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5.9Excursion
11-03-2007, 09:42 PM
Well I finally got started on the actual teardown of the Excursion today[guitar]

The wife and kids are now going to be driving my truck every day.

Here's some progress pics...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08610.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08619.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08615.jpg

Little03
11-03-2007, 09:43 PM
Sweet deal man keep us posted on the progress.


Nick

5.9Excursion
11-03-2007, 10:05 PM
Here's a link to my previous post on getting the new motor fired up in the garage...

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=173585&highlight=engine+life

I'm ready to drop the tranny out of the EX, hopefully if it goes well I can pull the engine tomorrow too.

53 willys
11-03-2007, 10:49 PM
right on!!!! I love seeing this stuff.
keep us updated....

wreedCTD
11-04-2007, 10:36 AM
right on!!!! I love seeing this stuff.
keep us updated....

X2 Subscribing!

OneBigDoofus
11-04-2007, 02:35 PM
Good going man!

Are you going to shift it with all the dodge stuff or you going aftermarket shifter,...does anybody sell shifter for the 48?

The PCS is working great on my 4r100

PS,....Does your wife really know that once you get to drive it, she'll nebber get to drive it ever again. LOL[coffee]

TexMexCowboy
11-04-2007, 04:25 PM
dude thats going to look and sound so kool

NHdodgeman
11-04-2007, 05:37 PM
There you go[guitar] We just finished up dropping a 12V in a ferd with the same front end. Its a heck of a swap but its all worth it when all is said and done. Good luck!

5.9Excursion
11-04-2007, 08:53 PM
Got another 4 hours to work on it today. Went pretty well, got the engine and transmission removed. Here's the pics...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08626.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08632.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08637.jpg

haloman
11-05-2007, 10:38 AM
Looks good!!! Putting the V10 in a Ranger? That would be cool.

TonyB
11-05-2007, 11:20 AM
I skimmed the thread for an answer...but couldn't find one...

I'm curious...Why the swap? Other than the power/longevity of the CTD (which would be obvious). Was the 7.3 tired? Dead?

Thanks!

Tony

5.9Excursion
11-05-2007, 11:22 AM
It's a V10 gas hog now. It was about 10k cheaper to buy a gas excursion vs. one with a powerstroke w/ 100k on it. Also, it's much easier, cheaper, and more fun to mod a cummins vs. a powerstroke.

TonyB
11-05-2007, 12:40 PM
Ok...thanks! Like I said, just curious!

Tony

5.9Excursion
11-05-2007, 01:10 PM
Just ordered a MBRP stainless exhaust system and some Dipricol gauges (boost, EGT, fuel, and tranny) for the EX from Rip at sourceautomotive. Hope to make alot of progress this weekend.:)

I just realized I've still got about 35 gallons of gas in the fuel tank:mad: I intended on running it near empty before starting the teardown. Oh well, I guess I need to find a "few" gas cans...[laugh]

5.9Excursion
11-05-2007, 08:54 PM
I got some small stuff done on it tonight. Removed the brake booster, vacuum tank, cruise control system, PS hoses and gear box (replacing it with a new one).

Hammily
11-06-2007, 11:52 PM
What are you doing for fuel lines? Are you using the factory Ford lines?

5.9Excursion
11-07-2007, 07:20 AM
I'm planning on using one of these (the one I purchased a while ago is alittle different design but you get the idea).

http://www.vulcanperformance.com/servlet/the-143/%3Ci%3EDraw-Straw-II%E2%84%A2/Detail

Probably use the ford line at the fuel tank for fuel return.

All lines from the tank to the engine will be new 3/8" or 1/2" (can't remember right now) hose also purchased from the site above.

BigDiesel396
11-07-2007, 10:47 AM
talk about the ultimate family vehicle....looks like its gonna be a great rig when you get er done! Definitely subscribing to this one

5.9Excursion
11-07-2007, 10:26 PM
A little more progress tonight. Got a new steering box and drag link end put on. The old box was worn out and causing the vehicle to not track straight. Jumped back and forth (very annoying). Also got the brake booster removed and replaced with the ford hydroboost unit.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08797.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08798.jpg

The latest picture of my shop... err driveway...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08801.jpg

Hammily
11-07-2007, 11:22 PM
I'm planning on using one of these (the one I purchased a while ago is alittle different design but you get the idea).

http://www.vulcanperformance.com/servlet/the-143/%3Ci%3EDraw-Straw-II%E2%84%A2/Detail

Probably use the ford line at the fuel tank for fuel return.

All lines from the tank to the engine will be new 3/8" or 1/2" (can't remember right now) hose also purchased from the site above.

I did the same thing it worked great. I used the 3/8" biodiesel line. Vulcan is a pleasure to do business with.

xtoyz17
11-08-2007, 09:11 PM
Subscribed.

tmleadr03
11-08-2007, 09:30 PM
I am totally jealous. I really want to do a conversion like this! I was thinking a suburban, but same dif right? Man, way cool. Keep us posted.

5.9Excursion
11-10-2007, 07:24 PM
Had a slight delay yesterday. I was swapping turbo's (out with the stock one and in with the SPS62) and managed to burn three fingers on both hands.[verymad] I had the stainless steel braided oil line loose from the turbo and swung it forward out of the way. It came to rest against the + wire on the back of the alternator. The line started smoking immediately, so stupid me I grab it with both hands to move it [dummy](thinking I better move it before it gets hot). Right.... burnt the crap out of my first two fingers and thumb on both hands. I still have the imprint of the braided hose on 6 of my fingers. Blistered up pretty good too...

So in order to still make progress I had my wife out turning the wrenches last night while I gave instructions with ice bags on both hands (I have no idea of how to explain how bad they felt all day yesterday).

So today they don't hurt as bad, just have to drain the blisters every so often. Still making progress though.

Here's the latest pics... Got the engine installed, ready to bolt up the transmission now... Then the new MBRP stainless exhaust goes in:cool:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08961.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08962.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08963.jpg

bumpytruck
11-10-2007, 08:00 PM
First I have to tell ya that thing is awesome!! I had an Excursion with the PSD in it and it too wandered down the road.My memory is escaping me right now as to what the fix was but I do know that it was caused by the rear axle rolling on the leaf springs under acceleration and deceleration.I know I found the fix on a ford forum site.But I dont recall which one.I think ford truck enthusiasts but I,m not sure.So if your problem persists after the new box look this stuff up.

DevilzTower
11-10-2007, 08:42 PM
I like the custom mag-lite holder!!!! that thing is sweet, where do I pick one up??? [laugh][laugh][laugh]

db
11-10-2007, 08:44 PM
Emissions?????
I heard it's a problem going from a gasser to a diesel.
I'd do it to my 05' EX in a heartbeat if I knew it wasn't a problem.

5.9Excursion
11-10-2007, 10:20 PM
First I have to tell ya that thing is awesome!! I had an Excursion with the PSD in it and it too wandered down the road.My memory is escaping me right now as to what the fix was but I do know that it was caused by the rear axle rolling on the leaf springs under acceleration and deceleration.I know I found the fix on a ford forum site.But I dont recall which one.I think ford truck enthusiasts but I,m not sure.So if your problem persists after the new box look this stuff up.

I've read all about it, the rear axle causes it to wander on the road. I've installed some of the Landyot radius rods (kind of like caltracs) to try and cure the problem. Also installed a rear sway bar as they didn't come factory until 03 or 04. Next I did balljoints (they were worn out). Then I did tie rod ends. All that is left is the steering box and the drag link arm. However the front caster is only 3.5 degrees and the ford spec is like 1 to 6 degrees. I also have some axle shims (go between the springs and the perch) to give it 2 more degrees of caster to help it track straight if the box doesn't fix it.

Emissions, what emissions? A 03 Dodge 2500 truck with a cummins has no emissions equipment on it from the factory so it wouldn't be a problem passing in stock form in the Excursion.

xtoyz17
11-11-2007, 06:19 PM
I've read all about it, the rear axle causes it to wander on the road. I've installed some of the Landyot radius rods (kind of like caltracs) to try and cure the problem. Also installed a rear sway bar as they didn't come factory until 03 or 04. Next I did balljoints (they were worn out). Then I did tie rod ends. All that is left is the steering box and the drag link arm. However the front caster is only 3.5 degrees and the ford spec is like 1 to 6 degrees. I also have some axle shims (go between the springs and the perch) to give it 2 more degrees of caster to help it track straight if the box doesn't fix it.

Emissions, what emissions? A 03 Dodge 2500 truck with a cummins has no emissions equipment on it from the factory so it wouldn't be a problem passing in stock form in the Excursion.
Right. But a gas vehicle DOES have emissions. So how do you go about getting an inspection on a vehicle that needs to meet certain criteria when your motor meets none of them? E.g. NY requires OBD2 scanning, which would result in a massive fail with a diesel since there is no cat, no 02 sensors, no EGR check, etc..

5.9Excursion
11-11-2007, 09:30 PM
Now I see your question. I live in Nebraska where we don't have inspections... (lucky me)

I'm currently stuggling to get the new goerend convertor installed in the tranny. Sounds like such a simple task that I thought would take 2 mins... [verymad] Can't get the splines to line up and allow it to go on the last 1/2".[dummy]

In the mean time I dissassembled the ford transfer case and put the dodge input shaft in it. It's back together now but needs a new input shaft seal (had to destroy the original to get to a snap ring). Didn't take any pics, the wife had the camera today.

Opened the MBRP exhaust box, it sure looks nice :cool:

kingofdodge7131
11-11-2007, 10:09 PM
Even if he did have inspectins it wouldnt have to pass since it is a diesel.... Changing of registration is all that is needed

cnvrt2cummins
11-11-2007, 10:12 PM
That is really looking good. You are a few weeks or maybe months ahead of me on the same project. I have a 96 suburban with a 12v that I need to sell and then I wil buy an excursion with a V10 and put an 05 cummins with the 48re. I dont know if you know this or not but there is a few years since 03 that the cummins computor controlled the trans as well. So I am planning on using the year of computor when Cummins was controlling the trans. I work at the cummins tech center in columbus IN and an engineer was telling me what years they switched back and forth. If you need to know which years let me know and I will ask him again if you do not already have this info.

J OOPS
11-11-2007, 10:18 PM
Awsome!! Did you know that there is only a adapter for Cummins to Ford and not the other way around. Says alot about Cummins. If there is an adapter the other way I never heard or seen it.

Tate
11-11-2007, 11:35 PM
Awsome!! Did you know that there is only a adapter for Cummins to Ford and not the other way around. Says alot about Cummins. If there is an adapter the other way I never heard or seen it.

They have them for chevy's too. The 4bta's used in step vans were usually on a Ford of GM chassis, so they have adapters to each transmission.

Stargate2112
11-12-2007, 12:30 PM
5.9Excursion - Great Thread... and a Great Project... I will be checking in to see and maybe get more ideas, following your progress...

I have the same kind of project in the planning stages, although a bit of a different approach. I have a 1990 Ford Bronco that is going to get the Cummins diesel for a heart.

The way that I want to do it, is to find a wrecked Dodge Ram Truck (preferably rolled) remove the totaled body from the frame, leaving the engine, drive line, and frame intact, I'll have to shorten the frame by at least 31" move the rear axle up by the same amount,and then mount the Bronco body onto the frame.

I'm going to start a new thread, as I don't want to hi-jack this one.

Keep up the good work...

Rob aka stargate2112

DiEseLjunKy
11-12-2007, 04:56 PM
Your wife's a trooper :D You're making good progress. Can't wait to see how it all turns out. Keep the pics coming. Is the mbrp a single or duals?

5.9Excursion
11-13-2007, 11:34 PM
Got most of the exhaust installed, I bought a MBRP stainless kit for a 7.3 diesel excursion and am planning on using my downpipe I bought to go with the SPS62 turbo. Looks like it will turn out great. The muffler looks so good I could hardly mount it out of sight... Still haven't put the 5" tip on the tailpipe yet though.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09015.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09016.jpg

5.9Excursion
11-13-2007, 11:43 PM
Got the fuel tank removed today (huge is an understatement). Removed the factory fuel pump and pickup assembly, discarded the fuel pump, and reused the factory fuel line headed out from the pump as a 2nd return line. Installed a draw straw and it worked perfect. The draw straw sits in the bottom of the fuel canister pickup assembly which sucks off the bottom 1/4" of the tank and is also kept full by the fuel return lines. The only problem I had was that I need more fuel line. With the tank behind the rear axle the fuel line runs are pretty long. Also modified the fuel inlet to the tank so I can fill up at truck stops.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09024.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09025.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09027.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09026.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09029.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09028.jpg

xtoyz17
11-14-2007, 12:19 AM
Nice fingers!

DWK
11-14-2007, 12:23 AM
I see your fingers are healing. LOL
Well atleast enough to get some work done today. Looks good

rufushusky
11-14-2007, 10:02 AM
WOW that is an impressive swap man! [guitar]

dieselfuelonly
11-14-2007, 10:12 AM
Just looking at that picture with your burnt fingers makes me cringe. OUCH!!!

