Madoco

2001, 2500 with only 48k miles on it - broke down in one of the worst places on my way home tonight. >

I was at ~ 60 mph on the highway, running fine then truck bucked/surged a few times and engine quit. Felt like it ran out of fuel, but the gauge was a hair under a 1/4 and the dash light wasn't on. - Had to have it towed to the Dealer.

Checked the fuel filter and it was getting fuel....

Any suggestions on possible causes????????

Not a real big Dodge Fan Tonight......

Thanks for any help, Matt

DODGE4X4

When I've run out of fuel I've still had fuel in my water/fuel canister. When the truck gets low on fuel it doesn't take much for it to suck air and kill the truck. I would fill up with diesel and crack the #1 injector and crank on it. When you hear it trying to start stop cranking and close the injector. Make sure you are keeping the pedal on the FLOOR while you are doing this. I've run out 4 times now and I still had fuel in the tank it just sloshes and make the truck suck air. Once you get the truck started keep it at a high Idle in tell the truck sounds normal again. I hope this take care of your problem. I will bet money this is your problem.

DODGE4X4

Well what is wrong with you truck ???

Madoco

Just heard from the DLR - They spent two hours on it this afternoon and haven't finished troubleshooting but are leaning towards the injector pump. Should have a more definitive answer tomorrow.

BTW - Would this be covered under the "cummins" warranty? If so, will they reimburse the tow bill?

docmic

It's called a "transfer pump". It's a block-mounted pump that moves the fuel from the tank to the engine. It's the wrong pump for the purpose, and it was used in the 2001 only. There was also a recall for faulty pumps, but they weren't real noisy about getting the word out to the dealers. Nevertheless, that's the problem. Notice, it happens only after the engine is warmed up, so when the mechanic at the shop gets into it, he can't find a problem. He must take it out on the street to "make it fail" before they will put in a new transfer pump.

quantrill88

docmic, what pump are u talking about? dodge calls the lift pump on 24 valve motors a "transfer pump" but i have never heard of a recall on them (even though they are troublesome :-)

know how u feel though Madoco....mine did almost the exact same thing to me last spring, died on my way to school right where my cell phone didnt get service :

chances are its your lift pump (a.k.a. transfer pump) which feeds fuel from the tank to the injector pump (vp44)

if ur lift pump was bad long enough it could take out the injector pump

as to the warranty question, yes it will be covered under the cummins engine warranty as long as it has not been voided by mods


hope this helps
jeff

docmic

Sorry you didn't notice the recall, but it was there in the fall of '01 and on into 2002, right after they began using the "transfer pump" to move the fuel. A fuel pump in the tank "pushes" the fuel through the line to the engine, but this transfer pump is at the block, not in the tank, and it was supposed to suck the fuel from the tank and then, since there would occur a surplus on the engine side of the pump, the fuel would be pushed forward. And they do work...most of them. Mechanics can't find the failure when the pump is cold, so they wind up replacing fuel filters to avoid "throwing parts at the problem". It occurs only "in action" and only when the pump is warm. Doc'

quantrill88

never knew that, only blockmounted pumps i was aware were ones like the Holley Black or the Product Engineering pump.

not doubting u in any way, just interested in info i didnt know

DODGE4X4

[quote author=Madoco link=board=13;threadid=22319;start=0#msg209006 date=1068676515]
Just heard from the DLR - They spent two hours on it this afternoon and haven't finished troubleshooting but are leaning towards the injector pump. Should have a more definitive answer tomorrow.

BTW - Would this be covered under the "cummins" warranty? If so, will they reimburse the tow bill?
[/quote]

Yes it should be under warranty

Madoco

Just got off the phone again with the DLR (11:00am) and they did diagnose the problem to be the "injector pump" but have to order the part. Should be installed and back to me tomorrow????

Service Mgr. wasn't sure the tow bill would be covered but will speak to the Warrante Manager.... Anyone know who to contact to pursue this further - in the event they come back with a NO.

Anyhow - Thanks for all your input and I'll let ya'll know what happens.

MCummings

docmic,

The transfer pump, or lift pump, was used from '98.5 to '02. Early units were very prone to failure, and the pump was revised several times. There was no Recall per se but, dealers were told that the pumps were known to be faulty, and highly suspect. A Hot start problem is 90% caused by a dying injection pump, called VP44. The other 10% is usually a small air leak.

There is no fuel pump in the tank on the Diesel trucks. From '89-'04 there is no pump in the fuel tank.

The 12V motors had a mechanical pump ('94-'98.4) for the transfer pump, and in stock form put out about 30PSI @ WOT.

The 24V motors have an electrical pump ('98.5-'02)that should not go below 8PSI, and should idle near 15PSI.

The ISB-e 24V's, I think have the same pump as the older 24V's, but, the unit is different, and intigrated with the CP3 injection pump.

The transfer pump should be replaced when replacing the injection pump. The transfer pump is usually the cause of an injection pump failure (unless contaminated with bad/dirty fuel)

I don't think they will foot the tow bill, but atleast they will foot the $3,000 replacement of the injection pump.

Hope you get that puppy back runnin' again. Now, be sure to watch your fuel pressures (periodic checking at minimum) to keep from breaking down again.
15PSI Idle, no less than 8PSI WOT, unless BOMBed, then you will need to pursue other means of keeping Fuel pressure up (bigger lines, another pump, etc)

Hope this helps,
Merrick

Madoco

One injector pump later and the trucks back and running like a champ. The $2,800 repair charge was covered under the Cummins' Warrantee and the DLR is still getting more info on covering the $109 tow bill.

Thanks again for your input.

Matt
8)

MCummings

Glad to know you are back on the road.

If the dealer doesn't pick up the tow bill, think of the $109 as your deductable. (Atleast it'll help ease the pain :P )

Merrick

James White

Thank you for the information. Now I know what to do.
bigpops

jrs_dodge_diesel

One other thing to keep your lift pump and injector pump happy and working. On youe fuel guage, treat the 1/4 tank mark as the empty mark. Try not to let it go to far past 1/4. Glad you are back on the road.