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View Full Version : Will I have enough truck.


PHONSE
02-22-2003, 01:37 PM
Well I just had a friend haul my NEW fifth wheel trailer to the TA CAT scales. Are these scales correct? My loaded trailer weighs in at 11,700 lbs, with a pin weight of 2,340 lbs. I am about to purchase a new 3500 2x4, SRW, 373 rear end, 48RE, 5.9 HO ENGINE . QUAD-CAB., LONG BED. The GVWR for this truck is 9,9OO LBS. I'm over this by 200 lbs. Everything else is under weight, GCWR, AND MAX. WEIGHT OF TRAILER. Do I have enough truck ?? I really don't want a DUALLY. And why is it that DODGE uses 25 % of loaded trailer weight to figure their KING PIN WEIGHT. When everyone else uses anywhere from 15 to 20 %. Are they trying to sell bigger trucks to the R -V ING PUBLIC or are they afraid their ( GVWR's ) for these trucks don't match up to FORD OR GM'S??? [undecided]

Luke S
02-22-2003, 01:49 PM
Speaking from experience, I'd sure go with 4.10's instead of 3.73's. It really pulls a lot better when you have the auto. ::)

jsr21
02-22-2003, 04:03 PM
And why is it that DODGE uses 25 % of loaded trailer weight to figure their KING PIN WEIGHT. When everyone else uses anywhere from 15 to 20 %. Are they trying to sell bigger trucks to the R -V ING PUBLIC or are they afraid their ( GVWR's ) for these trucks don't match up to FORD OR GM'S??<br><br><br><br> Huh?

03quadduallyho
02-22-2003, 08:25 PM
I'd get the dually. Yes you will have plenty of gear, plenty of power and a great truck. ( my 3.73 rear end with the 6 speed is awesome, use every gear empty or full don't need it empty) starts off like a rabbit full and heavy, great! The dually will get you a lot flatter turning towing that huge beast. I blew a tire with my old F--D crew cab dually 6.9er and hardly even noticed, I drove into the next town before I even worried about changing it. I had the guy at the tire shop change it for me. Single for that much weight is just right at the max and I chose to play it safe. I know a guy who blew a tire on a corner towing and ended upside down in the ditch trailer and truck. I saw the results laying in the ditch and was forever a dually kind of guy. I also like the 3.73 because I get now right at 21 mpg running to work at 70 mph. I got 20 the first tankful. Measured, no fuel gauge computer in mine!

Casey Balvert
02-23-2003, 07:34 AM
<br>And why is it that DODGE uses 25 % of loaded trailer weight to figure their KING PIN WEIGHT. When everyone else uses anywhere from 15 to 20 %. Are they trying to sell bigger trucks to the R -V ING PUBLIC or are they afraid their ( GVWR's ) for these trucks don't match up to FORD OR GM'S??<br><br><br><br> Huh?<br><br><br>Probably because the 25% figure is closer to reality. My 11,500 pound fiver has a pin weight of just under 3,000 pounds. Do the math. FWIW

Chester
02-23-2003, 10:16 AM
I've just bought a 3500 dually but have been pulling my 5er with my 2500 5.9HO with 4.10 gears. The 2500 set this way has a towing capacity of 13,500.When I was testing the new 3500 with the 373 gears on the 6 speed I found it just didn't have the grunt my 2500 with the 410 rear had. And that's with the new HO putting out 50lbs more torque than my 2500. So when I ordered my 3500 I got the 4.10 gears. Also with that pin weight you need a dually. The extra stability is worth the extra truck mass. Good luck....

moss2904
02-23-2003, 03:03 PM
I have a trailer that is in the same ballpark as yours.<br> I have pulled it with a srw F350 and a 3500 Dodge dually.<br> My Ford had the same gvwr of 9900 lbs. It weighed in at 7050 lbs or so with full fuel, me and a hitch in it. I don't know the empty weight of a Dodge 3500 SRW but I assume it weighs more than the Ford? Are you sure you are over your gvwr? The Ford srw F-350 would not be over with those numbers.<br>FWIW Randy

