I don't know if this is the right area for this thread. But can anyone tell me why fuel is .70 more than gas. I just don't understand it! I just paid $3.84 and that was the cash price! I know oil is crazy expensive by the barrel, and actually 3.00-$3.20 was manageable and kind of expected. But I've really never ever seen it higher than gas. What the ---- is going on. How do truckers handle this and why has there not been a strike yet.

I paid $3.99 today at one of the lower priced statons in town.

I hear it's $4.05 in Northern Maine.

its anywhere from 4.09 to 4.19 here in NY

This should go under General Diesel > Fuel.

Read a few threads in there, many people have explained why it is the way it is.

Supply and demand. Diesel is in bigger demand, but refining priorities and capacity has not changed much. Also, I read one article that said it cost more to refine diesel than gasoline now....additives, etc.

Some of the independent truckers are starting to be more vocal, but all of the big companies just add a fuel surcharge and pass the expense on to me and you.

Around here now, if you order a load of gravel, it's the cost of the gravel + a fuel charge.



I don't know if this is the right area for this thread. But can anyone tell me why fuel is .70 more than gas. I just don't understand it! I just paid $3.84 and that was the cash price! I know oil is crazy expensive by the barrel, and actually 3.00-$3.20 was manageable and kind of expected. But I've really never ever seen it higher than gas. What the ---- is going on. How do truckers handle this and why has there not been a strike yet.

4.08 here in san diego.i am going across the border this saterday to fill up the tank and a few cans.its $2.05-2.50 i think.

At least we have the largest fuel surplus reserves in the last 4 years in the U.S. I can't believe that diesel is this expensive.... I thought it was bad at $3.79 a gal. here in SW Florida....

Seems to me "they" always blame the winter hike on heating fuel costs in the midwest and east. Funny how it goes up but never seems to come back down. When I bought my truck it was 1.25 and i was laughing as I had my foot to the floor. Now I push my truck from dead stops and let gassers pass. There has got to be a better way to heat a building besides precious diesel.

$1.169/L here. Works out to $4.38/Gal after exchange. Suddenly, $25/day travel pay isn't enough. Its sad when I almost prefer to drive the 93 tempo instead of my truck.

I was talking with a guy the other day about diesel cost...he's a trucker for a living. I asked him what his thougths were about the prices and is there anything the truckers are going to try and do draw awareness to the price of diesel, since all anyone ever see's on the news is gas. He said the independents are pretty much screwed. The larger shipping/trucking companies don't seem to care as much...not that they don't care, just not nearly as much. He filled me in on why...When they hire a new driver, they are subsidized by the government for that drivers training. As long as that driver stays with that company for 2 years after their training, the government then pays that drivers salery through whatever company he was hired by. His point was, the larger shipping companies aren't getting hit as hard as the independents because ultimately they're not putting out as much. They're simply not having to put out the cash for the first two years, so, the price of diesel doesn't impact them as hard. He also elaborated that the government is actively attempting to get the trucks off the road. At least the coast to coast trucks. He claims they're trying to get long distance shipping to be by trains and planes. The goal is for the trucks to do the local shipping from the train yards or airports to the stores/deliveries. This is what he claims, so, I can't speak for how accurate it is, but, he's been in it for over 30 years now. I'm sure he's watched a lot change in that industry over those years. He also mentioned the ULSD has contributed to the price hikes, but, he says it still costs less than gas to produce. He does not discount the effects of the demand on heating oils...he said everywhere he's driven this winter he's noticed it seems cooler than normal. Like I said before, I'm just conveying his thoughts. I have my own thoughts, but, I'm too tired to go on...it's 1:40 a.m. here and got to get some sleep.

A couple years ago in the lower mainland truckers raised quiet an uproar about fuel prices. All the container truckers had huge rolling convoys through the cities which caused quiet a few traffic jambs, I dont think it actually did any good though. Around the same time Gravel trucks went on strike to try to add a fuel surcharge. The strike lasted pretty long probably a month or more I cant remember, Anyways most gravel trucks arn't union. So all the union ones went on strike along with lots of non union ones. There were lots of gravel truck drivers that wanted to continue to work but couldn't becouse it got pretty violent. Some of the guys that went to work got beat with shovels and things like that. It really wasn't a good thing. Anyways I guess my point is that you asked why there wasn't any strikes yet but there were a couple years ago allready. In my opinion fuel prices arnt going to go down from people complaining or from people going on strike. It just means that truckers will have to charge more, then stores will charge more and on and on.

I am fairlly young but don't ever remeber seeing diesel over 4.00 ...That is going to hurt everyone , if the politions really cared they could suspend the fuel taxes in this country ...I know thats not going to happen !

