Well I have been looking into the CDL thing, I need to have a Class &quot;B&quot; here at work now for a truck that he have that is over 26,000#.<br><br>Anyway I see that when pulling any trialer over 10,000# you need a CDL, a Class &quot;B&quot; if the CGVW is under 26,000 and a Class &quot;A&quot; if the CGVW is over 26,000. So it seems that I have been illegal pulling around the 12,000# trailer behind the 3/4 ton I have now ???<br><br>Getting the 1 ton that will be 12,000# and a trailer that will be 20,000#, so the way I read it I then need a class &quot;A&quot; to pull it around. Same class you need to drive a semi, go figure. I have to get the air brake endorcement also for the truck at work, and you have to take a skill test in a vehicle that has air brakes to get it.<br><br>So the only way I see out of it is to go for the Class &quot;B&quot; with the work truck to get the air brakes. Then go back with the 1 ton and trialer to get the class &quot;A&quot;, am I thinking right here ?

Talk to the license dept you should be able to get your class A which will allow you to drive a class B truck. The test should be the same. Take the air brake written part at that time and then take the A test in your truck with the trailer and come back later for the skills test in the air brake truck. This should save the hassle of spending the money on a B license then having to spend to go to a class A

Only thing is that my Temp CDL run out in December, my truck probably wont be here by then, and I for sure wont have the trailer by then. What a pain in the butt... :'(

My understanding here in VA is:<br><br>Class B CDL - for straight trucks over 26,000 gw OR straight truck over 26,000 AND pulling a trailer under 10,000 gw.. You must also pass the written air brake test or it will show up as a restriction on your license (here in VA it is a &quot;K&quot;)<br><br>Class A CDL - Vehicle over 26,000 gw AND pulling a trailer over 10,000 (a valid class A allows you to drive a class B vehicle)<br><br>You must bring a representative vehicle (Class A or class B with or without air brakes) of the license you want to the DMV to do you walk around (pre-trip inspection) and road test. <br><br>You better ask the dmv about doing the class b with air first and then upgrading to a class A with your truck and trailer later on.. for some reason im thinking that wont fly since the class A truck wont have air brakes.. but hopefully im wrong..<br><br>also make sure you have a valid DOT physical completed by your doctor.. and once you get what you want/need dont let it drop... Ive kept my class B for going on 4 yrs now although i dont use it because I dont want the hassle of getting it back if i need it in the future.<br><br>good luck<br><br>

I have all the doctor stuff done, took all the written test and things except the haz mat. I have my temps but they are done in December, thats why I need to get my butt going and do it.

Mopar_Mudder,<br> Are the trailers your talking about used for commerical use? Wondering if a 5th wheel trailer used for personel use applies to what your saying??? If so, I would think many of us that pull a 5er are in violation of this rule. If so...news to me. I always thought if you were pulling a 5er for personnel use than a regular license would work. ;D <br> Big dawg

It is for personal use yes. The truck will technicaly be in a company name for better rates and insurance.<br><br>This is staight out of the Wisconsin CDL manual<br><br>You must have a CDL to operate:<br><br>Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight over 26,000 lbs. provided the GVWR, actual weight, or registered weight of the towed vihicle is more than 10,000 lbs.<br><br>Who is exempt from a CDL:<br><br>In Wisconsin, fire fighters, ememrgency vehicle operators, recreational vehicle drivers and farmers.<br><br>So with this in mind I am actually illegal now pulling my 12,000# car trailer ;D<br><br><br>What gets me is that any Joe Blow can go out and buy a 50' motor home and not have to know squat to drive it away, their is something wrong with that.<br><br>I will have to call the DMV tommarow and see if I can get any staight answers, but that is ussualy a hard thing to do with a goverment agancey.

just get the CDL and dont worry about it...as far as taking a test for a class A ....all u need is a truck that is registered for over 26,001 lbs.....u dont need a truck that has air brakes to get the air brakes endorsement.....just siply drive a truck like the above mentioned....letter take the written test on the air brakes.......and then when u get your truck...take your 12,000# car trailer in for the combinations test...simple as that...sheesh.