Casey Balvert
02-23-2003, 08:31 PM
With 3.73 Axle Ratio [i] You Can Tow 13950 lbs2
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) [i] = 9900 lbs
Payload [i] = 3020 lbs1
Curb Weight [i] = 6877 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 3890 / 2987 lbs
GAWR [i] Front/Rear = 4750 / 6150 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) [i] = 21000 lbs

The above is copied from the Dodge Trailer Towing calculator. Using the trailer you have just purchased with a pin weight of 2340 pounds, this leaves you a payload of 680 pounds. Allowing 100 pounds for the hitch and that drops to 580 pounds. Allow 350 pounds for two humans and you are at 230 pounds left over for payload. That payload gets eaten up pretty fast. Good thing your pin weight is relatively light. DC's estimated pin weights are general estimates only. Your actual pin weight is what counts. That truck will do the job but it doesn't leave you a lot of payload.

PHONSE
02-24-2003, 06:57 PM
balvert, You forgot the weight for 35 gals. of fuel, 35 gals. @ = ?? Thanks [eyecrazy]

richard
02-26-2003, 06:45 PM
35 gals fuel @ 7 lbs/gal = 245 lbs, you are 15 lbs overweight, better eat a light lunch [laugh] [laugh]

pappyman
02-26-2003, 07:05 PM
Just let 15 lbs of air outta the tires and you'll be ok... :o [laugh] :o [laugh]

Haulin_in_Dixie
02-26-2003, 10:54 PM
Properly set up a tandem tractor pulling as tandem trailer is 50% (trailer) kingpin weight, a single axle tractor is 25% and a tag along is 10%. So to handle properly your truck should have 25% on the kingpin. Many RV's use less but at the expense of proper handling. When you get the truck hooked up get to a scale and weigh the pull axle and make sure that the tires are heavy enough for the load. My truck has an 8800 pound gvwr and I pulled the 30,000 gross loads for many thousands of miles with it. But used 14 ply rated tires for the job. Never had a problem. Later I went to dual wheels but I run sometimes over 7,000 rear axle weights. That is around 5000 king pin weight. I put the dual wheels on at 126,000 and now have 176,000 on it.

driver
02-27-2003, 04:29 AM
8) Curb weight normally includes a full tank of fuel and all<br>other vehicle fluids.. and it includes 150 lbs for a driver.

GrandpasRam
02-28-2003, 02:00 PM
In the long run you'll be happier with the dually - better wieght distribution in cross-winds, and the added safety of still having a good tire when 1 blows out. I never thought I would like a dually, but had no choice when I bought my '99. As time went on, I got the 5th wheel, and found the value of having a dually when thowing 5er's. The dually has really grown on me, and I really like the better handling when towing. The SRW is fine for tongue-pull trailers, but I would never again want to tow a 5er wothout the DRW. FWIW. 8)

Poor_Furd_Owner
03-01-2003, 08:43 AM
Interesting comments so far. Let me throw this in:<br><br>My +- 8000# Furd as it sits REALLY should be a dually. But I need SRW so my Knaphiede Service body has an honest flat floor of roughly 4x8. The service bodies for duallies have wheel humps mucking up the floor.<br><br>I don't tow 5ers or GNs with this setup... but do pull an approx. 4000# loaded tow behind tank trailer.<br><br>I have blow rear tires twice (neither while towing). One Kumho radial, and one Discount Tire branded radial. Never had the slightest issue of control.<br><br>But now have bucked up and got Michelin LTX 235/85 - 16 on it and haven't had ANY tire issues in 50K.<br><br>So if you DO go SRW.... DO NOT SCRIMP ON TIRES!!!!!!<br><br>Lastly. My buddy has '91 and '01 ('91 D-250 Reg.cab SRW) and ('01 2500 SLT Quad cab SRW). Diesels. He pulls heavy boats, car trailers etc. We recently towed a car trailer up to Chicago with the '01, loaded it up with MINIMUM 5000# (more likely 6000 - 6500#) (with probably another 1K in the bed) and towed it back. NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER. And we had some pretty serious tongue weight too!<br><br>Are you clear as mud yet?<br><br>