What a cool swap though! I'm sure it'll be worth the burnt fingers when you are done.

duratothemax
11-14-2007, 10:52 AM
thats awesome!!! Excusion with a ctd is a great idea. Keep us updated...Im definetly subscribing to this thread.. :cool:

ben

5.9Excursion
11-14-2007, 12:54 PM
You could actually see the imprint of the stainless steel braided hose in six of my fingers:o

If anyone wants a turbo oil line which is like new for cheap let me know, it only got smokin' hot once (literally).[laugh]

Did anyone notice in some of the pics the black mats on the driveway? If you are crazy like me and do all this sort of work in your driveway, these black mats are worth their weight in gold. They are 1" thick pipe insulation (come in 4' wide rolls about 60' long. I have been using them as mats to lay on when working outside or in the garage. Makes it much easier on your knees, elbows, back, etc...

I got 35' of 3/8" bio friendly fuel line ordered to finish off the fuel line runs from vulcan performance. Mounted the 2 micron remote filter setup under the drivers side floor of the cab just behind the wheel well opening to shield it from rocks (no pics yet).

This weekend I should hopefully get all the gauges installed above the rearview mirror (quad pod for EGT, boost, tranny temp, and fuel pressure).

signature600
11-14-2007, 03:08 PM
If anyone wants a turbo oil line which is like new for cheap let me know, it only got smokin' hot once (literally).[laugh]

How did it get that hot?

Chris

5.9Excursion
11-14-2007, 03:22 PM
The engine was still on its crate with both batteries hooked up (basically ready to start and run). I was swapping turbo's and swung the oil line (loose on the turbo end) forward and hooked it on the engine block heater wiring which was coiled up in that area. When I let go it tried to straighten out and the end of the line contacted the one little exposed piece of the metal connector on the alternator cable that is directly connected to the batteries. As I turned away I noticed something rising, looked back and the entire line was smoking... :o so stupid me I think I better move that line before it gets too hot and damages something...[dummy]

Reached over and toasted six fingers, thumb and first two fingers on both hands. Yelled so loud I freaked my kids out who were nearby. So I grabbed a wrench and knocked the line loose and ran into the house for water...

I have a new respect for working on an engine with the batteries still connected. When installing parts, I've always thought why would these instructions say disconnect the batteries first? I'm not affecting them at all? Now I know why....[duhhh]

rodboy
11-14-2007, 03:31 PM
My wife has an 03 Excursion with the 5.4L and I want to do this same swap as soon as I can get everything rounded up. I will be using your posts to keep everything straight. Thanks alot and it looks like you are making good progress. Good Luck

signature600
11-14-2007, 03:38 PM
The engine was still on its crate with both batteries hooked up (basically ready to start and run). I was swapping turbo's and swung the oil line (loose on the turbo end) forward and hooked it on the engine block heater wiring which was coiled up in that area. When I let go it tried to straighten out and the end of the line contacted the one little exposed piece of the metal connector on the alternator cable that is directly connected to the batteries. As I turned away I noticed something rising, looked back and the entire line was smoking... :o so stupid me I think I better move that line before it gets too hot and damages something...[dummy]

Reached over and toasted six fingers, thumb and first two fingers on both hands. Yelled so loud I freaked my kids out who were nearby. So I grabbed a wrench and knocked the line loose and ran into the house for water...

I have a new respect for working on an engine with the batteries still connected. When installing parts, I've always thought why would these instructions say disconnect the batteries first? I'm not affecting them at all? Now I know why....[duhhh]

Aha...not real funny...but stuff like that has happened to me. I always make sure to "hook" the oil line in one of the lifting eyes when I have the charger off. I never unhook batteries either:D I might start though;)

Chris

96_12V
11-14-2007, 11:16 PM
Nice work so far...Lots of it and it looks as though you're enjoying it...burned fingers and all!

Sorry about the burns...but very glad they are healing up. How many helpers didi it take to get the fuel tank down?

5.9Excursion
11-15-2007, 07:59 AM
Got it out by myself using a tranny jack. The bottom of the tank is pretty flat so it worked well (and I drained it first). The hardest part is trying to roll the tranny jack around on the driveway (rocks), doesn't work so well...

5.9Excursion
11-15-2007, 08:05 AM
One of the previous pics shows how close the power steering bracket is to the gear box. If I raise the engine slightly, the power steering pulley would clear the box (barely), but I decided to change directions alittle.

I called Ken and Dawna at Autoworld and ordered one of their power steering pump brackets to use with a ford power steering pump. Just like to throw in a plug for them for being such a great help, answered all my questions so far.

DiEseLjunKy
11-16-2007, 12:36 AM
Is that a Colt CAR in the top pic? I've got a brand new in the box pre ban heavy barrel AR. Always wanted a CAR.

5.9Excursion
11-16-2007, 07:50 AM
I figured someone would ask about it, it's my 3 year olds BB gun (shoots the plastic BB's), notice the orange on the end of the barrel. He had to have something to use when shooting cans with his older brothers.

Speaking of guns, I should be getting my Gemtech suppressors (silencers) for my walther P22 and my H&K Tactical 45 any day now (its been a long wait)... I'll post some pics when they show up. Maybe even a video of me firing the P22, it is unbelieveable how quiet it is. I'll have to start a new thread in the Other section when it gets here.

DiEseLjunKy
11-16-2007, 05:57 PM
Man that thing almost looked real I wondered about the orange [dummy] [laugh]

5.9Excursion
11-17-2007, 07:47 PM
more progress today...

First I loosened all the motor mounts and jacked the engine up again. Redrilled one hole and now it's sitting perfectly level side to side. Took some time, but I won't ever be bugged about it again.

Got the new billet input installed in the tranny first. The convertor slide right on the first try (like it should of before). Got the transmission installed, transfer case bolted up, and rear driveshaft installed.

Also trial fitted the ford intercooler, it had the mounts on my radiator support even though it was a gasser to start its life.

Also assembled my Willy's Whistler Intake (looks big)...

Here's the pics...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09118.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09122.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09135.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09133.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09132.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09136.jpg

Pooter
11-17-2007, 08:06 PM
Lookin good![guitar]

wreedCTD
11-17-2007, 08:53 PM
Does the Cummins ECM control the 48RE?

TexasCTD
11-17-2007, 09:17 PM
Good Job 5.9 EX.....Keep up the good work! :)


..

5.9Excursion
11-17-2007, 09:34 PM
Does the Cummins ECM control the 48RE?

Nope, using a standalone tranny controller...

rockwithjason
11-17-2007, 10:00 PM
when you get done maybe you could post a parts list for the folks who are considering a similar swap.[guitar]

53 willys
11-18-2007, 11:21 PM
looking good!!!!nice intake choice!

wreedCTD
11-20-2007, 05:09 PM
How many miles did the V10 have on it?

5.9Excursion
11-20-2007, 08:39 PM
100k on it...

More progress but no pics today. I had to shorten both intercooler tubes, also welded 1/8" npt bungs in for future use. Still need to paint them.

Got the GDP pump mounted on the frame rail, ran all the fuel lines (wrapped in corregated plastic for protection), wired the pump up.

Made a new vacuum tank out of 2 & 1/2" pvc pipe, tied in the ford electric vacuum pump, still need to wire it up.

Got the ford power steering pump mounted using the Autoworld bracket, new lines installed. May have an issue with one of my ford lines at the hydrobooster (doesn't seem right), I'll find out when I fill the system and check for leaks.

Took some tweaking, but got the ECM relocation bracket installed (came with the Autoworld engine mounts).

Installed the tranny cooling lines (dodge) and need to get the cooler installed still.

Got my daughter to help me get the torque convertor bolted to the flexplate (she turned the engine over while I put the bolts in).

It's looks like I need to lengthen my downpipe about 2" on the downward portion to miss the ford body...

On the TO DO list...

tranny mount spacer
adapt dodge radiator hoses to ford radiator
throttle cable hookup
shifter cable bracket modification on the tranny
modify downpipe
fabricate battery tray
and the list goes on....

wreedCTD
11-20-2007, 09:14 PM
WOW this thing is gonna be awesome when finished. are you expecting to be throwing and CEL lights on the dash, or are you gonna make those go away?

5.9Excursion
11-21-2007, 12:04 PM
I'm working on the wiring today, I will address the CEL light. I want everything to work as it would from the factory. For example, with two wires I can get the engine to start, however I want it to maintain the factory Park or Neutral interlock so it can't start in gear.

After studying the wiring this morning, it looks like setting up a turbo timer should be a piece of cake. Just need a timer, a relay, and an arming switch or button.

duratothemax
11-21-2007, 11:12 PM
Nice pics...looks like its coming along well... :cool:

whats the throttle cable for? Its drive by wire no? :confused:

wreedCTD
11-21-2007, 11:24 PM
where do you see a throttle cable?

rustyshakelford
11-21-2007, 11:49 PM
where do you see a throttle cable?

its on his to-do list in his last post

brett

5.9Excursion
11-22-2007, 08:23 AM
The Ford has a throttle cable from the pedal to the engine. My cummins has the APPS mounted on the head. The throttle cable connects to the APPS with some adapters and fittings that Scott at Destroked.com sells.

Progress has gotten alittle slower due to the fact that it is now snowing in my shop and the high yesterday was around 30. My shop is actually the driveway...:o

I did get the intercooler tubes painted black, the tranny mount spacer/adapter built and painted, and a bracket made/painted to mount the vacuum pump and vacuum tank.

I'll try to get more pics up after our thanksgiving dinners today and tomorrow.

thewished
11-24-2007, 12:25 AM
Sounds good man!!! Props to all the hard work and I'm sure it will pay off!!

I would love to put a 4BT in the '01 Durango since it pulls the horse trailer some times... (the little 4.7L is kinda powerful til you get some weight, 4 adults sitting in it... gassers...)

5.9Excursion
11-27-2007, 01:50 AM
Finally some pictures... Ford ps pump installed on the relocation bracket (from Autoworld). Modified intercooler tubes and downpipe. These were a pain in the rear since I don't have a welder at my hose, had to measure first. Cut and tack weld. Trial fit, adjust, refit. Then finally weld them for good. Don't look pretty, but the flat black paint covers it up pretty good and it should function just fine.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09158.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09163.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09293.jpg

5.9Excursion
11-27-2007, 01:54 AM
More pics...

I cut off the dodge engine wiring harness connectors, as I don't have the vehicle harness to match. I found some automotive style connectors online (which are weatherproof) that are working great so far for all the wiring. Have seals in the connectors as well as on each wire, shouldn't have to worry about bad connections anywhere.

Also attached a picture of the ford temperature sensor and oil pressure switch installed to allow the dash to work correctly.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09309.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09310.jpg

5.9Excursion
11-27-2007, 01:59 AM
A few more pics, putting the intercooler in and the radiator. Mounting the dodge power steering fluid cooler (much bigger than the ford gas version). Still have to finalize the mounting of the dodge transmission cooler (plenty of room for it though).

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09311.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09312.jpg

53 willys
11-27-2007, 02:05 AM
Cummins along nicely!!! pun intended[redface]

rufushusky
11-27-2007, 01:06 PM
Wow man you are really moving along. Looks awesome![roll]

rip 112
11-27-2007, 01:53 PM
Great job. It'll be doing burnouts before you know it!!!

5.9Excursion
11-28-2007, 01:27 AM
I got the transmission cooling lines in and hooked up, I had to re-bend and use compression fittings on both lines. Need to come up with a permanent solution that doesn't have fittings in it that can leak. Hydraulic hose maybe???

Both intercooler tubes are in, got the Whistler intake installed with the sensor mounted on it. The throttle cable is hooked up. I still have to slightly modify the bracket that holds the gear shift cable where it attaches to the tranny.

The exhaust is all bolted in place and ready to go, the radiator hoses are in and the engine is full of fluid.

List of to do items...

Drop tranny pan (the deep one) and grind some off of the inside edge of the sealing surface where the dipstick enters the pan area. It seems like the dipstick is hitting the top lip of the pan and not wanting to go down any further? Anyone else have a problem like this?[dummy]

Also fill the transmission with fluid, install front driveshaft, fabricate a dual battery tray for the drivers side, modify the A/C lines to adapt to the dodge compressor, finish the wiring, and install all my Diprocol gauges. And the list goes on...

5.9Excursion
12-01-2007, 09:11 AM
Almost finished! :D

Shift cable bracket got modified and mounted. Went ahead and used stainless steel braided hose and AN fittings from JEGS for the tranny cooling lines (turned out very nice). Had to modifiy the header panel slighly to fit around the dodge trans cooler. The front end is all back together now.

Still need to make a dual battery tray (for now I'm going to try one battery so I can drive it). Still don't have any gauges put in yet. Also have yet to pick up my new AC hose assembly and install it.

However, I got all the other wiring finished last night with the exception of the fan wiring.

I could of finished it and started it this morning but we got 1/4" of ice early this morning...[verymad]

Here's some more pics...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09321.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09363.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09365.jpg

Pooter
12-01-2007, 09:16 AM
Lookin good! You have way more patience than I do when it comes to working in the cold, I avoid it at all costs if possible really because I cant stand banging my knuckles in the cold weather[redface]

Is there room for the 2nd battery in the engine bay, or do you need to mount it elsewhere?

