92smokin blacky

Alright me and my friend are still workin on his 90 that had a bad pump. Well we couldn't get it to run with the pump he supposedly had resealed, and so we bought a used running pump and got it on. Well it definately is a good pump cuz it squirts fuel a lot further when we bled the injectors than the other pump did. And a week or so ago when we were workin on it we bled all the injectors and cranked it over and ethered it a little bit and got it to run. It was barely running, and it sounded like it was running on about 4 or 5 cylinders, and it was smoking like crazy. It was dark so i couldn't tell what color the smoke was but it looked kinda white/greyish. But it was just continously smoking while it was running. We thought it just needed to clean itself out a little since it had been sitting for two years so we let it run a little while and i was messing with the throttle and it seemed to gain a little more throttle response after a while, but it still didn't sound like it was running on all cylinders. The exhaust pipe was wet, like it it had a coat of oil on it, which was just wet soot therefore i was thinkin it was just dumping raw fuel through and not burning it. So i thought we had an injector or two plugged or they had issues. But it got late so we left it for another day to check injectors.

Well we finally got time to work on it again a few days ago, about a week after we got it to somewhat run last time. We tried to get it to run again so we could loosen injector lines and find the bad injector(s). We ethered it and everything and this time we couldn't get it to run at all. You could hear it act like it wanted to fire but it just wouldn't. So I bled the injectors a few more times and still nothing changed. I still had my old stock injectors out of my truck so we decided to put them in and see if it would run with them. We got all the old injectors out but the #5 injector and we couldn't get that one out, even with the injector tool in the sticky. So we decided to leave it and put the rest of them in. We bled them and all and it just did the same thing, acted like it wanted to run but didn't start, but it did smoke a lot less while tryin to start than the other injectors did. I know we should runt the 9mm to 7mm adapters with my i/c injectors but this truck already had a 7mm injector in it on cylinder #6 with no copper washer!!! it must just be a replacement one because its different than the rest and looks like a i/c injector but it still looks to have 4 holes? We figured it wouldn't hurt to at least try my injectors without the adapters since that one didn't have one and it ran good before.

So what do you think the problem is??? I just don't get why we could get it to barely run before and now not at all? I did clip two coils off the stock governor spring and took the collar off the power screw and turned it in maybe one turn before we put the pump on but that is it. I thought it was bad injectors especially since the truck had been sitting for two years with the injector inlets wide open getting all sorts of crap in them. So do you think its still injectors or why is it smoking so much too? I was thinking maybe timing, but the gear didn't move with #1 locked at TDC with the timing pin(already checked all that in a previous thread) and the timing marks are lined up. I was wondering if i had the injector lines on the wrong outlets on the pump, but i traced mine on my i/c truck and did the same with these and they seemed to line right up where they were supposed to go. I did learn the injector lines are different from the i/c and non i/c but they all go to the same spot right??? Or does anyone have a picture of what line goes where on the pump? What do you guys think the problem is? i'm getting really fed up with this truck and just want to get it running and out of my driveway. Thanks in advance. Sorry about the long post, I'm just frustrated with this thing.

thrashingcows

When you got it to barely run, did you play with the throttle? Did it seem to respond at all? I wonder if the indexing on the throttle shaft needs to be tweaked. You could try and move it up one mark and see if that helps. Kind of sounds like its not getting enough throttle to fire.

Where did you line up the pump? I know you said it was locked out with teh pin, but where is the mark on the new IP compared to the old one? Regardless of the marks it should still fire.

Make sure when your messin with the indexing and such that you have the turbo intake open and a block off plate ready to choke out the turbo if it goes in to run-away.

92smokin blacky

thanks for helpin me out with all this thrashingcows, your keepin me sane with this truck ha ha.

I thought i got the throttle indexing right, but I did swap the whole pump tops because the running pump we got was missing a few parts, so we just swapped tops from the other pump, so maybe its a little different. But when we did get it running, it did seem to gain a little more throttle response after a while, maybe I oughta turn the full power screw in a little more to see if it'll run???