PHONSE
03-01-2003, 01:36 PM
DRIVER, Curb weight ( includes ) full tank of fuel ( plus )150lbs. for the driver. ??? Are you certain on that ? Anyone else have a thought on this to help me. THANKS

JImbo1
03-02-2003, 01:14 AM
Will a 1996 Dodge 3500 5.9 turbo diesel , 5 speed, dually, 12 valve, stock, pull a 42' 5th wheel about 15,500 pounds. What would be the max towing without going :) :) crazy. Need to know..please help...Thanks..Jim

Casey Balvert
03-02-2003, 06:34 AM
<br>DRIVER, Curb weight ( includes ) full tank of fuel ( plus )150lbs. for the driver. ??? Are you certain on that ? Anyone else have a thought on this to help me. THANKS<br><br><br>DC's definition of Curb Weight is &quot;The weight of an unmanned vehicle without cargo, but including fuel, necessary fluids, and all standard equipment.&quot; Hope that helps. Bottom line is a 3500 SRW is the MINIMUM for the trailer in question. A dually would provide a better margin for additional passengers and cargo. Good luck with your decision.<br><br>Casey

pappyman
03-02-2003, 06:49 AM
<br>Will a 1996 Dodge 3500 5.9 turbo diesel , 5 speed, dually, 12 valve, stock, pull a 42' 5th wheel about 15,500 pounds. What would be the max towing without going :) :) crazy. Need to know..please help...Thanks..Jim<br><br><br>JImbo1<br><br>It will pull that weight...but I think you would be happier with more HP then stock like maybe 230 HP/605 Torque using a TST fuel plate...I am sure you will bog down on hills with a stock engine HP....check your engine CLP for your HP rating I am attching a photo of CPL ratings and TST plate numbers

JImbo1
03-02-2003, 08:34 AM
Dear Pappyman,<br><br>Thanks for replying. I am so happy I can pull the fifth wheel. I about ready to buy the truck for $10,000 with 98K miles on it.<br><br>I'm new at this. What is a CLP &amp; a TST fuel plate? How much would it cost? Won't all that torque hurt my 5th gear nut I've been reading about?

pappyman
03-02-2003, 09:14 AM
JImbo1<br> <br>CPL is a cummins code on the data plate that tells cummins about your engine<br><br>http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/Cpl.htm<br><br>The TST fuel plate and ratings can be found here<br><br>http://www.tstproducts.com/power_kits_trial.htm

JImbo1
03-02-2003, 09:44 AM
Thanks Pappy,<br><br>That seems like a bargain for all that extra power.<br><br>This truck I'm looking at this Wed. has 98K miles and never been abused or has it towed anything. Do you think it may need new brakes seeing that they are original?

GrandpasRam
03-03-2003, 09:09 AM
Phonse,<br> Poor Furd makes a very good point - NEVER SCRIMP on tire quality. The tires (and their proper inflation pressures) are one of the most important safety and hanling components on any vehicle, and when you start thinking about towing, it becomes even more important. Get the very best tires you can possibly afford, and check them regularly for inflation and condition. When they are close to the tread wear indicators, don't try to push it - just replace and be safe.