Hello there Mudder-long time no see. I was actually going through my email address book today making a mailout group for our local dieselheads and ran across your address. How's Ol Yeller running? Kinda lost track of a bunch of you guys-once I got my Cummins I probably haven't set foot in the Mechanic on Duty forums 3 times..... :( My bad......also my bad I guess that I haven't even looked at the BB swap pages to see if they are still up....I guess I'll do that today! Next time you're talking to Wyz, MaxT or Ross tell them I said hi and that I'm not dead-just in a parallel universe! :)<br><br>Jason<br>

Good to here from you Jason, long time no see, don't be a stranger.<br><br>Midwestdullay, to get the air brake endoresment you do have to take your skills test with a vehicle that does have air brakes, at least in Wisconsin you do, say so in the book. It all comes down to I will have to take two test I guess, one for the class &quot;B&quot; with the air brake vehicle, and another for the class &quot;A&quot; with the trailer, what a pain in the butt.

<br>just get the CDL and dont worry about it...as far as taking a test for a class A ....all u need is a truck that is registered for over 26,001 lbs.....u dont need a truck that has air brakes to get the air brakes endorsement.....just siply drive a truck like the above mentioned....letter take the written test on the air brakes.......and then when u get your truck...take your 12,000# car trailer in for the combinations test...simple as that...sheesh.<br><br><br>FMCSA mandates that the Class A air brake test is taken on a class A vehicle with air brakes. That is a federal regulation. The states can make the test tougher but not easier. It is possible that some state may not enforce this but for the most part you will have to take the test on an air brake vehicle. There is a way around this problem though. Take the air brake class B vehicle and put a tag along trailer rated for over 10,000 pounds on it and you have a class A vehicle. The trailer does not have to have air brakes, electric is fine, just so the truck has air. I took my cdl class A on a dump truck with air brakes and a 20 foot tag a long.

<br>FMCSA mandates that the Class A air brake test is taken on a class A vehicle with air brakes. That is a federal regulation. The states can make the test tougher but not easier. It is possible that some state may not enforce this but for the most part you will have to take the test on an air brake vehicle. There is a way around this problem though. Take the air brake class B vehicle and put a tag along trailer rated for over 10,000 pounds on it and you have a class A vehicle. The trailer does not have to have air brakes, electric is fine, just so the truck has air. I took my cdl class A on a dump truck with air brakes and a 20 foot tag a long.<br><br><br>That is my first option, problem is finding a trailer I can use that would actually pass inspection, will come up with something.

ok...i am callin the DOT tomorrow and findin out.

Check the thread on Hotshot Driving here:<br><br>http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/yabbse/index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=4611<br><br>Lots of good info in there. I found out the truth by going to the horse's mouth. I talked with a MO State Trooper. He told me how the state views both vehicles and drivers. Check it out.

I got my A this spring.<br><br>It really wasn't all that difficult. I think you guys are stressing out over a pretty minor issue.<br><br>Look at all the Yahoos out there driving trucks.<br><br>How hard can it be??!!

I took the written test yesterday. I passed with flying colors and only missed 1 question out of 100. I argued with the examiner but she pointed out that my answer was correct, but there was a BETTER answer. Oh well I got it. I took everything but the air brakes. I don't have access to an air brake truck so I won't worry about that for now. I may get that at a later date. Now I just need to take the skills test which I am gonna see if I can get it done on Monday. I just talked with a friend of mine who has a Class A and he said he will try to meet up with me to ride to the testing station. <br><br>Just get the book from your local DMV and read it. All the questions come from that book. It was really easy. Now I don't know about the skills test. I have been told that it is difficult, but I have been pulling trailers almost all my life so I don't think it will be too bad.

If you have been pulling trailers all your life, (and doing it properly) you should have no trouble at all. Just don't get nervous about it and make stupid mistakes.<br><br>You are really lucky if you just wrote your test and think you can get a skills test on Monday! I had to wait for months.<br><br>Good luck!

