelf, leftover from a previous project . It states,* do not mount over 24 in from the bottom of the tank, and mount as CLOSE to the tank as possible.* It is only 3 &amp; 1/2 lb pressure, but as a pusher to the primary, would it&quot;s extra pressure , perhaps? help forstall the failure of the lift pump . OR - should I remove lift pump and just mount it back by the tank?? <br> I know from experiance that if there is much restriction in the suction line for a pump, it undergoes cavitation and leads to early failure. and (this Dodgeup) / hookup , reeks of some of the installations I have seen on equipment over the years.<br> I HATE Plastic lines . It looks like there are some down there.

CMN_NOT_STROKN
11-01-2002, 01:19 AM
Does anyone know what the fuel delivery requirements are for the injection pump? I would love to REPLACE the junk lift pump but I can't find the specs of the stock pump? Am I looking in the wrong places? Is this HIGHLY guarded info? I would think that a Holley blue or black would provide enough fuel for a moderately modified truck...say up to 500 HP.

11-01-2002, 03:55 AM
For a very good discussion of this subject look here (http://dieselram.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000491) (a thread on another forum. Be sure and read what Rod Snaith of Wildcat says).

Summary of the thread:
Most lift pumps fail when the internal regulator goes. The regulator fails because of excessive back pressure in the run between the lift pump and the VP44. The long draw from the tank is only a secondary reason for failure. A secondary &quot;pusher&quot; pump at the tank may stress the lift pump occasionally by pushing fuel that the VP44 on the other side will not accept. What's needed to replace the stock Carter lift pump is a high volume (better than 75 gph), low pressure unit that does not have an internal regulator and will allow the VP44 to do all of the regulating, including bypass and fuel return.

Rod says the Holley Black seems to fit best, and he's considering adding it to Wildcat's inventory. You may want to ask him -- he's Push Rod on this forum. Hope that helps.

Finally, high-flow banjo bolts make a BIG difference in lift pump survivability, whatever the pump/pumps you're using.


GP

BigBlue
11-01-2002, 03:29 PM
Alright. I've had enough of this crappy lift pump. Mines got 785 miles exactly on it and it has dropped from 13.6 at idle to 11.6. WOT went from 6.6 to 3.4. This is with the high flow bolts installed and a new filter (it's also got 785 miles on it). ALL of them. And there are no leaks anywhere. So, what I'm reading here is to replace the stock pump with a Holley Black and to mount that pump back by the tank. Correct? That should completely eliminate any problem with the fuel supply on these trucks, right? How about replacing the fuel line with some 3/8&quot; inside dia. to help flow even more? I figure that if I'm going to be there replacing stuff, I might as well get it set up now for when I get ready to hit 12's. Who carries these pumps and all of the neccesary hardware (instructions, wiring, connectors) to install it? How hard is it to install?

WeirCummin
11-02-2002, 05:34 AM
I have been useing the Holley 815 (black) for 18 months now and it was used when I put it on. It's mounted back @ the tank and I run -AN6 lines all the way to the VP44. <br><br>Dean

chuck3
11-02-2002, 08:48 AM
<br>I have been useing the Holley 815 (black) for 18 months now and it was used when I put it on. It's mounted back @ the tank and I run -AN6 lines all the way to the VP44. <br><br>Dean<br> <br><br><br> Good info Dean, Welcome to the site.<br> ~chuck. :)

wick
11-04-2002, 03:36 PM
<br>Will it work as a pusher to the lift pump?<br>Why or why not?<br>Seems like I have read it won't but I can't find any info.<br>TIA<br>cpermd<br><br><br><br>All holley fuel pumps are junk. they will cause you more heart ack than anything. BG's are the best. I have ran a BG fuel system for the last year on my Nova not a single problem and no leaks at all. Plus the pumps are higher quality

Jetpilot
11-04-2002, 04:27 PM
Guys,<br><br>I eliminated the stock lift pump on my truck over a year ago. the first pump used was a Mallory 4140M mounted on the frame rail just below the pickup from the fuel tank. This setup lasted about 9K miles and then went dead. I searched for other alternatives as several of us using this pump have all seen failures.<br><br>The pump I am currently using is a PE-4200 (http://www.productengr.com/PE_4300.htm)<br>So far (about 5K miles) the pump is performing well. The pump comes with a 2 year warranty and the manufactorers know and understand how we are using this pump. I am NOT ready to say this is the solution for our lift pump woes, but its looking good so far. There is a member on the TDR site that has been running this pump for several months longer than I and he is still pleased. <br><br>If anyone is interested Advanced Diesel Technology (http://www.smokindiesel.com/) Sells just the pump or a complete kit with all the lines and hardware.<br><br>Just thought I would let everyone know.....<br><br>Doug

11-04-2002, 07:59 PM
Hey Doug, are you running the PE-4200 on a street application or a strip application? Or both? (Saw your dyno figures. Curious as to how setup like that might affect things.)

