mdbrown

I sincerely hope I don't upset too many of you, but . . .

I have read every post I could find on this site regarding the virtues of using one type of motor oil over the other - dino or syn. I do not present myself to be an expert on the subject- I performed heart bypass and heart transplant surgeries for a living.

Breaking it down, there seems to be two schools of thought at play - one side recommending the use of dino motor oil based on, a) the detergent package found in running CI-4 dino, and/or b) cost. The other side recommending the use of syn lubricant based on, a) the acceptance that the newer CJ-4 compliance with CI-4 standards is satisfactory, as claimed by the oil companies, and/or the benefits of using syn relative to cost - longer intervals between oil changes.

I'm not going to jump into the chemical analysis argument regarding the detergent benefits of using one type of engine lubricant over another. Suffice to say, the dino camp often claims that sweeping a cam lobe could result from the reduced zinc contained in the detergent package offered by the syn CJ-4 compliant oils, while the syn camp points out there is no proof of this and the oil companies would be nuts to offer up a product they claim to be a superior motor oil that also just happens to ruin $12,000 Cummins Turbo Diesels.

I will poke my toe into the water this far: Does anyone here have personal knowledge of anyone who has experienced engine failure shown to be the result of the use of a Dodge/Cummins recommended viscosity motor oil, changed at factory recommended intervals -using CJ-4 syn or CI-4 dino??

(The dino/syn fight reminds me of the arguments that would take place when detergent oils were first introduced several decades ago and began to replace non-detergent oils -but, I digress).

Now, moving right along. Of all the arguments for or against the use of one type of motor oil over the other, the cost of the oil itself strikes me as the most BOGUS argument of all. IMO - Your decision regarding the use of syn or dino should be a rational one - that is, you have read and listened to the pros and cons for and against each and have come to an informed decision as to which type is best for you to use.

That said, it seems to me insane to base the type of oil you are going to use in your $12K engine and your $40K-$55K truck on the cost of the oil itself or change intervals. Regardless of which type of oil you use, oil has to be the cheapest thing we put into these trucks. Over the miles driven, considering that 7500 miles is the factory recommended interval between oil changes for most of us, the difference in cost between dino oil at $10/gal VS $20/gal for synthetic is, IMO, all but irrelevant. Obversely, squeezing out every last mile from the lubricating qualities of either type of oil - to extend the change intervals to 10-12K miles, or more in the case of syn - seems to me ridiculous. Some will "save" $30 on an oil change using dino, or justify the use of syn based on extended change intervals then turn around and spend $20 on a oil analysis so you "feel" safe rolling another 2500 miles between changes. What's wrong with that picture?

In addition, I find it laughable that some of you will spend $thousands$ on accessories and engine mods and then base your decision regarding the type of oil to use on cost - either trying to squeeze direct cost savings from the engine lubricant you purchase by way of the cost of the lubricant itself, or indirectly by extending change intervals.

My advice; Choose your motor oil carefully and rationally - use what you decide is the best oil to use in your truck - dino or syn. Forget the cost of the oil itself and change the oil and filter at Dodge recommended intervals, regardless of which type of oil you decide to use or what the various oil company change interval claims might be!!

Just my 2 cents.

hector

A $20.00 oil analysis tells me what's going on in the engine. not just how many miles I can go between changes

RowJ

You raise excellent points. Unfortunately there is no definative answer.
First - The cam problems from CJ-4 oil is mostly from gas race cars. They use diesel oil for the stronger protection.
CTD's have had problems also but only if high hp and when racing.
However, the problems for racers does prove the lower level of protection from CJ-4 oil.


If I had your 04.5, 3500, I would use only CI-4, and I would do oil analysis till I determined my proper oil change duration for my type driving. Probably 5-7500 miles on mineral based oils and 10,000 on synthetics. Your choice.


RJ

rockcrawler304

I stopped reading and worrying about oils long ago. I run the Chevron Premium Blue 15W40 which is what came from the factory and is reccomended by Cummins. I change it every 6K to 6500 miles and use a Fleetgaurd Stratapoer filter. I have seen many oil analysis with this same combo and all look very good.

Unless you are doing something more serious than probably 95% of us on this board are doing, dino oil IMHO is just fine.

.boB

Dino vs. Synth. Always a good argument. Like you, I'm a scientist, and make my decisions on the science and facts. I don't like, "My Granddad said..." answers. I want the facts.

Here's the facts as I see them.

