Is anyone running Bio diesel in there truck that are still on warrenty? What does DC say about it ? The dealer here sayed they would not warrenty anyting that was fuel related so that could be the whole motor and fuel system. With diesel over 3.00 a gallon here and headed for 5.00 I would like to run Bio but my new truck only has 1700 miles on it so I would not want to kill the warrenty. So I may just put it in storage . Thanks for any help . Pete

Any vehicle manufacturer only warranties 5% bio. Since it seems to be a standard figure between DC, Ford, GM and VW, there's probably a reason behind it. (Yeah, they don't want to stick their necks out.) I'm sure you could use a higher % (I have.) but if they do a fuel test you might be SOL.

Here's some interesting reading from the Cummins site "Cummins' position on the use of Biodiesel fuel in Cummins" -->
http://www.cummins.com/sa/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000947AD-64AE-1B8D-BCF080C4A8F00000

One statement sticks out:
"Failures caused by the use of biodiesel fuels or other fuel additives are NOT defects of workmanship and/or material as supplied by Cummins Inc. and CANNOT be compensated under the Cummins' warranty."

You guys are both missing the picture totally, no offense. If you have ANY fuel related problem, it's YOUR DIME! No manufacturer will cover a repair that occured due to a bad tank of fuel, it doesn't matter if it's b5, b100, dino, or mouse-pee. If you put something in the tank that messes up the engine, you are responsible, period. So the real question then is, do you trust biodiesel enough to run it in your engine, or any other fuel for that matter?

I have run up to b50 in my truck, although b20 pay at the pump is going to be more frequent for me now, since one just opened up in my area.


Lastly, your dealer doesn't need to know what's in your tank and I wouldn't say the 'b' word anywhere near them. We all know how the dealerships will try to blame anything they can to deny a warranty claim.... ie. your a/c isn't working? Sorry, you have an aftermarket exhaust, your warranty is void ;)

Can you run mouse pee? Whats the MGP's like?[eyecrazy]

For real though, I would think that commercially blended bio's should be safe.

Now, if you have done something stupid while whipping up batches in your brother in law's basement, it's an ethics mater on the one trying to get warranty coverage......:)

PJ I havent tried it ;) Again though, what fuel you run has absolutely zero to do with warranty coverage.

The Cummins site seems to be really poo-pooing bio. Seems to fly in the face of common "knowledge".

Andy

When you consider that some guys are running used engine oil in their diesel....?

Realsquash Cummins is actually pretty positive in their statements about blends up to b5, and in the end if you read thru the lines you'll realize their stance on anything up to b20 is pretty neutral. They say they haven't tested it extensively(however many years ago they wrote that statement), but in the limited testing they've done they encountered no issues. I'm not sure about common knowledge, but my experience is that I've run b20-b100 in three vehicles now since 2001 and haven't had any issues.

Lee also makes a good point, consider this is an ASTM certified fuel that people are so worried about, compared to running used engine oil which cummins approves up to 5% also..

If ever we needed a national biodiesel incentive it is NOW!

Originally posted by larryt
If ever we needed a national biodiesel incentive it is NOW! I second that motion!

Would it hurt to run a couple of gallons of filtered WVO with a full tank of fuel? My neighbor goes through at least 10 gals a month....

Originally posted by larryt
If ever we needed a national biodiesel incentive it is NOW!

There is grant money available for starting up biodiesel production from the EPA.

MikeyB

I'm not trying to kill bio here, but unless the manufacturers support the stuff it's never going to take off. From that page:

In addition, from Cummins' fuel systems suppliers, the following issues are also noted: swelling and hardening/cracking of some elastomer seals within the fuel system/engine, corrosion of fuel system and engine hardware - especially aluminum and zinc, solid particle blockage of fuel nozzles and passages, filter plugging, injector coking, higher injection pressures due to physical flow properties - reduced fuel system life, added stress and heat to injection components - especially rotary fuel pumps - increased pump seizures and early life failures, poor fuel spray atomization - reduced fuel economy. Pure biodiesel fuel is not stable and its acid content increases over time which can damage powder metal components.

So how does that make anyone want to run their $40k truck on bio in any concentration? Is bio really not as great as everyone makes it sound? Is that why it's not coming to market with any speed?

B5 is the same thing as running crappy #2 to Cummins. I suspect the only reason they say 5% is ok is due to the fact that straight #2 can probably have 5% of other stuff in it and run fine. So if that 5% of crap in #2 happens to be bio, it should be fine, too. Same goes for the waste oil that people use. You could probably emulsify 5% water in that #2 and it would run fine, too. That's half a gallon for every 10.