When you take the skills portion, just take your time. Do a proper pre trip inspection. Be patient and listen to the proctor (or proctologist as the case may be) and you'll be fine. Sounds like you did fine if you missed 1 out of 100. I took all seven parts of the Georgia exam and that was a total of 210 questions. HAZMAT almost got the best of me. I have to retake HAZMAT each time I renew and still have problems with it. I got the &quot;nuclear&quot; test last time and since I had never seen any questions on nuke movements I didn't study it. But I have it and that's all that I care about.

The pre-trip (walk around) is usually the hardest part.. I know ppl that have failed the pre-trip because they did area 1, 2, 4, and then 3... the examiner said &quot;sorry&quot; it has to be 1,2,3, and then 4.. sorta stupid in my opinion.. as long as you look at all the areas (in any order) they should let you pass..<br><br>The Haz-mat wasnt too bad for me.. BUT after 9/11 i dropped it when i renewed because the DMV had to call their HQ and and get approval to re-issue the haz-mat endorsement.. This was during the time when it was mentioned the terrorist were getting CDL's with hazmat and had evil things planned.

This website will provide the correct information concerning the need for a CDL. A private individual -not for hire - is quite different from commerical drivers. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/383menu.htm

i talked with some VA motor carrier law enforcement ppl the other day and they corrected me in one area that I didnt know exists..<br><br>According to them (VA had to change their laws to follow the Federal DOT laws for this)... If you are an INTERSTATE (meaning cross state lines) and your truck has a gross weight above 10,000 lbs (or that could be 10,000 or more as well - dont remember for sure) that you MUST HAVE A CDL.. I was unfamiliar with the cdl being required for anything under the 26,001 gw vehicles.. Learn something new everyday...

I think someone is giving you wrong info on that. Every book I have read, and test I just took, states that it is 26,000#. If it is 10,000 well then anyone driving a dually pick-up needs a CDL.

For the truck it is 26000 pounds. The federal law says that no CDL if the truck rated GVW and the total weight of the trailer, loaded is under 26000, but many states have either no CDL for the rated GVW of the truck added to the rated GVW of the trailer and under 26000 or some have the rated GVW of the truck and a trailer rated over 10000 GVW that requires a CDL. Been there and done that in Georgia.

In WI you need one it the GCVW is over 12,000 or if the trailer is over 10,000 (even if the GCVW is under 26,000). <br><br>Actually you need a Class A to pull a trailer over 20,000 with a pick-up at 8,000 (thats 28,000 total), but you only need a class B to drive a 80,000 straight truck, go figure [undecided]

I am thinking about driving for a company pulling their trailers for delivery. They said I need a Class A CDL. I understand the written test part, but how do you do the skills test if you don't have a truck and trailer rated for what weight you are pulling? I have a 3500 with a 20' car hauler, will that setup work for the skills test?<br>Thanks for the info.<br>Chuck

In Alabama that would work as long as the trailer is rated over 10,000. Can't speak for other states.

My statement on needing a CDL for truck over 10,000 (or 10,000 and greater - one or the other) if you are running INTERSTATE (which im taking to mean as a &quot;for hire&quot; - i could be wrong though) is a Federal DOT requirement.. This came from a VA motor carrier enforcement LEO.. <br><br>I agree that I have always seen the part about a CDL being needed for truck/trailer combo greater than 26,000 lbs.. I had never heard of the 10,000 lb CDL until i talked with them..<br><br>Im not sure if the 10,000 threshhold is truck only OR truck and trailer combo OR truck and trailer over 10,000...<br><br>Ill see if i can find the DOT statute that goes with this..<br><br>

I explained it to you. I know very well what it says. There is nothing different. The only 10,000 pound truck that you need a cdl for is to haul hazardous. Your officer is wrong unless Virginia has such a law. For hire means nothing except the type of authority that you need. Not for hire you need to be a Private carrier. For hire you need to be a common carrier.

Maybe the 10,000# you are thinking of is that if you are pulling a trailer over 10,000# you need a CDL, regardless of what you are pulling with. Atleast that is how WI is anyway.

