Dont need a fifty page explanation, just curious as to your stand on legality of biodiesel.

As it stands, there are strict guidelines to motor vehicle fuel, which manufactured bio diesel meets.

No homebrew can meet or exceed these guidelines at all, and because it is not taxed it is also illegal to use in consumption on public roads.

Another issue, is in many states, waste oil, that some use for bio, is illegal to transport without a licesne.. since it is considered hazardous waste.

So whats your take on it?

Think youre above the law and invincible? Think its ok as long as you dont tell everyone about it? Will stick to buying biodiesel from a legal source? Or do you just not understand any law and are oblivous to it?

I guess you're talking about not paying road tax on homemade BD.
Don't think you have to pay tax for the first 300 gallons per year.
Haven't heard of any enforcement so far but you can bet it won't be long.
What the heck, you use the roads, you should help maintain them.

In some states burning waste oil is illegal due to smog laws.

From what I understand, it's perfectly legal to use a Fuel Additive in the tank of your on the road vehicle.
Home-Brew Biodiesel added to your regular Store Bought diesel fuel is an additive, right?
If I can figure out how to make it, I'll be adding ~20% bio tomy regular diesel.
That's the same ratio that you can purchase at the pump at stations who carry Bio.

Originally posted by Shovelhead
From what I understand, it's perfectly legal to use a Fuel Additive in the tank of your on the road vehicle.
Home-Brew Biodiesel added to your regular Store Bought diesel fuel is an additive, right?
If I can figure out how to make it, I'll be adding ~20% bio tomy regular diesel.
That's the same ratio that you can purchase at the pump at stations who carry Bio.


And of course the 99% bioDiesel as an additive, right? ;) [whistle]



I think that home brewed bioDiesel is really as illegal as all sin... I don't know as much about the stuff as Infidel does, but the 300 gallons thing sounds like a state matter to me... As does the limits to transportation, but that might be DOT territory. But I also don't know how they can detect what you're running...

Ultimately, however, modifying our exhaust systems, smog control systems, or injection pumps is illegal too... As are all of the performance boxes that everybody runs on the newer engines. "Illegal" is what you make of it...

When I looked into this tax thing a while back, here's what I found out as best I could understand it. You can make upto 400 gallons per quarter before you have to pay Federal taxes on it. My state (Missouri) does expect you to pay state road taxes on homemade fuel if you're using it on the road. Last time I checked, the Missouri tax was something like $.17/gallon.

I personally would not even come close to making or using 400 gallons per quarter so all I would be liable for is the state taxes. It's been about 8 months since I priced raws, but at the time, the raws would cost $0.71/gallon. Add on the $0.17/gallon and it's still only $0.88/gallon.

I didnt know there were laws for biodiesel. I knew the government would find a way to screw us.

Originally posted by Begle1
And of course the 99% bioDiesel as an additive, right? ;) [whistle]

. But I also don't know how they can detect what you're running...


In AZ here once in awhile the block off a road and pull over all diesel vehicles.. most specifically for "red diesel" from farms... but ive heard a few bio's being caught and prosecuted for tax evasion.

Mechanos
That's the same thing I found too on several of the bio diesel forums. Some have said it is even hard to pay the taxes if you want or try to.

bentwings

Originally posted by Timmay2
No homebrew can meet or exceed these guidelines at all, and because it is not taxed it is also illegal to use in consumption on public roads.


Small Scale Blender Excise Tax Emptions
From the IRS: The applicable diesel fuel tax rate is 24.4 cents per gallon. This tax is paid by submitting Form 720 Quarterly Federal Excise Tax Return.

Biodiesel is considered as a blended diesel fuel. The person that produces the blended diesel fuel, outside the bulk transfer/terminal system (blender), is liable for the tax which is imposed under IRC section 4081(b) upon sale or removal.

An exclusion from tax on the "blended taxable fuel" mixture is provided in Treasury Regulations section 48.4081-1(c)(1)(ii) for minor blending if: during any calendar quarter the removal or sale of the mixture in aggregate by the blender is less than 400 gallons. The IRS Form is 720 and publication 510


In addition, from what I have been reading on the web, the " home brew" can often surpass ASTM standards, this being dependant on the proficency of the "brewer" and their willingness to take the time to do it right...
So I am not sure all your assumptions for your poll are correct, based on what the ASTM website says the standards for PH, Glycerin level, ect. are and what folks are reporting their "brew" tests at. I must add that I have been studying this, but havent finished my processor yet to have personal experience at "brewing"
edit: BTW, which states consider waste vegetable oil a HAZMAT?? Its not listed in the 2004 CHRIS guide and I cant say we ever covered it in the HAZ-MAT Response schools I have been to...I am not trying to be a smart alec, realy curious which states list it as HAZMAT

California is one state that classifies WVO as hazardous waste.