5.9Excursion
12-01-2007, 09:17 AM
Here's the current view looking out the window this morning...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09457.jpg

5.9Excursion
12-01-2007, 09:21 AM
Yes there is enough room for two batteries on the drivers side. If I switched my power steering tank and one hose to the power stroke style (mounts by the fuse panel instead of on the fender), it would be much easier (but it would be another $80 or so). Another option would be to use optima batteries (which are slightly smaller). However, I have two large interstate batteries to use so I may have to rotate the battery mount alittle.

wreedCTD
12-01-2007, 09:49 AM
You need to get the "C" badges to mount under the Excursion logo.

Hammily
12-01-2007, 10:02 AM
Wreed you beat me to it. I was just going to post the same thing.

You are doing a nicer job than I did. I hope to clean mine up this winter. I however will not be doing it outside, 4 degrees out side right now.

How did you mod your a/c lines to make them work?

TexasCTD
12-01-2007, 01:54 PM
Almost finished! :D

......................

I could of finished it and started it this morning but we got 1/4" of ice early this morning...[verymad]

.................



Ohhh don't be a wuss! Get out there and Get R Done![laugh]

Seriously, it's looking great! You and DW will have one heck of a ride to drop off the kids to school with! And you can "Roll a little coal" when you do..[laugh]

..

5.9Excursion
12-01-2007, 03:25 PM
I forgot all about the "Cummins" badges I've got around here somewhere... need to find them now I guess.

Well, the ice is gone now but it's still raining...

Here's a shot of the Ford AC line next to the Dodge AC line, I plan on using the ford ends (condensor end and evaporator canistor end) on the dodge hoses. I just looked and the smaller lines are both 10mm, but the larger lines are 3/4" vs. 5/8". I'll have to see if someone can splice these somehow.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09458.jpg

DiEseLjunKy
12-01-2007, 11:40 PM
I hope to clean mine up this winter. I however will not be doing it outside, 4 degrees out side right now.


Ohhh don't be a wuss! Get out there and Get R Done![laugh]

..

...an armchair mechanic from balmy Texas [laugh]

Stargate2112
12-02-2007, 02:21 AM
Hey 5.9Excursion
I would like to know if you had any firewall clearance problems when doing the 5.9 swap?

The reason I ask is I'm gonna put the 5.9 CTD under my '90 Bronco, a few from another forum have done diesel swaps into Broncos but they had to lift the body a few inches to make clearance for the diesel engines.

I've been following your swap from the start, and I must have missed a post, are you swapping in a 12V or a 24V?

Keep up the Great work, can't wait to see this "Smokin Down the Road"

Rob

TexasCTD
12-02-2007, 03:08 AM
...an armchair mechanic from balmy Texas [laugh]



Chris you got that right![laugh] and it's 70 degrees right now....outside at 3AM in the morning. Supposed to get cool again (35*) tomorrow night though.:cool:

..

rustyshakelford
12-02-2007, 09:52 AM
I've been following your swap from the start, and I must have missed a post, are you swapping in a 12V or a 24V?


its a HPCR mated to a 48RE

brett

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 12:38 PM
No firewall issues with the motor or body issues with the tranny. No body lift needed. Matter of fact there is still room to move it back some. Right now there is maybe 1" of clearance between the fan and the ford radiator (just enough room to remove the fan if needed). At some point I'll try to take some pics of the back of the engine to firewall clearance.

It stopped raining yesterday evening and it actually got to 58 degrees about 9pm:o So I finished most of all the wiring and got the battery put in it. I primed the fuel system, have one leak to take care off...

Now I need to load the ATS standalone controller software onto a laptop and setup the controller.

A high of 35 today and very windy...:(

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 01:08 PM
Here's a pic of the parts I got from JEGS for the trans cooling lines. I only replaced two lines (tranny to front cooler, and cooler on the block to the front cooler). I used the modified stock line from MASS Diesel for the block cooler to the trans (has the tranny temp sendor port already in it). I also kept the stock 1' rubber hoses with quick disconnect fittings on them that attach directly to the front cooler. One of them has a check valve fitting in one end.

In the picture below, the three fittings on the right go from the transmission to the front cooler line (check valve fitting). Part numbers are 110105, 111022, & 111002. The three fittings on the bottom go from the block mounted cooler to the front cooler (I kept 3" of factory hard line to go into the stock 1' hose with quick disconnect fittings), I could of removed this rubber hose and just went straight to the cooler hardline but it was hard to get to at this point. Part numbers are 111022, 111002, 110553.

All fittings are either for -8AN, 1/2" hard tube, SS braided hose or 1/4" NPT (on the transmission). I purchased 15' of braided hose, but 10' would have worked.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09367.jpg

benito
12-02-2007, 01:13 PM
Let us know how you like the standalone controller. It sounds like a very interesting upgrade for our transmissions.

Ben

rockrunner
12-02-2007, 02:04 PM
how did the hydroboost connections go im dropping a 12v in my 2000 f550 and the 12v came out of a vacuum brake truck i think im just going to get the powersteering pump of a 97 and hopefully that will work out with some work with the hoses, and where did you get the input shaft for your nv271

Rick WA
12-02-2007, 03:06 PM
Howdy,

Outstanding job so far!!

One question. I read thru your previous posts and I think you're using your original transfer case?

I want to put a similar engine in my 1955 Ford F-600.

I'm planning to use an E4OD because I need to be able to bolt an F450 parking brake unit on the back. I'd like to use a 47RH/RE if I could since it might better suited on the back of a Cummins.

I have not been able to find anyone that can tell me if the 47RH/47RE has ever had a parking brake on the back.

If your original transfer case will bolt to the back (with a different shaft/etc) then the Ford Superduty parking brake assy might bolt on too.

Keep the pictures coming! we all love pictures!!


Cheers,


Rick
In Western Wa

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 08:17 PM
how did the hydroboost connections go im dropping a 12v in my 2000 f550 and the 12v came out of a vacuum brake truck i think im just going to get the powersteering pump of a 97 and hopefully that will work out with some work with the hoses, and where did you get the input shaft for your nv271

Used a 7.3 ford powerstroke hydroboost unit. A 6.0 powerstroke hose to the pump (since I have a 6.0 powerstroke power steering pump), and a 6.0 powerstroke hose to the steering box. No splicing of any hoses except the low pressure from the hydroboost to the tank.

I got the input shaft to the transfer case from www.transfercaseexpress.com. It was a used one. You will also need the roller bearing that goes in it as well as a new seal (as you have to ruin the stock one to get the shaft out).

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 08:20 PM
Rick WA,

Yes I am using the Ford transfer case (273 model), I just swapped out the input shaft to the one used in a dodge application. Physically, the front of the transfer case is identical between the two, from as far as I can tell. Where did the brake mount? Between the transfer case and the tranny?

Rick WA
12-02-2007, 08:24 PM
On the F450, they bolt the parking brake right on the back of the transmission....then if there's a transfer case I suppose it bolts on the brake. I don't know if they're used on 4x4's though.

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 08:53 PM
Got the wiring finished enough to fire it up and fill the tranny up. Also got the power steering filled up. My new steering box from ford is leaking from the top adjustment nut[verymad] I've tried tightening it, but no luck.

Took it for a short spin. Everything seems to work so far (No tach yet). It shifts very firm. Not sure how the wife is going to respond to that yet... You can hear the turbo whistlin' :cool:

I need to get the gauges in so I can see what's going on.

Here's some more pics...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09459.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09460.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09462.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09461.jpg

rip 112
12-02-2007, 08:56 PM
Beautiful. Hopefully the shifts get better as it breaks in.

rbrettctd
12-02-2007, 09:02 PM
Very nice job!!! And in less than a month to boot...

It took me a little over a month to swap from an auto to manual tranny, and it was a direct bolt in....wish I had your persistence lol.

Raspy
12-02-2007, 09:04 PM
5.9,

That is a great job. Very cool. I'm wondering if you can get the valve cover off for valve adjustment. Maybe you mentioned that but I didn't see it.

Thanks,

John

stock03
12-02-2007, 09:24 PM
That is a cool project. I only dream about stuff like that. Good job!

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 09:39 PM
5.9,

That is a great job. Very cool. I'm wondering if you can get the valve cover off for valve adjustment. Maybe you mentioned that but I didn't see it.

Thanks,

John

Yes, there is enough room to do it (it appears so anyway). I need to pull it off in a week or so to retorque the head studs and then readjust the valves again. Maybe I'll take some more pics...

Rick WA
12-02-2007, 10:22 PM
Ok,

I have to ask this: Did you buy a donor truck? or did you just get the "stuff" needed to do the job and why a 24v vs a 12v (electronic vs mechanical injection etc)

Thanks for the info btw on the transfer case bolt pattern!


Regards,


Rick

bumpytruck
12-02-2007, 10:32 PM
This is going to throw a wrench into the Ford owns Cummins debate! [laugh]

5.9Excursion
12-02-2007, 10:43 PM
Ok,

I have to ask this: Did you buy a donor truck? or did you just get the "stuff" needed to do the job and why a 24v vs a 12v (electronic vs mechanical injection etc)

Thanks for the info btw on the transfer case bolt pattern!


Regards,


Rick


No donor vehicle, just bought what was needed. I went with a common rail electronic engine due to the hp potential and the ability to turn the power up and down with a box or two.

Jesse

TexasCTD
12-03-2007, 02:30 AM
Jesse,

Awesome job!! I am very impressed. You are a very talented individual to pull this off so......relatively ........easily.:cool:


Make sure you put some Cummins Badges on that thing....so all the other soccer moms know NOT to mess with the Misses with her Black Coal smoke blowing monster. [laugh]

..

bsj04
12-03-2007, 04:39 AM
nice job on the swap. just wondering what your grand total came up to? great job on keeping everybody posted and for the great pictures!

5.9Excursion
12-03-2007, 10:06 AM
Thanks guys, it has been a long work in progress even though I only started the tear down exactly one month ago. The idea started back when I decided to sell our last family rig (95 Chevy Suburban w/ 6.5 TD) over a year ago. I've been researching, researching, buying parts, taking notes, and did I mention researching?

At this point I would have to guess on the dollars, I plan to add up all the receipts and find out for sure. I bought the excursion (V10 w/ 100k on it) for around 10k last year. I've probably spent $16,500 on all the parts (including a brand new 305/555 engine, and 48RE trans). I've sold $2000 worth of parts not needed, and still need to sell the V10 and ford 4R100 (maybe $1500). So in the end, the total would be 10+16.5-2-1.5= $23,000. Not too bad, I'd say. I would have to mention that I could never do another one for this price, I ran across so many great deals on things by watching the classifieds and ebay for over a year while accumulating parts.

However, I can't even throw out a figure for the amount of hours I've put into this. Many many nights working till early morning. The little things really take time to figure out. I also took off almost 2 weeks of work during the last month to get this done. My wife already told me that I'm never going to do something like this again [nonono]

Only time will tell I guess [coffee]

5.9Excursion
12-03-2007, 10:12 AM
So how long should I break the engine in before I put a smarty on it?

Got my signature updated :D

rufushusky
12-03-2007, 10:13 AM
Wow man looks like it came from the factory that way.

rip 112
12-03-2007, 12:17 PM
With it brand new, I would put one on it after your first oil change, but not get too crazy with it. I would step up programs gradually. JMHO

haloman
12-03-2007, 05:40 PM
Yea dont get crazy right off the bat. Drive it around 5-7k miles to let everything get kosher and all the kinks worked out.

DiEseLjunKy
12-03-2007, 06:13 PM
Where are the finished pics? You slap some "C" badges on there?

bsj04
12-03-2007, 08:34 PM
However, I can't even throw out a figure for the amount of hours I've put into this. Many many nights working till early morning. The little things really take time to figure out. I also took off almost 2 weeks of work during the last month to get this done. My wife already told me that I'm never going to do something like this again [nonono]

Only time will tell I guess [coffee]

i was starting to wonder if you were self-employed or un-employed. looks like alot of time went into the project but will be well worth it in the long run!
i think many people admire your skills

5.9Excursion
12-03-2007, 08:44 PM
Went for another drive this evening, first thing I noticed on the laptop was that there was noise on the TPS signal to the trans controller. Tried to do a APPS learn procedure from memory (still need to look it up and see if I did it correct). It seemed to cure the problem. Everything went good. Power wise it seems ok, I don't know what a stock 305 motor should feel like? Everything is a step back from my other truck...

Anyway, I learned the Ford starting circuit can't support the cummins start wire current. Blew a fuse and wouldn't start while in town. Had to pop the hood and touch the right wire to the battery to get it fired up. I guess that circuit will need it's own relay.

1-2, and 2-3 shift is good now. 3-4 is harsh and seems weird. TCC lockup is hard as well. Something about the 3-4 isn't right. Need more drive time to explain it better.

Also, it has some valvetrain noise or injector rattle noise that I don't think should be there.

I'm wondering, does the CP3 get timed? Maybe since this engine wasn't ever installed in a truck, and it isn't a dealer supplied crate engine, maybe the pump hasn't ever been timed? Thinking outloud here.

Still need to get my gauges installed... hopefully tomorrow.

5.9Excursion
12-03-2007, 08:48 PM
i was starting to wonder if you were self-employed or un-employed.

