1sttruck

I've run across comments that the Duramx 6600 or Powerstroke 7.3/6.0 weren't 'real diesels' as they were modified gas engines, being V8 and all, and that they were just 'light duty', so I decided to try to compare engine usage. From what I've figured out so far all of the engines were designed as diesels, they are all used in medium duty applications, but there are a few interesting facts. First is that an inline 6 seems to be a standard configuration for the larger diesels, including the Isuzus (designed the Duramax) and Internationals (Powerstroke). The Duramax 6600 seems to be limited to the lighter medium duty vehicles. The Powerstroke 6.0 as everyone is aware is having some teething problems, but it seems to be used up to class 8 like the Cummins is. The data below shouldn't be considered conclusive, and additions and corrections will be appreciated.

Truck Classification by GVWR
Class 1 0–6,000 lbs.
Class 2 6,001–10,000 lbs.
Class 3 10,001–14,000 lbs.
Class 4 14,001–16,000 lbs.
Class 5 16,001–19,500 lbs.
Class 6 19,501–26,000 lbs.
Class 7 26,001–33,000 lbs.
Class 8 33,001 lbs.+

**** Chevy - Isuzu Data *****

Isuzu NPR (Class 4 ) : 4HE1-TC (4.8L I4?)
Isuzu NQR (Class 5 ) : 4HE1-TC (4.8L I4?)
Isuzu FRR (Class 5) : 6HK1-TC (7.8L I6)
Isuzu FTR (Class 7) : 6HK1-TC (7.8L I6)
Isuzu FVR (Class 7) : 6HK1-TC (7.8L I6)

CM C4500 (Class 4) : Duramax 6600 (6.6L V8)
CM C5500 (Class 5) : Duramax 6600 (6.6L V8)
CM C6500 (Class 6) : Duramax 7800 (7.8L I6)
CM C7500 (Class 7) : Duramax 7800 (7.8L I6)
CM C8500 (Class 8) : Duramax 7800 (7.8L I6)
(C8500 : 61,000 lbs GVWR)
(GM states that the 6600 was designed for a 200,000 mile life).

Note that the Duramax 6600 is only used up to Class 5, which is a lot less that the Powerstroke or Cummins 5.9.

**** International - Ford Data *****

International 1652 (class 7) : T444E (7.3L V8)
International 4200 (class 8) : VT365 (6.0L V8)
International 4300 (class 8) : DT466 (7.6L I6)
International 4400 (class 8) : DT466 (7.6L I6)
(4200 max is 35,000 lbs, 4300 max is 37,000 lbs,
4400 max is 40,000 lbs)

Ford F450 (Class 4) : 7.3L Diesel (7.3L V8)
Ford F550 (Class 5) : 7.3L Diesel (7.3L V8)
Ford F650 (Class 6) : Cummins ISB std (5.9L I6), 7.3L Diesel optional (7.3L V8)
Ford F750 (Class 7) : Cummins ISB std (5.9L I6), 7.3L Diesel not an option (7.3L V8)
(Caterpillar 3126B also std on F650 and F750)

Evidently Ford cannot produce class 8 per contract with Freightliner. The 'Blue Diamond' F650 and F750, a joint venture with Navistar International, offer the 6.0L V8 Diesel as std, and the Cummins and Caterpillar as an option.

**** Cummins B5.9/ISB Data ******

Sterling offers the Cummins ISB in the 5500 (class 5) thru the 8500 (class 8). The GVWR on the 8500 ranges from 33,000 to 64,000 lbs.

Freightliner offered the Cummins B5.9 and currently offers the Cummins ISB in the FL-50 (class 5) thru the FL-80 (class 8). The GVWR on the FL-80 ranged to 64,000 lbs. The Cummins ISB is std in the FC-70 (class 8 at 35,000 lbs GVWR).

Kenworth offers the Cummins ISB in the T300 (class 7).

Peterbuilt offers the Cummins ISB in the 270 (class 7).

Although the Cummins is noted as being offered in class 8 vehicles up to 64,000 lb GVWR, I didn't try to verify if you could actually get the Cummins ISB in that heavy of a vehicle.

sdaves

CUMMINS is classified as medium-heavy duty
PSD and DM are classified as light-heavy duty.