I still have a call into the officer that told me about the 10,000 CDL.. But i looked over the Code of VA and I think he is misapplying the code. <br><br>I think what he read was that VA considers a &quot;commercial motor vehicle&quot; to be a vehicle over 10,000 that travels interstate (doesnt the fed code use the same criteria?)<br><br>The VA code on the CDL states the threshold of 26,001 and up but refers to the vehicle as a 'commercial motor vehicle' as well.. I am guessing he used the term &quot;commercial motor vehicle&quot; from the 10,000 lb area and applied it to the CDL requirements.<br><br>Sorry for misleading anyone and the confusion...

Its a given, most of the police and &quot;Truck Safety Enforcement&quot; units don't know what they are talking about. You have to go to court to straighten the mess out.

Maybe I am wrong, but my wife went to DVM to pickup the book. She was told that here is Georgia, if you are pulling any type of gooseneck, irregardless of weight, you need a class A.

In California if your trailer or 5er GVWR is over 10,000# but less than 15,000# you need a special RV endorsement on your regular driving license. To get one you need to take the CDL written test. If your rig is over 15,000# you will need a non commercial CDL.

Hmmmm what is a &quot;non-commercial&quot; commercial drivers license (CDL)? isn't that a contridiction?

Ya thier is no such thing as a NON commercial CDL that I know of, thats like a double negative isn't it?<br><br>On a side note I went to take my Class A road test the other day, but the instructor didn't make it, gggrrrrrrrr

Boy you guys have confusing regulations down there :o ??? [eyecrazy]... Here it's quite simpe (I think) <br><br>Class 6 - Motorcycle over 50CC<br><br>Class 5 - Two-axled vehicles (except for Class 4 vehicles and motorcycles). These include cars, vans, two-axle trucks and utility vehicles. Motor homes (including those with more than two axles), limited speed motorcycles* (e.g., mopeds or mini scooters), all-terrain vehicles, construction vehicles, trailers 4,600 kg or less and buses or vans seating not more than 10 people<br><br>Class 4 - Taxis, limousines, ambulances, special buses used to transport people with disabilities and other special vehicles – also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Class 5.<br><br>Class 3 - Trucks with more than two axles, including dump trucks and large tow trucks – also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Class 5.<br><br>Class 2 - Buses, including school buses, special activity buses and special vehicles – also permits the holder to operate vehicles in Classes 4 and 5.<br> <br>Class 1 - Semi-trailer trucks – permits the holder to operate all motor vehicles or combinations of vehicles except motorcycles.<br><br>This is taken directly from the ICBC website... <br>

Spitzair their sysem is more complicated except the CDL was brought in to try and eliminate commercial drivers from holding more than one drivers liscence ie; multi states. The concept was to make one commercial drivers liscence to which each person would conform nationwide preventing those who held illegal liscences to be able to accumulate excessive infractions and still operate. There is still problems but it is a step in the right direction, saying that one also has to realize each state which they have more than us has its own regs as we do. For close to 20 years we have also tried to standardize but as you live in BC you should know that they dont always play ball with the boys next door ie; hauling the second trailer behind 5th wheel. As you are probably also aware anybody with a class 5 liscence here can pull up to 42' of rv trailer grossing over 25000lbs without any experience or qualifying, this is not really fair to the guy paying commercial plates, insurance and must qualify first. What is needed is a standard, the fighting and bickering to stop between everyone and the politicions to do their job and put forth a standard legislation deleting favoratism including themselves and let enforcement agencies deal with all of this equally. PK

PK I'll take it one step further. What is needed and we were promased, but did not receive, is a system where the interstates, access roads and recognised US routes all have the same regulations that are not superceeded by state laws. Only then can an interstate trucker even think of compliance with law. Until then you run around waiting for the next county cop to give you a large ticket that goes against the federal license. Currently there is no reasonable way for an out of state trucker (or camper) to comply with laws that he has no way of finding. For instance, the CDL ticket that I received would have gone 50% of the way to losing the license that I did not even possess. And that would also go against the safety rating and I could lose my authority to truck out of state. It's a mess, united hell, we live in the 48 nations of North America. Don't misunderstand that statement, no person loves his country more than I. But this mess of laws needs to be addressed.