"Blend" is one thing. Im not refering to people who will put 20 gals of diesel and 10 gals of bio in their tank.. im referring to those that will only use what they make. theres no "blend" to it at that point.

Originally posted by Timmay2
..."Blend" is one thing. Im not refering to people who will put 20 gals of diesel and 10 gals of bio in their tank.. im referring to those that will only use what they make. theres no "blend" to it at that point.

From the post above: Origianally posted by Chrisreyn

...Biodiesel is considered as a blended diesel fuel...

[i]
edit: BTW, which states consider waste vegetable oil a HAZMAT?? Its not listed in the 2004 CHRIS guide and I cant say we ever covered it in the HAZ-MAT Response schools I have been to...I am not trying to be a smart alec, realy curious which states list it as HAZMAT [/B]

Anything can be considered HazMat depending on what it is and how it's spilled. Especially if it's near water. Milk is considered Hazmat because in large quanities it would cause damage to the ecosystem harm streams etc. You don't have to report a diesel spill of say a gallon to the EPA (or here DEQ) unless it gets into the waterway then it's a big deal.

Here you can buy a tax stamp for pot, coke (NO,not the cola), meth, ammo
or just about anything the state wants to tax.


Look out I smell a snitch out there somewhere.

What a great way to stiffle recyling and conservation. Taxation and over regulation.:mad:

Originally posted by Vulcan
What a great way to stiffle recyling and conservation. Taxation and over regulation.:mad:

Well, give the feds some credit, they really haven't been cracking down on it. At all, for all I know.

I think that any politician who pushed for an end to bioDiesel would be branded a terrorist, Saudi sympathizer and environment killer. I think that it would very well be political suicide.

Originally posted by Chrisreyn
An exclusion from tax on the "blended taxable fuel" mixture is provided in Treasury Regulations section 48.4081-1(c)(1)(ii) for minor blending if: during any calendar quarter the removal or sale of the mixture in aggregate by the blender is less than 400 gallons. The IRS Form is 720 and publication 510

If this applies to blending biodiesel then what about WVO?

Originally posted by MedicShawn
Anything can be considered HazMat depending on what it is and how it's spilled. Especially if it's near water. Milk is considered Hazmat because in large quanities it would cause damage to the ecosystem harm streams etc. You don't have to report a diesel spill of say a gallon to the EPA (or here DEQ) unless it gets into the waterway then it's a big deal.

Yes I know, heck water can be a hazardous material in enough quanity...ask New Orleans.
I was asking what states actually regulate the transport of waste vegetable oil, particularly in the quantities that most home bio producers transport( 40-55 gallons)...
I have an aux fuel tank on my truck, so I haul 56 gallons of fuel oil when "fully loaded".
This is not enough to qauntify me as a hazmat transport, even tho diesel IS a regulated material. Also it is not for commercial use or sell.....so I was trying to understand how the WVO used by a home brewer would fall into the offical "HAZMAT" catagory...

I don't know if this would make a difference but your aux fuel tank is (or should be) also DOT certified to safely carry fuel, it isn't like driving around with a full 55 gal drum of fuel in the bed of your truck.

I think that we should continue to be raped by the big oil companies and Government beuracracy instead of taking our energy needs into our own hands [tapdshut]

Rick

IMO the government should PAY US for making our own and burning it... I probably use a full tank (35gallons) every week, so thats 1820 gallons a year, and if we take that further and say 1000 of the members here do the same thats 1.8 millions of diesel we free up for the good of the country and the economy!

And as far as I am concerned, the Internal Revenue Service can put their forms in a really illicite pipe and smoke it.

I have neither the money or the desire (at this point) to manufacture bio from WVO, but if I could, I sure would.

[QUOTE=Begle1]And of course the 99% bioDiesel as an additive, right? ;) [whistle]

[QUOTE]

That's what I'm counting on.