fuel box results with H.O. engine
05-17-2010, 08:46 PM
#1
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fuel box results with H.O. engine
What can I expect from an Edge EZ? I've heard it would be less than with a S.O. engine. I was toying with the idea of running the Juice w/ Attitude to eliminate a guage setup install, but I'm not sure if I want to tap the pump wire. I'm not overly enthused with spending money on an injector pump if I don't have to. Plus, I like the idea of not using the ECM to tell me boost pressure.
Does anybody know what the EZ is doing to get the extra power? What about the Mileage Max? Is it only timing, or is their fueling involved too? What special thing does the Comp or Juice w/ Attitude do when the pump wire is tapped?
Does anybody know what the EZ is doing to get the extra power? What about the Mileage Max? Is it only timing, or is their fueling involved too? What special thing does the Comp or Juice w/ Attitude do when the pump wire is tapped?
05-18-2010, 08:38 AM
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Royta
I don't have all the answers to your questions, but I'm sure you get some good responses. I, like you don't want to tap the VP44. I believe the EZ does timing, fuel and duration, but I'm not sure. I won't comment on the boxes I don't have. My friend has an 2002 and he uses a Van Aakan and Mach 1.6 injectors and he is very happy with that setup. I wanted to put Mach injectors in my rig, but I live in CA and now i have to have my truck smogged every two years......
No 1.6's for me!!!!!!! My set up works great for towing, which is the main purpose of the truck. Whatever choice you make get guages. They come built into the Juice. Also get a fuel pressure guage so you can monitor your lift pump.. I went through 3 lift pumps on my 01.5 before I put in an Air Dog 150.. Good luck. The CTD is a great engine!! 
I don't have all the answers to your questions, but I'm sure you get some good responses. I, like you don't want to tap the VP44. I believe the EZ does timing, fuel and duration, but I'm not sure. I won't comment on the boxes I don't have. My friend has an 2002 and he uses a Van Aakan and Mach 1.6 injectors and he is very happy with that setup. I wanted to put Mach injectors in my rig, but I live in CA and now i have to have my truck smogged every two years......
No 1.6's for me!!!!!!! My set up works great for towing, which is the main purpose of the truck. Whatever choice you make get guages. They come built into the Juice. Also get a fuel pressure guage so you can monitor your lift pump.. I went through 3 lift pumps on my 01.5 before I put in an Air Dog 150.. Good luck. The CTD is a great engine!!
05-18-2010, 11:15 AM
#3
Most of the performance boxes enhance timing, although some just do fuel. Your HO will respond much better to injectors instead of a box.
If I were in your position I'd get a Smarty and a set of big injectors. That combination is very simple and reliable. For injectors I'm very partial to the Formula 1 Mach series. On my 2000 SO I have Mach 1s, but I also have an Edge Comp and tapped the pump wire. I'd rather have Mach 4s and a Smarty if I was going to do it all over again.
Mike
If I were in your position I'd get a Smarty and a set of big injectors. That combination is very simple and reliable. For injectors I'm very partial to the Formula 1 Mach series. On my 2000 SO I have Mach 1s, but I also have an Edge Comp and tapped the pump wire. I'd rather have Mach 4s and a Smarty if I was going to do it all over again.
Mike
05-18-2010, 07:04 PM
#4
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I thought I read that the H.O. engine used smaller injectors in order to build higher injector pressure. That sounds awful strange though.
03-03-2011, 12:03 PM
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Is there a problem with buying a used Smarty? What should I look out for?
There's a couple near me...one at $400 for a used one and $390 for a new one with the plastic on the case but from a guy selling it because he bought the wrong one.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
There's a couple near me...one at $400 for a used one and $390 for a new one with the plastic on the case but from a guy selling it because he bought the wrong one.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
03-05-2011, 12:47 AM
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smarty is 60hp
EJ/A built in gauges and not tapped is still only 60hp
I cant comment on a HO engine as to the results you will see. but I can compare an EZ to an J/A. I removed a set of mech gauges and an EZ, in favor of J/A, and if I had to do it again, I would. I lost about 800$ removing the EZ/mech gauges, I got a couple dollars for it when I sold it. and I believe I paid about 740$ canadian for EJ/A.
I believe the best features of J/A over mech gauges are the ability to pre-set safe limits, and not have to watch gauges, because there is an audiable alarm, it has also help me trouble shoot sensors because it shows the sensor values
also turbo timer is a nice touch
EJ/A built in gauges and not tapped is still only 60hp
I cant comment on a HO engine as to the results you will see. but I can compare an EZ to an J/A. I removed a set of mech gauges and an EZ, in favor of J/A, and if I had to do it again, I would. I lost about 800$ removing the EZ/mech gauges, I got a couple dollars for it when I sold it. and I believe I paid about 740$ canadian for EJ/A.
I believe the best features of J/A over mech gauges are the ability to pre-set safe limits, and not have to watch gauges, because there is an audiable alarm, it has also help me trouble shoot sensors because it shows the sensor values
also turbo timer is a nice touch
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03-06-2011, 06:15 PM
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What can I expect from an Edge EZ? I've heard it would be less than with a S.O. engine. I was toying with the idea of running the Juice w/ Attitude to eliminate a guage setup install, but I'm not sure if I want to tap the pump wire. I'm not overly enthused with spending money on an injector pump if I don't have to. Plus, I like the idea of not using the ECM to tell me boost pressure.
Does anybody know what the EZ is doing to get the extra power? What about the Mileage Max? Is it only timing, or is their fueling involved too? What special thing does the Comp or Juice w/ Attitude do when the pump wire is tapped?
Does anybody know what the EZ is doing to get the extra power? What about the Mileage Max? Is it only timing, or is their fueling involved too? What special thing does the Comp or Juice w/ Attitude do when the pump wire is tapped?
