Engine block heater?
07-30-2003, 01:04 PM
#1
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Engine block heater?
I'm curious, do new 03's have engine block heaters standard or is it an option? One of the dealers in GA that has a truck I'm interested in, doesn't say engine block heater anywhere on the sticker, however he says there's a plug at the front, which he calls an oil pan warmer. Do you guys know if there is an included block heater, and what type it is? Thanks,
Dave
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07-30-2003, 01:29 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
Normally, when you order the diesel from Dodge, the block heater is part of the package and can't be ordered without it. As for a "pan heater", he is probably referring to the block heater...you can go to www.dodge.com and configure a truck...with a diesel, you get a block heater.
07-30-2003, 01:35 PM
#3
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Re:Engine block heater?
Thanks, I figured the block heater was the plug the dealer found and that he had no idea what it was.
So if they are standard, what type of block heater are they? Do they heat and recirculate coolant on a thermostat or how do they work?
So if they are standard, what type of block heater are they? Do they heat and recirculate coolant on a thermostat or how do they work?
07-30-2003, 06:18 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
The block heater is std equipment for the 03 CTD. In 04, it has been dropped from the std equipment list, but is available for a $10 option.
It takes the place of a freeze plug in the engine block -- on the water jacket, so it heats the anti-freeze coolant directly. So no, the factory heater is not an oil pan warmer -- whoever said that is just showing off their ignorance.
what phox said -- the element just sits there in the water jacket of the engine block and warms things up like one of those coffee cup heaters that you stick inside the cup. the freeze plug is one of the lowest physical points in the coolant system, so you get a wee bit of natural circulation just because warm coolant is lighter than cold coolant.
I use the block heater on my truck to help pre-heat the engine to reduce warm-up time. The new ones will start down to -10 or something like that anyway, so they don't "need" the block heater for most applications.
It takes the place of a freeze plug in the engine block -- on the water jacket, so it heats the anti-freeze coolant directly. So no, the factory heater is not an oil pan warmer -- whoever said that is just showing off their ignorance.
what phox said -- the element just sits there in the water jacket of the engine block and warms things up like one of those coffee cup heaters that you stick inside the cup. the freeze plug is one of the lowest physical points in the coolant system, so you get a wee bit of natural circulation just because warm coolant is lighter than cold coolant.
I use the block heater on my truck to help pre-heat the engine to reduce warm-up time. The new ones will start down to -10 or something like that anyway, so they don't "need" the block heater for most applications.
07-30-2003, 06:24 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
Doug and all thanks a lot. Doug, I copied and pasted your post to the dealer, so I'm sure he'll love your 'showing off his ignorance' comment ;D
On a side note, what a cheapo crappy system for cummins/dodge to put on. My MB has a pump and thermostat, and it heats and circulates coolant throughout the block, until it reaches 77F or so I believe, which is maintained by the thermostat. I'm surprised cummins has such a lamo system. I know that some folks have made their own with zerostart coolant heaters, for relatively cheap. All it does is plug in line with one of the coolant lines. You can see what one looks like at www.tdiheater.com .
Aside from my speculative disapproval, how does the block heater work, if you have parked outside in 0F weather all night? I know with mine, the temp gauge is already slightly warm, and I have heat right away, which is a bonus. Does the cummins heater provide heat right away?
On a side note, what a cheapo crappy system for cummins/dodge to put on. My MB has a pump and thermostat, and it heats and circulates coolant throughout the block, until it reaches 77F or so I believe, which is maintained by the thermostat. I'm surprised cummins has such a lamo system. I know that some folks have made their own with zerostart coolant heaters, for relatively cheap. All it does is plug in line with one of the coolant lines. You can see what one looks like at www.tdiheater.com .
Aside from my speculative disapproval, how does the block heater work, if you have parked outside in 0F weather all night? I know with mine, the temp gauge is already slightly warm, and I have heat right away, which is a bonus. Does the cummins heater provide heat right away?
07-30-2003, 06:41 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
I think expense plays a significant part here - MOST owners will NEVER use that heater - many others (and dealers too, obviously!) don't even know it's there - so how many are likely to be thrilled at the $$$ an even MORE expensive and complex UNused attachment will run the vehicle cost to? Heaters of this type are suitable for all but the most severe cold temperatures - and are equivalent to what Ford and GM provide on their trucks...
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07-30-2003, 06:44 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
Disappointing. I'd rather have it be an option they sold for $100 and have a real system. Even a zerostart kit, which may be easy to fit to the cummins, is around $60. They are thermostatically controlled, and will heat and circulate coolant throughout the engine.
07-30-2003, 06:58 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
[quote author=Lightman link=board=20;threadid=17741;start=#msg166049 date=1059608651]
Disappointing. I'd rather have it be an option they sold for $100 and have a real system. Even a zerostart kit, which may be easy to fit to the cummins, is around $60. They are thermostatically controlled, and will heat and circulate coolant throughout the engine.
[/quote]
I've heard - and don't doubt - that individual items built into a vehicle inflate the cost by a factor of ten - if that were true, your $60 recirculating heater built into your truck by DC would cost the CONSUMER an additional $600 - would you still be interested in it?
For confirmation, look at the towing mirrors on a truck like mine do you REALLY think they are worth the $250 or better APIECE the dealer gets for them - or would you suspect they are lots closer to $25 in actual market value? ;D ;D
Disappointing. I'd rather have it be an option they sold for $100 and have a real system. Even a zerostart kit, which may be easy to fit to the cummins, is around $60. They are thermostatically controlled, and will heat and circulate coolant throughout the engine.
