View Full Version : Antifreeze for Diesels
03-18-2004, 11:38 AM
A guy at a diesel shop was talking to me the other day and said he had a 92 that someone was running the wrong antifreeze in and he lost the head-gasket. I didnt know there was but two different basic antifreezes out there ,Basically the pink stuff GM runs in there vehicles which shouldnt be mixxed with the normal green stuff . Maybe im wrong but the only time we change it down here is when you break the system down or add. Temps dont get cold enough to worry about freezing. Only thing im worried about is corrosion. and if you dont run antifreeze the boiling point is lower.
03-18-2004, 12:17 PM
well i didnt know either . so why dont you ask him what is the right stuff to be running. sometimes these guys are talking out of the wrong place. be sure to let me know though im curious
03-18-2004, 12:30 PM
Well i kinda felt dumb and didnt want to make the guy think i was an idiot ? I also didnt want to call his bluff and make him mad .I buy my aftermarket parts from them and they do me right .
everything else they have told me has been correct ?
I dont think they were trying to sell me any kind of super duper antifreeze ? Only reason i asked was i need to top my truck off now and the thought crossed my mind.
03-18-2004, 02:01 PM
When the orange long life AF first came out it wasn't compatible in some vehicles.
Now though it's been reengineered so it's compatible with all rigs.
The only AFs you don't want to be using are high silicate formulations. I think you would have to go out of your way to find them though.
03-18-2004, 03:50 PM
Just a side note.
I read in an article (on-line) when I was looking into using the orange stuff for my Dodge
. The article went on to state that there was only two factories in the US that made all anti-freeze, and one of them had recently burnt down? So, I guess the author was trying to imply that all brands of antifreeze come from the same place.
So, save a few bucks and buy whatever is the best priced in your choice of coolant.
If you do switch from green to orange, make sure you really flush the old out, and don't forget about the stuff that remains in the heat exchanger near the turbo.
I have had no trouble at all with the orange stuff (Texaco/dex-cool). Good luck, Kevin
03-18-2004, 07:55 PM
Green or extended orange just use distilled water to mix with if you cherish your heater core and do not enjoy removing the dash to replace. The info on the extended run orange is right on, it has been revamped, the hardest part is getting the complete system cleaned out of the green, Goodluck,,Rick The guy at the diesel shop was semi correct on the fluid, as far as the ford diesels are concernd as for electrolysis and the extra additive that is required and needed at intervals.
03-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Kenworth and Peterbilt both use the CAT extended life in the CAT powered trucks... .. . . . ... yada yada ..... Dark Red in color (probably the same as Orange) synthetic blended coolant, looks like blood when you rip a radiator hose off in the snow. Works just like every other coolant but the above mentioned points about additives should be taken note of. I have had the CAT extended Life in mine works fine but it is a giant pain to locate in BFE montana, CAT recommands not mixing with the orange extended life wonder what the difference is.
03-21-2004, 12:19 PM
I too switched to the Dexcool/GM orange stuff. I run it in all my vehicles, including my motorcycles. (Fingers crossed) Never had a problem. I had a motorcycle mechanic tell me the same things about bad things happening by using it in a motorcycle. I told him I'd been using it for years with no problems and asked his source of information. He stammered and never answered my direct question. Enough said. [dummy]
03-21-2004, 12:55 PM
Most Diesel engines are prone to cavitation of coolant in the cylinder water jackets causing wear from that side. This is why you should use the lowest silicate AF you can find. The 5.9 Cummins is not prone to this but I still use Rotella premixed.(I think it's ELC) It is expensive but it will go the life of your engine ....... unless you expect to go over 600k before you want a new one. It is mixed with deionized water so there is no mineral buildup. Have it in mine for over 100k and can still clearly see the core when you remove the cap.
03-21-2004, 08:24 PM
Rotella ELC is recommended for 600,000 miles or 12,000 hours before changing. At about 300,000 miles or 6000 hours an ELC Extender additive is required. I would not want to go further than that. pH is what the variable is and if the pH drops the increasing acidity will attack components in the cooling system. The jug labels say ELC meets requirements of Cummins, CAT, Mack etc.
I bet for a minute there you thought I was Shell salesmen.
03-21-2004, 09:03 PM
I just changed my 2000 to Fleetguard ES Optimax. I got the 50/50 mix for $9.20 a gal. at the local International dealer. They had to order it fron Fleetguard. It's red not orange and has a service life of 600,000 miles (300,000 mile then add their extender for 300,000 more). I think I will go with the 60/40 in my '97 because after flushing and draining (by removing the lower radiator hose) I could only get 5 gals in. If there is some water left I'm not at 50/50 anymore for freeeze protection.