The EZ advances timing in some locations of the fuel map-- some places, a bunch. It adds fueling up to the maximum the ECM will allow. This ends up being about 45hp at peak power (not to be confused with peak GAIN, which the power chip manufacturers advertise, which may be up to 65 or so, but occurs at an RPM that is not peak power). The effect is a flatter horsepower curve (not torque-- the torque curve will have a big hump in it, and coming off this hump, the torque decreases rapidly as RPM in increasing. End result is that the torque decrease and RPM increase tend to cancel each other out and flatten the HORSEPOWER curve). For reference, the factory calibration has a table-flat torque curve above 1600rpm, which is why horsepower comes up in a straight line from 1600-2700 rpm. HP=tq*rpm. It's just following the gain in RPM linearly.
To add more fueling than the ECM fueling limit, you have to override the ECM fueling commands via "tapping the wire." This is why you can't make more than 40hp or so without tapping the wire with electronics alone. The "wire tap" is sending a second command to the fuel pump after the ECM command fur injection. This produces basically a second firing of the injector (but before the injector closes from the previous injection). Because of this late injection, these fueling boxes tend to produce high EGTs because they inject a good bit of fuel pretty late.
All the non-tapping power boxes/chips work basically the same way: the manipulate the CAN-BUS signals to get make the ECM less stingy with fueling and modify timing. The EZ, mileage max, and all other such appliances are similar in this regard. They differ in how clever in the manipulation, but not in basic methodology.
Up to a point, I think it's better to use larger injectors and no fueling box. You can get to the point where the injectors start to get really smoky and burn quality suffers. Up to 100hp or so, there's almost no downside to larger injectors.
I've been running the Smarty and Mach 4s since 2006 and have found no reason to change this setup. It works great with the stock turbo, though it is more fuel than the stock charger can support, so I give up 30-50hp peak or so.
03-07-2011, 06:37 AM
#10
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The EZ advances timing in some locations of the fuel map-- some places, a bunch. It adds fueling up to the maximum the ECM will allow. This ends up being about 45hp at peak power (not to be confused with peak GAIN, which the power chip manufacturers advertise, which may be up to 65 or so, but occurs at an RPM that is not peak power). The effect is a flatter horsepower curve (not torque-- the torque curve will have a big hump in it, and coming off this hump, the torque decreases rapidly as RPM in increasing. End result is that the torque decrease and RPM increase tend to cancel each other out and flatten the HORSEPOWER curve). For reference, the factory calibration has a table-flat torque curve above 1600rpm, which is why horsepower comes up in a straight line from 1600-2700 rpm. HP=tq*rpm. It's just following the gain in RPM linearly.
To add more fueling than the ECM fueling limit, you have to override the ECM fueling commands via "tapping the wire." This is why you can't make more than 40hp or so without tapping the wire with electronics alone. The "wire tap" is sending a second command to the fuel pump after the ECM command fur injection. This produces basically a second firing of the injector (but before the injector closes from the previous injection). Because of this late injection, these fueling boxes tend to produce high EGTs because they inject a good bit of fuel pretty late.
All the non-tapping power boxes/chips work basically the same way: the manipulate the CAN-BUS signals to get make the ECM less stingy with fueling and modify timing. The EZ, mileage max, and all other such appliances are similar in this regard. They differ in how clever in the manipulation, but not in basic methodology.
Up to a point, I think it's better to use larger injectors and no fueling box. You can get to the point where the injectors start to get really smoky and burn quality suffers. Up to 100hp or so, there's almost no downside to larger injectors.
I've been running the Smarty and Mach 4s since 2006 and have found no reason to change this setup. It works great with the stock turbo, though it is more fuel than the stock charger can support, so I give up 30-50hp peak or so.
To add more fueling than the ECM fueling limit, you have to override the ECM fueling commands via "tapping the wire." This is why you can't make more than 40hp or so without tapping the wire with electronics alone. The "wire tap" is sending a second command to the fuel pump after the ECM command fur injection. This produces basically a second firing of the injector (but before the injector closes from the previous injection). Because of this late injection, these fueling boxes tend to produce high EGTs because they inject a good bit of fuel pretty late.
All the non-tapping power boxes/chips work basically the same way: the manipulate the CAN-BUS signals to get make the ECM less stingy with fueling and modify timing. The EZ, mileage max, and all other such appliances are similar in this regard. They differ in how clever in the manipulation, but not in basic methodology.
Up to a point, I think it's better to use larger injectors and no fueling box. You can get to the point where the injectors start to get really smoky and burn quality suffers. Up to 100hp or so, there's almost no downside to larger injectors.
I've been running the Smarty and Mach 4s since 2006 and have found no reason to change this setup. It works great with the stock turbo, though it is more fuel than the stock charger can support, so I give up 30-50hp peak or so.
Thanks for your response. Lots of good info there.
If I ever decide to do any fueling upgrades, I'll look into the Mach 1's or 1.6's. Then possibly a Smarty S-03 after that. I like the features of the new REVO software. I'm just hoping I can get as much of a fuel economy increase with the Smarty as I could with the Edge or Mileage Max. Or, should the Smarty come first and injectors second? Then I'll need to pick a clutch. Oh yeah, I'll need a pod and ISSPRO EV2 gauges prior to anything. I already have my fuel supply taken care of.
Regarding getting a Smarty. Other than the obvious problem of a dead Smarty, are there any problems that can arise from getting a used one?
03-07-2011, 12:13 PM
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I would just be concerned where your buying it. this forum has a good group of people. craigslist, ebay etc. you never know what your getting.. yes you can update the software but never know if the downloader it self is messed up. check the ads on here I do see them every now and again. good luck I love mine with the mach 4's
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