I am fairlly young but don't ever remeber seeing diesel over 4.00 ...That is going to hurt everyone , if the politions really cared they could suspend the fuel taxes in this country ...I know thats not going to happen !


It's not just the fed tax, the state tax also needs to go away for awhile.

Check out this (http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp) site.

Since the US and Canadian dollar are pretty much par.. do the math for Toronto. $1.16/L x 3.8 = $4.40/Gallon!!!

inflation is mostly responsible for the cost. simple economics. rack up a big debt and print more money to cover it instead of collecting more revenue, and you are worth less. the dollar is worth about 50% of its '00 value. Look at the historic value of gold for a reference youll see what I mean.
Essentially this inflation is like the hidden tax thats paying for the debt thats being racked up. Its coming from all of us and its a LOT of money.
If you want to do something about it, contact your representatives.
If you want to really talk about the reasons behind this, it should be done on all-politics.net =(

Don't forget we're fighting wars in 2 theatres, military vehicles run on diesel.

Truckers complaining will do about as much good as all of us complaining.... none.
Cost is going up, fact of life. Deal with it or drive a Prius. Fuel will never be back to the $0.99 a gallon when I bought my Ram, or the $1.25, or $2.50. It's not just big oil and greed- the govt will never drop fuel taxes (almost $0.50/gal here) and no matter what you say or want to believe, the refinaries in this country have been stagnant in developement and for decades. We're not physically able to produce fuel as fast or as effeciently as the rest of the world, and won't ever again. US oil companies are not going to invest $$$$ in old refinaries when the EPA and Environmentalists pressure them like the have for decades to reduce emissions and stop Global Warming.

Aside from the weak US dollar which has a tremendous effect on the oil prices. Remember, the less your greenback is worth the more of them you need to spend... ever been to Japan- how many Yen does a Mc Donalds Burger cost?? The government's answer is print more money- which devalues the money already in the world. More pieces representing a set value of gold means each piece is worth less... simple economics.

There is more demand world wide for oil and our economy is tanking- thus oil costs more.

I saw somewhere that it is not opec raising the price on the drum of oil but the us fuel companies doing it, so we are getting screwed by our own country, truckers will do nothing as long as the people recieving delivery continue to pay the fuel surcharges

The head of the US Dept of Energy was asked this very question this morning on the news. He said the reason diesel is higher than gas is because US refineries are geared more towards turning out gasoline since historically it's been more in demand. Now that there are more diesels on the road supply can't keep up with demand and much of the US diesel supply must be imported = more money.
I was satisfied with his explanation.

smells like bulls*&$ to me, called coruption(sp?) no one in our government cares because they are all getting kickbacks in the form of stocks, campain donations etc. from the oil companies so it is in THIER best intrest to keep fuel prices as high as possible, besides they don't pay for their own fuel we do, they found out after katrina just how far they can price gouge before the truckers stop, i was there when it happened they were charging as much as $10 per gallon or more for fuel and noone did anything to stop em and you had to pay or sit there and not deliver your load prices stayed high till truckers started to protest then they dropped, people forget alot in a few years

The head of the US Dept of Energy was asked this very question this morning on the news. He said the reason diesel is higher than gas is because US refineries are geared more towards turning out gasoline since historically it's been more in demand. Now that there are more diesels on the road supply can't keep up with demand and much of the US diesel supply must be imported = more money.
I was satisfied with his explanation.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just like i stated on the general>fuel threads this is an issue of the US refinment process NEVER being geared toward DIESEL FUEL....it is the exact oppsite in Europe...ever check out what they pay at the pump for GAS...it is rediculous!!!!!!!

there is something to be said about inflation, the cost per barrel, and demand but it really comes down to the production of the fuel...we in the US simply dont PRODUCE it..when you look at the break down of a barrel of oil in terms of what is produced it is a 3-1-1 crack...3 parts gas, 1 part diesel, 1 part (what they call mo-gas) and that just flat out spells bad news for people like us.

take in to consideration that we can't renovate our current refinement plants due to enviornmentalist and also we dont build new ones due to the expense of it and we dont drill for oil here anymore (thanks enviornmentalists) that hurts us. WE KNOW THERE IS MORE OIL OFF OUR SHORES than we could ever need but we cant get it...well we are doomed.

i hear the problems and feel the pain but i bite my lip and suffer though it..two sayings come to mind: "YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY" and or "YOU GOTTA KNOW WHEN TO HOLD'EM, KNOW WHEN TO FOLD'EM" you make that call!