Fleetguard indicated to the parts manager when he was ordering it that all of the antifreezes are compatable, but you have to go to the service intervals of the lowest type you use if mixed. Example if you use the ES Optimax(600,000 miles) but for some reason have to add the green stuff(30,000 miles), then your service interval becomes what the green stuff is.
03-21-2004, 09:46 PM
Uhhh guys I think the 300,000/600,000 mile recomendations are for big rigs that see 100,000 to 200,000 miles per year, not for personal vehicles. At a more reasonable 30k per year for private vehicles that would calculate to adding an extender after 10 years and replacing the coolant after 20 years? I don't think that would be a good idea... :eek:
BTW, Zerex Z-05 is the same HOAT formulation used in late-model DC vehicles and is commonly available at Pep Boys and Autozone, if you want to contine to use OEM-specified coolant. .. can't go wrong there. Certainly nothing wrong with Rotella/Fleetguard/etc. too, but in the real world you won't get any more service out of them than standard HOAT coolant.
03-21-2004, 10:03 PM
I don't know if this helps but the service interval is 2/4 years as well as the mileage. If that is the case, even at 30,000 miles a year you would still get 120,000 miles on that coolant. Less changing, better for the evironment as well. Also Fleetguard has a coolant test kit that will tell you if and when you might need the extender.
FLEETGUARD ES Optimax™ EG Antifreeze/Coolants are Extended Life formulations that
contain Ethylene Glycol base fluids and are designed specifically for use in heavy-duty diesel
engines. ES Optimax™ EG Antifreeze Coolants are fully formulated with Organic Acid Inhibitors,
and provide superior liner pitting and corrosion protection in diesel engines. ES Optimax™
antifreeze/coolants are phosphate, borate, amine, and silicate free, and contain proprietary anti-scale
additives that eliminate the need for deionized water.
FLEETGUARD ES Optimax™ EG Concentrate mixes readily with clean tap water or
demineralized water, while ES Optimax™ EG Premix is formulated with demineralized water and
is ready to use. ES Optimax™ coolants are compatible with conventional antifreeze products and
liquid SCA’s and standard water filters; however, mixing with conventional antifreeze may reduce the
extended life characteristics of the product. ES Optimax™ EG Antifreezes are universal products
highly recommended for use in all heavy-duty diesel engines, and also for use in automobile and
light duty applications.
FLEETGUARD ES Optimax™ EG Antifreeze Coolants meet or exceed the performance
requirements of the following specifications.
TMC RP 338, Cummins CES14603, International B-1, Type III
TMC RP 329, Caterpillar EC-1, Freightliner 48-22880
ASTM D-6210, Detroit Diesel 7SE298, Volvo
ASTM D-4656, MTU Germany, PACCAR
ASTM D-4985, John Deere H24A1, H24C1, MACK
ASTM D-3306, Case New Holland, Waukesha 4-1974D
GM1899, Komatsu ,Mitsubishi
GM1825M ,SAEJ1034, Thermo-King
Color Visual Red Red Red
Specific Gravity 60ºF (15ºC) D1122 1.130 1.080 1.090
Pounds per Gallon, 60ºF (15ºC) -------- 9.43 9.01 9.09
pH (Undiluted) D1287 9.0 8.7 8.7
Reserve Alkalinity (Undiluted) D1121 10.0 5.0 5.0
Freeze Point, (Undiluted) D1177 8ºF (-13ºC) -34ºF (-37ºC). -65ºF (-54ºC)
Boiling Point, (Undiluted) D1120 338ºF (170ºC) 226ºF (108ºC). 230ºF (110ºC).
Water, wt % (Approx.) D1123 2.5 48.0 38.0
SCA Units per gallon -------- 5.0 2.5 2.5
Glassware Corrosion Test D1384 Pass Pass Pass
Aluminum Corrosion Test D4340 Pass Pass Pass
Simulated Service Test D2570 Pass Pass Pass
Aluminum Water Pump Test D2809 Pass Pass Pass
Silicates -------- None None None
2931Elm Hill Pike, Nashville, Tennessee 37214
03-22-2004, 10:09 AM
I use Optimax and don't intend to ever change the coolant again.
One consideration though is having a blown hose or water pump and losing your high priced coolant. Doubt if many of us will see 600k before something happens to lose the coolant.
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