Hodge

I have an interesting question to propose, and there are some stipulations tied to it-
1) Please respond if you have valuable, knowledgable input.
2) Spitballing/stabs in the dark are of little help- please don't get offended, I just need experienced wisdom.
3) With all suggestions, keep in mind that the budget is almost zero. I know- impossible. That's fine- the point is to see which direction is most feasible.

Ok- here is the scenerio. I belong to a Haiti PMG (program management group), with Virginia Mennonite Missions/Conference. We are a US based group of individuals who are interested/invested/committed to work in Haiti, and are the counterpart to a Haiti-based PMG group. Basically, the Haiti PMG comes up with projects, initiatives, etc, and we work on planning, finance, and trip planning, when applicable.
Right now, we are heavily involved in well drilling and reconstruction projects in Haiti. We have an old but reliable cable rig, and some other prospects for purchase there. What we need at the moment is a vehicle- 4WD, dependable, rugged, economical, rugged, diesel, rugged, as inexpensive as possible to own and operate. And did I mention rugged?
What we have been using up to this point is a 94 Isuzu Trooper, which has held up surprisingly well. But, it has seen better days, by Haitian standards. There is no "better days, Haitian standard" comparable in the US. It is beyond reliable, economical, and safe. So, we are looking for its replacement.
Due to the earthquake and current conditions, purchasing vehicles there is VERY expensive, even if you are looking at used trucks imported from the US (possible stolen vehicles?). Plus, most of those are not diesel, or rugged enough. So, we (the PMG) are toying with this idea- could we take a rugged vehicle sold here in the states, probably one that is wrecked and very inexpensive, and build it to survive Haiti? The idea is to take something like an Exterra, strip all of the electronics, put a 4BT cummins in it, beef up what needs beefing, and ship it down to Haiti? Some restrictions that we would face- emissions and inspections would be no issue, but any vehicle brought into Haiti can be no older than 10 years. So, we would have to find a 2001 or newer. Second, taxes on it would be probably 35% of the value of the vehicle, and maybe as high as 100%, depending on how desperate, and who is holding the cards.
The president of our PMG is one of those who like to think outside the triangle- a box is too ordinary. He thinks that we could pick up something here, plant a reliable diesel in it, and ship it down there for $5000 or so- you fabricators, is that possible, or realistic?
The next option is to search and wait for a Toyota Hilux diesel there, something that would probably need attention, but could be bought for $10-15,000, and fixed up. It would be effecient and parts are readily available, and the Hilux's/Landcruisers are about the only vehicles that will survive Haiti.
So- build something here and ship it down, or buy something there? Do it here and ship it for less than $15,000? If we built it here, could we make it rugged and reliable enough to survive Haiti, and find parts for it?

For what it's worth, my opinion is that we are better off to find an available diesel there- in the long run, we have a better chance of keeping it going. I am not looking for validation of my opinion, but experience to learn from.
Mark

chaikwa

I commend you for what you and your group are doing, but that statement quoted above would put me off in doing ANYTHING in Haiti. Here you are, trying to help desperate people and all those peoples government can do is tax the snot out of you? No thank you!

Anyway, as far as your question goes, I'd wait and find something already down there. When you said 'rugged' I was thinking Unimog or Duece and a half rugged, not Toyota rugged. Certainly something could be made as you've specified here and shipped down there, but I would be afraid of having whatever I built here getting wrecked or stolen while enroute to Haiti. I'm sure you're not the only ones that could use a rugged vehicle. Or parts there-of.

Maybe find something down there and modify it to your needs using local talent? Or bring in someone from here that could teach the locals how to do such things if no one down there does stuff like that.

Russ Roth

Something similar is quite common in many parts of the world. I made a return trip with some fellers to Vietnam right after 9/11 and our guide/interpreter had to do a little payola at the last minute as we were leaving to come home, at the airport. Weren't going to let us get on the plane home.


My wife and I also adopted a set of twin 12 year old girls from Nicaragua recently. We lived in Managua for 3 months with them before bringing both home. It was called "professional recognition" there. My wife said she was starting to feel like an ATM machine before we finally got it all done. I need to try that line with my Boss when I get back to work. Pretty common, especially in third world countries.


That's a good thing you and your group are doing, Hodge.

.boB

Picking the right vehicle to start with can be tough. Start by looking at the most common vehicle there. When yours breaks (not "if", but "when") you want easy accesability to replacement parts.

Keep the drive line essentially stock. Finding aftermarket parts in Haiti will be just about impossible.

Same thing with fuel type. What's the cheapest and most available fuel in Haiti? I'd almost bet it's not diesel. Since you were using an Isuzu Trooper, you probably were not hauling big loads. And since you're not driving very fast around there, I'd be looking for a 4cyl gas engine.

Importing a vehicle from another country can be pretty expensive, and difficult. Despite their economic woes, they have a trememndous amount of red tape. Which certainly contributes to their woes.