My wife kept telling me I was going to get fired (getting to work late after working all night), taking alot of vacation with short notice, etc. I said hopefully they would fire me and I could start doing cummins conversions full time.[coffee]

However, I would build a nice shop first, I'm not doing this again in the driveway.[nonono]

rjm022
12-03-2007, 08:51 PM
excellent job! my hat goes off to you!! after that- you deserve a nice, large heated work shop!!!!

Raspy
12-03-2007, 08:55 PM
5.9,

I can't tell from your sig if you are familiar with Dodge tranny shift weirdness. The "normal" 3-4 shift seems strange cause it also includes lockup sometimes and it is kind of a drawn out affair with a little rev in the middle. Is that what you mean? Maybe you're familiar with it already.

John

gator45
12-03-2007, 08:57 PM
where are you located. so i can get inline for a conversion. that is awsome truck

5.9Excursion
12-03-2007, 09:36 PM
Not familiar with it at all, only ridden in one built auto truck, briefly. It ran like a raped ape until he tried a boosted 4x4 launch on the pavement:o Had to get towed back to the shop...

Anyways, yes it is a long drawn out shift with what seemed like a rev in it somewhat. This particular time or two, the TCC lockup came after the 3-4 shift.

I think the ATS controller can change this, Joel at ATS is supposed to call me back tomorrow.

Gator45, I'm in the SE corner of Nebraska...

I just edited my last few posts for spelling, I was typing in a hurry, trying to get all 5 kids fed and in bed.

53 willys
12-03-2007, 10:27 PM
great job!!!!!
engine swaps like this can take forever but you pulled it off pretty dang fast!!!!
well done.
that intake looks great in there too.
BTW the CP3's are not timed...I thought I read somewhere that you could tweak something with the mounting bolts or drive gear but I cant remember where??? but if you look in the book it will tell you they can NOT be timed.
again great job

GasganoFJ60
12-04-2007, 02:51 PM
Very impressive!!
So when do we get to see some video?
Even better, when do we get to see your Excursion featured in a diesel magazine?

5.9Excursion
12-04-2007, 03:27 PM
Well, first things first. I need to get the gauges in. Also need to get my battery tray built so I can get the second battery installed (it gets cold here and we are going to need it). Steering box leak needs fixed. Need to come up with a tach signal. My Smarty should be here friday so I can ensure I don't have any codes set. Also needs a head stud re-torque soon. At some point I'll get some nice finished pictures and even some video.

rufushusky
12-04-2007, 03:30 PM
Well, first things first. I need to get the gauges in. Also need to get my battery tray built so I can get the second battery installed (it gets cold here and we are going to need it). Steering box leak needs fixed. Need to come up with a tach signal. My Smarty should be here friday so I can ensure I don't have any codes set. Also needs a head stud re-torque soon. At some point I'll get some nice finished pictures and even some video.

Awesome man you need to get that in a magazine!

Dieseldude4x4
12-05-2007, 07:00 AM
I am totally impressed and yes I could tell all the way through the article that you had obviously researched this a lot and then some. I didn't see anything on engine and trans mounts. What did you do there?
Very nice, I wish I had your energey level to tackle something like this in that amount of time with your really cool (literally) garage.

5.9Excursion
12-05-2007, 09:04 AM
I used the quad engine mounts from Autoworld. Very beefy, probably not necessary though. I believe if you use the standard mounts, you don't have to move the ECM off the block (and make it much easier to install).

I got all the gauges installed last night and work great. I'll get a picture taken, the four gauges are mounted up above the rearview mirror.

Next up is wiring the dataport, so I can get my Smarty hooked up when it gets here hopefully tomorrow.

Maybe friday I can get the power steering box leak fixed and also get the AC line modified and put in.

I have no experience really with a 3rd gen dodge and an aftermarket torque convertor. I assume since it is more efficienct (less slipping), that when you shift to drive or reverse it is normal to have to hold the break pretty good to keep from moving? Either that or it is idling higher than normal. No tach yet, so I don't know what the idling rpms are. I seem to remember someone else having this problem and it was due to no vehicle speed signal to the ECM, I'll have to look into that...

Hammily
12-05-2007, 10:21 AM
What are you going to do to get the tach working? I bought something from Dakota Digital but have not hooked it up yet. They told me it would work to get the signal from the Cummins and convert it to the V10 instrument cluster. I hope to try hooking it up soon, but the way you have been going you will get yours working before mine.

5.9Excursion
12-05-2007, 10:40 AM
The cummins ECM has an output of the crankshaft position signal, not sure of the voltages, but it should be a pulsed output (60 teeth on tone wheel) so 60 pulses per revolution of the crank. Hopefully I can do something with this to get it to work. Do you have any idea what sort of signal the V10 cluster is expecting for the tach? What does the dakota digital device provide for an output?

dj_souvlaki
12-05-2007, 11:22 AM
i honestly gotta say this is an amazing build. i wish i had the time and the patience and also the money wouldn't hurt to do something like this.


good job!!!!!!

RocketJohn
12-05-2007, 02:58 PM
what an awesome project!

Hammily
12-06-2007, 08:25 AM
This is the unit that I bought. I called them told them what I was doing and this is what they said I needed. I do hope to be trying it soon.
You can also check out the installation manual to see what you need to make it work.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=127/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd127.htm

MJDiesel
12-06-2007, 08:55 AM
It looks great, and it didn't even take you much time to get it done, 5.9ex! It should be a great vehicle!

Buckshotram
12-06-2007, 06:57 PM
One cool swap you deff got some wrenching skill cant wait for some vids.

5.9Excursion
12-07-2007, 03:01 PM
Got the dataport wired up yesterday. Plugged my Smarty in to read codes. Cleared them all. Went for a drive, only 4 codes now. Two related to fuel level sensor (not hooked up), one for no VIN number in the ECM, and one for a J1850 ckt short to ground.

Getting a VIN number put in here in a little while (thanks to ebay[laugh]). I'm hoping the other code (J1850) will go away with it. I don't have any idea what it is about. P1652 is the code.

Looked at all the sensor readings with a DRB scanner earlier today. Everything looks like it is working fine. Idle fuel rail pressure was 5600 psi, rev'd it up and it got to 16,000 psi. Seems to be working ok. Fan speed was being displayed, coolant temp, rpms (idle was 750) I must have got the wiring done right I guess.

Currently wiring up some LEDs so I can watch when the intake heaters are on.

5.9Excursion
12-07-2007, 05:27 PM
Got the VIN # put in the ECM to clear up that code. Now I just have code P1652 to worry about.

I also have no self control, so I loaded smarty SW#2 already. Nice increase in power.

We have snow on the ground and my ABS isn't working at the moment. Let's just say my torque convertor makes it tough to not push the front end around when trying to stop on the snow/ice:o

Dangerous Dave
12-07-2007, 05:34 PM
Get some video! It sounds like a Bang Up job!

Grey Wolf
12-07-2007, 06:58 PM
Got the VIN # put in the ECM to clear up that code. Now I just have code P1652 to worry about.

I also have no self control, so I loaded smarty SW#2 already. Nice increase in power.

We have snow on the ground and my ABS isn't working at the moment. Let's just say my torque convertor makes it tough to not push the front end around when trying to stop on the snow/ice:o


Looking good:cool:


P1652 code is "IAC Monitor Disabled by PSP Switch Failed On" in case you haven't found it yet.....

75Dodge
12-07-2007, 07:07 PM
Dude that is friggin' SWEET!

RocketJohn
12-07-2007, 09:25 PM
nice job... I've shown many friends this thread... they all give the big thumbs up!

5.9Excursion
12-07-2007, 09:50 PM
Looking good:cool:


P1652 code is "IAC Monitor Disabled by PSP Switch Failed On" in case you haven't found it yet.....

Does this apply though? (no power steering pressure switch on a diesel) Both the smarty and the DRB scanner said P1652 was "J1850 short to ground".

Somewhere in a dodge manual the dealer had (not in my service manual) it said for this code to check the resistance between the J1850 circuit in the ECM harness and battery negative. If it wasn't less than 10 ohms then replace the ECM. If it was less than 10 ohms, then measure between the J1850 ciruit and all the other circuits in both connectors. If resistance was greater than 100 kohms refer to the body diagnostic book communication section, if not greater than 100 kohms, repair the J1850 shorted to another circuit.

The real issue was that no where is the J1850 circuit described or labeled? I don't have any idea which wires these are, so I can't check the resistances. I don't have any clue what the J1850 circuit is used for?

Any ideas?

vzdude
12-07-2007, 09:58 PM
P1652-J1850 SHORT TO GROUND




For a complete wiring diagram Refer to Section 8W.

When Monitored:
While the ignition is on.

Set Condition:
The ECM detects a short to ground on the J1850.

Possible Causes
ECM
(D25) J1850 SHORTED
COMMUNICATION


Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before proceeding. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING)

Diagnostic Test
1. ECM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the ECM harness connectors.

NOTE: Check connectors - Clean/repair as necessary.


Measure the resistance between the (D25) J1850 circuit in the ECM harness connector and battery negative.

Is the resistance less than 10 Ohms?

Yes
Go To 2

No
Replace the ECM.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 (DIESEL). (Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULES/ENGINE CONTROL MODULE - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING)



2. (D25) J1850 SHORTED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Measure the resistance between the (D25) J1850 circuit and all other circuits in both ECM connectors.

Is the resistance greater than 100k ohms?

Yes
Refer to the Body Diagnostic book Communications section.

No
Repair (D25) J1850 shorted to another circuit.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 1 (DIESEL). (Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULES/ENGINE CONTROL MODULE - DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING)

vzdude
12-07-2007, 10:00 PM
message too short to add attatchments!

5.9Excursion
12-07-2007, 11:17 PM
Awesome, thanks for the info. Exactly what I needed.

I'll have to do some checking tomorrow and see if I can correct it. I don't believe I even need the PCI bus for anything in my case.

5.9Excursion
12-07-2007, 11:46 PM
Did some thinking on the info posted above. On my engine circuit D25 goes directly from the ECM connector to connector C108. I wired this to the dataport inside the truck. That's the only place is goes. So during normal conditions, it isn't connected to anything. The ECM expects it to be connected to all the other devices on the PCI bus. Not sure why the code would say shorted to ground, may it actually means no communication present? The wire is open ended, just floating (no voltage or ground present). I just ran out and checked the resistance from this point (dataport) and ground and got 5 M ohms (so no short circuit is present).

I wonder if this code hurts anything? limp mode or ???

Grey Wolf
12-08-2007, 09:48 AM
Well vzdude has really got you covered maybe he has some insite on this?

vzdude
12-08-2007, 11:20 AM
I don't think it will cause you any trouble. Like the diagram says, it is basically for communication woth other modules, and I'm guessing you aren't doing that in yer Ferd! LOL The only thing that concerns me, is that according to the diagnostics, if there isn't a short to ground ( like the code indicates ) then there may be a faulty ecm. That would be the only thing to "raise my eyebrows".

5.9Excursion
12-08-2007, 07:19 PM
Did some digging in the service manual and found out the PCM is the dominant node for the PCI bus, therefore it would normally terminate the bus through a 1 KW resistor and a 3300 pF capacitor. The ECM doesn't see this and is throwing the code (I think). I'm going to terminate the PCI bus like it says in the manual and it should make it go away.

The only other codes I have are related to the fuel level signal. It is expecting a resistance from the tank level sendor and doesn't have one right now. I need to find out what the resistance range is supposed to be and install a resistor from this location to the sensor ground to clear these codes.

Also noticed in the wiring manual that the fuel heater is always supposed to be on. I figured it only came on when needed, but per the wiring it is on when ever the key is in Run or Start. I currently don't have it hooked up yet.

wcbcruzer
12-08-2007, 07:46 PM
You're doing all that in your driveway? Nice job...

5.9Excursion
12-08-2007, 08:17 PM
Yeah, wasn't easy. Engine hoists don't like to roll on the gravel so I just rolled the vehicle forward once it was time. Here's a few more pics...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08940.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC08955.jpg

53 willys
12-08-2007, 08:54 PM
I love that first pic!!!!http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/images/smilies/laughing.gifway to make it happen with what you got!!http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/images/smilies/cool.gif

kingofdodge7131
12-08-2007, 09:03 PM
What do you mean thanks to ebay for the vin?

I got a rebuilt CR engine for a 00 that I have and ive had the same code. Just wondering what your fix was. I just live with it myself. hasnt bothered me But if its an easy fix why ont

Pilgrimjt
12-08-2007, 10:31 PM
The only other codes I have are related to the fuel level signal. It is expecting a resistance from the tank level sendor and doesn't have one right now. I need to find out what the resistance range is supposed to be and install a resistor from this location to the sensor ground to clear these codes.

Also noticed in the wiring manual that the fuel heater is always supposed to be on. I figured it only came on when needed, but per the wiring it is on when ever the key is in Run or Start. I currently don't have it hooked up yet.

How about tranny codes? Since I put in the stand-alone contoller in my Excursion I've had three different codes. Just wondering if you know of a way to clear those.

Nice job! Looking real good so far.

