Here is the first part of a story I have just read. I will leave it up to someone else to verify if it is true and the next wedge in the destruction of America as you know it.

A recent government policy change has taken a bite out of the nation's already stressed ammunition supply, leaving arms dealers scrambling to find ammo for private gun owners.

Georgia Arms is a company that for the last 15 years has been purchasing fired brass shell casings from the Department of Defense and private government surplus liquidators. The military collects the discarded casings from fired rounds, then sells them through liquidators to companies like Georgia Arms that remanufacture the casings into ammunition for the law enforcement and civilian gun owner communities.

But earlier this month, Georgia Arms received a canceled order, informed by its supplier that the government now requires fired brass casings be mutilated, in other words, destroyed to a scrap metal state.

The policy change, handed down from the Department of Defense through the Defense Logistics Agency, cuts a supply leg out from underneath ammunition manufacturers.

The policy has compelled Georgia Arms, for example, to cancel all sales of .223 and .308 ammunition, rounds used, respectively, in semi-automatic and deer hunting rifles, until further notice. Sharch Manufacturing, Inc. has announced the same cancellation of its .223 and .308 brass reloading components.

Yep, and the scrap brass is only worth $.20 per pound vs. $2.00 per pound when reloadable.

Nobody said our government is run by smart people.

MikeyB

They can have the brass made new, it may cost a few pennies more but that does not mean there is an ammo shortage.

Good news. The DOD scrap ruling was reversed yesterday.

MikeyB

Georgia Arms is a big player in gun shows.

you get 1000 rounds of .45 or 40 in an old Army Ammo can, just loose in zip lock bags inside.

i keep all my old ammo boxes, and put thier ammo in them.

good cheap company.


http://georgia-arms.com/


NOTICE!!!



A hardy congratulation is due to our loyal customers, our good friends, and our fellow shooting enthusiasts through out this great nation! Due to the diligent and overwhelming effort of many thousands of you, calling, writing, and emailing our elected officials, DOD Surplus, LLC, has rescinded its prior directive that ALL small arms spent casings be mutilated rather than recycled. This was a huge victory for common sense and we would like to thank each and every person who made an effort and played a role in correcting this mistake. We at Georgia Arms are proud of everyone who took the time and had the courage to stand up for our rights. We believe, that by your outpouring of anger and dismay, you not only extended our liberty and freedoms but also took a stand for economic common sense in a time when we know our government should be trying to reduce costs at all levels rather than throwing money away for some politically correct reason or the other. Again, our hat is off to everyone who helped and thanks to God as well. We will roll up our sleeves and go back to work; we have 223’s and 308’s to build! (Below is a copy of the email we received from DOD on 3/17/09 @ 4:30pm)

GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!



(This was pertaining to an outstanding bid on a lot of brass that we won prior to the mutilation order. DOD sent us a bill for the brass after we had refused it due to the mutilation requirements. DOD on Monday sent us a bill for the brass and when we responded that we had already refused it due to the mutilation clause, we received this reply via email.)

My biggest gripe in regards to ammo isn't that there seems to be a shortage of ammo, but more so on the price gapping/gouging between different rounds of ammunition. Explain to me why a fella can buy a box of Remington .308, 150gr Pointed Soft Point Core Lokt rounds for around $15-18 bucks or so, but the same round in a .300WSM costs in the mid $40s range! There is absolutely no way of convincing me that doubling powder more or less = more than doubling and actually approaching tripling the cost of the round on the shelf! Some folks have claimed that it is due to it being a "less popular round", but that would be no different than charging $80-120K for our Dodges as compared to a Powerstroke or Duramax in a place where the Dodge is just more popular. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but either way, it sure is expensive for a fellow like me to sight in my rifle!

Start reloading. Saves me more than half against the price of store-bought ammo.

Start reloading. Saves me more than half against the price of store-bought ammo.