This pump I got was unlocked, but the key was lined up at the right spot to fit in the gear just fine and I lined up the timing marks with #1 locked at TDC, maybe I oughta advance the timing just a bit to see if it does anything???

I haven't checked the KSB yet, but it should still run without it right?

And oh we do have the turbo wide open to spray ether in it (with the grids disconnected) and a block ready to block it off everytime we start to crank it over, that was the first thing I got ready to do cuz ya just never know.

crewcabxlt

gotta be timing or throttle index most likely. wish you were closer so i could help !

crewcabxlt

lines do go in same spot- could be gettin air in system ?

thrashingcows

When cranking it if you put your foot at part throttle, or wide open does the motor stumble and try to fire more then when it's just at the idle setting? If it does then the indexing might be off.

As for your timing, I would just leave it alone until you get it started. It should be close to stock timing, enough to get it running. I don't think cranking any more on your power screw is a good thing until you have it going.

I'm glad I can help, I know how frustrated I was with all that went wrong with my IP. Keep at it we'll get it figured out eventually.

92smokin blacky

yeah thats what I'm thinking, I'm sure this pump is good terry, so don't worry about that, this one at least squirts fuel! I'll mess with the throttle indexing and maybe bump up the timing.

One more thing I'm still curious about...So is it two rotations of the crank to one rotation of the pump? Or is it two rotations of the pump to 1 rotation of the crank? I've heard both but not sure which is right, and could this be the problem? do i need to pull the pump and turn it one full turn and re install and see if it runs, or would it not affect anything?

92smokin blacky

I don't think its sucking air, but I'll check that over too. We haven't had a whole lot of time to work on it and usually only can during the weekends or at night in the dark.

I've held the throttle wide open and at half while cranking it over and it doesn't seem to do a thing, it doesn't act like it wants to fire more or anything. I just don't get how we got it runnin once but now we cant. Do ya think its just too cold? it hasn't got way cold here yet but its gettin there, my truck will start fine with no grids.

Thanks for all the help guys.

thrashingcows

The IP turns twice for every one crank rotation. You don't need to mess with the pump, it will work where you have it.

I know you checked before, but maybe the FSS went out on the "new" pump? Maybe pop it out and remove the plunger, then you'll know for sure it has fuel.

92smokin blacky

I pulled the FSS out of this pump before we put it on to check it, and it looked good, but i may take it back out to see if it does anything.

how do i know if its sucking air? just check all the lines and fittings? prime the heck out of it, bleed it and crank it over and watch for bubbles or how do i know if its sucking air?

deanhinsley1963

You might want to run a comp. test to see if it has enough comp. to fire. Then it's just a matter of timing and fuel. also the starter has to turn a certain rpm to fire a diesel.

92smokin blacky

Don't I need a injector dummy with a compression tester to do a compression test? Terry do you have one of these? When we pulled the old injectors out, there is what looked like black oil all over the tip and body of the injector, but I'm guessin it was just unburned fuel mixed with soot?

92smokin blacky

alright the timing has gotta to be off on this thing. I messed with the throttle indexing and checked the fuel filter and it still does the same thing, it will crank over and just smoke like crazy with white grey and sometimes black smoke and sometimes pop as if it is firing on one or two cylinders and thats it. Does it sound like timing since its smoking like crazy and won't run? I still don't get how we had it running once though...?

thrashingcows

I really can't see how your timing can be off. You said that you had the TDC pin engaged, so the gear should not have jumped a tooth. Even with a tooth jump the truck should still fire.

Have you tried rotating the IP to see if that makes a difference? Swing it all the way "up" and try firing it. Then all the way "down" and try again.

Your getting nice strong injection pulses at the injectors? I remember Brandon having a starting issue with one of his trucks, and it turned out that all he needed was a big, fat, new battery to spin the motor over fast enough.

Crossy's son

x2 i was about to say that. I put a used pump on locked the TDC pin and just turned the pump shaft until the key lined up, and slid it in. it wouldn't start and it was making me mad eventually i took a battery out of my dad's 05 and put in it because the POS i had was dying and it was too small anyway.

Fired right up..I opened 3 lines and BAM it just started running like a beast