That said, I would stick my head out and run B100 all summer long if I could find the damned stuff! The closest place to me is an hour drive, one way, and they only have B11, and the price is the same as straight #2 (B0?). I've heard of a retail place in Batavia, IL that has B100 but that's hours away. If I lived on a farm I'd get the stuff in quantity and store it at home but I can't do that.

Andy

Originally posted by larryt
If ever we needed a national biodiesel incentive it is NOW!

Maybe someone who is a little more computer literate than myself could start a thread where we could sign on some sort of a petition & send it off to the powers that be. doubt it would do any good, but I'd be willing to try:D

Originally posted by realsquash
I'm not trying to kill bio here, but unless the manufacturers support the stuff it's never going to take off. From that page:

In addition, from Cummins' fuel systems suppliers, the following issues are also noted: swelling and hardening/cracking of some elastomer seals within the fuel system/engine, corrosion of fuel system and engine hardware - especially aluminum and zinc, solid particle blockage of fuel nozzles and passages, filter plugging, injector coking, higher injection pressures due to physical flow properties - reduced fuel system life, added stress and heat to injection components - especially rotary fuel pumps - increased pump seizures and early life failures, poor fuel spray atomization - reduced fuel economy. Pure biodiesel fuel is not stable and its acid content increases over time which can damage powder metal components.

Andy

Realquash - where did you get this qoute from.. just wondering and would like to read the stuff/article... thanks..

It came from the site listed on this thread, http://www.cummins.com/sa/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000947AD-64AE-1B8D-BCF080C4A8F00000

It's decent reading, this quote is from about the bottom of the "2nd" page, at least in my broswer.

Andy

Realsquash, any cummins statement on bio I've read is now reasonably outdated. You must also recognize that these are NOT TECHS writing these articles about biodiesel from Cummins. While it may sound like techs wrote it, the reality is that the lawyers have the final say, and manufacturers' statements about relatively untested alternative fuels or other aftermarket products, are scripted in a cover your a$$ posture. It all comes down to $ and legal liability.

In any case, you say b5 is the same as running crappy #2 to the Cummins, which is not true. Quality ASTM biodiesel even at 5% will greatly increase the fuel's lubricity, reduce emissions, and will also boost cetane. It's interesting to note that every Jeep Liberty CRD comes from the factory with b5 in the tank. I saw my first CRD on the road yesterday, they are pretty darn quiet!

Lightman,

I'm with you, I've read enough about it over the past couple years that I'm not worried about running even B100 (in the summer). But that link is to the FAQ on Cummins' site. It's the first place anyone is going to look for bio info on the net, for their Cummins.

Andy

I hear ya realsquash - I just hope some of them take manufactuers' statements with a grain of salt.

You are braver than I - I've yet to try b100 in my Cummins and don't see doing it in the near future. I guess it takes a bunch of guys like you that are willing to try it before there's enough of a track record for chicken-shoots like me to try it ;) I did run 35k worth of b100 in my tdi, but was far from the first! Plus the cost of b100 these days makes it totally unrealistic to run, unless it was homebrew..

Lightman

I aggree on the lawyer (BS) [yuk] ! Anything and everything these days in big business and $$$ has cover my a$$$ lawyers stamped on it!

Well the last I read the B100 pump in Batavia, IL was at $2.98/gal. I passed a couple stations today on the way to work where #2 was $2.96/gal so it's time for me to at least try it. Batavia is 2 hours away from me, so it's more of a novelty at this point. There is a station a lot closer, but still not close, that has B11 for $2.56/gal.

Andy

Everything Lightman said

I did lots of research before I picked up my '05. My 2nd tank was B5, and B20 after that. I am very comfortable running these levels and I will probably run up to B50 at times. Though I don't think B100 would be a problem (all this is temperature dependent) I want to see more history in these engines before I do that.

The Engine Manufactures Association said in Feb '03;

"Based on current understanding of biodiesel fuels and blending with petroleumbased
diesel fuel, EMA members expect that blends up to a maximum of B5 should not
cause engine or fuel system problems, provided the B100 used in the blend meets the
requirements of ASTM D 6751, DIN 51606, or EN 14214. If blends exceeding B5 are
desired, vehicle owners and operators should consult their engine manufacturer
regarding the implications of using such fuel."

I think most of the potential issues that are listed by Cummins were on old vehicles with lower quality bubber components, or with pre ASTM spec fuel.

Hi all,

Here's some interesting reading about how Berkeley CA ran 100% biodiesel in all their city trucks for two years and then backed away from the program:

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2005/Biodiesel-Fuel-Berkeley18mar05.htm

Cheers

That is a pretty spiffy article. The gist of it was the city claims it got dirty/moldy fuel from their supplier after a year with no problems, the supplier says they might have water contamination in their tanks, promoting the mold and algae. That was with B100. Interesting.

Andy

everyone

**** check the post I listed on a cummins 04 converted to run SVO (streight Veg. oil)