I have seriously been considering it! I was just wondering how they justify it is all. $20-30 bucks is a pretty serious difference when you are talking about 20 .308 rounds and 20 .300WSM rounds. Same calibur, just slightly more brass and powder for the .300. Mystifies me, but if I want to shoot/hunt, which is my right and one of my favorite past times, I have to pay out the wazoo to do so! [verymad]

My biggest gripe in regards to ammo isn't that there seems to be a shortage of ammo, but more so on the price gapping/gouging between different rounds of ammunition. Explain to me why a fella can buy a box of Remington .308, 150gr Pointed Soft Point Core Lokt rounds for around $15-18 bucks or so, but the same round in a .300WSM costs in the mid $40s range! There is absolutely no way of convincing me that doubling powder more or less = more than doubling and actually approaching tripling the cost of the round on the shelf! Some folks have claimed that it is due to it being a "less popular round", but that would be no different than charging $80-120K for our Dodges as compared to a Powerstroke or Duramax in a place where the Dodge is just more popular. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but either way, it sure is expensive for a fellow like me to sight in my rifle!

Its not price gouging. By your logic every alternator from one for a chevy 350 to a lexus should cost the same. The fact is your costs are going to increase the less common something is. The .308 has been around for decades and has served in several countries as the military round of choice. The 300 WSM is a wildcat cartridge thats 8 years old! Its a fact Jack, its a less popular round in terms of availability. Just because you and others like the round its still rare. You can go into any podunk hardware store that stocks ammo and youll be able to find several things. .22's, 30'30's, and .308's (among other things), ill bet you a buck you wont be finding any WSM's. Its the law of supply and demand. Even the cheap steel cased wolf stuff has gone up. .223 and 7.62x39 Two of the most popular military calibers have doubled in price over the past few months. Why? Because people (including myself) have been buying it by the case for a few years now and its all starting to dry up. They werent cheap because they used less powder, brass, and bullet, they are cheap because just about every country with a standing army uses one or the other and the world cranks out an abysmal number of these calibers.


As to the Fed's decision, they arent stupid. They know they are being watched carefully and dont want to get us any more "ammuniton" against them (pun intended). The libs already were slapped down with the Heller decision. Now they intend to try and bleed the ammuntion supply down so some peoples arms are nothing more than shiney steel and wood clubs. That paired with the army and national guard training (or at least trying to) within our cities and you get the overall picture. Make no mistake about it, the government fears a civil uprising and will do anything they can to put a lid on the pot before it has a chance to boil over. The Iowa NG training exercise in Arcadia that got slapped down earlier this month is prime example. They were supposed to be going door to door looking for an "arms dealer". Since when did we need military to look for people selling guns on the street? And since when did any of that require a house to house sweep of an entire town? How stupid do they think we are?

Its not price gouging. By your logic every alternator from one for a chevy 350 to a lexus should cost the same. The fact is your costs are going to increase the less common something is. The .308 has been around for decades and has served in several countries as the military round of choice. The 300 WSM is a wildcat cartridge thats 8 years old! Its a fact Jack, its a less popular round in terms of availability. Just because you and others like the round its still rare. You can go into any podunk hardware store that stocks ammo and youll be able to find several things. .22's, 30'30's, and .308's (among other things), ill bet you a buck you wont be finding any WSM's. Its the law of supply and demand. Even the cheap steel cased wolf stuff has gone up. .223 and 7.62x39 Two of the most popular military calibers have doubled in price over the past few months. Why? Because people (including myself) have been buying it by the case for a few years now and its all starting to dry up. They werent cheap because they used less powder, brass, and bullet, they are cheap because just about every country with a standing army uses one or the other and the world cranks out an abysmal number of these calibers.

All due respect, comparing alternators for different brands of vehicles, although the price of a Lexus IS300 alternator is actually very comparable to a Chevy 350 alternator in price, is like comparing apples to oranges, which is why I was referencing one specific brand of ammunition rather than referencing between say, Winchester Ammo and Federal Ammo with steel tips, nozzler rounds, etc. where the costs of materials used will obviously play a factor in how much extra or less the consumer will pay once it arrives on a shelf somewhere. I realize that I did sort of the same thing by referencing the pickup trucks, but the big three are pretty comparable in price. Ford produces/sells more trucks than Dodge and GM combined, so why aren't their trucks much cheaper than ours are, based off of your logic that "because there are more, it costs less"?

