Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
08-28-2003, 11:37 AM
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Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
BAck a couple of moths ago when I was shopping for a new truck, I KNEW there had to be a conspiracy!!! 
After reading this you will think so also :
I got this from TDR.
The question is who does cummins own!
This is from a post on the DTR. It was posted by Gary-KJ6Q which is also a member on this board. Whoever was the author of this article took the time to do some major research on the subject. I guess it just goes to show we never really know who owns who anymore!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...from another thread on the subject...
=====
you're all wrong. But it's a very complicated story, and I wouldn't blame you for not reading about it, or even for not believing it.
(1) Isuzu owned Subaru, and sold out to Fuji Heavy Industries, which was then jointly acquired by British Leyland and Ford.
(2) BL & Ford then spun off Fuji/Subaru into an independent company. Big mistake. Ford bought BL, and owned Isuzu outright. Big mistake.
(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?
(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.
(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.
(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.
(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.
(8) With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.
(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.
(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.
(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)
(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.
(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.
(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.
Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.
So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?
And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"
After reading this you will think so also :
I got this from TDR.The question is who does cummins own!
This is from a post on the DTR. It was posted by Gary-KJ6Q which is also a member on this board. Whoever was the author of this article took the time to do some major research on the subject. I guess it just goes to show we never really know who owns who anymore!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...from another thread on the subject...
=====
you're all wrong. But it's a very complicated story, and I wouldn't blame you for not reading about it, or even for not believing it.
(1) Isuzu owned Subaru, and sold out to Fuji Heavy Industries, which was then jointly acquired by British Leyland and Ford.
(2) BL & Ford then spun off Fuji/Subaru into an independent company. Big mistake. Ford bought BL, and owned Isuzu outright. Big mistake.
(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?
(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.
(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.
(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.
(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.
(8) With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.
(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.
(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.
(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)
(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.
(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.
(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.
Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.
So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?
And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"
08-28-2003, 11:40 AM
#2
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
See below for the entire thread containing that post:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=18249
Rich
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=18249
Rich
Not a joke :'( I have heard of all but 2 of the companies mentioned.
08-28-2003, 03:16 PM
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Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
The bottom line is this.....Ford OWNS Cummins. I don't know why you people are in such deep denial over this. It's a fact. Live with it. :
08-28-2003, 05:20 PM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
Did an internet search on Inquardo..,found NOTHING. But I did get this, straight off of Cummins Investor Relations Fact Book:
Cummins was chosen as the exclusive diesel engine supplier for DC through the 2007 model year;
Cummins signed a long term exclusive supply arrangement with International Truck and Engine Corp. and PACCAR (Kenworth, Peterbilt).
Cummins was chosen as the exclusive diesel engine supplier for DC through the 2007 model year;
Cummins signed a long term exclusive supply arrangement with International Truck and Engine Corp. and PACCAR (Kenworth, Peterbilt).
08-28-2003, 05:43 PM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
and dont forget this one.
Cummins Appoints Venkatesan India VP
By Christopher Smith
Cummins recently promoted Ravi Venkatesan to vice president-India. He also currently serves as director of Tata Cummins Ltd. Venkatesan is responsible for Cummins business in India including the Engine, Power Generation, and International Distribution business units. He currently serves as chairman of Cummins India Ltd., a publicly-listed company of which Cummins owns 51%, and its subsidiaries including Cummins Diesel Sales and Service. He is also involved with Tata Cummins Ltd., a 50/50 joint venture with Tata Engineering (Telco). In addition, he plays a critical role as advisor to other Cummins companies operating in India including Fleetguard, Holset and Newage.
“India continues to play a big part in our future growth plans,” said Steve Chapman, Cummins vice president-International and president-International Distributor Business. “Over the past several years, Ravi and his team have taken a number of actions to improve the current business and set the foundation for future growth.”
Venkatesan joined Cummins in 1987 and has held various roles including managing director-Tata Cummins, general manager of the Charleston complex, and general manager of the Piston Ring Division
Cummins Appoints Venkatesan India VP
By Christopher Smith
Cummins recently promoted Ravi Venkatesan to vice president-India. He also currently serves as director of Tata Cummins Ltd. Venkatesan is responsible for Cummins business in India including the Engine, Power Generation, and International Distribution business units. He currently serves as chairman of Cummins India Ltd., a publicly-listed company of which Cummins owns 51%, and its subsidiaries including Cummins Diesel Sales and Service. He is also involved with Tata Cummins Ltd., a 50/50 joint venture with Tata Engineering (Telco). In addition, he plays a critical role as advisor to other Cummins companies operating in India including Fleetguard, Holset and Newage.
“India continues to play a big part in our future growth plans,” said Steve Chapman, Cummins vice president-International and president-International Distributor Business. “Over the past several years, Ravi and his team have taken a number of actions to improve the current business and set the foundation for future growth.”
Venkatesan joined Cummins in 1987 and has held various roles including managing director-Tata Cummins, general manager of the Charleston complex, and general manager of the Piston Ring Division
Trending Topics
08-28-2003, 07:35 PM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
[quote author=Hoss link=board=8;threadid=18933;start=0#msg177856 date=1062101795]
The bottom line is this.....Ford OWNS Cummins. I don't know why you people are in such deep denial over this. It's a fact. Live with it. :
[/quote]
No you moron. Ford owns CumminGs. Get it right.
