PaulDaisy

Ok, here is the report from my first towing experience with this set of mods, in the mountains.
The trailer was packed about the same as always, with the exception of my DW forgetting some extra parts of her upper body wardrobe (did not affect the weight but got me very excited ). The total weight therefore was close to 17,600 lbs. The weather was nasty: 95* and sunny. I started with VanAaken set to a 50% level (I did find the three position switch after all) as I figured full power will be too much. My trip started at 5,700 feet elevation and went up from there. I immediately noticed that engine temperature raises to a tad over 190 even on the slightest of uphills, essentially towing level on I-25 southbound. There was indeed more power, I was able to go in 5th gear all the time with traffic slowing down on the interstate but the temperature would creep up, so I had to back down.
Pulling off of I-470 onto 285 and heading up a narrow, winding steep road I started seeing a smoke trail while just driving, and temperatures started creeping up even more. I pulled over and turned off the VanAaken box using the 3-position switch. This essentially eliminated the smoke except when pulling out of a traffic light (that I think is inevitable) and the temperature dropped down a little. Air temps were still in the 90s and elevation was now 7,500-8,000 feet, 5-7% climb. I had to downshift and stay in 3rd gear, I was afraid to pull up in fourth.
After the road flattened out more or less, staying in 4th became easy and a lot of time I stayed in 5th. The entire time in the South Park valley I stayed in 5th at 65 mph and the engine temperature was 180*.
To summarize:
1) A box does more harm than good towing in hot thin air, and VA is a conservative box I heard.
2) The injectors alone allowed me to pull all the way up Kenosha pass westbound in 4th gear easily, no smoke at all; engine temperature barely crept above 190* and it was 75* at the pass. With RV275s I had to downshift into 3rd.
3) A lot of time downshifting and bringing RPM up to 2300 caused more heat than staying in higher gear at 1750 rpm. Must have to do with turbo drive pressures going up at higher rpm.
4) Fuel mileage was 12.6 mpg westbound, which is steeper and had elevation gain. I have not filled up yet to know the return trip mileage. Driving around over there at 7,700 ft, not towing with VA on 50% I got 19.4 mpg. Putting VA on full power causes smoke on all accelerations so I turned it down.
5) On 1.6s alone, there was essentially no smoke at all except on hard acceleration (well, there was some when my DW accidentally put the truck in 5th gear instead of 3rd going 20 mph - this caused a Mustang convertible behind us fall back about 1,500 ft).
I need a pyrometer! Engine temperature is a guide I am sure but I am nervous about what the EGTs are doing. Maybe I was too conservative and could have pulled more in high gear. More likely, it was HOT all throughout but there is really nothing one can do about that short of a nice set of twins = $$$.

jmd025

I think your conclusion on #3 would have been different if you were reading a pyro. The higher rpms really help keep the EGTs down.

Good summary, I am ready for some 1.6s!

2500Ram

Agree, get a pyro and you'll be amazed 2700rpm vs 2000rpm and the exhaust temp pulling a grade. I live in the springs and my folks live in Bailey up 285 and that area around windy point is no joke pulling a load. I really like my ez for towing but only go as fast as my pyro allows. I'm really considering some injectors in the near future but afraid of egt's at altitude. Totally stock at a takeoff I can put out a good puff of smoke. Nothing wrong with smoke but I personally don't like it.

HOHN

Good report, Paul!

Now get a pyro on there first thing! No need for anything super fancy, just a basic Autometer will work well.

The reason the VA was causing you to run higher engine temps is because of the advanced timing. Advancing the timing keeps more heat in the engine, dumping less out the pipe. Running stock timing drops temps two ways: letting more heat escape from the exhaust, thus driving the turbo harder which supplies a little more air to the engine.

High elevation towing calls for no timing advance, imo.

Higher RPM is generally better for both engine temps and EGT, so I'm a little intrigued that you were see cooler temps at low rpm.

Justin

rebal

I dont see that with my set up.I think paul is right about the drive pressure If Im running heavy on a hot day high RPMs make my pyro zoom past 1300* if I keep it down around 2000-2300 im running cool but also lugging will make egts climb!

PAUL! get a PYRO its the safest way to see what the engines doing. your EGTs can be way up there before your water temp changes. I would hate to see you melt a piston .mach 1.6s are easily capable of this.

DRD

I agree with Rebal. I just got back from a trip and one hill is 7-8% for several miles. 2200-2300 was all I could pull. If I reved higher EGT's would take off with coolant close behind. I just kept it slow, 2200 RPM or so with EGT's about 1100-1150 and 28-30 Psi boost. I guess if I want to go faster there's a turbo in my future.

Big Blue24

Paul, did you adjust the wastegate on your stock turbo to allow more boost? More air through the engine will really help egt's, power, and coolant temps.

If you're still running at the stock 20 psi, you're leaving a lot on the table!

qzilla

Just my opinion but, I believe you want timing advance, especially with injectors, at higher elevation.