NCA

Hey guys thanks for all the input. I still don't understand the huge profits that the major oil companies are having. In the last two years, are we really driving and buying so much more gas that big oil companies are having an extra $50-100 billion profits/year? Nothing explains their profits. Those profits really make the "supply/demand" and the "out of date refineries" arguments very doubtful. Since the "Katrina" spike a couple of years ago oil companies have realized that we will pay anything for our fuel. Let's face it there's probably about 50 or so oil executives that are absolutely loving it. A prius is looking better and better. Can it tow 7k lbs? Maybe I'll just get a pop up and a tent.

Hey guys thanks for all the input. I still don't understand the huge profits that the major oil companies are having. In the last two years, are we really driving and buying so much more gas that big oil companies are having an extra $50-100 billion profits/year? Nothing explains their profits. Those profits really make the "supply/demand" and the "out of date refineries" arguments very doubtful. Since the "Katrina" spike a couple of years ago oil companies have realized that we will pay anything for our fuel. Let's face it there's probably about 50 or so oil executives that are absolutely loving it. A prius is looking better and better. Can it tow 7k lbs? Maybe I'll just get a pop up and a tent.

you could not be more wrong about this idea BIG OIL is making SO MUCH MONEY it comes in hand over fist....

here we go...rough numbers for you.

this is a per gallon break down of fuel costs to per barrel price.

cost to get it at the well head RIGHT NOW...2.07
fed tax... .50 varies
state tax.... .27 varies
price to refine.... .62 varies but usually doesnt drop below that.
price to ship..... .26
price to get it shiped to the pump..... .35 varies

total....4.07 a galon....at that amount where is the PROFIT MARGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big oil is LOSING MONEY VERY BADLY RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

NCA

I saw 4.39 this morning on my way into work. That was in the city, out by me its between 3.79 and 3.93.
It takes one day for fuel to go up a quarter, but it'll take a month for it to go down 10 cents. Once winter is over here, i'm parking the truck and I'm getting a motorcycle to ride to work.

I have friend that works as a terminal operator for a pipeline company, and he said they are affraid that people might try to break into his terminal to steal gas or diesel. He thinks its s very realistic possibility that someone might try that or try to steal from a tanker truck.

In the DC, VA, MD area there has been 4 Trucks Stolen with 2000 gallons of diesel, per truck, missing.....this has been the last month....Its only going to get worse...

Rick

So where's the bio? We can make diesel with potatos, corn, soy, etc? Who is keeping thier thumb on that industry? I know ethanol is not energy cost -effective to produce but diesel sure is. There's only one place here in Phoenix to get B100 and they want darn near as much as diesel because of the supply.

big oil is LOSING MONEY VERY BADLY RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

NCA


Are you kidding me? It costs $10/barrel to extract a barrel of oil out of the oil sands in Northern Alberta. Thats hauling it to crushers, extracting the bitumen out of the sand, then upgrading it into synthetic crude. I highly doubt it costs even the same amount out of a conventional well. If oil companies can't make money on $100/bbl oil, how did they ever live in the days when it was $20, or even $50/bbl two years ago?

....at that amount where is the PROFIT MARGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big oil is LOSING MONEY VERY BADLY RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious...poor ol' oil companies...my heart goes out to them. I guess the profit would be in the 2.07 to begin with. Here's a decent article I just googled

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/23/news/companies/exxon_profits/index.htm?cnn=yes

I like the $75,000 a minute earnings Exxon has. It must be nice. Hmmmm...I wonder, who exactly is settign the price per barrel anyway.

So where's the bio? It's close to the source, in the American heartland. Problem with bio is it can't be shipped by pipeline due to cross contamination fears with jet fuel that shares the same pipelines. Bio's lower gel point could be a concern at 30,000 feet where it tends to get cold.
Because of this bio has to be trucked so the supply stays close to the demand. At this point little bio makes it out of farming areas. I expect it will remain this way for years to come.

The words "Profit Taking" come to my mind.

Jim

inflation is mostly responsible for the cost. simple economics. rack up a big debt and print more money to cover it instead of collecting more revenue, and you are worth less. the dollar is worth about 50% of its '00 value. Look at the historic value of gold for a reference youll see what I mean.
Essentially this inflation is like the hidden tax thats paying for the debt thats being racked up. Its coming from all of us and its a LOT of money.
If you want to do something about it, contact your representatives.
If you want to really talk about the reasons behind this, it should be done on all-politics.net =(
I tack it up to just plain greed by the oil companies.

you could not be more wrong about this idea BIG OIL is making SO MUCH MONEY it comes in hand over fist....

here we go...rough numbers for you.

this is a per gallon break down of fuel costs to per barrel price.

cost to get it at the well head RIGHT NOW...2.07
fed tax... .50 varies
state tax.... .27 varies
price to refine.... .62 varies but usually doesnt drop below that.
price to ship..... .26
price to get it shiped to the pump..... .35 varies

total....4.07 a galon....at that amount where is the PROFIT MARGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big oil is LOSING MONEY VERY BADLY RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!