The bottom line is this.....Ford OWNS Cummins. I don't know why you people are in such deep denial over this. It's a fact. Live with it. :
[/quote]
No you moron. Ford owns CumminGs. Get it right.
08-28-2003, 07:41 PM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
(1) Inquardo, Ltd., NGT, Tapei Technologies, Nansen-Renault, and Benz Transportation Technologies do not exist. Perhaps there is a Canadian division of Allison, I don't know, but that company is made up, too.
(2) Citibank and Manufacturers Bank & Trust do not have a principle business relationship with Navistar. Wells Fargo Bank does not have a principle relationship with Cummins.
(3) Cummins does not own Caterpillar, and Caterpillar and GM have never had significant ownership of Bosch.
(4) Ford has never owned Fuji Heavy Industries or Subaru. Cummins and Ford are not mortal enemies.
(5) Cummins is not going to own the world anytime soon.
How do I know? Because I wrote the above post originally under another person's name (I was in the hospital at the time, and I was tired of reading and watching TV), on this forum, as a joke or satire, in response to comments made by others. Soon afterward, I left this forum for awhile. By the time I returned, Gary-KJ6Q had found my bit-of-fun and posted it on TDR. From there, it's gone all over the internet, web & newsgroups, and a lot of people seem to be taking it seriously. 
;D 
Of course, you're free not to believe me, but I want to clear my conscience and not have a lot of people wasting a lot of time over it. In any event, if I owe anyone an apology, I'm making it now.
I.
(2) Citibank and Manufacturers Bank & Trust do not have a principle business relationship with Navistar. Wells Fargo Bank does not have a principle relationship with Cummins.
(3) Cummins does not own Caterpillar, and Caterpillar and GM have never had significant ownership of Bosch.
(4) Ford has never owned Fuji Heavy Industries or Subaru. Cummins and Ford are not mortal enemies.
(5) Cummins is not going to own the world anytime soon.
How do I know? Because I wrote the above post originally under another person's name (I was in the hospital at the time, and I was tired of reading and watching TV), on this forum, as a joke or satire, in response to comments made by others. Soon afterward, I left this forum for awhile. By the time I returned, Gary-KJ6Q had found my bit-of-fun and posted it on TDR. From there, it's gone all over the internet, web & newsgroups, and a lot of people seem to be taking it seriously.
;D Of course, you're free not to believe me, but I want to clear my conscience and not have a lot of people wasting a lot of time over it.
In any event, if I owe anyone an apology, I'm making it now. I.
08-28-2003, 07:51 PM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
I don't give a rats hairy behind who owns them as long as they keep building engines lke they do.
For those of you in doubt about who has the best diesel engine, you should have been at Scheids last week end. That should have erased all doubts.
(now getting out the Co2 extinguisher to have at the ready)
For those of you in doubt about who has the best diesel engine, you should have been at Scheids last week end. That should have erased all doubts.
(now getting out the Co2 extinguisher to have at the ready)
08-28-2003, 08:16 PM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
All a bunch of malarky. Cummins doesn't really exist, it's a marketing ploy by Dodge so we think we're getting something special, not just another Dodge designed engine. JFK was going to announce this in Dallas but the guy on the grassy knoll had orders to keep him from talking. He wasn't actually supposed to assasinate the president; he was just a little over ambitious. He was only supposed to blackmail him for fooling around with the then Dodge CEO's wife. The wife had spilled the beans to Kennedy about the Cummins conspiracy one night during one of their trists. Luckily for Dodge that Lee Harvey Oswald was there to assasinate the president under Castro's orders and was the one they saw with the gun, though he never actually fired it. Otherwise the whole plan may have been uncovered. Shall I go on? ;D
(Actually, the story at the beginning of this post could have pieces of truth in it. That's usually how they get you. There's just enough truth that you start believing the entire thing. It sounds a little too convoluted to me, though, to be for real)
;D(Actually, the story at the beginning of this post could have pieces of truth in it. That's usually how they get you. There's just enough truth that you start believing the entire thing. It sounds a little too convoluted to me, though, to be for real)
08-28-2003, 11:11 PM
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It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
After reading all this and other posts on other threads, think I am going to start a new thread. Watch for it in a few minutes in 'Other'.
08-29-2003, 12:21 AM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
Holy Web of Lies Batman
The Joker has taken over Cummins and is planning on puting the 5.9 in the Toyota Tundra. :
DB
The Joker has taken over Cummins and is planning on puting the 5.9 in the Toyota Tundra. :
DB
08-29-2003, 01:08 AM
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Re:Does Ford own Cummins...what I learned.
I thought John deere owned Cat thats why chevy could not get a CAT of JD diesel and had to settle for the Durmax which is owned by Honda thats what I was told by my best friends mothers fathers cousin whos last name was Cummings and middle was Ford
DM01 :-[
thats what I was told by my best friends mothers fathers cousin whos last name was Cummings and middle was Ford DM01 :-[