If I remember correctly this is based on projected life before usual overhaul (350k - Cummins, 250k PSD,DM).

ramman21921

Whats up SDAVES I posted about a week ago about medium and light duty diesel engines mainly stating that the CUMMINS was a MEDIUM DUTY DIESEL and the rest were modified gas motors. Not busting on anyones manufacturer just stating what I think is the TRUE DIESEL. ;D ;D ;D ;D

wannadiesel

I've never seen any of these three in anything heavier than 30k GVW. They don't have the torque needed to do the work. An ISB in my work truck would be a joke, the 300 hp/ 860 ft# Cat doesn't make it a rocket ship in anyone's imagination. Chevy is honest enough to admit they use the real Isuzu over 19.5k. The heaviest things I've seen PowerStrokes in are school buses rated at 28k, which never run that heavy in the real world. ISB's are in a lot of the short transit buses used in cities where nobody rides the bus. The ones I've seen are rated for 30k, but again they don't really run that heavy. They are rated that heavy due to the beefy axles and brakes they run to stand up to the constant stop and go abuse. Basically any truck over 26k and under 65k has an inline six displacing at least 6.8 liters with a minimum of 600 ft# of torque. Cummins ISC's, Cat 3126's, DT-466E's are typical engines for this weight range. Above that GVW you're getting 10, 12, and 14 liter sixes in tri-axle dumps and OTR tractors, which ain't medium duty anymore.

The no class 8 thing from Ford stems from Freightliner's purchase of Ford's heavy truck division (in '96 or '97 I believe) which created Sterling - the "S" logo fits right where the blue oval used to. Our '99 and '00 Sterlings have lots of parts with Ford logos, but mine has lots of Freightliner labeled bits with no Ford labeled pieces to be found. Daimler-Chrysler owns Freightliner, so now I drive a Ford built by Dodge.

4x4

I know for a fact that the 6.9L that was first put in F#RDs was a converted industrial gas engine, but the block had plenty of beef. Then F#RD started messing with it they increased the bore to get a 7.3L. Then they added a turbo to the 7.3L and continued to tinker with it. In my opinion once the 6.9L was messed with, the reliability went down hill. I don't know about the newer 6.0L or the DMAX.
Just my .02 cents.

4x4

Bodey

Boys, boys, boys...time to step up to the 8 cylinder. biggers better

DieselDaze

[quote author=Bodey link=board=8;threadid=20899;start=0#msg197930 date=1066367593]
Boys, boys, boys...time to step up to the 8 cylinder. biggers better
[/quote]

Bigger IS better!


Rich

dsljunkie

Touche` DslDaze ... Bigger is DEFINATELY better (not more #s)
Scott

KC

The Cummins diesel came from medium duty truck and was de-tuned for the dodge pickup back in 88 (I believe), it has been upgrade through its life to the current 3rd generation.

KC

DieselDaze

In all honesty, I think the above photo is a doctored image.
I think someone has taken the photo given below and just placed the newer engine names on the rods.
I think the following photo is the original:



Rich

Bodey

Ha Ha Ha...Thanks for the lashing boys. I guess I get a little **** not being able to afford a Dodge and all. I guess on the plus side at least I can carry on a cellular call with a client or go through the drive through with my truck running...Who am I kidding, who wants that??? I need a Cummins!!!

spots

[quote author=4x4 link=board=8;threadid=20899;start=0#msg196303 date=1066073076]
I know for a fact that the 6.9L that was first put in F#RDs was a converted industrial gas engine, but the block had plenty of beef. Then F#RD started messing with it they increased the bore to get a 7.3L. Then they added a turbo to the 7.3L and continued to tinker with it. In my opinion once the 6.9L was messed with, the reliability went down hill. I don't know about the newer 6.0L or the DMAX.
Just my .02 cents.

4x4
[/quote]

I dunno if the 6.9 was a gasser or not but I can tell you from experience that the 7.3 is a very reliable engine. Had the IDI in '90 and '93 , DI in '98. Many many 7.3's out there. Tons of ambulances, work trucks etc. The 6.0 has some problems for sure, but I would like to see some data that says the 7.3 is unreliable.

silver_goat

[quote author=DieselDaze link=board=8;threadid=20899;start=0#msg198256 date=1066446224]
In all honesty, I think the above photo is a doctored image.
I think someone has taken the photo given below and just placed the newer engine names on the rods.
I think the following photo is the original:



You know what they say, size does matter!

Rich
[/quote]

spots

Now before anybody puffs out their chest when they see a v8 diesel drive by remember that the rod size is also due to the build design of the engine. (I6 vs V8)
I'd like to see a comparison of an old 3208 Kat and a comparable HP I6. Betcha you'd see the same difference.