NCA


wow i totally disagree with you if they are hurting why are they driving lambo's all day long?? mine on half tank right now and when it runs out thats where Im leavin it. and yes they can make gas .99 a gal its all about makin $$$$ they are all pigs and I do believe there is also a cure for aids they are just holding it till the right person shells out enough $$$$$ oh boy i could go on and on

Man, all those who say profit taking, greed, conspiracy theory's- suck it up.

The oil companies don;t raise the price of a barrel of oil on the open market- do some research and learn how the commodities market works. If you want a conspiracy theory- try this- since it's actually semi true. We're doing it to ourselves by investing in the commodity market buying oil hedging it will increase in value as an investment- when it does we make money at the expense of increasing to cost of the supply.

God forbid in a free market world that a company won't reduce the cost of it's product just because YOU don't want to pay so much for it.... especially when you're money is worth less and less every day..... That's OPEC people. The rest of the world needs oil too and the rest of the world has been paying $4 to $5 PER GALLON FOR YEARS. The US is not entitled to cheap oil just because it's the US, and the oil companies are not required to subsidize poor SUV driving Soccer moms by cutting profits when the demand skyrockets. The oil companies didn't cry poor and complain when there was little profit in it for a decade in the 1970's, or the shortages in the 1980's- they relied on the finance they had accrued in the past. Guess what- this is when they bank money for hard times. Exxon has invested record amounts in research for new drilling sites and improved technologies to continue doing business in the future.

Everyone scream conspiracy and greed and bribery when it suits them with no facts to back it up, but when a situation happens when there are facts to back it up like during the Clinton Presidency you don't want to hear about anything.

So because someone personally has some money that makes them greedy? So what if a CEO drives a Lambo- I know alot of other people driving as expensive cars- does that mean THEY are greedy and they're business is price gouging?

The oil companies didn't cry poor and complain when there was little profit in it for a decade in the 1970's, or the shortages in the 1980's- they relied on the finance they had accrued in the past. Guess what- this is when they bank money for hard times. Exxon has invested record amounts in research for new drilling sites and improved technologies to continue doing business in the future.

The oil companies don't cry? This last year, royalty rates in Alberta were raised on oil and as production. We are still among the cheapest places in the world to harvest these resources, and oh how did they cry foul. It was gonna cause the economy to tank, its the reasons why there will be massive layoffs due to lack of exploration (natural gas sector was cooling off for the past couple years already), and they were gonna pack up all their toys and move to somebody elses sandbox to play.

Guess what, they haven't left, there haven't been any lay offs, and our economy is still one of the hottest in the world. Much fear mongering for roughly $1billion a year combined from all the companies operating in the province today. It amazes me that some people feel sorry for these companies making record profits while we're paying record high prices.

Just last week I saw something on the news about Exxon flipping it’s lid saying the fines from the US for everytime they spill are becoming over-kill. They got fined 2.5 BILLION dollars for a spill 19 years ago, and are still fighting the fine. If you do the math, it’s less than three weeks profit for Exxon, since on average they’re making close to 1 billion dollars per week.

They’re fighting 2.5 weeks profit, when I lose about 2 months of income to my fuel tank at the current price of diesel.

Right, they don’t complain!

Wasnt the 40 billion profit only like 9% profit??

in my business thats about the average profit margin...sometimes its 15-17...depending on the job

Are you kidding me? It costs $10/barrel to extract a barrel of oil out of the oil sands in Northern Alberta. Thats hauling it to crushers, extracting the bitumen out of the sand, then upgrading it into synthetic crude. I highly doubt it costs even the same amount out of a conventional well. If oil companies can't make money on $100/bbl oil, how did they ever live in the days when it was $20, or even $50/bbl two years ago?

you misiterpeted what those numbers represented....that is the COST to MAKE a GALLON of fuel...not what a BARREL costs to take out of the GROUND...and yes...2.00 A GALLON is ACCURATE i asked my father who is an EXECTUTIVE with a MAJOR oil company.

i dont have time nor the patients to explain it as i am just as frustrated as the rest of us. but there is to much of a SKEWED view point as we have FOR YEARS BEEN TOLD THAT BIG OIL just takes our money and wreaps these HUGE BENIFENTS.

right now where oil companies are makeing the money is on the upstream side of production...ie taking it out of the ground...but like i said i dont have the time to explain it....they ARE LOOSING THEIR SHORTS OFF ON PRODUCTION OF OIL....