GP

Jetpilot
11-04-2002, 08:14 PM
GP,<br><br>My truck is a daily driver..... I drive it to the strip, race, and drive home.

BigBlue
11-07-2002, 11:06 AM
''Blue'' Max-Pressure Pump<br>Perfect for ''race'' applications and is pre-set to approximately 14 psi. Flows 70 gph while maintaining 9 psi line pressure. Free-flow capacity is 110 gph. Includes Holley regulator, 510-12-803 and check valve and filter screen. 3/8'' NPT ports. Not for use with alcohol. <br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> <br> ''Black'' Pro-Series Pump<br>High output fuel pump provides constant fuel flow with no pulsation. Pre-set to 14 psi. and flows 120 gph while maintaining 9 psi line pressure. Free-flow capacity is 140 gph. Includes mounting bracket and externally accessible relief valve. 3/8'' NPT ports. Compatible with alcohol. <br><br><br>Thought yall might like to see the comparison between the two.

TxDieselKid
11-07-2002, 02:49 PM
There was a thread the other day on some other forum about the Holley Blue pump. One member said that they have used them for years in off-road vecihles and that they only last about 2 years. Nothing was said of the black pump however.<br><br>I think Doug has the answer with the PE4200.<br><br>Andrew

BigBlue
11-07-2002, 03:26 PM
But for those of us who don't have the money for a P-Pump conversion (I'm assuming your talking about that), the Black seems to be a good alternative. Summit also strongly recommended a fuel cut off safety switch. This switch ran off oil pressure. What happens is that as long as their is oil pressure in the switch, it will be on, as soon as their is no oil pressure (engine stalls or something), the switch cuts the pump off.

TxDieselKid
11-07-2002, 07:20 PM
<br>I'm assuming your talking about that<br><br><br>the 4200... (http://www.productengr.com/PE_4300.htm)<br><br>http://www.productengr.com/images/Product%20photos/Fuel%20pumps/P0000368.jpg

4 Tons-o-Fun
11-07-2002, 08:35 PM
I'm using the Holley Blue feeding the stock lift pump. Only about 4K miles so far but working good and doesn't drop below 10psi.

danlit
11-07-2002, 09:52 PM
Our pumps are fine there just in the wrong place.<br>Move it near the tank and you won`t have anymore problems<br> Danny

Jetpilot
11-07-2002, 10:41 PM
danlit,<br><br>Our pumps are fine for stock or mildly bombed trucks. But if you are running a highly modified truck the OEM pump will not keep up with the demand.<br><br>Doug

TxDieselKid
11-08-2002, 01:44 AM
<br>danlit,<br><br>Our pumps are fine for stock or mildly bombed trucks. But if you are running a highly modified truck the OEM pump will not keep up with the demand.<br><br>Doug<br><br><br><br>I agree with Doug here, he didn't get to 750+hp by not knowing this stuff. :)

BigBlue
11-08-2002, 10:59 AM
I need a pump that can handle 750+hp. I'm getting the truck in the 12's and I might as well start with the &quot;life support&quot; systems of these things and work my way up.

98rammer
11-08-2002, 01:00 PM
<br>I agree with Doug here, he didn't get to 750+hp by not knowing this stuff. :)<br><br><br>what do you mean? all he needs to dois get to 500hp by means of injectors, boxes, etc. and then get the paw shift knob and the blue sweater. BAM! 750hp! ;D<br><br>Tom

scottrod
11-08-2002, 01:15 PM
what do you mean? all he needs to dois get to 500hp by means of injectors, boxes, etc. and then get the paw shift knob and the blue sweater. BAM! 750hp! <br><br>I went with the full race seat covers- head and shoulders above the sweater IMHO :o

TxDieselKid
11-08-2002, 03:32 PM
Anyone know what Nowel uses? ???<br><br>Last I heard he had a Mallory, but surly he has since changed. <br><br>BigBlue,<br>run 12's huh? Good luck to ya............in the lottory that is!!! :P<br><br>Andrew<br><br><br><br><br><br>wait a second, your too young to even play that.... :P :P :P<br><br> ;) ;) ;)

BigBlue
11-08-2002, 04:13 PM
TX, I'll be running 12's by the time I graduate college. If not 12's, then for sure 13's.