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View Full Version : Cheapest upgrades to up hp in 1rst gen?


CruisingRam
02-23-2003, 01:40 AM
I am a total newbie to diesals and diesal performance, been building mopar gas motors forever though.<br><br>I want to do some upgrades to my motor, sure wouldn't mind being in the 300 horse range. It has some kind of gale banks exhaust system and intake filter/ fuel filter that is aftermarket, K&amp;N markers on them. Otherwise I think it is stock. <br><br>Is there a bolt on pump that gives more power? <br><br>I am not sure if I want the propane injection unless I can find a good place to mount the tank.

Craig93
02-23-2003, 04:44 PM
A good question, don't know why there are no responses yet, but while you are waiting you might find the answers to your questions in one of the previous posts, try a search or just read through some old posts, good reading regardless...<br>But from what I have gathered opening up the exhaust and making it breath in and out easier is a good place to start, and making some adjustments to your existing pump vs replacing it will add some hp and torque numbers, details are in the old posts....I would like to try tinkering with the pump but do not know enough about the effects on longevity or reliability, can't afford to compromise either at this point.

midwestdually
02-23-2003, 06:39 PM
injectors...turbo...i am no expert...so others will chime in as well

Bushy
02-24-2003, 12:59 AM
Lets assume you want 300 RWHP, that is daily driveable fairly decent EGT's and modest smoke...

You will get as close to that as possible by:
Working your VE pump up near max. (no other options at this time, but you never know about tomorrow.
You will need an upgraded turbo, PDR HX35/16 perhaps
Cam
Increased pump timing
Big honkin injectors... POD's minimum
Oh, fully pressure tested intercooler
Some (to date) sneaky internal mod(s) to the VE

Now that doesn't sound like too much, but it is a challenge getting there.
You can get there with slightly less but now you're into high EGT's, high drive pressures on the turbo and other things. It would be a bit dirty.
On the up side, we're workin on it as we speak ;D ;D

Bob

CruisingRam
02-28-2003, 03:56 AM
Thanks Bushy, keep me posted, go ahead and e-mail me if you got something new to tell!<br><br>What book do you recomend for a newbie to diesals in general, but only have interest in my cummins!

Bushy
02-28-2003, 03:33 PM
The first book I'd hunt down is the service manual for the truck. <br>It's labelled:<br><br>Service Manual<br>D&amp;W 150-350 <br>Ramcharger<br>The number on the rear cover is: 81-370-3108<br><br>Next one would be:<br>Diesel distributor fuel-injection pump - VE (Bosch Technical Instruction)<br>It can be purchased on line and downloadable in PDF format.<br>This is a real good manual showing all the guts and workings of the VE pump we use on our trucks (they show a 4cl pump but it is the same as ours except for the 2 extra cylinders)<br><br>That will get ya rolling.<br><br>Bob

ram91
02-28-2003, 05:30 PM
Before you start bumping up pressures rpm's etc get yourself some guages pyrometer shows exhaust temp 1250* max you want to go; tachometer so you know what you are runnig up to engine speed wise. boost tells you what your turbo is giving as input pressure into intake. then a big pocket book after you start down the slippery slope of bombing you baby. ;D bill

CruisingRam
03-01-2003, 12:38 PM
I have the factory tach, how do I know which upgrades they have already done? There is obviously some parts on there that didn't come from the factory, the exhause, intercooler and air cleaner don't look stock to me. These mods had to be done pre-94 as well, when I bought the truck. I am re-doing allot of stuff on the truck, like paint job and body work, rebuilding tranny, and so now I am turning my attention to the diesal itself!

cumminddg
03-04-2003, 10:28 PM
Dr. Performance makes an injector pump and injectors that add 85-100 hp there is one draw back though it costs $1995.00 installed. however with just a few tweaks to the stock pump that took me about 1 hr. i felt an incredible difference in power, i mean really good. check out http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_power/Power_ve.htm for more info on this. a 16 or even 14 cm housing would also make for great improvements. just my 2 cents worth.good luck anyway you decide to go.

nascar mark
03-04-2003, 11:04 PM
<br>Dr. Performance makes an injector pump and injectors that add 85-100 hp there is one draw back though it costs $1995.00 installed. however with just a few tweaks to the stock pump that took me about 1 hr. i felt an incredible difference in power, i mean really good. check out http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_power/Power_ve.htm for more info on this. a 16 or even 14 cm housing would also make for great improvements. just my 2 cents worth.good luck anyway you decide to go.<br><br>Save your money!!!!!!! Anyone can buy a set of injectors and tweak there pump and make as much or more power for the cost of $400 for injectors. Don't be taken.