If I were to buy a reloading press, I could easily reload .308 or .300WSM with the same press, so I'm assuming that ammo manufacturers could do the same. All that is needed to switch out are die plates to go from one calibur to another and those aren't very expensive. I do understand that the casings are different, making them a slight "odd ball" in comparison to a .308 by looks alone, but if the only thing that would cost me a little extra, and we're talking pennies in comparison between .308 and .300WSM, is extra powder and possibly primers, then where do they get off charging that much more? That is why I don't see how ammunition manufacturers can justify charging nearly three times as much for a specific round when the processes leading up to them ending up in our rifles are identical.

Sorry, and I'm hoping I didn't offend, just trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel by taking in both points of view.

Lets put it this way mikemendal: Remington sells 1000 boxes of 308 Winchester every week, and make a $1 profit on each box, for a total of $1000 profit They sell 100 boxes of 300WSM, and make a $9 profit on each box, for a total of $900 profit. The 300WSM is new enough that there is still research and development taking place, which raises the price of the product. The tooling is still being financed (usually about 10 years), so it adds to the price of the ammo. The actual round itself has a greater cost of manufacture as there is more brass, powder, a larger primer and a differently constructed bullet to meet the higher velocity, adding to the actual production costs. Then there's the "American Magnum Infatuation" which is probably worth another $2 a box just because it says "magnum" on it somewhere.

All in all, the mainstream rounds will always be cheaper than specialty rounds as volume sales make the profit.

based off of your logic that "because there are more, it costs less"?

If I were to buy a reloading press, I could easily reload .308 or .300WSM with the same press, so I'm assuming that ammo manufacturers could do the same.

Point 1. Its not MY logic actually, it is the law of supply and demand. The more common and abundant something is, the cheaper it will be. The more rare it is, the more expensive. Factory loads in my 25-06 (which takes a smaller bullet and the roughly the same ammount of powder) costs more to shoot than a 30-06. Why? Because its also a wildcat cartridge and not as common/popular.

Point 2. Your on the money when it come to reloading but you assume too much on the part of the mfg's. It matters no difference to you as your reloading for you, and not the entire united states plus the military. You dont have to worry about covering the costs of a massive retool or production change. Your also paying them to possibly stop production on a more popular caliber or hire additional people to oversee the new WSM line.

Point 1. Its not MY logic actually, it is the law of supply and demand. The more common and abundant something is, the cheaper it will be. The more rare it is, the more expensive. Factory loads in my 25-06 (which takes a smaller bullet and the roughly the same ammount of powder) costs more to shoot than a 30-06. Why? Because its also a wildcat cartridge and not as common/popular.

Point 2. Your on the money when it come to reloading but you assume too much on the part of the mfg's. It matters no difference to you as your reloading for you, and not the entire united states plus the military. You dont have to worry about covering the costs of a massive retool or production change. Your also paying them to possibly stop production on a more popular caliber or hire additional people to oversee the new WSM line.

Good post! I appreciate a person that can agree to disagree, hear the other side of the story, so to speak, without losing their cool and going off the handle. Too much of that these days, if you ask me!

My biggest quarrel with, say, Winchester, for example is what seems to be an unfair gap. Their ammo is pretty right on with Remington ammo in price, give or take a few bucks. However, now go to their website and price a Model 70 Winchester Featherweight .308 which accordingly due to it's being one of the most popular rounds known to man, should also make it a much more mass-produced/sold rifle as well, costs $799. Just a couple line items below the .308 is a Model 70 Winchester Featherweight .300WSM, which is a less produced/sold rifle, yet it is affordably priced at $839 which is oddly enough only $40 more dollars than it's far more popular counterpart, yet they tack on nearly the same amount of price difference, dollar by dollar, for a mere box of ammo. They are marking up the price roughly 300% on the .300WSM rounds as compared to a .308, yet are only marking up the price roughly 5% for the rifles to shoot them. I would think that supply and demand should coincide weapons as well as ammunition specific to that weapon, right?