5.9Excursion
12-08-2007, 11:02 PM
My ECM never had a VIN # programmed into it from the factory, so I just needed to find a VIN from another truck (same year, same hp rating, same tranny setup). In less than one minute I found one on ebay (VIN numbers are typically listed in the ad). A trip to my dealer and with a DRB scanner they programmed the VIN # in for me. I also heard from Bob Wagner that many 2003 dodges left the factory somehow missing the last 4 digits of the VIN in the ECM. Same fix for those, except they already have the complete VIN assigned to the truck.

Jake, what specific codes are you seeing that are tranny related? I haven't had one since I started that was tranny related...

Just today I got 3 digital inputs (trans controller) and the crankshaft position signal ran into the cab. Need to get some switches installed so I can swap transmission calibration files on the fly. Probably going to use the dakota digital box to get the tach going. Talked to PCS about the controller and they didn't think they could run the tach even if I did get the crank signal into the controller.

It's about 10 degrees out, freezing rain, should hit 0 tonight. I'll see how well it can start with one battery tomorrow...

wannadiesel
12-09-2007, 08:02 AM
Also noticed in the wiring manual that the fuel heater is always supposed to be on. I figured it only came on when needed, but per the wiring it is on when ever the key is in Run or Start. I currently don't have it hooked up yet.Fuel heater has an internal thermal switch.

5.9Excursion
12-09-2007, 10:10 AM
Thanks wannadiesel, I didn't know that.

Pilgrimjt
12-09-2007, 02:43 PM
I don't remember the codes right now but I know that they are directly related to the fact that there is no tranny input to the ecm since I plugged the ATS controller. The codes are not causing any problems as far as I can tell. It's just that they are always there and if I could find a way to remove them I would.

Hammily
12-09-2007, 02:48 PM
I hooked up the Digital Dakota box but don't have it working right yet. When I start the engine the tach shows about 500 rpm and will go up, but not much over 1200rpm. Then after about 10 seconds it the needle on the tach goes 0 and stays there until I restart again. I think I hooked it up according to their instructions I even tried several other possibilities. I will call them tomorrow and see if I can get to the bottom of it.

5.9Excursion
12-09-2007, 04:36 PM
I spoke with dakota digital last week and they said I should get the diesel specific one. It was about $65. I told them the crank pulses 60 times per revolution and the gas tach is expecting 5 pulses per revolution (V10 engine), they said it should work... I'll find out this week.

I spent some time today (inside) getting some more wiring done. Here's a pic showing my relay wiring for the fuel heater, 3 switches for inputs to the tranny (ignore the switch that says rear locker), and my other wiring loom that does the following...

2 LEDs for when the intake heaters are on, a resistance value to simulate a normal fuel level (to clear some codes), and a termination circuit for the PCI bus (to hopefully also clear a code).

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC09561.jpg

Stargate2112
12-10-2007, 02:13 AM
Hammily - If you don't mind me asking, Where did you get this Cummins Badge at?

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/attachment.php?attachmentid=17352&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1196524570

I've been looking all over the internet, and I can't find it anywhere. Think it would look very nice for my project coming up... :)

Rob

TexasCTD
12-10-2007, 02:56 AM
Hammily - If you don't mind me asking, Where did you get this Cummins Badge at?

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/attachment.php?attachmentid=17352&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1196524570

I've been looking all over the internet, and I can't find it anywhere. Think it would look very nice for my project coming up... :)

Rob



http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BP-55078116-AA

http://www.genosgarage.com/products.asp?dept=60

..

5.9Excursion
12-10-2007, 11:21 AM
I think the POWER WAGON would look good on the back of the excursion, what do you think?

http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BP-55077758-AA

wreedCTD
12-10-2007, 01:32 PM
I think the POWER WAGON would look good on the back of the excursion, what do you think?

http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BP-55077758-AA

No I think to many logos especially big one look tacky.

Aggie007
12-10-2007, 02:04 PM
My ECM never had a VIN # programmed into it from the factory, so I just needed to find a VIN from another truck (same year, same hp rating, same tranny setup). In less than one minute I found one on ebay (VIN numbers are typically listed in the ad). A trip to my dealer and with a DRB scanner they programmed the VIN # in for me. I also heard from Bob Wagner that many 2003 dodges left the factory somehow missing the last 4 digits of the VIN in the ECM. Same fix for those, except they already have the complete VIN assigned to the truck.

Jake, what specific codes are you seeing that are tranny related? I haven't had one since I started that was tranny related...

Just today I got 3 digital inputs (trans controller) and the crankshaft position signal ran into the cab. Need to get some switches installed so I can swap transmission calibration files on the fly. Probably going to use the dakota digital box to get the tach going. Talked to PCS about the controller and they didn't think they could run the tach even if I did get the crank signal into the controller.

It's about 10 degrees out, freezing rain, should hit 0 tonight. I'll see how well it can start with one battery tomorrow...

I am in the process of dropping in a '03 CTD in my '99 Ford F250. You only need a VIN # if you are going to run software like a smarty right? From my understanding you don't need a VIN # to start it.

Also, when you run dual batteries, you just have one as a back up, still wired 12V or do you wire them up to be 24V?

You have definitely lost me in the electronics discussion. Scott at Destroked has a external tach-kit that bolts to the crank and has an autometer sensor that you can wire to the factory tach signal wire to the PCM to get the factory tach to work.

5.9Excursion
12-10-2007, 02:09 PM
My engine started and ran fine on the test stand with no VIN in the ECM.

When running two batteries, they are hooked up in paralle (positive to positive) and (neg to neg). You only have 12V this way but twice the cranking amperage for starting.

A couple different places sell entire tach kits that use their own sensor and you have to mount it near the crank. I just thought since the engine already has it's own sensor, why not use it? Hopefully, the box I got from dakota digital will do the trick (and it's only $65)...

We are expecting 1/2" of ice tonight so it may be a while before I can get into the Excursion to see if my latest wiring will resolve my codes...

bumpytruck
12-10-2007, 02:10 PM
I think the POWER WAGON would look good on the back of the excursion, what do you think?

http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BP-55077758-AA

If you don't mind badges I think thats real cleaver. Maybe eliminate all the excursion stuff and replace em with the Power Wagon.

Aggie007
12-10-2007, 02:52 PM
My engine started and ran fine on the test stand with no VIN in the ECM.

When running two batteries, they are hooked up in paralle (positive to positive) and (neg to neg). You only have 12V this way but twice the cranking amperage for starting.

A couple different places sell entire tach kits that use their own sensor and you have to mount it near the crank. I just thought since the engine already has it's own sensor, why not use it? Hopefully, the box I got from dakota digital will do the trick (and it's only $65)...

We are expecting 1/2" of ice tonight so it may be a while before I can get into the Excursion to see if my latest wiring will resolve my codes...

I was always curious if the diesel starter was 12V or 24V, sounds like 12V.

For the vacuum since you got rid of the vacuum booster for a hydroboost, did you get a PSD vacuum motor, the one on the passenger inner fender, I think it runs 18lbs of vacuum then cuts off. I believe you will need it for the a/c and if you have auto locking hubs. If so how did you wire that in.

Did you leave your engine harness from the V10 plugged in or just make a new harness for the sensors you need to run to the PCM for the gauges?

I was told you can't get the Ford service engine light to go off unless you cut the wire?

Also, what wires (from the Cummins ECM) did you run to the Data Port (obdII port under the dash), and which wires did you splice into (data port wires), I was told you only need two wires.

BTW, you have done an excellent job. Here is a link for pics of my build that I have completed so far. I plan on dropping in the engine this weekend, this is the reason for all the questions.
http://www.truckblog.com/gallery/gallery.asp?gid=435&JumpTo=0%7C1161

5.9Excursion
12-10-2007, 03:26 PM
I used the PSD vacuum motor, just wire it up to have 12V any time the key is in RUN. (don't know the setpoint, but it runs to a point then shuts itself off).

I disconnecting both big connectors that went to the V10 and them spliced into the wires I needed for running the gauges.

The Ford SES light is driven by the PCM on the truck. The PCM talks to all the equipment on the truck using the PCI bus (I think) to determine if everything is ok. If it isn't, the PCM will turn on the light. At this point I really don't care what the Ford PCM thinks is going on, so yes that connection will get cut. However, I'm researching how I can get my cummins ECM to turn on the light if a code is present. More to come.

Just look at the appropriate year service manual to determine which wires you need for the dataport (look at the connector pinout section). I installed a second port for the cummins ECM. I needed two ground wires, a fused 12V wire, two communication wires (circuits D20 & D21 I think), and the PCI bus (which I don't think is necessary).

Stargate2112
12-10-2007, 08:23 PM
TexasCTD - Thanks for the links, I've now got them bookmarked for near future reference...

Rob

Aggie007
12-11-2007, 08:25 AM
Just look at the appropriate year service manual to determine which wires you need for the dataport (look at the connector pinout section). I installed a second port for the cummins ECM. I needed two ground wires, a fused 12V wire, two communication wires (circuits D20 & D21 I think), and the PCI bus (which I don't think is necessary).

The ECM has CCD Bus (+) D1 VT/BR, CCD Bus (-) D2 WT/BK, SCI Receive D21 PK, and SCI Transmit D20 LG.

Data Link Connector Engine Diesel which is a 3 pin connector:
A) D1 VT/BR CCD Bus (+)
B) D2 WT/BK CCD Bus (-)
C) Z11 BK/WT Ground

Then you have the Data Link Connector which is a 16 pin connector which shows the D20 and D21.

"The CCD bus + and - circuits are for communication between all of the OBD2 devices in the vehicle including PCM, TCM, airbag module, and sentry immobilizer key. All of these devices have a SCI transmit wire going to the Data Link connector though the PCM also has a SCI receive wire. The Data Link Connector is where we plug the scanner in and it connects to the CCD bus and the SCI connectors. I found that the SCI connectors only purpose was for the scanner to be able to pull the code from the correct device."

It seems since the ECM stores the codes you have to connect to the SCI wires and take those to the Data Link Connector in order to pull the codes? Basically the CCD talks to the ECM which talks to the Data Link Connector (scanner when hooked up)....correct me if I am wrong.

Since you are running the ATS trans control, I wonder if you can wire to the TCM ports on the Data Link Connector and read tranny codes. I am running the PCS, I will have to call and ask, definitely put icing on the cake.

5.9Excursion
12-11-2007, 02:09 PM
The SCI transmit and receive get wired to the dataport inside the cab (16 pin), that is what talks with my Smarty or a DRB scanner (I've done both to verify it works).

PCS controller / ATS controller = same thing.

PCS makes the controller, ATS just markets it for a 47RE or 48RE because you have to use the ATS manual valvebody in order for it to work.

duratothemax
12-11-2007, 04:25 PM
However, I'm researching how I can get my cummins ECM to turn on the light if a code is present.

IIRC the EPA J1972 OBD standards dictate that the MIL-request wire has to be on a dedicated circuit when its wired into the instrument cluster...ie, it cant send the message to the cluster to turn the MIL on over the data bus.

maybe try to find the pinout for the excursion cluster, and then just find the pin on the cummins ECM...usually the ECM's just ground the wire internally when they want to turn the MIL on. Either that or its the other way around (ECM provides 12v on the MIL request wire). If I had to guess tho, I think the ECM grounds a wire due to the limitations of the drivers/transistors in the ECM........thats just my best guess

Keep up the good work...looking forward to seeing pics and videos of it all done.

ben

Mo Smoke
12-11-2007, 04:51 PM
Mine was on Pin#2 of the Ford PCM

5.9Excursion
12-11-2007, 09:13 PM
IIRC the EPA J1972 OBD standards dictate that the MIL-request wire has to be on a dedicated circuit when its wired into the instrument cluster...ie, it cant send the message to the cluster to turn the MIL on over the data bus.

maybe try to find the pinout for the excursion cluster, and then just find the pin on the cummins ECM...usually the ECM's just ground the wire internally when they want to turn the MIL on. Either that or its the other way around (ECM provides 12v on the MIL request wire). If I had to guess tho, I think the ECM grounds a wire due to the limitations of the drivers/transistors in the ECM........thats just my best guess

Keep up the good work...looking forward to seeing pics and videos of it all done.

ben

The light is controlled by a single wire from the Ford PCM, I assume it just grounds the wire to turn it on (it's been a few days since I looked at the wiring). Based on what I have seen the cummins ECM doesn't control the MIL light on a dodge truck, it "talks" to the dodge PCM and the dodge PCM controls the light. It's like I need a device to "talk" to the cummins ECM and then when a code is present it should ground the necessary wire.

The excursion is going to sit for a few days as it still only has one battery and it's going to be very cold for a while yet. We got over 1" of ice in the last two days. Most if not all of our trees are now limbless:o

The wife told me I should go buy myself a chainsaw for christmas, so I've been cutting branches up all day with my new Stihl MS 390 chainsaw (http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS390.html):cool:

farmer0_1
12-12-2007, 12:33 AM
just came accross this thread tonight all i can say is wow . i know it was said before but wow. i have built cars from no frames on up but the sensors and wiring on this newer stuff just makes twice the work. glad you can get thru it all. i am tired just reading all this work and outside in winter to boot. must be a young guy . i feel for you guys and the ice storm we get that here in oregon every couple years. stay away from those power lines. and buy the wife something nice for all the extra work that came her way during all this. you don't just park five kids for a couple hours a nite. good luck

Aggie007
12-12-2007, 01:04 PM
I saw where you spliced in for the a/c lines, which I doubt have got much use since its freezing over there (just remember its 80* outside here), but did you use the Cummins wiring or the Ford wiring to the a/c compressor?