NCA

Wasnt the 40 billion profit only like 9% profit??

in my business thats about the average profit margin...sometimes its 15-17...depending on the job

true, true....look i am not sticking up for oil companies, because i hate to pay for it just as much as you all do...but look at the whole picture before you blame a company for "robbing the littel guy"

when people spout off numbers like profit this and profit that...are they REALLY looking at what is MADE versus what is SPENT....ie..net versus gross. we all know media plays a huge part in our everyday life and i would bet that when a media giant shows numbers that the average person just digests and doesnt question it doesnt accuratly reflect the picture....

heres the problem...people see numbers like 40 billion and they cant realate to it because we make 100,000 if we are lucky...but in order to get that 40 billion they spend 32 bilion (not fact just an example) so when astronomical numbers are throw around carelessly it makes the working man get all frenzied up and that spells resentment.

i hate paying what i am paying...i live in the market that pays on average the MOST IN THE NATION...and we have the 2nd LARGEST REFINEMENT plant on the west coast less than 30 min down the road....but i just relized long ago that you gotta either PAY TO PLAY or FOLD YOU HAND!!!!!!!

nca

Diesel is $4.00 in tacoma wa

Well, if they're losing money it sure is funny because I can't figure out where. I know the different between gross and net.

Look, their NET income!
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/exxonmobil/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080201005420&newsLang=en

Your dad can spew anything he wants, but stop defending the oil company with the "they're losing too" attitude. Sure, us americans are spoiled. Sure, we want their prices to come down because we don't like paying this much.

Not denying that, but don't defend them with lies.

how can you say i am lieing.....i am not lieing you do not know that...you picked the LARGEST company in the WORLD in terms of oil, sure they have high numbers....

did you see what was spent!!!!!!!!!!!!! 6.1 and 20.8 BILLION respectively on just CAPITAL and EXPLORATION!!!!!!!!!!!! so who is miss leading WHO....you are not even reporting the WHOLE PICTURE IN YOUR NUMBERS!!!!!!!! that right there is HALF of their earnings and that doesnt cover other items...do you know some simple key terms...ie if i said upstream and downstream to you and how and where money is spent and made would ANY of that make sense to you.....i am not saying that it wouldnt, but i am also not SAYING YOUR A LIER, because I (in this case you) DONT KNOW THEM...get it. you took numbers off a web page (a creditable, web page) and pasted them to benifit your arguement but didnt understand (at least it seems that way) that there is more to the numbers than is stated....

like i said, i hate paying what i do...but it is a fact of life

i think the problem is, some people just dont like others to make the kind of money they do....i am by no means rich and i actually live a very humble life..hell i cant even afford to bomb my truck but to BLAME a SINGLE source for the problems is not the awnser...it isnt BIG OILS fault...there is MORE TO IT THAN THAT.....and that is what i have a problem with...people blame the company whose name is on the pump and dont even KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.

NCA

Hey "xtoyz" thats a pretty good webpage. I like the fact that you can see, at the bottom of the page, that the net income jumped over $11 billion from '04 to '05. Which was almost a triple increase compared to the other year to year increases. I believe Katrina hit in 05 and gas went to $3.20+/gallon. That pretty much sums it up for me. I understand that oil is a business and that business needs profits.

If you think of it more in percentages it might make more sense. I think exxon and most other oil companies basically have a per barrel percentage set aside for profit. I think it's probably around 20% of the barrel price. For instance when oil was $40/barrel in '04 they made $8 profit on that barrel. Now that oil is $100/barrel they make $20 profit. These are just rough estimates. It doesn't really matter what they price per barrel is Exxon, and others, have a preset profit percentage per barrel.

It must be nice to be able to do that. Exxon's profits are not coming from us buying more, it's coming from us buying at a higher price. That's why the supply and demand really doesn't apply. So is oil getting like diamonds, where you have a few people controlling the supply to drive up price?

And sure we all know who OPEC is...but do we know who controls them? Everyone, even countries, has a price

I paid $4.10 today in Los Angeles. I saw $4.50 at one station!

Cheapest in Lansing Michigan was $4.19 for diesel. This is no longer a supply/demand thing. It's the NYSE bidding up the price of fuel because its a safe investment.

A whopping 4.10 in Salem Mass.

All currency is related right? The US dollar is representative of a certain piece of Gold. Our dollar falls is shown as the cost of gold increasing, each US dollar buys less and less gold.... while the Euro still buys the same amount of gold it did a year ago, so does the Canadian Dollar, and the Pound.

The Pound is 1.55 to 1 USD. Oil is a commodity just like Gold- when the item you are paying with has less value, you need more of it to get the same thing...costs go up. The latest hikes making $4.00 a gallon is because the US Dollar dropped in value again! You have to look at all the facts before you make an educated decision- if you're not looking at all the facts, your decision is uneducated. People are like sheep (and commonly referred to as such) They are in general lazy (too lazy to put the effort in to really analyze and understand a situation) and follow the one who bleets the loudest. "Oil Companies are greedy, look how much money they took in" is an uneducated statement because the facts are not reflected and it's the loudest thing you hear now, when the ever popular "Bush lied, people died" chant isn't being pandered.