There are three types of oil - Dino, semi-synthetic, and true synthetics. A true synthetic starts with a PAO base stock, and iincludes Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Redline. A semi-synthetic starts with a dino base stock and is then refined until it mimicks a true synthetic, and includes Mobile 1, Penzoil, QS, etc.

True synthetics and semi-synthetics shine in two particular areas - heat management and longevity. Oil is heated mostly by rpm's. My diesel rarely see's more than 2,500 rpm's, so that's not a real concern.

The factory recommendation for change intervals is 7,500 miles during light duty. For me that's about once or twice a year oil changes. For some people that's every other month. Then a synthetic makes good sense.

I use regular Valvoline in the Cummins. But I use Royal Purple in my street/track car.

Using Royal Purple in my Cummins doesn't make sense (for me). It's clearly a better oil. But I'm paying for capabilities I won't use, and that makes it a waste of money. I'll happily spend the bux to get the good stuff for my expensive truck. I'm not going be left stranded somewhere because I saved $2 on a part. But I won't waste money on capabilities I can't use.

RowJ

It goes deeper than that, IMO.
I've been distributing higher grade lubricants for 15 yrs and when it comes to engine oil other factors come into play. Mainly brand loyalty. I never try to sell oil till I have convinced my customer about our quality...through other products.

I've heard it many times - "My daddy used Penzsoil (or Quaker State, or ????), and I'll use it till the day I die!" And who can argue. If someone grows up in a family that never had engine trouble... case closed. Other variables like change intervals, driving habits, type filter used, ect. never get serious consideration.

The other factor seems to be this - The upfront, one time cost of a vehicle is accepted, but the recurring and ongoing price of routine maintenance is, for some strange reason, a point of serious consideration.... and pride, when less than the other guy.

RJ

Hvytrkmech

In a nut shell,

It is difficult to manufacture and install an additive package for PAO based lubricants. (group 4) The traditional and most widely used additive make ups do not bond with the smaller chain molecule of the PAO base.


Group 2 oils, (parrafinic) are formed of long chain molecules that accept and retain additive packages of enormous variances. Group 2 oils are preferred by most manufacturers for this very reason.


Group 3 oils, (parrafinic/synthetic blend), this is essentially the best of both worlds. They use group 2 base stock for the additive benefits but also blend it with a small portion of synthetic base stocks as to effectively bridge the performance gap between groups 2 and 4.

bansh-eman

I think rockcrawler and bob pretty much said what I was going to say.

I stopped reading about synth vs non... I made my mind up on which oil I am running and what filter.

I focus my attention these days to filtration, that's where I am doing all my reading and asking questions. Although the fuel additives (TCW3) have recently re-sparked my interest.

mdbrown

I appreciate the feedback, it's what I had hoped for - I think some excellent points were made, including Hector's reminder that an oil analysis gives more info than simply how far one can safely go before changing oil.

I'm changing oil soon, and while I'm certain some opinions will differ, I think I will be going from dino (parafin based) Delo, to the synthetic offered up by Rotella T5 5w-40. A Baldwin filter will also be used.

And yes, while I think the potential lubricating capabilities of the Rotella T5 are likely beyond what is required for my application/use, I am not opposed to overkill when it comes to lubricants.

A quick question about what to use in the 48RE trans. ATF+4 is required - that's a given. Do you recommend Mopar ATF+4 or is there an ATF+4 synthetic you would recommend instead?.

bansh-eman

I use Valveoline Synth ATF +4

c-bass

I'm using Mobil 1 ATF+4

Dr.Dizzle

I currently use Valvoline ATF+4 in the vehicles listed in my sig; however, you have many choices. I have attached a link of the licensed ATF+4 brands for your review.


http://www.centerforqa.com/licensedatf4brands.html

Dieseljunkie

Agreed,
I use Amsoil hd diesel and marine motor oil, and I ran it for 20k miles before I changed it. I did two samples.. one at 10k and another at 15k. Both came back as good and ok to use respectively. I did not send in for another sample when I changed it at 20k, but for me, 20k is about as far as I will feel comfortable running oil in my motor. Its all about how comfortable you are doing extended drain intervals.
Scott

Thundercraft

Wouldn't the turbo be a considerable source of heat? Towing a trailer up a hill will be heating up that turbo quite a bit.

TexasCTD

Regular Mopar ATF +4 is synthetic. I use it, and change it every 20K...no problems so far at 130K.

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