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 01:19 PM
I haven't actually done the splicing yet. It's somewhat complicated how the AC lines will get done. My local shop that can crimp the connections uses fittings that crimp to a hose on one end and use a compression fitting on the other... So it isn't like a factory hose, I would think the compression fitting may leak?

So I spoke with a shop that can weld aluminum. He can butt weld the lines together for me (but will take some work since the weld will be close to the hose and aluminum dissapates heat very very well).

I trial fitted the dodge line in and since I clocked my turbo housing to better fit the engine compartment, the intercooler line hits the AC line. So I officially decided to wait until spring to work on that portion. It's so stinkin' cold...

Regarding the wiring, you would use the ford wiring and splice the dodge plug onto it in place of the ford plug. You have to get the wires correct or you will toast the diode (I was told anyways). I haven't looked into it yet. The pressure switch unscrewed from the ford line and screwed right into the dodge line.

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 01:22 PM
you don't just park five kids for a couple hours a nite. good luck

If you've ever been around our kids, you know you can't park them for 5 minutes...[laugh]

Yeah, I owe the wife big time for all of this...

Aggie007
12-12-2007, 01:28 PM
Without the a/c lines hooked up or the compressor wired, is the clutch engaged, I was curious if you can drive around without the a/c plumbed or wired but still on the drive belt?

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 01:32 PM
The clutch is not engaged so you can drive it that way. You just need to plug the holes in the compressor (I actually made a cover and bolted it onto the compressor to keep stuff out).

Aggie007
12-12-2007, 01:44 PM
The clutch is not engaged so you can drive it that way. You just need to plug the holes in the compressor (I actually made a cover and bolted it onto the compressor to keep stuff out).

Your quick on the answers.....thanks....actually the compressor I bought came with a cover for the holes.

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 02:18 PM
The light is controlled by a single wire from the Ford PCM, I assume it just grounds the wire to turn it on (it's been a few days since I looked at the wiring). Based on what I have seen the cummins ECM doesn't control the MIL light on a dodge truck, it "talks" to the dodge PCM and the dodge PCM controls the light. It's like I need a device to "talk" to the cummins ECM and then when a code is present it should ground the necessary wire.

The excursion is going to sit for a few days as it still only has one battery and it's going to be very cold for a while yet. We got over 1" of ice in the last two days. Most if not all of our trees are now limbless:o

The wife told me I should go buy myself a chainsaw for christmas, so I've been cutting branches up all day with my new Stihl MS 390 chainsaw (http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS390.html):cool:


so the Cummins ECM doesnt have its own MIL-request wire?

So is it like there are two ECM's so to speak? There is the Cummins ECM, and then it speaks to another Dodge ECM...then the dodge ECM drives the transmission and worrys about sending data to the cluster, and making the cummins ECM talk to the rest of the body...? Seems like kinda a clumsy roundabout way of doing it...why not just have the CTD ECM do all of that directly? I guess its sort of the same situation as the Dmax tho, the Allison has its own separate transmission computer (which is the same one as used on all allison transmissions)...BUT the allison is programmed to not only talk to the dmax ECM, but it can also talk to the GM body computer directly to relay trans temp data to the instrument cluster, MIL request wire, and PRND321 display status along with reverse light data etc...

is it like that or is it something different???

what data protocol does the cummins ECM speak? I would think at the very minimum it would speak sae J-1939 CAN 1, because that is the accepted standard in the medium duty world. Does it also speak something else to the OBD port for EPA compliance? Usually its J1850 VPW (GM), J1850 PWM (ford), ISO9091 (asian vehicles), and then chrysler uses something different, but pretty similar to the ISO bus used by asian and european vehicles...all of these "basic" slow data busses must be present to allow generic OBD code readers to diagnose emmissions problems, not just the chrysler DRB tool or hte GM Tech 2.

just out of curiosity, how many pins does a dodge OBD port have? The bare minimum should be Power, 2 ground pins, and the 4th pin broadcasts the standard OBD-compliant basic data bus.......

ben

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 02:22 PM
Yes, you described it correctly. The engine has its ECM. The truck has a PCM for trans control, driving the cluster, talking with all the other body electronics, etc. There is no MIL control wire from the engine ECM.

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 02:26 PM
Yes, you described it correctly. The engine has its ECM. The truck has a PCM for trans control, driving the cluster, talking with all the other body electronics, etc. There is no MIL control wire from the engine ECM.

ahh ok....interesting....so I guess your only option would be to use the dodge PCM....unless you installed separate sensors on the engine just to drive the cluster...how does the ford cluster interperate stuff from the engine? Is it like the GM clusters where everything from oil press to trans temp to rpm to fuel level comes in over a single data bus wire, or are there descrete wires for each guage? Sorry I just started reading this thread and havent really followed it from the first pages...so I might be asking things that were answered on the second page. [duhhh][laugh]

ben


EDIT: another quick question....does the cummins ECM and engine "need" the dodge PCM to "survive"? Does anyone have the pinouts for the cummins ECM itself? Only potential problem I see is if the dodge PCM is needed to allow the cummins to start because of security stuff (like GM's VATS, I think chryslers is sentrykey or something??)

second EDIT: nvmind I think I found most of the answers on pages 9 and 10 :)

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 02:45 PM
No this wasn't asked or answered earlier. I believe all the sensor signals from the V10 engine were read by the Ford PCM and that drove the cluster with individual wires (I'll have to look again to be sure).

The cummins ECM uses CAN-BUS J1979 I believe (for communication with the Smarty or a DRB scanner). It also uses a PCI-bus for communication with the PCM and other components on the truck. Here's some info out of the service manual on the PCI-bus communication...

The DaimlerChrysler Programmable Communication
Interface (PCI) data bus system is a single wire
multiplex system used for vehicle communications on
many DaimlerChrysler Corporation vehicles. Multiplexing
is a system that enables the transmission of
several messages over a single channel or circuit. All
DaimlerChrysler vehicles use this principle for communication
between various microprocessor-based
electronic control modules. The PCI data bus exceeds
the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1850
Standard for Class B Multiplexing.

Attached is the pinout of the dataport connector from the manual... Pins 7 & 12 communicate with the ECM. The TCM is the dodge transmission control (normally refer'd to as the PCM). Terminology gets confusing because the manual also covers gassers...

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 02:50 PM
Only potential problem I see is if the dodge PCM is needed to allow the cummins to start because of security stuff (like GM's VATS, I think chryslers is sentrykey or something??)

It's called the SENTRY KEY IMMOBILIZER MODULE

DESCRIPTION

The Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM) contains
a Radio Frequency (RF) transceiver and a central
processing unit, which includes the Sentry Key
Immobilizer System (SKIS) program logic. The SKIS
programming enables the SKIM to program and
retain in memory the codes of at least two, but no
more than eight electronically coded Sentry Key
transponders. The SKIS programming also enables
the SKIM to communicate over the Programmable
Communication Interface (PCI) bus network with the
Powertrain Control.

Not sure when it came out or if it was only an option. My engine didn't have it so I didn't have to worry about it.

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 02:58 PM
No this wasn't asked or answered earlier. I believe all the sensor signals from the V10 engine were read by the Ford PCM and that drove the cluster with individual wires (I'll have to look again to be sure).

The cummins ECM uses CAN-BUS J1979 I believe (for communication with the Smarty or a DRB scanner). It also uses a PCI-bus for communication with the PCM and other components on the truck. Here's some info out of the service manual on the PCI-bus communication..

when you say J1979...did you mean J1939? J1979 simply refers to the OBD standard protocol, the connector that must be used, and other limitations and requirments that must be met for all vehicles sold in the US....its not an actual databus, whereas J1939 is an actual data bus spec, mostly used as high speed comms for tracotr trailers and medium duty apps. This makes sense for the Cummins ECM to speak that because of its medium duty original application. Same goes for teh Allison trans in teh GM pickups...it speaks J1939 just the same because of its original intended app...

The CTD ECM speaks J1939 (the only thing it knows) to the dodge PCM...J1939 isnt allowed in the light duty EPA OBD 2 requirments so the dodge PCM I think just basically acts as a gateway between the CTD ECM and the dodge truck/obd compliance....thats the way Im reading it I think??? :confused:

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 03:05 PM
My mistake, yes I meant J1939. That's the same communication that my transmission controller will accept. I'm trying to get it upgraded to the latest revision so I can directly input this communication to the controller. That way, engine rpm, coolant temp, boost pressure, intake air temp, etc will all be displayed on my laptop realtime (the controller can be a datalogger as well).

I would agree that the dodge PCM is just acting as the middle man in the communication between J1939 and the OBD communication. So what would happen if I hook up my regular OBD code reader to this port? Does it just speak on the PCI bus? If so, I imagine it wouldn't work since the ECM isn't the dominate node on the PCI bus?

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 03:38 PM
My mistake, yes I meant J1939. That's the same communication that my transmission controller will accept. I'm trying to get it upgraded to the latest revision so I can directly input this communication to the controller. That way, engine rpm, coolant temp, boost pressure, intake air temp, etc will all be displayed on my laptop realtime (the controller can be a datalogger as well).

I would agree that the dodge PCM is just acting as the middle man in the communication between J1939 and the OBD communication. So what would happen if I hook up my regular OBD code reader to this port? Does it just speak on the PCI bus? If so, I imagine it wouldn't work since the ECM isn't the dominate node on the PCI bus?

ok I found the pinouts and wiring diagrams for the PCM (not ctd ecm) and it appears that it does hardly anything. The CTD ECM has its own PCI bus output, which could technically be hooked directly into a dodge cluster or OBD port. It seems all the PCM does on the cummins trucks is enable this "transmission relay" thing, and distribute power/IGN/run stuff....which could also just be wired directly into the cummins ECM...

Im reading the service manuals over cause I like learning about this stuff and hopefully Ill be able to make sense of it, and Ill look at the ford service manuals too...the dodge system confuses me tho....no offence but its a rats nest, hugely cluttered and confusing as @*#$ system compared to the simple and logically integrated GM electrical systems and data busses, which Im used to messing around with. I think im slowly making sense of it all tho...Ive got some work to do now but I will take a look at it more tonight and try to understand it better, because as I said I get a kick outta this wiring stuff and Id like to help you as much as I can...

Ben

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 03:46 PM
ok, yes at this point im 97% confident you can ditch the dodge PCM altogether and just [obviously] keep the CTD ECM...

dodge PCM controls fuel heater, starter, and that trans contorl relay, but those are driven from signals via the CTD ECM, so you can just mimick that witha simple 12v relay.

You can pick up the wires that need to go to the OBD port directly from the cummins ECM

On the ECM C2 connector...

Pin 28 (should be a white/ppl wire) is the PCI bus wire.
Pin 16 is the SCI transmit wire (pink)
Pin 19 is the SCI receive wire (white lt green)

PCI bus seems to be the low speed data bus that transmits info to the instrument panel cluster. At this point Im not sure how you would decode this info (oil press, rpm, etc) into something the ford cluster could understand, but ill do some more resarch..

SCI seems to be the high speed data bus that the Smarty or whatever reprograms the ECM with. So you will need to plumb all of these wires from te CTD ECM directly to the proper locations on the existing ford OBD port.

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 04:09 PM
I appreciate anything you can figure out on this. If you didn't catch it earlier on in the thread, I don't have a dodge PCM at all. Just as you said I am using the signals from the ECM to run my fuel heater (w/ a relay). I am using the ford circuity to energize the starter (w/ a relay). Don't need the transmission relay thing since I have the standalone tranny controller.

I currently have the SCI wires and the PCI bus wire from the ECM run to it's own data port under the dash. I left the ford dataport installed seperate.

The cummins has it's own engine wiring harness that connects to everything on the engine and the ECM. This harness has two connectors that connect the engine wiring harness to the truck. Those are C108 & C110, so all my connections were made right there (no splicing into wires this way).

My trans controller will accept analog or digital inputs and can then drive outputs (analog signals, PWM, etc). It will also allow the input of the parameters using CAN-BUS J1939. So if I can get all of these signals into the controller, I could send outputs out of it based upon this information (possibly a signal to drive the tach for example).

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 04:18 PM
ok so let me just get this straight...your only problems/roadblocks left are controlling the check engine light and engine guages??

ben

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 04:31 PM
Currently the only gauge that doesn't work is the tach. I just today (according to the wife) got a box from dakota digital that supposedly will turn the crankshaft position signal into a tach signal for me.

I would love to get the Ford SES light to function based upon if any codes get set in the cummins ECM. Right now this light is controlled by the ford PCM and is on obviously (haven't cut the wire yet).

I would like to get all the engine parameters into my trans controller for datalogging purposes and just because the display looks cooler when all the gauges are working.

Current codes are related to fuel level signal (working on this one yet) and J1850 ckt short to ground. This is related to the PCI bus and how the ECM isn't the dominate node of communication I think. I tried terminating the PCI circuit but I still have the code.