dodgeman01
03-03-2003, 10:31 AM
<br>Thanks Pappy,<br><br>That seems like a bargain for all that extra power.<br><br>This truck I'm looking at this Wed. has 98K miles and never been abused or has it towed anything. Do you think it may need new brakes seeing that they are original?<br><br><br>I just looked at my brakes on the back of my 94 2500 and they were aboput half way gone. Not bad for over 100k. I did replace them but that was because I already had them apart. <br>As for a 96 with 98k on it thats nice. It is hard to find a 96 older ctd without over 100k on her and dents all over. Mine has a few dents [undecided] but has no rust or other problems. Also I pull a lot of different things with my truck. I or any of my friends have not had the 5th gear fall off.<br><br>DM01

JImbo1
03-03-2003, 12:08 PM
Thanks Dodgeman for info on brakes. :) I'm getting REAL ; excited about this '96 for $10,000. I really think I have to go for it especially since it can pull 15,500# according to Pappy and he looks like he knows what he's talking about...just look at all the stars next to his name..; plus, I'm not going over any hills and even if I do, can't I just gear down to 4th or even 3rd? I'm only going to tow about 1,000 miles a year and the rest would be persomal use. With 18-20 miles per gal. I got to be a happy guy.<br><br>Any comments out there.

PHONSE
03-05-2003, 08:06 AM
<br>With 3.73 Axle Ratio [i] You Can Tow 13950 lbs2 <br>Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) [i] = 9900 lbs<br>Payload [i] = 3020 lbs1<br>Curb Weight [i] = 6877 lbs<br>Curb Weight Front/Rear = 3890 / 2987 lbs<br>GAWR [i] Front/Rear = 4750 / 6150 lbs<br>Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) [i] = 21000 lbs<br> <br>The above is copied from the Dodge Trailer Towing calculator. Using the trailer you have just purchased with a pin weight of 2340 pounds, this leaves you a payload of 680 pounds. Allowing 100 pounds for the hitch and that drops to 580 pounds. Allow 350 pounds for two humans and you are at 230 pounds left over for payload. That payload gets eaten up pretty fast. Good thing your pin weight is relatively light. DC's estimated pin weights are general estimates only. Your actual pin weight is what counts. That truck will do the job but it doesn't leave you a lot of payload.<br>Check out that 6877 curb weight, is that a SRW OR DUALLY ??

JImbo1
03-05-2003, 08:11 AM
It's a dually..Jimbo

Casey Balvert
03-05-2003, 04:06 PM
I inputed a SRW Shortbox. Note the GVWR<br><br>Check out that 6877 curb weight, is that a SRW OR DUALLY ??<br>

KenR
03-05-2003, 05:44 PM
That is a mistake on the web site. My truck empty with no fuel, stuff, passengers is 6256lbs. I have another post that list the details.

PHONSE
03-05-2003, 06:29 PM
<br> I have a trailer that is in the same ballpark as yours.<br> I have pulled it with a srw F350 and a 3500 Dodge dually.<br> My Ford had the same gvwr of 9900 lbs. It weighed in at 7050 lbs or so with full fuel, me and a hitch in it. I don't know the empty weight of a Dodge 3500 SRW but I assume it weighs more than the Ford? Are you sure you are over your gvwr? The Ford srw F-350 would not be over with those numbers.<br>FWIW Randy THEY ME THE WRONG CURB WEIGHT 6878 LBS. on the 3500 SRW should have been 6300 lbs. <br>

PHONSE
03-05-2003, 07:06 PM
<br>It's a dually..Jimbo<br> Check out the &quot; RAWR &quot; ?

JImbo1
03-05-2003, 07:09 PM
What's RAWR

PHONSE
03-06-2003, 11:40 AM
<br>What's RAWR<br> Sorry, Hit the wrong key it's suppose to read &quot; Check out the ( REAR ) &quot; GAWR &quot; 6150 LBS. thats not a DUALLY rear axle weight rating? Boy, I sure hope not. DC's books are all messed up on these new trucks. You guys out there thinking about buying these trucks PLEASE , check the &quot; NUMBERS &quot; They sure had me confused for months. Like I said DODGE ENG. DEPT. called and said it was 6300 lbs.( NOT 6878 ) for a 3500 SRW for the above mention truck. Whew! Hope this clears up some minds.