Consider buying a vehicle there, making a list of what work it needs, then shipping parts and a mechanic down there to do the work. Since you already own the Trooper, ship down a new(er) driveline, axles, brakes, etc, and rebuild what you already have.

Hodge

I will fill in some info here.
The most common fuel is diesel, and it's about a buck less a gallon than gas. Unimogs and deuces are to big, wieldy, and expensive to maintain in Haiti. Plus, they don't fit everywhere- same thing for hummers.
We worked the snot out of that trooper. For a good part of its life, we towed a 6,000 lb+ portable, trailer built hydraulic well drill with it. The trooper could fit places that a full size truck couldn't.
Toyota's are the most prolific vehicles in Haiti, and the toughest. Nothing, and I do mean nothing, takes the beating that those diesel Hilux's and Land Cruisers do, and come back for more. Because of this, they are plentiful, but parts are expensive. In many cases, you order from outside the country, and finagle the parts in through customs. Nothing in Haiti is easy- it boils down to which vehicle offers the fewest difficulties to own and maintain.
So, at this point, I read that the vote is to buy in-country. There is no doubt that a 4 cylinder, diesel 4WD Toyota Hilux will hold up, but they are very pricey new- after taxes and such, probably over $40,000. Used, they are getting hard to find- people don't want to let them go, because a replacement is so expensive and difficult to find. We had run across two candidates, but the sellers backed out.
On a side note, a US missionary (www.missionaryjames.com) there has a 2011 Landcruiser diesel- I posted some photos on here back in March. He has been buying and hoarding replacement parts, because the earthquake in Japan has made it difficult to get them, with no immediate end in sight.

Hodge

By the way, the reason we used a Trooper is because at the time, it was cheap, and they were plentiful. Most of them were brought down from the US. I have an 85 Ford Bronco there, but parts are very hard to come by, and it loves the gas. It is very expensive to drive. I only have $1,000 in it.

HMX-1

Since it's Haiti, and obviously emissions won't matter like they do in the States, why not a third choice:

Buy from another country (not the US or Haiti).

As this is for missionary work, there should be somewhere else (Mexico, Central America, and South America for starters) you could "source" a vehicle from that won't look like its coming from the US (on paper at least), and avoids the potential "let's tax the heck out of the vehicle coming from America" attitude you'll more than likely run into. You could still get a diesel, maybe something newer than what you've found locally, and also run any potential parts shipments from this alternate location as well.

If that becomes a problem, you could also ship it or source it from the Dominican Republic and then drive it across the border ..... maybe even get your parts shipped there as well.




-Kris

Hodge

Any vehicle being brought into the country, whether from the US, another country, or the DR, is subject to this tax. James, the missionary that I included a link for, just bought a brand new Land Cruiser, which came directly from Japan. He had to pay a small fortune in taxes, and he is a legal Haitian resident. He researched every option, including buying one in the DR. It's not so much coming from the States- it's the color of our skin, perception of how thick our wallets are, and desperation.

zulusafari

I was thinking like HMX-1, not necessarily about the inmport tax, but the availability of the vehicle you want. I loved the HiLux when I was overseas, and really want one here in the states! They are very tough, easy to maintain, and handle daily conditions my truck has never imagined. You might beable to source a decent Toyota HiLux in another country - Columbia, Costa Rica, Brazil, MExicao -- and have it shipped in for the same price or less than waiting for one in Haiti. Of course, you cautioned against "stabs in the dark", which this truly is, since I have no experience or research in availability or prices of these vehicles for export to Haiti.

Rednecktastic

Buy a couple 94 Troopers here, maybe a wrecked one. Then you have plenty of parts.


What are they worth, like 2 grand?

Hodge

Can't do it- you can't import it into Haiti if it's over 10 years old.

HMX-1

Okay so importing a vehicle due to taxes is pretty much out of the question.


What about sending pre-bent "water pipes", and then having these "water pipes" welded together to form the chassis of a purpose built vehicle?

I know it sounds shady and I'm not one for doing that, but it solves multiple problems. You could also use a donor vehicle for the powertrain and sheet metal for a body. Pop rivets, a drill, and some cutting would get you the basics. The only problem you'd need to overcome would be a parts source, unless you could get them from the Dominican side.



-Kris

Busboy

How about an ex military Landrover not very good looking but very practical. I'm not sure how long they are kept but I don't think it's very long. They are simple to work on, they can pull a trailer to carry heavy loads and a long wheel base one seats 13.

zulusafari

Good choice, also pretty tough vehicle. I think the Series Land Rovers have been out of production too long, though, but not sure. It might be beyond the 10 year limit. When I was overseas, several guys had the old landy's converted to chevy v-6's for more power and reliability. They cruised well, and had lots of grunt with the low gearing used for the four bangers they replaced.

Do they still have the diesel Toyota Land Cruisers down there? They were pretty tough, and were plentiful in the older body style up to about 2003 or so in most non-US markets if I recall correctly.

gadget.35-06

Put a 4BT in the Bronco. That way your over-10 vehicle is already there and you're not importing a whole vehicle.