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 04:33 PM
Currently the only gauge that doesn't work is the tach. I just today (according to the wife) got a box from dakota digital that supposedly will turn the crankshaft position signal into a tach signal for me.

I would love to get the Ford SES light to function based upon if any codes get set in the cummins ECM. Right now this light is controlled by the ford PCM and is on obviously (haven't cut the wire yet).

I would like to get all the engine parameters into my trans controller for datalogging purposes and just because the display looks cooler when all the gauges are working.

Current codes are related to fuel level signal (working on this one yet) and J1850 ckt short to ground. This is related to the PCI bus and how the ECM isn't the dominate node of communication I think. I tried terminating the PCI circuit but I still have the code.


hmmm unfortuantly I dont think you will be able to get the SES light working...the only way its turned on (which I thought was odd) is through the PCI bus sending a data signal to the dodge instrument cluster. If you wanted to get ghetto, you could hack up a dodge IPC and tap into the wiring for the SES light on the dodge cluster.. :eek:

How did you get the oil press and fuel level guages working?

Are you sure the PCI bus needs terminating tho ? Its a single wire protocol IIRC, floats at 7 volts and is pulled to ground when a bit of data is broadcast (something like that I think), much like GM's Class 2 data. I THINK the only bus that needs terminating is the high speed SCI bus, which has two wires. The termination is to reduce crosstalk and interference between the two bus wires.

Like I said tho, im not 100% sure on any of this..

5.9Excursion
12-12-2007, 05:38 PM
I'm using the ford instrument cluster. All ford gauges are driven by the ford PCM which is receiving the sensor signals the same as before. I mounted the ford coolant temp sensor and oil pressure "switch" on the engine so all gauges work just as they did before.

I read about the PCI termination in the manual, it didn't work though.

What you said has me thinking though, the manual said the dodge PCM is the main node if you will for the PCI bus. So maybe it is what causes the one wire to float at 7 volts. If it isn't there (and it isn't), the one wire is at 0 volts, and causes the cummins ECM to see this as a short to ground somewhere?

Maybe I can just put 7 volts on the line and the code will go away?

xtoyz17
12-12-2007, 05:40 PM
I'm using the ford instrument cluster. All ford gauges are driven by the ford PCM which is receiving the sensor signals the same as before. I mounted the ford coolant temp sensor and oil pressure "switch" on the engine so all gauges work just as they did before.

I read about the PCI termination in the manual, it didn't work though.

What you said has me thinking though, the manual said the dodge PCM is the main node if you will for the PCI bus. So maybe it is what causes the one wire to float at 7 volts. If it isn't there (and it isn't), the one wire is at 0 volts, and causes the cummins ECM to see this as a short to ground somewhere?

Maybe I can just put 7 volts on the line and the code will go away?

From what I've read, and what I *think* I understand that makes sense. Radioshack probably has something you could rig up to set a voltage output.

duratothemax
12-12-2007, 05:58 PM
I'm using the ford instrument cluster. All ford gauges are driven by the ford PCM which is receiving the sensor signals the same as before. I mounted the ford coolant temp sensor and oil pressure "switch" on the engine so all gauges work just as they did before.

I read about the PCI termination in the manual, it didn't work though.

What you said has me thinking though, the manual said the dodge PCM is the main node if you will for the PCI bus. So maybe it is what causes the one wire to float at 7 volts. If it isn't there (and it isn't), the one wire is at 0 volts, and causes the cummins ECM to see this as a short to ground somewhere?

Maybe I can just put 7 volts on the line and the code will go away?

I dont know much about the PCI bus...is it configured in a star pattern? ie, does everything work together or is there a central "server"? From what you've said the PCM (or instrument cluster more likely) is this central server...this is what was confusing me because GM class 2 operates in a "star" configuration; meaning all the moduals are in one intertwined "web", and if one module drops out, the other remaining devices detect this and simply "close up" the web to exclude the missing device and everything continues to work normally. THis doesnt seem to be the case with the PCI bus.

Im not sure what voltage the PCI bus floats at, but I dont think you can just apply that voltage to the line and make it think everything is ok. Every so often (once a second maybe?), there are state-of-health messages broadcast to all of the modules on the data network. Because this SOH signal is a data message, its going to make the voltage change. If the ECM doesnt see this SOH signal for x cycles or whatever, its probably going to either keep throwing the same code or throw a Uxxxx code (loss of data communications). If you just let them all float (no terminators, not grounded, no nothing), do you still get the code thats saying its horted to ground? What you are saying makes sense tho and I think you're exactly right...nothing hooked up makes the ECM interperate it as 0 volts...

I could be completley wrong tho! I suppose its worth a shot. Usually the data link controller chips in the modules are protected against shorts and overvoltage (up to 24volts IIRC), so the worst that could most likely happen would be i would throw another Uxxxx code

thefermanator
12-14-2007, 10:54 PM
I love this post! I too am considering a similiar swap myself. I've got a 6.5 In my 95 SUBURBAN. The 6.5 has seen better days, and I am afraid she is done(block rot, previous owner never changed the coolant until he traded it in with 150K on the clock). I LOVE my SUB, but I can't justify a new 6.5 for $6K to keep her going. A CUMMINS swap seems to be my best alternative.

I may be able to help you with your J1850 code though. I used to work for DODGE up until I was disabled in 2001, and spent some time in school regarding PCI BUS technology. Basically your problem is that you have no 5 volt reference present(in 01 5 volts was the PCI standard). But even if you put 5 volts to it, you will still have no communications and almost definately will still get a code. Your short to ground code is simply 0 volts being present. The ECM sees 0 volts and assume the bus is shorted, even though it isn't shorted.

A generic OBD2 code scanner won't read ECM codes even with that hooked up. A generic scanner will look for the PCM's output to get the codes from. The newer trucks may show codes, but I know for a fact that a 2nd GEN 24V cannot be read by a generic scanner(tried it). You have to have a scanner that can access the ECM's protocol specifically in order to access it. OBD2 only states that a generic scanner must be able to read PCM codes over a universal PCI bus. But since you essentially have no PCM that can communicate with it, you essentially don't have one.

As for your check engine light, you can probably go to a CUMMINS dealer and find out if there medium duty trucks use a stand-alone controller for the generic communications and possibly a check engine light driver. There is probably a generic module that can read the J1939 data to turn on the check engine light for medium duty applications where there is no PCM.

You could try hooking your PCI bus up to the vehicles PCI bus, but I have no idea how the FORD's BUS system will take to a foreign module being present. All you would have to do is make a jumper from pin 5 of your new connector, to the PCI bus pin in your old connector(most likely pin #5 in it as well). I have no idea what this will do though unfortunately. You may be able to have a custom flash put in the PCM to allow the ECM totalk to it, but I don't know what program to use with FORD'S. GM can use EFI LIVE to hack the ECM.

Hopefully some of my info helped, and keep us posted on her. I'm starting to get a major itch to go nuts and slap a CUMMINS common rail in my SUB.

duratothemax
12-15-2007, 03:20 AM
You could try hooking your PCI bus up to the vehicles PCI bus, but I have no idea how the FORD's BUS system will take to a foreign module being present. All you would have to do is make a jumper from pin 5 of your new connector, to the PCI bus pin in your old connector(most likely pin #5 in it as well). I have no idea what this will do though unfortunately. You may be able to have a custom flash put in the PCM to allow the ECM totalk to it, but I don't know what program to use with FORD'S. GM can use EFI LIVE to hack the ECM.

Hopefully some of my info helped, and keep us posted on her. I'm starting to get a major itch to go nuts and slap a CUMMINS common rail in my SUB.

Ford uses J1850 PWM. Not compatible with the PCI bus I dont beleive...

thefermanator
12-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Ford uses J1850 PWM. Not compatible with the PCI bus I dont beleive...

I have no experience with FORDS BUS system, only DODGE's. I know the factory PCI bus is driven via a BCM in a DODGE product. It uses the vehicles ground system for communications so that 1 wire can communicate with the whole vehicle. Each module has a preset resistor that it uses to short the BUS with. That's how it communicates. Each module shorts the BUS a pre-set amount, that is each modules signature. Each one has it's own voltage, and then it varies the pulse width and frequency to send messages. I went to school on this back when DODGE came out with the power sliding doors in the mini-vans. The top end ones had 13 control modules that all talked over the 1 wire PCI bus. You could watch it over an oscilliscope, but a DVOM couldn't keep up with it. If you really wanted to **** it off, you could short out pin 5 in the datalink port and watch everything go dead. This was one of the tests they demonstrated to us in class.

The only viable option I see to get rid of the PCI code is to get a work truck PCM from a dodge manual trans equipped truck. This could also solve your check engine light driver as well. But I'm not up on 02+ technology, so I don't know if this would supply your 5 volt reference or not.

duratothemax
12-15-2007, 11:13 AM
Might even be better just to get a cummins ECM from a medium duty application. (non-dodge)

that would solve a lot of issues, as well as give you a dedicated MIL-request wire.....

lots of good info fermanator...like I said the only stuff Im really up on is the GM data busses...Id love to learn more about the dodge's...thanks for the info :) :cool:

ben

5.9Excursion
12-15-2007, 11:22 AM
I love this post! I too am considering a similiar swap myself. I've got a 6.5 In my 95 SUBURBAN.

That's the exact vehicle we had before this Excursion. It was a 95 as well, it had 193,000 miles on it before we sold it. Used oil, hard to start, no power, etc. etc. I was going to put a cummins in it, but couldn't see going thru all the work and still having a 12 year old vehicle that was worn out...

After two days of running on a generator, our power is back on. I've hauled 7 loads of limbs out of the yard and have about 8 to go. Last night we got 3" of snow...

thefermanator
12-15-2007, 11:45 AM
I've considered the EXCURSION route, and haven't ruled that one out yet. But I still like the SUBURBAN better than an EXCURSION for my needs. A friend bought a 03 with a 7.3L in it, and after riding in it some I wasn't the keenest on it. Plus my SUBURBAN just fit's in my garage, an EXCURSION won't make it height wise. I really like the way my SUBURBAN drives with the IFS compared to the SFA of the EXCURSION as well. If it wasn't for the garage issue, I probably would have already bought one though. I don't like doing my maintence and such outside. A 12 valve will fit right into my SUBURBAN though, JK AUTO just did one to his SUBURBAN with an intercooler. Looks pretty slick, but I personally would prefer a common rail for the quietness of the engine.

rustyshakelford
12-15-2007, 11:50 AM
im glad you got the truck running before all the weather hit. im wearing shorts still down here. we had a nasty cold snap that went well into the 50s...yuck[laugh]

brett

03qclb5spd
12-21-2007, 10:21 PM
Looks great! I am pondering buying a Ford and swapping in the CR from my totaled 03, provided I can get buy back on it for a good price once the insurance is all settled. Based on what you had to go through, now I'm scared LOL! I just wish Ford would have came with Cummins anyway......

jwb600
12-27-2007, 08:52 PM
I havent been on here all that much anymore but just wanted to say it looked good back from page 7 of your install.

5.9Excursion
12-28-2007, 08:40 AM
I haven't driven it much yet. Waiting on my relatives garage to open up so I can finish the dual battery tray and get the second battery in. Still need to retorque the head studs as well. Only other issue is the tach. Just waiting on a warm spot to work on it. I'll post more pics when I get that done...

Thanks!

dieselclam
12-29-2007, 06:38 PM
5.9Excursion, Congrats to you for your application of brilliance and patience and also to the others that are contributing. Man what a team! Weird conincidence: I'm also a former 1995 6.5 GMC 4x4 Suburban owner- loved the truck (especially the cushy ride- better than a brand new 1995 Caddy my mom had just gotten- and that was HER opinion), hated the mileage and the fuel injection pump problems, needed something much tougher, so I sold it and bought a 2000 Excursion, brand new. 8 years later it now has 117,000 miles on it- but after a defective Cunningham connecting rod snapped off in my $28,000 hand-build 7.3 last spring (with 10k miles on the engine, and no, Cunningham won't even speak to me), I bought a December 2005 Cummins HPCR (low hour dyno test engine in Freightliner config), a freshly remanufactured 2000 Allison 1000, a second CP3 and ATS intake and exhaust maniflolds.

I had the head ported & cam ground at Piers and will be reassembling with head studs and probably compound turbos. The engine is an ISBe with an SAE #3 housing and a rear gear case. I sure hope it will fit... I've got a 325 hp dodge ECM (CM849B 02/01/2006) and a GMC TCM (29537441 06-10-2002) to run the tranny, but I'm not sure that either of them will be compatible without a lot of problems. The engine has a Freightliner harness on it.

I'm hoping that you all will be this kind and generous with our time and wisdom with me when it comes time do my wiring. Meanwhile, if anyone can pm or e-mail me with advise and/or pin out diagrams for this setup I would greatly appreciate it.