Tate- in the past year since the Alberta Royalty increase the US dollar has decreased in value substantially and the Canadian has strengthened in relation, so the value of the oil in the tar sands has increased- it's not such a large royalty increase after the fact, and with the world demand for oil increasing collecting the tar sands is more profitable. They're even gasifying coal tailings in PA because it's NOW cost effective.

When you have people that think a certain company or companies are making too much profit that simply becomes wealth redistribution- the belief that everyone should have enough to get by and if you have more than that you should give it to those who do not. That's what Obama plans to do if elected for those who make more than $80K a year, take some of your income and give it to those who make less than you. In any other country we'd call that Socialism or Communism.... in this country we pretend it's helping the middle class and call it right and just keep complaining about the cost of gasoline.....

IMO it is simply profit taking, the rest is BS sugar coating to make comsumers swallow it better.... [director]

Heard of any oil companies going broke? How about their stock prices? Dividends? Ever hear of Enron and the energy shortage crunch that evaporated when that company did? [duhhh][guitar][duhhh]

Jim

The overall price of fuel on the rise is due primarily to nothing that is happening in the States. It is the dramatic rise of fuel usage in China and developing 3rd world countries that is putting a crunch on oil supplies. The cost of diesel in relation to the cost of gas is screwed up because of localized (statesides) fuel processing limitations. They ain't set up to make what the demand is. Also the federally mandated low sulpher requirements of modern diesel add to these processing linmitations.
If you are counting on biodiesel bailing us out of this perdicerment; forget it. Just with what we have seen in ethanol... our move toward ethanol production has not made a dent in gas prices, but sure has a dramatic effect on food prices. Expect the same with biodiesel.

$4.19 at Shell in Vacaville as of Fri. am. Up from $4.13 Thursday pm.

here in san diego i think its 4.08.havnt filled up in a few weeks.i got a 1/4 tank left and im taking the girlfriend to mexico saturday for lobster tacos and a diesel fuel run.0.75 a liter i think.with mex auto insurance, the fuel to get there and back, i hope it will be worth it.anyone in cal, arizona, nm, or texas doing this?

All currency is related right? The US dollar is representative of a certain piece of Gold. Our dollar falls is shown as the cost of gold increasing, each US dollar buys less and less gold.... while the Euro still buys the same amount of gold it did a year ago, so does the Canadian Dollar, and the Pound.

The Pound is 1.55 to 1 USD. Oil is a commodity just like Gold- when the item you are paying with has less value, you need more of it to get the same thing...costs go up. The latest hikes making $4.00 a gallon is because the US Dollar dropped in value again! You have to look at all the facts before you make an educated decision- if you're not looking at all the facts, your decision is uneducated. People are like sheep (and commonly referred to as such) They are in general lazy (too lazy to put the effort in to really analyze and understand a situation) and follow the one who bleets the loudest. "Oil Companies are greedy, look how much money they took in" is an uneducated statement because the facts are not reflected and it's the loudest thing you hear now, when the ever popular "Bush lied, people died" chant isn't being pandered.

Tate- in the past year since the Alberta Royalty increase the US dollar has decreased in value substantially and the Canadian has strengthened in relation, so the value of the oil in the tar sands has increased- it's not such a large royalty increase after the fact, and with the world demand for oil increasing collecting the tar sands is more profitable. They're even gasifying coal tailings in PA because it's NOW cost effective.

When you have people that think a certain company or companies are making too much profit that simply becomes wealth redistribution- the belief that everyone should have enough to get by and if you have more than that you should give it to those who do not. That's what Obama plans to do if elected for those who make more than $80K a year, take some of your income and give it to those who make less than you. In any other country we'd call that Socialism or Communism.... in this country we pretend it's helping the middle class and call it right and just keep complaining about the cost of gasoline.....

The overall price of fuel on the rise is due primarily to nothing that is happening in the States. It is the dramatic rise of fuel usage in China and developing 3rd world countries that is putting a crunch on oil supplies. The cost of diesel in relation to the cost of gas is screwed up because of localized (statesides) fuel processing limitations. They ain't set up to make what the demand is. Also the federally mandated low sulpher requirements of modern diesel add to these processing linmitations.
If you are counting on biodiesel bailing us out of this perdicerment; forget it. Just with what we have seen in ethanol... our move toward ethanol production has not made a dent in gas prices, but sure has a dramatic effect on food prices. Expect the same with biodiesel.