CruisingRam
03-07-2003, 04:03 AM
I am going to talk to my brother about this, I printed off the instructions from the link you posted , thanks! Will this kill my fuel mileage when I am at cruising speed though? I wouldn't think so right?

cumminddg
03-07-2003, 05:51 PM
I just tweeked my pump a couple days ago but made a quick 500 mile round trip to Texarkana last night and averaged 16 mpg at 90mph and faster for the whole trip. In other words no I saw no decline in cruising mpg. Now around town if you drive like i do (foot to floor every chance I get) then you will probably see a mileage decrease. Thats the price to pay for never being embarassed by one of those powerjokes again. hope this helps make a decision

furious70
03-07-2003, 07:13 PM
when i turned my pump up i went from 19mpg empty going 75 to 21mpg. when i put the 16cm^2 exh. housing on, it went to 22mpg.

93w3504x4duelly
03-09-2003, 01:26 AM
I too am new too ctd but I own a few mopars,my truck is a 93w3504x4duelly extended cab 5spd 3.54 gears,I love it 19.5mpg in town no less I would like to Bomb it a little bit but I dont want too kill it or give up anything ether.I have all the gages in it so thats a plus, no cat or muff ether it also has a intercooler/turbo banks I think is the brand how can I tell? it has the stickers under the hood with the C.A.R.B.#s or if its stock? <br> <br>Now let the bombin questions start<br>1. I want to run a 4in duel exhaust no cat or muff good/bad? and will the egt rise/fall and how much? (a estamate is good)<br>2. What injectors do you recomend/why?<br>3. When I drive it in 4gear hard up a onramp for example the boost will run upto 20psi@2000rpm then I shift too 5th is this a good sign everything is working?<br>4. Will these mods get me close to say 200hp and what torque output?<br>5. Will I need to play in the fuel pump to get there?

93w3504x4duelly
03-09-2003, 01:36 AM
I ran out of room cont.<br>6. My truck will only rev up too 2500rpm is this the norm? <br>7. What clutch should I put in too harness this new power? <br> Thanks for your time and input Im new too diesels and dont want to be taken!

Monty
03-09-2003, 08:15 AM
<br>I have all the gages in it so thats a plus, no cat or muff ether it also has a intercooler/turbo banks I think is the brand how can I tell?<br>The Banks kit is a 12cm wastegated exhaust housing with the big head actuator, chances are, you probably got the intercooler as well.its <br> <br><br>1. I want to run a 4in duel exhaust no cat or muff good/bad?<br>Sounds good, the only bad thing is there is no kit that lets you run full 4&quot; from the turbo back. Most kits sold have a 3&quot; downpipe and 4&quot; form there. I would suggest looking at Rip Rooks exhaust system<br><br> and will the egt rise/fall and how much? (a estamate is good)<br>EGT temps will vary from kit to kit, but I would guess a 100* drop accross the board.<br>2. What injectors do you recomend/why?<br>Most guys run the Lucas Prince of Darkness Injectors from Piers Diesel, these are the biggest injectors you can buy from an afermarket source unless you have them honed. These babies add 60rwhp and 100rwtq, they actually flow more than the Diamond B 370's for the 2nd gens just in there stock form, but they arent for the faint of heart since they do lay down the smoke, most of it can be adjusted out though.<br><br><br>4. Will these mods get me close to say 200hp and what torque output? <br>Last september I dynoed 222rwhp and 517rwtq. This was with the 16cm housing K&amp;N filter, and turned up pump. This was before I put the Lucas POD's in. <br>5. Will I need to play in the fuel pump to get there? <br>Just playing with the pump and running a good free flowing exhaust and intake will get you up into the 200 range easy. Go to the tech facts section on this webpage there is an article on how to turn up the ve pump. <br>

Monty
03-09-2003, 08:23 AM
<br>6. My truck will only rev up too 2500rpm is this the norm?<br>This is normal, if you want a little more, look on the drivers side of the VE pump. See where the throttle assembly is on the pump? When at WOT, the throttle hits an all thread screw with a locknut on the pump. This is the governor screw. Yours may have a metal tamper proof cone on one end. Just take it off, there will be a locknut underneath it, start turning the screw in 1/8&quot; increments until you get it where you like it. Another option that has been talked about recently is a bigger governor spring. This spring will allow you to FUEL all the way up to 3200 RPM. For more info on this spring, look back at the past threads concerning it. <br>7. What clutch should I put in too harness this new power?<br>Go with a South Bend Clutch, great customer service and a great product as well. The ConO clutch from SBC is a great clutch for our first gens. I am still running my stock clutch with over 200k and the mods you see in my sig. It has held up quite well but in time I will have to go to a SBC. <br>