I'll shut up now because I don't want to interrupt this thread other than to say that I'm really impressed and excited after reading it!

ramman
01-01-2008, 07:48 PM
5.9 Excursion my hats off to you on your repower,cleanest I've seen .As an employee of the Kentucky Truck Plant I wished Ford had awaken from there slumber and done it your way and we'd still be building them.I have an 05 CR and 48re thats been sitting in the shop for a year as I new the electronics would be tough,but after finding this thread I'd have to say it's the motherload of hard learned information and with pictures and wire colors.You guys deserve a medal.
You have breathed new life into my project as I see a first rate example that it can be done RIGHT.I may have to pick your brains to get there but if the good Lord above willing it will become a Cummins powerd Ford soon.I think I read somewherein the 14 pages this morning till 3am that you used Autoworld mounts,I have the Dodge alternator on the engine should I convert to the Ford or can it be made to work?I need to get the head studs,billet input shaft,torque converter ordered real soon,any suggestions or short cuts you'd care to share before the check book goes in the read?Hopefully my 6.0 and Torque shift will sell for a good price to help fund my Cummins addiction.Did you have to have both drive shafts modified?To many questions in my head got to give this thread breathing room,don't want to strangle it on the first post .

dieselclam
01-01-2008, 09:21 PM
Ramman-
On another site (powerstrokenation) Bean said he's working on mounts for attaching Ford accessories to the Cummins engines. You might want to give him a shout.
http://www.beansdieselperformance.com/
clam

ramman
01-01-2008, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the heads up,I've meet Bean a few times,watched him do the cooler racing at TS performance open house,and tug of war on black top ,he's a nice guy and He had his CR F350 there.I'll give him a call.

TexasCTD
01-02-2008, 12:54 AM
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=185145


You need to get some more pics of that Excursion....and post them here!

..

DiEseLjunKy
01-02-2008, 01:24 AM
Yeah no doubt don't matter if the rpm gauge ain't working for the time being that's a nice conversion. :D

dieselclam
01-02-2008, 03:33 AM
Thanks for the heads up,I've meet Bean a few times,watched him do the cooler racing at TS performance open house,and tug of war on black top ,he's a nice guy and He had his CR F350 there.I'll give him a call.

Please let me know what he says. No point it both of us bugging him. I know he had them in work, but I don't know if they are done yet.

5.9Excursion
01-02-2008, 01:13 PM
I think I read somewhere in the 14 pages this morning till 3am that you used Autoworld mounts,I have the Dodge alternator on the engine should I convert to the Ford or can it be made to work?

Did you have to have both drive shafts modified?

I used the dodge alternator, very very simple. The HPCR engine wiring harness plugs right into the dodge alternator. All you have to run is the bigger wire to the battery for keeping them charged.

Yes I used the Autoworld quad mounts (very beefy), they required moving the ECM off the engine block. If I did it again, I would probably use the single mounts (not only cheaper, but I don't think you have to move the ECM).

Driveshafts did NOT need modified at all. Perfect fit...

5.9Excursion
01-02-2008, 03:44 PM
This past weekend I got the head studs retorqued and the valve lash reset. Also got a dual battery tray built for the drivers side (very tight fit). Just waiting on some cables to connect the two batteries together.

Incase someone else does the same as me, two fullsize batterys sitting side by side measure 7.5" from the (+) post on one battery to the (+) post on the other. The same measurement for the (-) side as well. McMaster-Carr has some nice cables for connecting two together that are 7 3/8" long. I'll post some pics with them installed once they get here.

It was -3 this morning, got to listen to the 3 cyl idle in my 01 for the first time. Sounds pretty cool... Watched the fuel pressure go from 15 psi down to 8 psi over a few minutes of idling. Added some more Howe's treatment and slowly watched it come back up to 15 over the next 5 min's. Got lucky I guess...

ramman
01-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Thanks for the reply on the alternator,so you only had to run the one wire I would think to the starter from the alternator or was it already on the engine harness?I will be watching this thread and taking notes on the progress and the brain teasers you guys are working out. Thanks again

5.9Excursion
01-02-2008, 08:46 PM
Just the one wire from the Alt to the battery. My engine came with the heavy cable from the starter to the battery post (this same cable has another smaller one coming from the battery to the under hood fuse panel). Maybe I'll run out and snap a few pics so you can see what I'm talking about...

ramman
01-02-2008, 09:06 PM
So I assume the Cummins ecm is doing the voltage regulation then?I know on the 2nd gen the Bcm I think controlled the charging ! It's in the low teens here in KY. tonight so picture taking would be on hold for me.I will look at the engine tomorrow to see if I can determine the wire routing.
I will be in need of a fan and clutch if anyone knows where a bargin might be found?

haloman
01-03-2008, 07:09 AM
Ramman. Where abouts in KY are you? I think the swap is an awesome idea and it would be awesome if you could bring it to one of our KYDTR #41 meets one day.

dieselclam
01-03-2008, 02:44 PM
I won a flea bay auction yesterday for a Dodge wiring harness that fits a 2006 HPCR and the Dodge ECM that I bought (my engine came with a freightliner harness but no computer). Consequently, I'm also interested in the charging system details. Like ramman, I need a fan and clutch too...
5.9 I can't thank you enough for the amount of detail you have included in your conversion. This is a big project and some of us needed someone to set the example. Get that truck washed up, snap some photos and be truck of the month! You never know, it might just inspire more people to take the plunge.

ramman
01-03-2008, 06:18 PM
Haloman,I live in Nelson Co. near the town of Bardstown. My conversion is only in the dreaming stages,having owned two 98 quadcab cummins trucks before purchasing the King ranch F350 i'm no stranger to the power and miss it so ,as the 6.0 just doesn't have it.I only have the one truck and the conversion was supposed to be my winter project but I've been a little scared of tearing up a perfectly good truck with only 30,000 miles on it or others have told me I was crazy.This thread has incouraged me and will be headed to Shelbyville Chrysler soon to get Steve to order some studs,and transmission parts and test run the engine as I haven't heard it run as of yet ,did have to replace the timing cover as it was broken and the parts list is still growing.
Long story short is I long to have the only Cummins powerd Ford at the.Ky Truck plant someday in the not as distant future.It takes lots of $ and time as 5.9Excursionn has shown.
Where are the chapter 41 meets or where are you located?

haloman
01-03-2008, 06:24 PM
Ramman the meets are held in Henderson, KY below Evansville , IN about 2.5 hrs from you, Check the link in my signature for all the info.

ramman
01-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Ya i just watched the video from the year end meet. Cool waste of rubber!

ramman
01-03-2008, 08:36 PM
5.9 Excursion,I looked at the motor today and the alternator + has a large wire about a foot long that appears to have had some type of connector or fuseable link that was torn away ,I will have to look at a Dodge and see what the routing was,the three wire plug to the regulator was unplugged but in the harness intact so hopefully the Cummins computer controls it.

dieselclam
01-03-2008, 10:44 PM
Aren't Chrysler alternators internally regulated?

ramman
01-04-2008, 05:55 PM
I don't know yet????

wannadiesel
01-04-2008, 06:52 PM
No, they are externally regulated. Modern Chrysler products (post '90) use the PCM to regulate charging voltage.

dieselclam
01-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Thanks! I had no idea.

John DiMartino
01-05-2008, 11:36 AM
Thanks for the reply on the alternator,so you only had to run the one wire I would think to the starter from the alternator or was it already on the engine harness?I will be watching this thread and taking notes on the progress and the brain teasers you guys are working out. Thanks again

Ramman,since your engine is out of a freightliner,you may have a leece -neville alternator. If you do,id try to keep it,it is a stronger,better alternator.if it is a leece neville,many of them are internally regulated.I put one in my CTD,it is internally regulated,just hook one power wire and your done.

91rangerturbo
01-05-2008, 12:01 PM
Cool swap and congrats on getting it together so fast.

5.9Excursion
01-05-2008, 06:53 PM
I've been able to drive it alittle more recently and there is alot of injector noise/rattle (I think that is what it is). It is very noticable when in the throttle . If I let off the throttle and coast the noise goes away.

What does it sound like when an injector goes south? Is there any test a scanner can do to determine if something is wrong?

A pic of the battery install... The cables I got from McMaster-Carr to connect the two batteries together worked perfect (not shown in this pic though).

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/DSC00288.jpg

ramman
01-05-2008, 10:03 PM
The 05 engine That I have is from a 3500 Dodge dually,no idea if it had the security system and No idea how to tell yet. I will have to read more and get the schematic soon.

5.9Excursion
01-06-2008, 08:53 AM
PM sent...

5.9Excursion
01-07-2008, 07:51 AM
Did some more driving the last couple days. Even with the smarty on #5 it just felt slow to me (turbo is a little big with stock injectors maybe?). So I went ahead and bumped the smarty up to #9.

Much Much better.... :D

This thing just needs more fuel to wake it up. The injector noise is bothering though. If I had any money left over I'd order injectors (Flux 1.8's) to swap in there. [coffee]

xtoyz17
01-07-2008, 07:57 AM
Any way to get a video clip of the sound?

5.9Excursion
01-07-2008, 07:59 AM
I was planning on doing just that. I'll try to get it tonight.

haloman
01-07-2008, 08:11 AM
Did some more driving the last couple days. Even with the smarty on #5 it just felt slow to me (turbo is a little big with stock injectors maybe?). So I went ahead and bumped the smarty up to #9.

Much Much better.... :D

This thing just needs more fuel to wake it up. The injector noise is bothering though. If I had any money left over I'd order injectors (Flux 1.8's) to swap in there. [coffee]

Try running a good dose of Power Service in it. As far as fuel. There should be the 230hp smarty tune soon. And you could always stack a quad box with your smarty.

5.9Excursion
01-07-2008, 10:39 AM
The flux 1.8's should give it a nice boost in power as well as replace the stock injectors (that have had their share of issues). This way I can leave the smarty on smaller settings for everyday driving (the wife) and I can crank it up when needed...

I'll try some injector cleaner too. It's already got Howe's treatment in it now.

FWIW, I was there with Marco and Bob Wagner when they were dialing in the 230 hp tune at Floor It Diesel. It's the real deal...

5.9Excursion
01-07-2008, 02:00 PM
It's official, I've entered the ROTM contest. Thanks for all the great feedback so far everyone...

Here's a picture I took during the middle of the ice storm... I moved everything out to the field, because I knew most of the branches in our trees would come down (and they did)...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/jdnedde/Excursion/Cummins%20swap/icestormpic.jpg

5.9Excursion
01-07-2008, 08:21 PM
I started a new post on the injector rattle or valve train noise question I have. I put a link to the youtube video in there as well.

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?p=1878293#post1878293

xtoyz17
01-07-2008, 08:38 PM
I want those wheels the 01 has....

ramman
01-14-2008, 07:32 PM
It seems as this post has lost it's intrest so I'll bump it up .

5.9Excursion
01-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Little update, its been very cold so I haven't worked on it much. A few notes though...

The engine computer needs to have voltage before, during, and after cranking to start normally. Per my Ford wiring diagram I though I had this correct. Apparently, (I'm assuming) right now it has voltage when the key is in the run position and in the start position (but not inbetween). So while cranking it fires fine, then when I release the key and it goes back to the run position, it momentarily loses power (engine stumbles too). If the engine is warm it will keep running, however if it's cold, you may have to start it 2 or 3 times. Easy enough to check and correct, just haven't done it yet.

I'm still in need of the wiring harness that goes to the 48RE shift lever position switch (side of the tranny). Right now I have the wiring jumpered so it will start in any gear.

Still need to get the tach working as well.

Also chasing a pulley thats squeeking, not sure which one though.

I just can't get motivated to go work on these things in the cold since she runs excellent. :D

xtoyz17
01-16-2008, 10:25 AM
End up solving the engine ticking?

5.9Excursion
01-16-2008, 10:28 AM
No, Smarty is currently on #8 instead of #9 which helped. I ordered a quadzilla rail pressure gauge to monitor rail pressure (should have it in a week or so). I think its just injector noise. I still plan on swapping injectors to some Flux 1.8's once I get the V10 sold.

Pilgrimjt
01-16-2008, 11:05 AM
How did you hook up your heater relay/Wait to Start LED? I still haven't done mine but hope to do it soon. I had thought of going directly from the relays but was wondering if you had a better method.

5.9Excursion
01-16-2008, 11:10 AM
I just went from each relay +12 volt terminal to an LED in the dash then thru a resistor (220 ohm maybe?) and then to ground. I have a green LED for each relay. So you can see when either one is on individually. That reminds me, I need to run my transmission VSS signal back to the ECM so the intake heaters get turned off once I pass 25 mph. Currently they run (cycle on/off) until IAT's remain above a certain temp (doesn't take long though).

Pilgrimjt
01-16-2008, 11:59 AM
How about the Water in Fuel light? Have you got that one hooked up?

5.9Excursion
01-16-2008, 01:24 PM
Not currently, I haven't looked into that one yet. I was thinking the ECM monitors the sensor and then uses a communication bus to talk to the dodge PCM and lets the PCM turn on the light. Since I don't have a dodge PCM, I will need to go another route.

(edit)
I just looked at the wiring, the water in fuel sensor changes resistance based upon water in the fuel (not sure what the range is, or at what point the light should come on though), but we could feed this as an input into the trans controller, and when it reaches a certain point, use a PWM output to drive a LED.

ramman
01-16-2008, 06:23 PM
5.9Excursion you seem to have a very good understanding of the electronics so I wandered if you are an electrical engineer or something?