Message received loud and clear, stick a national border in between and you have more of the same crap and then some. Add one elected dictator and then you really know what say in making change in the interest of fairness is all about. We should have adopted the european driver apprenticeship system long ago, miraculously insurance companies are now saying this isn't a bad idea (they are starting to lose money). When the people realize that farmers and truckers feed this Nation and with compensation and training on the level of other trades the people will again have spoken. PK

one new regulation you guys better be aware of is,that the government will be doing background checks when you renew.they are posting at work that we will need to go at least one month before it expires to give the background check time to clear.every state has different allowences as to how early you can go renew.they were posting that florida will allow you to come in 18 months in advance of your expiration date.i guess they are really expecting major delays processing the background checks.<br><br>mike

PK, I definitely have to agree with you on the standardization issue, Although Alberta doesn't seem to be that much different than BC... I was actually quite surprised to hear that you can haul a second trailer behind a 5th wheel under 11000KGs over there... As far as driver training goes though, most people I've seen with a class 5 don't have a clue what they're doing when it comes to pulling a trailer, and if you ask me, towing a trailer should be part of the class 5 road test. I'm just teaching my 16 year old sister to drive and before she takes that practical test she's going to have pulled and backed up a trailer many times. Haulin in Dixie, I'm sure hoping that things get standardized throughout North America too. For example, According to what I've heard about those bridge formulas they have down south, (though I might add that I don't know very much about them) I'll bet that if I took a tri-drive logging truck with a tandem jeep and tridem pole trailer to California I'd never see the outside of a prison again, or am I wrong here?

I believe that in California a non-commercial CDL is one where you have passed the requirements for a CDL but are not a professional truck driver.

<br>I'll bet that if I took a tri-drive logging truck with a tandem jeep and tridem pole trailer to California I'd never see the outside of a prison again, or am I wrong here? <br><br><br>Don't know about prison, but I bet you would get some attention at the first scale :P

Well I got my Class &quot;A&quot; yesterday finally, so that is taken care of. Nothin to worry about now, except being over weight [laugh]

This info should help to clear up Calif license requirements for towing 5ers unter 15,000#.<br><br>From Calif Driver's Hankbook ( Non-Commercial License)<br><br>Class C<br><br>You may drive:<br>- any 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less<br>- any 3-axle vehicle weighing 6,000 lbs. or less gross<br>- any housecar<br>- a vanpool vehicle, designed to carry more than 10 but less than 15 persons including the driver. The driver must have a valid medical on file and carry a valid medical card. The driver must also have a signed certification stating he/she has not been convicted of reckless driving, drunk driving, or hit-and-run in the last five years. (VC§12804.9[j] ).<br><br>A farmer or employee of a farmer may drive:<br>- any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less if used exclusively in agricultural operations and it is not for hire or compensation.<br><br>You may tow:<br>- a single vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less including a tow dolly, if used.<br>- a boat trailer provided the GCWR does not exceed 26,000 lbs. when the towing is for recreational purposes or repair, is not used in commerce or contract carrier operations, or in business, is not for hire, and doesn't require an oversize permit (VC §35780).<br><br>With a vehicle weighing at least 4,000 lbs., you may tow a:<br>- trailer coach or 5th wheel travel trailer under 10,000 lbs. GVWR when towing is not for compensation.<br>- 5th wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but under 15,000 lbs. GVWR, when towing is not for compensation and with endorsement.<br><br>From Calif DMV web site:;<br><br>Recreational Trailer Endorsement: <br><br>A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement added to the Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational trailer over 10,000 lbs., but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR which is not used for hire. This endorsement is not required if the driver has a Class A or Noncommercial Class A driver license.<br><br>—There is no fee unless your license is within six months of expiring.<br><br>—Law Test. You will take a law test for a noncommercial Class A license based on the information contained in this booklet. You must also pass the Class C law test unless you qualified for a Class C license within the past twelve months.<br><br>—You are not required to submit a Health Questionnaire or take a driving test to add a Recreational Trailer endorsement to your current license.<br><br>—No other tests are required.<br><br><br><br>

Sure sounds like Kalifornia to me 8) Glad I'm in Dixie