cumminddg
03-09-2003, 11:09 AM
First look at the exhuast housing of the turbo does it have a wastegate on it, if so then you have an aftermarket turbine housing, also look at the intercooler from the grille, it should stick out past the a/c condensor a little on both sides, is it silver or black. if i'ts silver then it is aftermarket. the stickers you have under the hood should say Banks on them and then name the replaced compnent plus have a C.A.R.B. E.O. number on them. As for the rest of your questions I can't answer them all, although I know that Lucas POD's are about the best injectors out there for first gens. also 20 psi was what i was seeing with my Banks kit, before i played with the pump and installed my BHAF (now i have 28 PSI), 2500 rpm sounds a little low, mine defuels at 2750. But maybe your tach is off. Wish i could help more.

CruisingRam
03-09-2003, 03:21 PM
wow, 93w350dually- that is what I have too! LOL and am exactly as knowledgable as you about mopars and not about diesals LOL<br><br>Okay, I looked at my diesal, and it seems that it is the gale banks everything- smaller housing, intercooler, exhaust, air inlet. The injectors are stock. <br><br>Assuming I make the pump mods only, what should my HP be?<br><br>Then, after making the mods, I add the injectors, how much should my total HP be then? I think this is the way I may go, since the gale banks stuff is already on there, lay down a little cash on the injectors, tune the pump accordingly, and viola'- finished!

Bushy
03-09-2003, 10:26 PM
&quot;..... viola, finished....&quot; [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Ahhh well, I won't ruin your illusion ;);)
Hi, my names Bob, and I'm a Bomb-a-holic....:)


Lets see, PDR HX35/16 cause the EGT's are high, oh, and a cam to help with temps/spoolup/low end pull, porting the head, ATS 3 piece exhaust manifold, 60 lb valve springs 'cause the governor has been bumped to 3400 RPM, tranny/clutch work cause the engine just pulls right thru the stock setup, ..... feel free to jump in here guys..... ;) ;D


Bob.

CruisingRam
03-10-2003, 01:37 AM
well, I am as obsessive as the next hot rodder- but I have a 67 Valiant race car and a 69 Coronet that I will be spending my speed dough money on- the ram is just for pulling LOL

93w3504x4duelly
03-10-2003, 01:04 PM
started to look under the hood for info the banks decals had this 6BTD C.A.R.B.#D161-37 and wastegated turbo system model#6BTT D161-29 with K/N air filter now the turbo has cast in the name Holeset 02men on the side with a data plate riveted on with a H1C the intercooler is natural color hope this helps.<br> My friend owns/runs a exhaust shop he stated a 4in is no problem.If I go to the larger housing,16cm/2 will my current head pipe install he bends exhaust on race cars and is not filmilure with turbo flanges he said he would trim about 2in back on the current pipe then start too flare up and add the 4in down pipe from there. Thx for your input

93w3504x4duelly
03-10-2003, 01:32 PM
Oh by the way you guys are great with the honest help and info is there a DTR chapter near me and do you have get togethers like the jeep fella`s do

90firstgen
03-06-2006, 01:39 PM
Well I dont know as much as most guys on here but if you're looking to not spend over a thousand bucks on turbo and cam etc... then just change your housing to a 14cm and turn the pump up. That with exhaust allows me to beat stock, first model, Duramaxes. I also have the stock H1C turbo. And so far EGTs are in safe range. Housing will cost about 200 bucks from ebay and obviously everything else is do-it-yourself. Thats all you have to spend to show some stock maxes your taillights! Injectors and 4 inch exhaust are on the list. Ill keep ya informed about how i do against a chipped max. Laterz

chuxtruk
03-06-2006, 03:36 PM
I see on Ebay the following Banks system:

NEW BANKS POWERPACK SYSTEM 91-93 DODGE 5.9L CUMMINS*
Item number: 8037545344

Buy It Now price: US $2,172.86

There ya go, from the turbo to the muffler tip and everything in between; twice what you wanna pay and probably enough power for you AND the neighbor [laugh]
I thought this noteworthy because it's usually the newer trucks that have all these fancy speed parts available though Banks has been around and at the forefront of increased diesel power for years. FYI. Chuck

BC847
03-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Ummmm, ........ fellas, y'all do realise this thread is right at three years old? [whistle]

wannadiesel
03-06-2006, 03:53 PM
Wow, one from the deep dark recesses of the vault! [eyecrazy]