[/quote]
I've heard - and don't doubt - that individual items built into a vehicle inflate the cost by a factor of ten - if that were true, your $60 recirculating heater built into your truck by DC would cost the CONSUMER an additional $600 - would you still be interested in it?
For confirmation, look at the towing mirrors on a truck like mine do you REALLY think they are worth the $250 or better APIECE the dealer gets for them - or would you suspect they are lots closer to $25 in actual market value?
;D ;D
07-30-2003, 07:01 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
Well, you have a point, however the $60 heater is probably costing the store $30, and $10-15 to make. So at the price dodge would get them, considering the bulk they'd be buying, I still think it would be a relatively inexpensive option .
I agree however, it's likely a cost cutting move by the auto/engine manufacturers. Still disappointing =]
.I agree however, it's likely a cost cutting move by the auto/engine manufacturers. Still disappointing =]
07-30-2003, 07:04 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
well, ahem, showing such comments to the dealer might not be the best way to obtain the lowest price!
anyway, it all depends on your goals. really, the block heater is a carryover from the old diesels where you had the following at low temperatures which required a heater just to get the engine started:
-very thick oil
-very weak batteries
-very weak starter motors
-more difficult cumbustion due to injection and glow plug technology
for the purpose of starting the engine, pretty much none of those things exist anymore today. Indeed, the 04's come w/o the block heater std.
A cheap block heater isn't going to provide heat right away, esp outside. Its purpose is just to take the frost off the engine so it will start!
I garage my truck and plug it in at night on a 4-hour timer before I fire up -- not to aid starting, but to decrease warmup time. I put a blanket over the engine and by the time I fire up in the morning, the entire block is warm to the touch. It works, sort of, but not anywhere near the performance of a real after market heater.
In outside cold weather, you'll be very disapointed with a $10 block heater if your goal is to pre-heat the engine for decreased warm-up time and heat availabillity. you'll need something else like the zerostart, or other thermostatically controlled heaters that actualy raise the block temperature to 150-170 degrees (near operating temperature). but given the realities of heat transfer physics, it takes a mighty powerful heater to hold an engine at a 170 degree temperature difference from the outside air.;
anyway, it all depends on your goals. really, the block heater is a carryover from the old diesels where you had the following at low temperatures which required a heater just to get the engine started:
-very thick oil
-very weak batteries
-very weak starter motors
-more difficult cumbustion due to injection and glow plug technology
for the purpose of starting the engine, pretty much none of those things exist anymore today. Indeed, the 04's come w/o the block heater std.
A cheap block heater isn't going to provide heat right away, esp outside. Its purpose is just to take the frost off the engine so it will start!
I garage my truck and plug it in at night on a 4-hour timer before I fire up -- not to aid starting, but to decrease warmup time. I put a blanket over the engine and by the time I fire up in the morning, the entire block is warm to the touch. It works, sort of, but not anywhere near the performance of a real after market heater.In outside cold weather, you'll be very disapointed with a $10 block heater if your goal is to pre-heat the engine for decreased warm-up time and heat availabillity. you'll need something else like the zerostart, or other thermostatically controlled heaters that actualy raise the block temperature to 150-170 degrees (near operating temperature). but given the realities of heat transfer physics, it takes a mighty powerful heater to hold an engine at a 170 degree temperature difference from the outside air.;
07-30-2003, 07:14 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
Right on. The zerostart is what I've been talking about in my posts above, they are around 1500 watts I believe, maybe they have a larger model. Since they're thermostatically controlled, most folks plug them in when they pull in for the night, it keeps the engine nice and toasty. I know even at 0F and parking outside, if I had my MB plugged in all night, the heat was warm as soon as I started, and no waiting for the glowplug light.. Normally in that weather the g/p light would be 30 secs...
07-30-2003, 07:19 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
I only used the block heater in my old '91 several times when we had an extremely cold winter with temps down in the 'teens - that's COLD here in central California! - and the reason I plugged in was because I had a pretty short drive to work and wanted the engine to get a better chance to warm up before I got there. The new truck lives in the garage, and since I'm retired will rarely see early morning starts (me too!) - so my block heater will probably stay as good as new over the life of the truck - at least as long as *I* have it...
07-30-2003, 08:38 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
Check out espar coolant heaters if you want to do this right. No electrical hook up needed, it burns diesel fuel from your tank. It can be programmed to come on whenever you want. It circulates the coolant as it heats it and turns on your defrosters also. You come out on a frosty morning into a fully heated, defrosted, and block warmed vehicle.
07-30-2003, 09:11 PM
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Re:Engine block heater?
[quote author=Lightman link=board=20;threadid=17741;start=0#msg166037 date=1059607499]
........On a side note, what a cheapo crappy system for cummins/dodge to put on........ [/quote]
Why? For climates in the lower 48, the 750 watt block heater works great. 3 hours on a timer and the wait to start light will briefly come on down to -10 F, the coldest I've experienced since owning mine. At 20 F, it won't come on at all. It's cheap, simple, but works. BTW, the engine starts easily without a block heater in 0 degree temps. It's just hard on the batteries.
........On a side note, what a cheapo crappy system for cummins/dodge to put on........ [/quote]
Why? For climates in the lower 48, the 750 watt block heater works great. 3 hours on a timer and the wait to start light will briefly come on down to -10 F, the coldest I've experienced since owning mine. At 20 F, it won't come on at all. It's cheap, simple, but works. BTW, the engine starts easily without a block heater in 0 degree temps. It's just hard on the batteries.