The VA box does timing AND fuel on even the middle setting. Their midset is a little different than most and the way they do switch settings is that they take their MAX and then divide it up based on how many levels they want to give to the user. So in your case you have 0%-50%-100% that is fuel, timing and anything else they might do. I believe the added fuel is the cause for the extra heat.

Now, I agree with Hohn to an extent about timing raising engine temps but, in your case I would think that timing only would not do the same. You should have plenty of fuel.

What the timing will do is increase your power stroke and with injectors it will cause the ECM to call for less fuel stretch (less fuel). So by injection the fuel earlier you have a longer, more efficient power stroke enabling you to make more power with less fuel.

At altitude this typically translates to lower EGT's because the fuel burn is longer and you have a higher efficiency of burn (aka less black smoke). In this case it is more important than usualy because there is less air there. That is why you need to use the least amount of fuel possible to make the desired power in the thin air.

I also agree with everyone else that lugging the engine will work it considerably more than letting it rev. 2500-3000 rpms is not going to hurt anything, you will have more efficient power based on the drive pressure caused by rpm and more boost as a by product of the higher drive pressure.

And lastly, you really need a pyro to see what is going on..........Is that an echo I hear???

Good write up though!

Big Blue24

Paul, what Quad is really saying is you need to try his newer technology XZT+ with a timing only mode that will let you fine tune your tow rig.

rebal

I agree with quad although I dont have an xzt (yet) I run a catcher and its got the timing in it so I really dont see an egt increase with elevation change it seems to run consistent from what i can tell at sea level or in the mountains .and I can only talk 8500' thats as high as I have been .next year im headed to Colorado to see if i can go higher

as far as boost with the 1.6s you should be able to hit 35 psi easy with your stock turbo I hit 38-40 if i push it

OH 1 more thing ....get a pyro

jmd025

Rebal and DRD

What I call HIGH rpms while towing is 2300 or so (about what you guys are talking about running).

My Egts are definately higher towing at 1750 up a grade in OD, versus 2300 up a grade in direct drive.

I didnt mean stick her at 3300 uphill and watch her run nice and cool! LOL

PaulDaisy

Did I hear, Get a Pyro?
Points well taken folks! I would like to try a timing only box to see if it would help, maybe I will get a XZT+ or the A-box with the pyro built in, heh Quad?..
Regarding temperatures and RPMs, this is what was happening. Without the pyro and having read that keeping RPMs in the 2100-2200 range is the safest for EGTs, I would shift into the gear that allowed me to keep the rig going without lugging, meaning I could accelerate if I wanted to. So if I did and the RPMs would go to 2400, the water temperature would start going up. If I upshifted at that point (usually that would mean going from 3rd to 4th unfortunately), the huge gap in gearing would not allow me to accelerate and I would keep the engine on the borderline of lugging near 1750 RPM, at which point the water temperature would stabilize at whatever it happened to be at that time, usually well above 190 but still in the white zone. I would get nervous that I am raising the EGTs now and downshift, and back off to 2100 again in the 3rd, meaning I am going like 40 mph now. Water temps would stay the same then.
So in the end I wished I had a gear splitter. Really, there should be a gear between 3rd and 4th - but you all know that.
My conclusion is, I LOVE the injectors. More so than a box. They give me power throughout the entire range that is usable, and even though I still downshift to keep the temps in check, the ease of driving has increased.
Thinking about the sizing, I may in the end agree with Rip who suggested Mach 1 would be probably the best; but if you unhook that 10k# trailer, them M1.6 are so much fun to drive!
And - I did not touch the wastegate. That is something I need to look into, I don't even know what boost the truck is making. I heard the stock one will give up to 26 psi? The VA does boost fooling all the time.
So, let me see... I need a pyro , a boost gauge and a XZT+ is that what I am hearing? You guys are too funny.

jerome

Great write up. I have been following your high altitude reports and found them very interesting. I live at 4300 feet and when I hook up the fifth wheel (10,000 lbs)I am always heading for higher ground. I have the quad xzt+ and have found if I have it on both fuel and timing I can see 1300 degrees pretty quick on long climbs. It also shudders/surges when it it pouring the coal to it. I can keep the egt's (and eliminate shuddering) in check by switching to timing only so I would have to agree it is the fueling heating you up. I would like bigger injectors but feel I would need more turbo to run them when towing.

Mike D

My thinking is the same as Hohn's with regards to timings. Prolonging the pistons to high egts with elevated timing is not to my liking. I would rather see higher egts on the qauge from reduced timing and not worry about the pistons. Your injectors are going to give you some mechanical advance anyway.

qzilla

How do you know his egt's were high? That is presumptious. Not to mention if you burn the fuel more efficiently in the cylinder your egt's will be lower. Yes you have a few thousandths of a second longer burn period but, with a longer power stroke you require less fuel.

Now, if the injectors are going to dump X amount of fuel regardless then he probably needs to look at other things like a Turbo or his pistons are in jeapordy regardless of no timing or lots of timing.

And no I am not saying run out and buy an XZT+ box. I was just giving you an insight of why the VA box caused the smoke and possibly the heat. In reality if you are towing heavy and already have injectors you would be much better served buying a turbo and boost fooler.