Finally some people who understand a thing about this situation....like i have said in ALL of my posts related to this topic....there are MORE issues than just simple greedy price increases by oil companies....

like i said i could explain some more of how i feel it is going, but the above two people hit two of the reasons RIGHT ON THE HEAD....CHINA IS KILLING US...that is one major reason, they are sucking up oil so fast that it puts a huge strain on the world market...but they dont care because thier ecomony unlike ours is BOOMING and they can afford the prices they in reality are driving..another is the cost to refine this new ulsd (and that topic has MAJOR ISSUES wraped up in it) short verson, there is the cost to refine it as such (ulsd) then the assoicated costs with what do you do now with all this exsis sulfer you gotta ship it, store it, process it into something usefull (yea right) did you know there are what people call "SULFER MOUNTAINS" this is a situation becomming more and more serious in third world countries...look it up....oil companies are paying out the nose to have this sulfer shiped to third world countries and dumping it there causing a "mountain" of sulfer that just sits there..gotta pay off the countries, the shippers, etc, etc...all because we need to produce this ulsd....and envoiornmentalist and your neighborhood doesnt want to look at a sulfer mountain in there country side.

i love the fact someone understands the "GOLD STANDARD" that is hurting big time, but hey what do most care about it...rigth your dollar still buys something here...lol...lol people only care about the dollars value when you go else where, what they dont realize or care to pay enough attention to is that we IMPORT way more than we EXPORT now and weather we are here or in another country our dollar is now WEAK....

lastly....JUSTME----your killing me with that oboma insert....that is TO FUNNY and SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! socialism and communism 101 here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol [duhhh][duhhh][duhhh][laugh][laugh]

off the soap box....

NCA

Noticed the price this morning here... 1.19/L which equals pretty darn close to US$4.50/gal
Ouch.

Diesel went up yesterday to $4.15 per gallon, gas dropped $0.10 per gallon the same day.

Gees, here we go with the politics. Last time I checked Socialism and Communism were pretty different. I think a lot of us were trying to keep politics out of it because this is not the right forum for it, and according to some you the US has nothing to do with it.

China this and China that, sure they're buying a lot oil. But they just didn't start buying. They've been buying a lot, over the past several years. Not just this year. The fuel increase I'm talking about is the almost $2/gallon spike since May'07. A couple people here make it seem soooo complicated, that us laymans couldn't possibly understand.

Speaking of communism how does it feel to have China being the second largest holder in the US treasury debt at over $400 billion, second behind Japan at $600 Billion. Thanks "W" for selling us out and thanks a lot for the communist money that we're getting in May. Maybe I can go to Wallyworld and buy more cheap Chinese crap...or I could probably use it to fill up my truck.

well, it's 4.09 here

Yea its getting pretty bogus. We're bouncing between 3.85 and and 3.99 depending on which crooked station your fillin up at here in SLC Utah

i love the fact someone understands the "GOLD STANDARD" that is hurting big time, but hey what do most care about it...rigth your dollar still buys something here...lol...lol people only care about the dollars value when you go else where, what they dont realize or care to pay enough attention to is that we IMPORT way more than we EXPORT now and weather we are here or in another country our dollar is now WEAK....


If you want to make sure this never happens again we NEED to have the dollar pegged to a standard like gold. This was originally done to keep just this sort of thing from happening. Then we went to whats called a 'fiat' currency back in the 70's.
under a fiat currency, when you can tell the printers to print more money, and the spenders to spend more of it, you have complete control over the value of the currency.
If you were a wise investor you could potentially make billions from financial shell-games betting on a weak dollar.
The founders had very strong feelings about money and debt. They had seen other governments manipulate the value of currency to support projects the people would not allow. It is very much a hidden tax.
When the govt can manipulate the currency, it is no longer under the control of the people.
If you want to read more about this, check out the gentleman in my .sig [coffee]

just made a thread about this...


1.27 a litre cost me 152.00 near empty tank. Oh well, still happy to drive my big truck :) Sadly...it would have to be 3 times that to make me consider something smaller....

If you want to make sure this never happens again we NEED to have the dollar pegged to a standard like gold. This was originally done to keep just this sort of thing from happening. Then we went to whats called a 'fiat' currency back in the 70's.
under a fiat currency, when you can tell the printers to print more money, and the spenders to spend more of it, you have complete control over the value of the currency.
If you were a wise investor you could potentially make billions from financial shell-games betting on a weak dollar.
The founders had very strong feelings about money and debt. They had seen other governments manipulate the value of currency to support projects the people would not allow. It is very much a hidden tax.
When the govt can manipulate the currency, it is no longer under the control of the people.
If you want to read more about this, check out the gentleman in my .sig [coffee]


kawi...i love the fact that you support someone...but that guy is a WIERD'O...[laugh][laugh] [duhhh][duhhh] smart as a whip and while he is WAYYYYYYYY out there with some of his ideas i think he is on to something with our economy...but again he is a little strange to hear talk and look at on TV..never really liked his debate skills....but back on topic

found it for 3.99 this weekend. most all other places 4.14-4.23

Gees, here we go with the politics. Last time I checked Socialism and Communism were pretty different. Politics stay out only until you decide that the government needs to limit business revenue because you're paying too much to fuel you're vehicle... then politics get's involved. Yes socialism and Communism are two different things- related, but different and I'm honestly thrilled to know someone else on here actually knows that. (We NEED a high five smile!)