I'm seeing only one light at the end of this tunnel, tx_2500. I'm going to have to start reloading my own ammo.

Glad to hear you took everything well. I agree, too often one or both parties get their feelings hurt.

I sure cant provide any explanation as to why the rifles are so close in price VS the ammunition. Sure dosnt make much sense does it?

Those "wizzums" are a hoot to shoot. My buddy has one he uses for deer. They handload all their stuff as they live out in the boonies.

I sure hear you about reloading! Its too expensive for me to shoot anything other than military calibers for fun.

Glad to hear you took everything well. I agree, too often one or both parties get their feelings hurt.

I sure cant provide any explanation as to why the rifles are so close in price VS the ammunition. Sure dosnt make much sense does it?

Those "wizzums" are a hoot to shoot. My buddy has one he uses for deer. They handload all their stuff as they live out in the boonies.

I sure hear you about reloading! Its too expensive for me to shoot anything other than military calibers for fun.

No, the difference in prices between the rifles and the ammo is astounding to me. I have been curious about it ever since I started thinking about buying one of the rifles. Obviously I chose to buy the rifle anyway because WSMs are ballistic animals. I'd like to get out there one day and plains hunt with it, or make one of those 500+ yard deer/elk/moose kill shots. I sure am glad that it has that nice thick recoil pad on it though because it stomps! Before it, I was actually hunting with a Model 70 30-06 and the kick between the two is night and day. The .300 is a bit more conservative than I thought it was going to be for deer hunting as well. It didn't do any more damage than my 30-06 did. All it takes is a decently placed shot to avoid damaging any meat.

Glad to hear about the Georgia Arms decision. But Wal-Mart is still cheaper than their ammo, even their bulk, 1000 round cans. Go figure.

Good post! I appreciate a person that can agree to disagree, hear the other side of the story, so to speak, without losing their cool and going off the handle. Too much of that these days, if you ask me!

My biggest quarrel with, say, Winchester, for example is what seems to be an unfair gap. Their ammo is pretty right on with Remington ammo in price, give or take a few bucks. However, now go to their website and price a Model 70 Winchester Featherweight .308 which accordingly due to it's being one of the most popular rounds known to man, should also make it a much more mass-produced/sold rifle as well, costs $799. Just a couple line items below the .308 is a Model 70 Winchester Featherweight .300WSM, which is a less produced/sold rifle, yet it is affordably priced at $839 which is oddly enough only $40 more dollars than it's far more popular counterpart, yet they tack on nearly the same amount of price difference, dollar by dollar, for a mere box of ammo. They are marking up the price roughly 300% on the .300WSM rounds as compared to a .308, yet are only marking up the price roughly 5% for the rifles to shoot them. I would think that supply and demand should coincide weapons as well as ammunition specific to that weapon, right?

I'm seeing only one light at the end of this tunnel, tx_2500. I'm going to have to start reloading my own ammo.


They're imported now aren't they. Probably a few more tariffs to add in.

They're imported now aren't they. Probably a few more tariffs to add in.

Yeah, from what I have been reading, the return of the legendary Model 70 in 2008 means income to China rather than being built here in the good old U.S.ofA.

I refuse to buy a new one anymore. If I were to purchase a Model 70, it would be a used one built out of New Hampshire or the like.

Guess that we have to pay China back somehow, right? Why not in the import of our weapons? [yuk]

I thought Winchester was made in Japan with Browning.

I thought Winchester was made in Japan with Browning.

Heck, it's one of those places! [duhhh]

Kinda the same same, you know?! LOL Either way, I wouldn't buy one of the rifles anymore unless it was a used one made here in the good ol' U.S.A.

Great guns, the older Model 70s! They shoot about as good as any I've shot I guess.