JImbo1
03-06-2003, 11:51 AM
I'm new at this so, I'm confused. I'm about ready to plop down $10,000 for this stock Dodge '96, diesel, 3500, 5 speed, dually. <br><br>I wanted to know if it could pull a 42' 5th wheel with 5 slide outs, and from reading the board and return replies it seems it could. I'm not too sure about this rear end stuff. Can my rear end &quot;no pun intended&quot; handle a 15,500 lb. 5th wheel.<br><br>Any info would be GREATLY APPRECIATED....

Poor_Furd_Owner
03-06-2003, 12:36 PM
I don't know squat about towing 5ers, or even goosenecks.<br><br>That said, a 42' trailer with 5 slide outs sounds like a MONSTER. :o<br><br>I am quite sure you can pull it. I saw a General Malfunction 1500 pulling at least a 35' tripple axle the other day. His rear axle was up against the stops, or **** close to it and he was only making 50mph or so... but he WAS pulling it. [eyecrazy]<br><br>I see all sorts of Furds and Dodges pulling all sorts of trailers. <br><br>At LEGAL weights is a whole other thing!!!! ::)<br><br>

JImbo1
03-06-2003, 12:59 PM
I know I'm probably a couple of thousand lbs. over the recommended weight, but I've seen posts of some people pulling 21-32,000 lbs. I'll only tow about 1000-1500 miles a year. <br><br>I'm concerned about the 5th gear nut on tranny. I figure if I drive it with no lugging, I should be OK<br><br>Trailer's got 3 axels with electric brakes. I'm about ready to buy next week. I should know exact rear end ratio by this weekend. It's probably a 3.5 stock. I would be very surprised and happy if it was a 4.10, but I'll let everyone know. I looked at a Ford '97 dually auto, PSD, but I was afraid of the auto Any thoughts out there. Thanks...Jim<br><br><br>

Haulin_in_Dixie
03-07-2003, 04:28 AM
I don't want to disagree with anyone but my '99 2500 in totally stock form weighed 7250 on the scale with no driver or passenger in it. My empty weight with the trailer is (was as stock) 14,400 with me in it, the trailer is 7000 empty. As far as will it pull it.... there is no discussion, just hook it up and drive it. You will still be able to beat slower cars from a red light. On the OD gear falling off, when in OD keep the rpms above 2000, mine now has 178000 on it with no problem. It has at lease a couple of thousand miles on it without the trailer. The rest is all working. My tags are for 33000 and I use most of it. My pin weight is 5000 and the springs are stock, tires are not.

JImbo1
03-07-2003, 07:55 AM
Thanks &quot;Haulin iIn Dixie&quot; I appreciate your input A LOT...JIm

JImbo1
03-18-2003, 10:34 PM
Well Boys I'm about to buy the truck tomorrow or Thurs. I got it down to $9650. It has 100k miles, 5 sp, 3.50 rear end, dually, green, MINT, oil changed every 3K miles. Even has a camper top with the same green. Man am I excited. <br> From what I've been looking at, I figure the truck is worth at least $13,500. The owner is a friend of mine, NEVER pulled anything and babies the truck.<br> I'll write back when I buy it. I'm going to be a diesel guy and I think I'm going to love it.<br><br>P.S. My 15,500lb, 42', 5th wheel is about 7&quot; taller than a regular 5 er. The '96 dodge 3500 bed looks a little lower than the 2001 Chevy duramax diesel &quot;flatbed&quot; that we first pulled it with. The flatbed was the perfect height. There's three settings on the 5er hitch and I can come down 1 setting giving me about 2 more inches of height. I haven't seen the truck hitch for 8 months and I know this is a vague question,but do you think there is enough adjustment in the truck hitch to come about the same hight as the flatbed..Thanks...Jim