China this and China that, sure they're buying a lot oil. But they just didn't start buying. They've been buying a lot, over the past several years. Not just this year. The fuel increase I'm talking about is the almost $2/gallon spike since May'07. A couple people here make it seem soooo complicated, that us laymans couldn't possibly understand. Look at what has happened since May 07- how about the largest drop in the value of US currency in history? How about the multiple refinery accidents that have reduced refining capacity for short terms? How about the rapid increase of personal vehicle ownership in China in history? Yeah, they have been steadily increasing demand for fuel, but you reach a point when demand increases exponentially, not linearly. It's not sooo complicated for laymen to understand, the problem is the "laymen" don't seem to want to find the root causes or educate themselves on world events and the interrelation of everything in the world, they'd rather just blame Bush, blame oil companies, blame car manufacturers, or blame whoever they don't like and follow the rest of the Sheeple.


Speaking of communism how does it feel to have China being the second largest holder in the US treasury debt at over $400 billion, second behind Japan at $600 Billion. Thanks "W" for selling us out and thanks a lot for the communist money that we're getting in May. Maybe I can go to Wallyworld and buy more cheap Chinese crap...or I could probably use it to fill up my truck.
Agreed, Walmart is evil- I have family working for them because it's some of the only work available. I buy American whenever possible. I'm not so sure "W" is to blame, but I'm not well enough educated in that area to make a statement. I DO know that NAFTA has had a large part to play in the slowing of our economy and the outsourcing of l more jobs and products which benifits Canada and Mexico but not us. That was Billy Boy. I know it's also one of those political issues noone really wants to talk about too, but considering Obama's back pedaling on it and Hilary's current view on it (especially since she championed it wit her husband) it deserves some attention.

kawi...i love the fact that you support someone...but that guy is a WIERD'O...[laugh][laugh] [duhhh][duhhh] smart as a whip and while he is WAYYYYYYYY out there with some of his ideas i think he is on to something with our economy...but again he is a little strange to hear talk and look at on TV..never really liked his debate skills....but back on topic

found it for 3.99 this weekend. most all other places 4.14-4.23

Hes the only guy with half a clue as to what is killing the economy, weird or not. Price of fuel is very much a part of the inflation problem.
I havent heard any other opinions except 'print more' and 'spend more'.
that sure wont get fuel back down to sane prices.
road fuel is bad enough but imagine each winter up north with 4.50 oil. OMG..
Its 4.15/gal here now.

Road fuel is bad enough but imagine each winter up north with 4.50 oil. OMG..
Its 4.15/gal here now.

You will see stories next winter of people finding old folks dead and frozen in their homes because they could not pay for heating oil or propane at $5.50 or $6.50/gal. The media will be ALL OVER those stories in a NY minute and use it to bash the oil companies.

In fact the year before last there was some old lady found frozen to death in Rochester NH cause she ran out of heating oil. A friend of mine (a NH state rep.) made a speach on the NH House floor afterwards RIPPING the local oil company about it, but in the end, nothing was done, no one was to blame.

4.19/gal in sanl luis obispo,CA its getting freaking ridiculous!

Here in Cleveland Metro diesel is $4.09 to $4.19. I'm glad my truck is paid off. It would suck to make $400 + payments and then fuel costs on top of that, not to mention insurance.

Hey "justme"

That was some insightful arguments. I didn't realize a few of those things like the refinery accidents.

And I agree, NAFTA was pushed through by Bill, but the idea was actually the baby of Bush (the first one) and Gingritch. They got the high rolling republicans to support. Bush and Newt were kind of carrying on Reagan's policies of free trade. Reagan got the ball rolling with the Free Trade Agreement with Canada in '88. It was the first of it's type and was really the predecessor of all of our problems with free trade today. It's funny when people bring up NAFTA they hate to believe that it was started by one of the most popular republican presidents ever. Everyone likes to point the finger at Bill, but he really was the puppet of Bush and Gingritch.

1.28/L on friday here in Toronto... $4.86 Gallon

3.85 in covington, ga

bought 299 gal of off road for 3.49

ARGHHH